No more SST120's from Merc ?????

[WharfRat]

from Tim Seebold's website:


"We have bought the 2 last engines from Mercury, you better be quick if you want a complete engine" Says Tim Seebold

So email me on seebold@stlmo.com or call me on (636) 349 2316

[Ron Hill]

I don't see a problem...but then again, I seldom see problems...If the "BRAIN TRUST" of OPC would open up STOCK BLOCKS...with Wiseso pistons, an average SST 120 driver could cut the cost of their engines by 75%.....

Right now, as I see it, you have to buy a 122 cubic inch 120 motor from Mercury RACING...I bought a 122 cubic inch Mercury V-6 last winter for the price of hauling it off...

I'm a carb size man and a CC/deck height man...let you do what you want between the carbs and heads...but then again, no one in our family ever ran SST 120.....

From what I hear about the "NEW" 2006 motors, is that they take about 10 seconds to built up pressure before they start, then saound like sewing machines.....So, they drop the starting flag, the starter says, "They're off." and 10 seconds later everyone takes off........hmmm..progress..

[David Mason]

Isn't the Yamaha legal ?

Also, I do think you can get fishing blocks and convert them to raceing for SST120, I don't see the trouble there ? Already being done I thought. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I know of a lot of bass boats with 2.0 and 2.5's on them. I assume this is the same basic block used in racing.

[TabaraRacing12]

As of now you cannot use a regular 2.0L for SST120, you must have a SST120 block. An SST120 block is actually a 2.5 casting with 2.0 Liners put into it. The ports between a 2.0 fishing motor and the 2.0 SST120 block are extremely different. As for my opinion on the motor rules of SST120, well the so called "STOCK" block has to have around 3-4,000 dollars in machine work before you can start putting parts in it. SST120 is not a "STOCK" class by any means. You can easily invest 20,000 "with labor" :eek: in SST120 for 1 "Good" powerhead Steve Tabara

[spn#43]

And now they are talking about downsizing CHAMP to not so STOCK 120 power?????
DON’T LIKE THE IDEA AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Shaun Torrente]

As for my opinion on the motor rules of SST120, well the so called "STOCK" block has to have around 3-5,000 dollars in machine work before you can start putting parts in it. SST120 is not a "STOCK" class by any means. You can easily invest 20,000 :eek: in SST120 for 1 "Good" powerhead Steve Tabara


This is not true at all, if you are spending 3-5000K in machine work something is wrong.... If anything the rules are more restrictive than ever with the addition of the exhaust port template.... I can tell you the only problem with the 120 class is the upkeep on the engine not the "modification" of it.... Because of the rpm that we turn i am having to change pistons every 3 races and rod bolts every race.... Also if you would like i will sell any of my powerheads dressed ready to drop on for 15k since you are investing 20k :rolleyes:

Shaun

[Shaun Torrente]

And now they are talking about downsizing CHAMP to not so STOCK 120 power?????
DON’T LIKE THE IDEA AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

It is obvious the current champ package does not work... we are trying to come up with a positive economically viable solution, and when i say we i mean the drivers... Page do not knock it until we all sit down and discuss as a group in bay city...

See you there!
Shaun

[WharfRat]

well geez Shaun, if you didn't drive so dang hard the pistons would last longer :eek:


LMAO :D

[TabaraRacing12]

I am not spending that and wasnt implying that I was, actually I need a powerhead but no money $$$$ :( ...but what I am saying is that there are people out there that do spend that kind of money in 120's trying to keep up with you Shaun ;) Its great to see the numbers so far in 120's this year, we need some of that excitement about the sport to migrate north. Steve

[Ron Hill]

Without going into names.....but will drop two, J. Christian Bush...And Madman Across the water Greg Foster......Foster has (Anytime he wants it...Sherman-Williams Paints as a sponsor)......Both of these TRUE GREATS OF OUR SPORt believe.......that Champboat/Formula One could have some changes...

Here are suggestions and reasons:

1. The course are layed out in such a way that passing is actually discouraged.....round courses...circle. wide corners....courses are set so driving skill becomes ZERO....

2. REV LIMITED 2.5 are expensive and the motors are so equal...and again, they have some much power that drving skill almost becomes ZERO...Fly them, they blow over...don't fly them, the go about the same speed.

3. 2 Liter motors, no rev limiters, are much like 125 motorcycles...a J. Christina Bush, Michael Seebold, Greg Foster....add others...will stand those mothers on the prop and rev them 2 liters about 9,500 and holy ****, scare the crap out of any true fan... Guido Capelli's DAC with a 2 liter, looks more like a flying space ship...If you ever saw Chris Bush "FLY" his Burgess on the prop a full lap at St. Louis....you'd know the SHOW was in 2 Liter FLYING MACHINES....2.5 were sold as a "CHEAP" replacement for a 2 liter...problem was, they weren't sheap and they didn't last as long as the two liter....CHEAP HELL, they were way more expensive....

Round courses, boring motors.....equal what we have...

The BUSCH GRAND NATIONAL CURCUIT got started as a Saturday "RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG" Race...

I suggest for Formula One, going back to two liter.....and then a "SECOND DIVISION"....Run What You Brung two liter....Allow the top five Run What You Brung to run the Champboat race SUNDAY....

SST 120??? 15 thousand dollar powerhead???? Change the rules to FISHING BLOCKS ONLY....How about limiting SST 120 Motors to a claiming price of $5,000???

I feel better...

[David Mason]

If a person wanted to get into SST120, with the talk of Merc not making anything, what should a newbie do ? Is SST120 going to four stroke or will there still be Two Strokes for sale ?

Just would like some light shed in the matter.

Dave

[WharfRat]

If I remember correctly, they will be going to 2.0 carb motors for that class (PLEASE don't quote me on that) at least that is being discussed, right now things are kinda up in the air, as Shaun said, the drivers are holding discussions on the matter.

[David Mason]

Well Once discusssed if someone like Shaun or someone that was in on the talks, has an idea of which direction APBA is going to go this next season, please drop me a line, or post here.

Dave

david.mason@kellogg.com

[TabaraRacing12]

From what I know about the situation it sounds like they still will make blocks/parts but they just wont sell complete drop on powerheads. Now maybe someone else can confirm this, but from I have been told thats the way it will go. I wouldnt worry about SST120 changing all that much. The numbers are finally going up again and remember with classes like SST60/SST45 omc before they went out of buisness quit making those motors long time ago, how many years has it been since a new motor was made by OMC? I think u can now get new stuff from SeaWay marine but the classes survived many years without ever having new stuff available. I also believe SST60 OMC only made 800 motors ever!, and that class is still surviving. Now considering the possible place of a 4 stroke, why?? 2 stroke motors rock versus a 4 stroke, considering the power they put out versus the weight to power ratio design, I am not saying 4 strokes shouldnt be part of boat motors on fishing boats, but a race boat is not a fishing boat. If you are going to say well the EPA says this..... well I can tell you those engines that are being ran at every nascar race, every F1, IRL, CHAMP race, those babies do not meet any epa standard. You stand in a closed room with one of those for 30 seconds and you are about ready to die... Now lets look at our one class with 4 strokes Super Sport. Not to knock any SuperSport guys I like the idea (sort of ModVP) but the motor doesnt get it done. First time I saw them in Kankakee a few years back I think I took a nap during the race, its not that the racing was bad because it wasn't, its that people need to hear the HP and they need to hear the roar of the engines. Put a 2.5 200 fishing block on it or even 150 block that is a 2 stroke. What makes F1 cars so awesome? The sound they produce is like no other! A champ car when it shifts creates almost like a small sonic boom, that alone is worth your ticket price. If you have never heard a TRUE CHAMP BOAT hit 10,500 RPM's with a 2.0L BP, there isnt any better racing and noise then the old 2.0L's.

[David Mason]

Thanks for the info. I also agree, Two Stroke rock. The noise a Four Storke puts out makes me think of a lawn mower gone bad.

[WharfRat]

David, the minute I know something concrete I'll let everyone know, but until then it's just a guessing game. I've heard alot of specualtion that I'm not EVEN going to get into :rolleyes: All I can say is, everything I've heard so far makes sense from the drivers' standpoint. (& they are thinking about the FANS) :)

[Ray Lumpkin]

Well I see some things never change. APBA and manfactures always oboslete all your equipment. And they wonder why OPC doesnt have any boat racers! I raced SST120 in the 80s. Great class great engine. Ran for 2 years with no engine problems. Then they wanted to go to SST140. Changed all the rules. Obsoleted my 4 powerheads, 3 superspeed master right hand units( they wanted only left units) all my props. I bought all SST140 stuff, first race I smoked a new SST140 power head I just got from Mercury. That was it, I quit. Over the years I raced 15 different classes most of the rules and motors changed . And they wonder why!!!

[TabaraRacing12]

I understand where you are coming from. OPC is in a world of hurt right now. Champ is struggeling with only 14 boats showing up as being scored with only 3-4 maybe at most 5 boats on the lead lap. I raced Sport C then SST-70 for 5+ years and then sold out to go car racing, nobody wanted to step up and race with me in 70's, I finally had it when I had to beg the 60 guys to step up and run, when only 2 others said they would leaving me a field of 3 70's while there were another 5-7 60 boats there, that finally boiled the pot and within a month my stuff was gone. Spent 2 years racing dirt track and realized I loved boat racing to much to just give up on it. I have a 120 boat now, sits in the garage, waiting for a motor to bolt onto my mid, but at the current costs of racing, it will be a while before it gets out of the garage. I could go on and on and list things that arent helping the sport, but it doesnt do any good to complain on here. I think there are many changes that could be made in Champ/SST120/OPC to help out in the rising costs of boat racing but in the end it comes down to trying to save a sport. We need numbers but its hard to get numbers when it costs so much to race competitively in most classes.

[Ray Lumpkin]

I was OPC region 4 chairman for about 5 years. I got an engine freeze voted in by the drivers in some classes. Theses class grew because the drivers knew that their engine was going to be good for 5 years. Not everyone is rich and can buy new stuff every year! What kind of boat do you have? I have a 1990 SST120 engine. I quess its obsolete now. I enjoy just looking at it and remembering. I would like to find a good tunnel for it and take one more ride.

[TabaraRacing12]

I have a Pugh and my brother has 2 older Grand Prix's. Depending on what was done to your 120 it still might be legal, and even if it isnt legal you could run it in F150's. The 120 engine is the exact same except for a new lighter piston available from mercury. Well the rods you have in it might be illegal also, but for the most part the rules havent changed a whole lot over the years, well ok, not as much as the other classes.

[Ray Lumpkin]

How can I tell what size 120 I have. 2.0 or 2.5. I havent been around them for 10 years. Can any one tell me?

[TabaraRacing12]

I asked about it and from what I was told all SST120 motors were 2.5 castings.

[Erick]

What do the local guys that run Champ do????

[Ron Hill]

The 122 inch or 2 liter motors have like 3/8 thick sleeves. The 2.5 steel sleev motors have a sleeve that looks to be about 3/32 of an inch thick....And you can stick your fist in the hole....

What Brain was saying, I think, is that the SST 120 Motor from Mercury is a SLEEVED DOWN S-3000 block.

An S-3000 has 300 HP and the last time I looked at a price tlist they were like $15,000 for a powerhead.....

Considering I just bought two 2.5 steel sleeve blocks for $1,000, I think S-3000 motors have hurt racing...(I have three steel Sleevew 2.5 that I plan to runa Parker on my two MOD VP boats)...I will not have $15,000 in two boats, motors and trailers....They won't be as fast as an S-3000.........but much cheaper!!!!

Forumula 150 doesn't allow the S-3000 block, and I consider Formula 150 about the only class in OPC that has shown signs of growth...

[Ray Lumpkin]

Thanks John. So my 1990 SST 120 engine cant run in F150?

[TabaraRacing12]

Ray, You can run your old 2.0 SST-120 motor in F150. In fact your SST-120 motor can run with any modifications. There are no restrictions are carb venture, exhaust tuner, head volume, and reed block assembley. Here is the link to F150's rules. Also note that you run a lighter weight than Champ and SST120.

http://apba-racing.com/Categories/OPC/Rules/Form150RuleBook2004.pdf


steve tabara
tabara racing

[Ray Lumpkin]

Thanks for the infor Steve. Sounds like I can run something like my old Champ motor with 6 carbs!