The A -250cc Record

[russhill]

Jeff Connant posted in Facebook item, that a new 250cc record of 112MPH was set. It took my breath away. In 1940 A's were running about 37-39 MPH. After the War (the big one) in about '47 or '48, a 50 MPH record was set. By '49, I was running about 50 in my A Hydro, and winning races.

I decided at about age 15 that a good speed for an A was the calendar year. In about '52, a 53 MPH record was set. In about '54, Leeky Jack (Jack Leek) set a 61 MPH record. He was a few years ahead of schedule.

I've lost track of the A-250 speed vs. calendar year until I saw this one. 112 in '11.

What's happened?

•In about '52 the displacement was raised from 14 to 15 ci.

•Quicksilver gear cases came into being.

•Loopers entered the scene.

•Megaphone horns, then bounce pipes (the megaphones helped the cross-flows but then they really helped the loopers).

•Boats were being built with lower frontal areas, and lower weights (like none).

•Fuels were becoming more exotic.

•Propellers made some terrific advancements

•And I don’t know what the hell else has happened, but like I always say, “If you’re not pushing the state-of-the-art, you aren’t really racing.“

My congratulations go to the guy who set the new record a few years ahead of my schedule.

[Jeff Lytle]

Gonads got bigger! :D

[David Weaver]

I recall that a Konig FA held the record for a very long time around 97 mph. In the early 1990's, Sean McKean bumped the APBA record to 107 mph with a Yamato.

My guess is that this speed could be increased further in the near future.

Fewer drivers attempt to set new kilo records these days, proboably due to the risk and few available sites. Julian did a great job keeping his boat on the water.

[Tim Small]

What is amazing is that Julian went 112mph with a 11:15 competition Rossi lower unit. No surfacing unit or special boat. Their boats are light years ahead of ours. We need to get back to work here in the US. We heard for years that their boats were only good in rough water with tight turns. Now we know they are good in smooth water, rough water, tight turns, wide turns, and kilo runs. Time marches on.

[Composite Specialties]

What is amazing is that Julian went 112mph with a 11:15 competition Rossi lower unit. No surfacing unit or special boat. Their boats are light years ahead of ours. We need to get back to work here in the US. We heard for years that their boats were only good in rough water with tight turns. Now we know they are good in smooth water, rough water, tight turns, wide turns, and kilo runs. Time marches on.

The reason that no one here in the USA wants to "get back to work" on boat designs is because everyone here is a critic! At any given Title Series race, there are at least 5 boat experts walking around talking crap about all the boats, designs and the builders. Then you have engine dealers that claim to be boat experts that spout off their opinions and people seem to listen..... go figure. There have been a small handful that actually tried to develop Euro designs from scratch, without the luxury of having one to copy first hand. It takes an enormous amount of money and time to develop these boats from scratch, test them, redevelop, etc....

So you tell me, why would anyone want to put any time, money and effort into getting back to work to develop boats for PRO racing only to be confronted with this crap at every race. Support and encouragement goes along way with anything in life... if you want people to devote their time and money into development of racing boat designs, then teach people to stop trashing the boat builders and their designs and show some support for the very few in the country that are left to actually build racing boats.

[AZOutlaw]

<embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="http://www.cumbrialive.tv/Streaming/Player/player-4-5.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars="file=http://blip.tv/file/get/MartinCampbell-JulianCodling112MphOnConiston564.f4v&autostart=false&repeat=always&controlbarsize=20&abouttext=Cumbria Live Player 3.1&aboutlink=http://www.CumbriaLive.tv&quality=true&backcolor=000000&frontcolor=999999&lightcolor=666666&screencolor=000000&skin=http://www.CumbriaLive.tv/Streaming/Player/Modieus-CLP-Pics.swf&playlist=none" height="415" width="480"></embed> <div style="font-size:0.9em;">
<a href="http://vodpod.com/watch/4918939-julians-world-record-breaking-run-during-the-2010-coniston-records-week">Julians World Record Breaking run during the 2010 Coniston Records Week</a>
- Watch more <a href="http://vodpod.com">Videos</a> at Vodpod.</div>

JC

[Gene East]

Gonads got bigger! :D


After watching the video, can we say, "Gonads got gigantic"!

[David Weaver]

The reason that no one here in the USA wants to "get back to work" on boat designs is because everyone here is a critic! At any given Title Series race, there are at least 5 boat experts walking around talking crap about all the boats, designs and the builders. Then you have engine dealers that claim to be boat experts that spout off their opinions and people seem to listen..... go figure. There have been a small handful that actually tried to develop Euro designs from scratch, without the luxury of having one to copy first hand. It takes an enormous amount of money and time to develop these boats from scratch, test them, redevelop, etc....

So you tell me, why would anyone want to put any time, money and effort into getting back to work to develop boats for PRO racing only to be confronted with this crap at every race. Support and encouragement goes along way with anything in life... if you want people to devote their time and money into development of racing boat designs, then teach people to stop trashing the boat builders and their designs and show some support for the very few in the country that are left to actually build racing boats.


I know I am hard of hearing and have selective hearing as well. I have not heard criticism of anyone's boats with the excpetion of the boat that came apart at the Worlds this October. Marc's boats and those of others have PRO hydroplane racing headed in a good direction in my opinion. We are going to be able to race on more courses and the safety keeps increasing. Results speak for themselves! MJR boats won 250cc and 350cc hydro at the Nationals. What could matter more??

[Rex Hall Jr.]

Marc

You say it is hard to try to design a Euro boat without having one to copy, but I sent you complete drawings and dimensions for a Moestes 250/350 hydro. If you cannot build one to blueprints without adding something extra that you think might work, that may be why it costs so much to develop new boats. The Euro boat works for ALL racing, jetty starts, clock starts, short course, long course, etc. The Revolution boat that came apart at the World Championships was built off the same drawings that I sent you, and the boat ran very good. The problem was the boat was not assembled very well and the top separated from the bottom. Giuseppe Rossi drove the boat and said it ran and turned just like his Moestes hydro. So we can make them without having a boat here to copy. Chris Hellsten has shown that he can win in 250 and 350 on any Title Series course with a Euro boat. All I am saying is the European drivers completely dominate us when they run against American designed boats, and in most cases, they will lap us in 8 laps. We need to wake up and get on the band wagon if we are to compete at the highest levels of Pro racing. American drivers are just as good, and can be just as fast with the same equipment.

Rex Hall

[Mark75H]

Rex, aren't some of their designs illegal under APBA 60% tunnel hull rules?

[Composite Specialties]

Marc

You say it is hard to try to design a Euro boat without having one to copy, but I sent you complete drawings and dimensions for a Moestes 250/350 hydro. If you cannot build one to blueprints without adding something extra that you think might work, that may be why it costs so much to develop new boats. The Euro boat works for ALL racing, jetty starts, clock starts, short course, long course, etc. The Revolution boat that came apart at the World Championships was built off the same drawings that I sent you, and the boat ran very good. The problem was the boat was not assembled very well and the top separated from the bottom. Giuseppe Rossi drove the boat and said it ran and turned just like his Moestes hydro. So we can make them without having a boat here to copy. Chris Hellsten has shown that he can win in 250 and 350 on any Title Series course with a Euro boat. All I am saying is the European drivers completely dominate us when they run against American designed boats, and in most cases, they will lap us in 8 laps. We need to wake up and get on the band wagon if we are to compete at the highest levels of Pro racing. American drivers are just as good, and can be just as fast with the same equipment.

Rex Hall

Rex, Yes I can build a boat from prints.... I was the only designer in boat racing to sell CAD generated plans all over the world but I could not use the print you sent to me because they were too old from the Mostis they were taken off of. Also, those dimensions were missing quite a bit of information as well, even after you plug all the dimensions in CAD. It is not as simple as taking dimensions and making a boat that works.....That concept does not work when you actually have formulas for making these boats that require much more dimensioning that was on a print that was passed around by yourself.

I have had lengthly chats with Trombetta, Rossi and others from europe that have in-depth knowledge about these boats. Copying the prints that you passed around would not be a wise move to design and build a euro style boat from. The Betta boat is quite diffferent than the Mostis in many areas, if you know what you are looking for. The TEC boat would be the closest to the Mostis but still different than the Betta boat.

The cost is the time that it takes to develop a successful model, build the master plug, make the molds off the master plug and then build the composite boat. That is all money that is not recovered from selling boats until you sell many, many boats from those molds.

I think you need to actually read what I posted..... I was making the point that critics that have no clue about how these euro boats work or how to build them should keep their opinions to themselves and allow people to try to make successful products. With critics out there bashing any and every attempt being made for USA Euro style boats being developed, why would any boat builder want to make any boats at all?

Point being Rex that everyone needs to encourage the building and designing of these boats and not expand upon the failures of the people trying...........

[Rex Hall Jr.]

Marc

I applaude your efforts on all of your boat designs, you have had some very good competition designs. I knew you were trying to get into the Euro boats and that is why I tried to help you with the boat plans. These plans may be from an older Moestes, but Rossi said they were from the best running boat in Europe. He bought the boat for himself after seeing it run and win 2 consecutive 250 Championships. He also said the Revolution boat ran as good as his new Moestes, so it can't be that far off. I was sad to hear that you are not going to build any more boats as we need builders here. You can see by the pattern being set, that every Euro boat coming over here that is for sale, gets sold.

Rex

[Composite Specialties]

Marc

I applaude your efforts on all of your boat designs, you have had some very good competition designs. I knew you were trying to get into the Euro boats and that is why I tried to help you with the boat plans. These plans may be from an older Moestes, but Rossi said they were from the best running boat in Europe. He bought the boat for himself after seeing it run and win 2 consecutive 250 Championships. He also said the Revolution boat ran as good as his new Moestes, so it can't be that far off. I was sad to hear that you are not going to build any more boats as we need builders here. You can see by the pattern being set, that every Euro boat coming over here that is for sale, gets sold.

Rex

Thanks Rex. I just know from talking with Trombetta and knowing what he changed from the original Mostis design that the plans were off a bit. Anyway, I am concentrating on the new all Composite Capsule boat that I am making the plug for right now so there is more to come from Composite Specialties in 2011......

[53w]

russhill,
There is another neat alky B kilo home movie that goes really in depth on the engine, boat, prop and setup used. I think it is from the late 1960's 100 mph B anzanti.
I watch a VHS copy of it once it was pretty cool stuff and well done for its time. I would think that someone on here has a copy of it and can add more info on who and when it was done.

53w

[smittythewelder]

I haven't been around this in a very long time, but looking at Outlaw's video of the kilo run, the boat looks to ride quite nose-high. In the '70s the idea seemed to be that a nose-high attitude "pushed" a lot of air, and that to really go fast you wanted the boat closer to level with the water. Nose-high and rocking a lot, thereby spilling the excess air, seemed to be a way to get through rough water; the Jones inboards of the early '70s all rode that way.

Do the Euro PRO boats all ride high and loose like the one in the video? Or is that characteristic of any four point outboard?

[F-12]

Didn't see anything 'loose' about his run. As far off the water as he was, it still looked stable.................Cessna should make something as stable.........Congrats Julian.

[David Weaver]

Do the Euro PRO boats all ride high and loose like the one in the video?

Simply said, generally yes. They can pack a ton of air under the bottom, thus they float over rough water that a typical US PRO boat would struggle with. Somewhere on this site, Ralph Donald posted a good photo of Steve Litzell at speed in a 700cc Danash (SP) at Konig's test canal. The water is glass and the boat is way off the water at a worrisone angle.

The Mostes that I ran for a year ran faster and faster as the water conditions "worsened" at the 2008 Worlds in Lake Alfred.

[Rotary John]

Great vidio. I did notice a pair of extremely fast ducks. From the camara angle it appears the ducks were faster than the boat.

[milkdud]

Wow. that thing was floating. Not much in the water but the prop and the right rear of the boat. On the return run the left rear of the boat is dancing mostly above the water.

[smittythewelder]

Charlie, maybe my use of the highly technical :confused:term, "loose," is out of date or differently used in other parts of the country. By "loose" I meant is looked to me that the boat runs with a lot of air under it, not that it was on the edge of disaster or out of control or anything like that. The old cabover hydros of the late Fifties/early Sixties that Ron Hill remembers fondly as safe boats that would handle rough water all rode nose high and sometimes fairly loose. The Sid-Crafts that took over from the cabovers never looked so nose-high. If Rex Hall is still reading this, I understand he had an alky boat or two built by Bob Rhoades out here. They rode quite flat to the water . . . and had their share of records and wins. I once heard Ron Anderson, after he had started building boats, say that Rhoades' boats had shown him how a boat should ride. Ron's flat-riding boats also set records, including one by Ron himself when he went 97mph with an A Konig.

To go 113mph with a 250ccH makes an unmistakable statement that the men who built the boat, motor, and prop knew what they were doing, as did the man who did the set-up and drove it, I didn't mean any criticism whatever, and was just remarking on how things have changed in 35 years.

[F-12]

The term 'loose' from back in the day always meant flighty and hard to control. Today the terms have been added to to include 'free of water contact' which is an understatement in this case. That boat looked comfortible and very stable.