Chryslers in OPC...

[brichter]

Looking for info, facts, pictures,stories related to Chryslers in OPC racing, particularly in the SG or SJ classes in the early 70s. I am looking mainly for info related to the service motors without stacks and racing gearcases (the 135 and 150 stuff is pretty well documented). Any info appreciated.

[Roy Hodges]

Chrysler had no motor suitable for "G" it would not be allowed in that class ,anyway, because the motor was a 3 cylinder w/72.39 cu. in. Making it eligible for "H" class. The 4 cylinder had 96.55 cubic inches - it would be eligible for



j class , but with that crummy lower unit gear case ,it's not gonna be competitive . the 3 &4 cylinders used same gear case with different ratios .The 3 cyl had 15-26 ratio -the 4 cyl had 16-25 ratio. in the mid 70's ,the 3 cylinder ratio was changed to 13-26 . I still have a brand new, in the box, 13-26 gearfoot ,if anyone needs to buy a replacement .

[brichter]

Chrysler did build a legal SG motor, a special edition 85. It was a short stroke, short (17") shaft version of the standard 20" 85 horse, 69.81 cubes. See the attached scans for proof of this engine. (It was painted black interestingly.) There is a typo in the specs you will note, stroke in inches should be 2.7, millimeter dimension is correct.
I remember seeing SG class run in region 8 and it fielded a good number of chryslers.

Yes the old 2 piece lowers were crappy but in 72 Chrysler had a 130, there were OMC 125s running in SJ also with a crappy lower....I would bet there were a few Chryslers out there at that time.

[Roy Hodges]

You might think I didn't like Chryslers- ? I did like them , I had a 3 cylinder 70 horse on a pontoon boat . REAL good motor . They just had lousy lower units. (performance wise ).I happen to think, that, back then, if the 130 horse had a merc 150 X S lower , it would have given the 125 & maybe the 135 Mercs a tough way to go in F J & S J classes.

[calvin]

Great info on the Chryslers in opc...tried to open the pics but failed would love to see them.

[brichter]

Great info on the Chryslers in opc...tried to open the pics but failed would love to see them.

I can't open the attachments either for some reason..don't know why.
I just tried to post them as jpegs and that doesn't work either

If you pm me your email I will send the scans that way.

[Bill Gohr]

The only one I knew of was Baker, he held a record with a Viper and a Chrysler, as well, they would come down from Minn with a few boats with Chryslers on them

[brichter]

Yes, Ron kind of spearheaded a big Chrysler revival around '80. We went to a few of the region 8 races at that time. I remember him beating a whole field of Merc 150s in JP with a 135. Randy Pierson had a 4 carb Chrysler with a short tower he ran in Mod 100 that was fast. There was a strong GP class going with the special edition 85s at that time as well.

I found this picture on the Hydrostream registry, I remember this boat from some of the races I went to but can't remember the driver's name. Its an old Scotti with newer cowls....same type my dad put on his 'stream.....I think Simberger was selling them at the time.

[Bill Gohr]

I don't know who that is but at the end of 100 classes there was also Roddy Foreman who ran with Force cowls

[Dan M]

These are Jpegs from above

Dan:D

[Mark75H]

Very good stuff! Details that I did not know! :):):)

[PIP]

Ron Baker told me that with the Chrysler, he could jack it to the moon and it ddnt lose water pressure. He said the motor wasn't all that great as far as being a screamer, but it was purely the fact that you could jack it so high that made it fast. he was spinning a 30 pitch or something like that he told me. he couldn't remember exactly which prop, but he had been working for Chrysler at the time, so it was natural to use the motor he did. i would love to trade my 140 crossflow for one of those old Chryslers. they are just cool by accident. sam baker might chime in here and give a little more insight.

[fredbear624]

check out this factor 135 stacker on ebay #120618067889 comes with a carlson contender 14.5' with a trailer in ok city ok

[brichter]

Ron Baker told me that with the Chrysler, he could jack it to the moon and it ddnt lose water pressure. He said the motor wasn't all that great as far as being a screamer, but it was purely the fact that you could jack it so high that made it fast. he was spinning a 30 pitch or something like that he told me. he couldn't remember exactly which prop, but he had been working for Chrysler at the time, so it was natural to use the motor he did. i would love to trade my 140 crossflow for one of those old Chryslers. they are just cool by accident. sam baker might chime in here and give a little more insight.

I like the Chryslers also but I don't think I'd go that far.

The earliest Chryslers were on the leading edge but they didn't innovate much over the years and fell behind Merc and OMC. I think the racing gearcase they had was a West Bend leftover. Styling stayed pretty much the same for almost two decades and was very dated at the end (first issue US marine addressed).
I could never figure out why the 150 racer was only a 96 ci motor when they had a 99 ci
block...seem they were always in survival mode with their budget.

The engines weren't that reliable either. They often seemed to overheat and stick or just wear out too soon and when you took them apart nothing was straight.....bores and decks all warped. If you cut everything straight and put them back together they were pretty good.

The later one-piece lower they came out with mid 70s had the pickups in the bullet which was good but it was also longer and a little thinner than the mercs so even when it was in the water it could go faster without blowing out.

I remember seeing Ron whup the mercs a few times with his 135 Chrysler against a field of 150s. Ron drove a heck of a race and was a good setup man, you have to give him credit for that.

[Mark75H]

I think the racing gearcase they had was a West Bend leftover.

No, the racing gearcase was designed in 1967 by Jack Oxley and Bob Kies well after the sale to Chrysler (January 1, 1965). In 1965 they were still working for Bob McCullough.



I could never figure out why the 150 racer was only a 96 ci motor when they had a 99 ci block

I've often wandered about that too. Maybe they felt it was better to leave a little more meat in the block to improve reliability.

[Sam Baker]

John Tiger told me about this post...can't believe I didn't see it sooner.

The trick thing about the Chrysler was that it had the water intakes on the side of the bullet which allowed you to run it a few inches higher than a Mercury or OMC - motors that had the water intakes in the traditional location on the gearcase.

My Dad had his 135 Chrysler on a HydroStream Viper and when that thing was on, it would absolutely destroy the competition. He went to the Kaukauna, WI kilos with it and actually went faster than the world record, but because the U.S. record was faster (had to pay a fee to make your record a "World" record and the guy with the US record at the time didn't pay the fee), he didn't get credit for breaking either record. Anyway, the boat would run low to mid 80s all day long - no low water pickup nosecones, etc.

He worked for Chrysler at the time and took some heat for running a non-Chrysler boat so the company flew him to Plano, TX where they made the Chrysler brand boats and he built a 16' Chrysler boat to race in J Production. He redesigned the bottom...it was essentially a HydroStream bottom. The boat looked like a bathtub going down the course and it didn't turn for $hit...it hooked pad...but it was fast! My brother Jeff won High Points in Region 8 (Twin Cities Power Boat Association) in that Chrysler Boat. To this day, the only Chrysler boat I've ever known that was raced.

The picture earlier in the thread is of my brother's Vandal with an 85 HP Chrysler Striper that he ran in VP1300 and Mike O'Connor in his "Goat Boat." He ran that in what was essentially Mod100. He was also very fast and once that boat was dialed in, it really ran strong.

We were literally laughed at as we pulled those Chryslers into the pits at many races...they called my Dad crazy. They didn't laugh for long usually.

Here's a photo of him running the Viper through the Kaukauna Kilo:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1101/4723083853_ba760c4617.jpg

[Bill Gohr]

Sam, What was the pic he had above his desk that said it was for a record of some sort?

I'll never forget it was like in 79' I was working for Ralph and I went to Oregon IL to help out some of our customers. They showed up with a couple Chrysler boats and we were all looking at them kinda cross eyed.

[Sam Baker]

That was the U.I.M. plaque for setting the 2 hour marathon World Record when he drove for Tom Ireland. That was in Family E. Viper with a 65HP Evinrude Triumph. I think the average was 51 MPH or so.

[brichter]

Thanks for the info Sam!

I remember the first TCPBA race I went to in Lake City where the Chryslers ran. There were 3 or 4 Chrysler boats in Mod 100 and they all ran respectably. I remember Mike O'Connor, Randy Pierson and I believe Dave Quinzon was running one as well.
My Dad ran an OMC but it was good to see 3 different brands out there at one time. Something that I hadn't seen for a while before that.

[Bill Gohr]

Thanks for the info Sam!

I remember the first TCPBA race I went to in Lake City where the Chryslers ran. There were 3 or 4 Chrysler boats in Mod 100 and they all ran respectably. I remember Mike O'Connor, Randy Pierson and I believe Dave Quinzon was running one as well.
My Dad ran an OMC but it was good to see 3 different brands out there at one time. Something that I hadn't seen for a while before that.


Roddy Foreman ran 100 till the end at Kankakee with the "Force" motors, they came like the last 2 or 3 years in a row

[brichter]

I found this one of Roddy Foreman at Kankakee, unfortunately it is a poor quality picture.
I think the motor is a 5 cylinder 150; a MOD 110 class setup.

[kevin beaulier]

here is a shot of Roddy's formula 100 Kaos boat. Tracy Hawkins used this same hull in sst 120 and even won the nationals with it.

[brichter]

Didn't really happen but do you think Chrysler had that idea in mind?
If not they went to a lot of effort on their mid 70s 49.9 Ci 65 horse offering.
Dual carbs, powerflow gearcase, big square exhaust ports, exhaust tuning, high ring pressure back pistons with .070 top ring etc. I don't know for sure but I think they went the wrong way with the goofy piston port intake design.
What do you think????

[mercmack]

I thought this would have been a great eng for short courses..in R or For E class..
I started to make the eng..the tower, I was makeing it at the Machine shop class with Yard bird at Napa Jr..built the complete powerhead at home and was going to use a chrysler racing unit on the bottom end.....but as time went on and with wife passing away..I sold the powerhead to some customer while working at D and R marine in Rodeo, Ca.. sold or traded the gearcase to Yard Bird...
still would like to try one on a sport E boat with a good Ron Hill cleaver..Would be a great engine say at Marysville..:):):)

[wolfgang]

I thought this would have been a great eng for short courses..in R or For E class..
I started to make the eng..the tower, I was makeing it at the Machine shop class with Yard bird at Napa Jr..built the complete powerhead at home and was going to use a chrysler racing unit on the bottom end.....but as time went on and with wife passing away..I sold the powerhead to some customer while working at D and R marine in Rodeo, Ca.. sold or traded the gearcase to Yard Bird...
still would like to try one on a sport E boat with a good Ron Hill cleaver..Would be a great engine say at Marysville..:):):)
Hi Dwayne - very impressive effort. When was this done? Are there any photos of the innards of the tower/tuners? At some stage that engine must have been dynoed - any numbers? Best,Wolfgang

[brichter]

I will take some pics of the tower and tuner when I take it apart....I will be taking 5 inches out of it.

This motor will be fitted with a pair of TC3As, Balanced, flex flywheel, Chrysler quicky, power trim, along with port and CR mods...going to match the piston ports to the block. I have two blocks so I can experiment.

[wolfgang]

Wow Bill, sounds like a great project. Pse show us some photos as you go along. I want to fit a flex flywheel to a Force4, made up of a billet aluminium ring and utilizing the original hub and magnets. Any recommendations regarding the flexplate material??? rgds, W

[wolfgang]

Bill, when I shortened my Chrysler 4 cyl long tower, I found out that I only had to cut 4.5 inches, to retain 2 mm gap above the driveshaft stub (where it sits in the crank), for the racing lu. Do you have a test wheel for the Chrysler racing lu? If so, would you be kind enough to send me the main dimensions, so I could get one made up??
rgds, W

[wolfgang]

Bill, when I shortened my Chrysler 4 cyl long tower, I found out that I only had to cut 4.5 inches, to retain 2 mm gap above the driveshaft stub (where it sits in the crank), for the racing lu. Do you have a test wheel for the Chrysler racing lu? If so, would you be kind enough to send me the main dimensions, so I could get one made up??
rgds, W
Message came out garbled - I was referring to the dimensions of a Chrysler 4 cyl test wheel. rgds, W

[mercmack]

never did complete the 65 eng..that was about the time the first wife was really sick..before she passed away..and the old brain wasn't into the eng stuff..and like i said in a earlier post..Sold the powerhead to a customer at work that needed one really bad..the tower and gearcase i gave to Ron or sold it to him..can't really remember..Its been at least 15 years or so ago..
Wolfgang did you get the e-mails with Roys big boat that he just got..Its kind of great..:D:D

[brichter]

Wow Bill, sounds like a great project. Pse show us some photos as you go along. I want to fit a flex flywheel to a Force4, made up of a billet aluminium ring and utilizing the original hub and magnets. Any recommendations regarding the flexplate material??? rgds, W

Material for the flexplate is going to be full hard, spring steel, I am just going to use a merc in-line service flywheel flex plate. Very common, any salvage barn is going to have stacks of them.

[wolfgang]

Many thanks Bill. What`s the diameter of these? Unfortunately we do not have salvage yards for boat engines here, hence before I order one or two, I`d better make sure to find something which will fit. The holes can be lasered or waterjetted (presumably better as this is a cold process).

[wolfgang]

Wow Bill, sounds like a great project. Pse show us some photos as you go along. I want to fit a flex flywheel to a Force4, made up of a billet aluminium ring and utilizing the original hub and magnets. Any recommendations regarding the flexplate material??? rgds, W
Just a note: there are some very interesting spreadsheets on outboardparts.com, Chrysler/Force section, showing whether con rods were top or bottom guided, no. of splines in crank bottoms, where the latest Force motors used Merc parts or even complete Merc engines, the bore variations, etc. Any help with testwheel dimensions?

[SUPER STRANGLER]

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv52/powerboatracing1970s/seaeagleIII.jpg
My father racing SEA EAGLE III at Port Macquarie NSW Australia in 1975. The boat was powered by a Chrysler 150HP Stacker engine at the time.

[wolfgang]

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv52/powerboatracing1970s/seaeagleIII.jpg
My father racing SEA EAGLE III at Port Macquarie NSW Australia in 1975. The boat was powered by a Chrysler 150HP Stacker engine at the time.
pity the photo doesn`t come with that great sound emanating from the two stacks!

[brichter]

Lends itself well to sectioning because it is very straight. I took 5 inches out of this one because it is easy, I could have taken more out of it but it would have required more effort tinkering around with the swivel and the tuner.

I have the adapter plate made for the Chrysler race unit. Final product will be a prototype "what if Chrysler built a MOD 50?".

[PIP]

Assuming they weighed the motors fully dressed, anybody else notice how much lighter the Chrysler 49ci is than its competition in its day, same thing with the 135-150 stacker?

They are like 50 pounds or maybe more less in weight than the comparable merc or omc.

Whats up with that?

Ronny

[Mark75H]

Yes, chryslers were always known for being light. It was one of the pleasure motor selling points.

[Lars Strom]

Well..some Chrysler models was also known for water in the lower unit..!!..:p

[kevin beaulier]

This is Johnny Johnson in a boat built by himself here in Houston. Photo was taken in about 1972 at one of the local races.

[brichter]

This is Johnny Johnson in a boat built by himself here in Houston. Photo was taken in about 1972 at one of the local races.
Nice picture Kevin, thanks! How did Johnny Johnson do with that Chrysler?

[brichter]

These are Jpegs from above

Dan:D

I rescanned the brochure pages from the earlier post for better resolution, and to get the full page.