It seems to me that...Races Are Too Long

[Ron Hill]

The truth is, boat racing isn't growing. In fact the numbers are going down, down and down.

What are the reasons that YOU see? What do you think might help?

My wife and I have been remoldeling a 1927 house since September. The neighbors came in and on a vacant lot built a house in three months. The old house had everything wrong with it. What we should have done is "SCRAPED" the old house and built a new one, but we didn't.

I see a parallel to the OLD HOUSE/NEW HOUSE and BOAT RACING AND CHANGE.....

I went to a boat race and worked the flags for FLIGHT ONE...I worked from 10 to 1:30, that was 1/4 of the race...After a 7 and a half hour race day.....(My kids called me and told me to come home for Father's Day)....It wasn't hard to head for home, but not because my kids called me.


I think STEP ONE: If you have a two day race, each day only gets HALF POINTS.

We are going to Chowchilla.....we have a new boat, four new engines, several new props....we have had NO TEST TIME....As Chad has just finished school...and where do you test a CAPSULED BOAT??????? So, we'll go to Chowchilla and race ALL DAY with half#$sed set ups, we'll be luck if we don't wreck the boat......Only to come back on Sunday and do the same thing....

Seems to me, I'd rather go to Chowchilla and test all day, Saturday.....at a leisure pace and be ready to race Sunday.....If the CLUB NEEDS MONEY, and I know they do....Charge a FLAT FEE for the weekend.

Figure the cost of the race, divide by the numbers of drivers, add 20 percent for the clud and charge EVER DRIVER and EQUAL AMOUNT or EVERY FAMILY...

Step three: (Step two was FLAT FEES)....Combine classes to have 12 boats in every start.

Step Four: Throw the clock away! RUN MODIFIED lEmANS STARTS. SlOWER CLASSES RUN MORE LAPS ON SHORTER COURSE...

Step Five: Pass an APBA RULE, that any race that runs longer than 5 hours, NO POINTS WILL BE AWARDED.......

[Master Oil Racing Team]

In the early 70's we alky racers were having a problem. NOA was floundering, AOF just started and APBA had some crossovers from the south, but most of their races were north, east and west. We had a meeting at Gravois Mills, MO. at an AOF race to decide on which direction to go. At that meeting Marshall Grant stated that in order to please the public, you have to get their attention, hold it and you can only hold them for three hours. When Johnny Cash and his band were on top, no band in the world could touch them. So you have to listen to what Marshall says.

Out of that my Dad contacted Marshall for a plan to put on short exciting races to give the public their money's worth and leave them wanting more. That was how the invitational races at Diamondhead on Lake Catherine near Hot Springs came about.

Some good ideas were hatched, but after the death of Jerry Waldman in the first event. And a serious accident in the second, the plan failed. Some of the things that you mention though Ron were implemented there.

1. The total program was supposed to last three hours (maybe slightly longer)

2. One heat final so the spectators knows who the winner is. Unless they were a fan of racing, they normally don't know the point system, and if there are some disqualifications, they can get confused. Not everybody reads the program.

3. All day Saturday to test. You only have one shot so you work on your setups as much as you want.

With a lot of lakes closed down, this testing is primary in helping the drivers work out their setups, but also get used to the course, which is a safety factor.

Another thing we did was open the show with some of the faster classes. The classic lineup when I started, and pretty much stayed the same throughout my racing career was to start with the slowest classes and end with the fastest. The idea was to keep the public there to the end. We figured that was the wrong way for a couple of reasons. Blow them away with some really high speeds and it gets the attention of the spectators. Those classes that are really fast usually don't even have qualifying heats (this stuff applied to the old days when there were still a number of 500's and 700's running), but the ones that are there put on a good show. The slower classes have more competitors and for that reason the spectators see some really good racing. Next, the safety factor, and the will to win. For the guys that have run mulitiple classes, how many times have you been wading in water, under blazing hot sun, carrying boats in and out of the water, racing, fighting mechanical problems, butterflys,then when you are completely worn out have to crawl into the cockpit for two heats of 700cc hydro or 1100cc runabout. There were many times I couldn't even squeeze the throttle closed coming out of a turn. I had to push it with my left arm then clamp my fingers around it.

Then publicity. In Texas we had driver profiles and photos for the media. When we went to Arkansas, we had Miss Arkansas and Miss Hot Springs out for a photo shoot. A newscamera guy rode in Jerry Waldman's 700 hydro. (unbelievable footage) The main newspaper was contacted and did stories prior to a following the event. Jerry and I did a live TV interview in Little Rock.

It also coincided with a big sale of waterfront property on Lake Catherine. That was the same format as the 1969 Golden Shores Winternationals.

Presentation is also important. A professional appearance and team uniforms appeal to the crowd. Drivers oftentimes pay a lot of attention to the boats motors and trailers, but it ends there. Spectators are used to stuff like NASCAR where you can tell who belongs on what team.

Then we had the flag thing going that started at DePue. Many drivers were flying their state flags in the pits. This brought a lot of color. Some of the boat letters didn't make sense, and drivers from several states race under the same letter. Flags told which state a driver was from. Spectators may not know, but they could see that they were different.

Debbie's calling. These are just some ideas to bang around.

[B VALACHOVIC]

First thing is the general public (spectators). When someone goes to a big time for example Drag Racing event, they can go into the pits and see the drivers, get their autograph, see all the equipment and be right there during the race when the crew tears down the big fuel Hemi (feel a part of it). Thats where the Interest is and the Future Drivers and Sponsors come from. APBA much in general has closed the pits to this,at least at big events. Change the pit structure and let the public in and you might get someone interested in this sport, including new Drivers and Sponsors. If it can be done at the Drags they certainly can do it at the boat races. Without the public being interested there will never be the big name sponsors on the boats of any consequence ever again. Bob Valachovic

[Ron Hill]

99 per cent of the races, NO ONE CARES unless you have family racing.....I think we kid ourselves into thinking we are a spectator sport.... We are hobbiest...and there is nothing wrong with being a hobbiest...but we must plan to pay our own way.

When my kid ran J, that was the most important race of the day...when he ran A that was the most important race of the day....we can't expect others to pay for OUR SPORT, we must pay for our own SPORT...Family, friend, and fun....


Jimbo, Ted May, Ernie Dawe and me, raced hundreds of time for nothing but trophies....no spectators...just family, but we loved winning in front of out families...

I mean, we ain't the OC, or 90211...we're just boat racing...and I love it and I'm willing to pay my fair share to have boat racing...

The lost of Jerry Waldman to kneeldown racing was bigger than the loss of Jim Hauenstein to tunnel boat racing...Both were HUGE!!!

The Blue Water Casino 300 Enduro is going to be an event....someone will win, but the rest will have a good time!!!

Racing should be a good time!!!

[B VALACHOVIC]

Friends, Family ,good time I agree with. I have raced worked sites and sponsored boats, Spectators and sponsors are there it is just how everything is marketed to bring them in and get them interested ,not shoo them away. When we were at the Allison 50th we had people come to us and ask when the race was starting and where it was going to be, quite a few.I think people actually like boat racing, it's just not around a lot and not marketed well. Bob

[Rocket]

#1 I have to agree on the "Marketing"! When a Boat race is marketed right,,, there is almost always a big turn out! ( IHBA/SDBA in Marble Falls Tx had over 56,000 spectators last year).

#2 Also, Diversity (sp) if there is other stuff going on for the kids, ladies or just the guys like,,, Bikini Contest's, RC race's, "Show & Shine's", Car or Motorcycle shows,, Free t-shirt give aways (Our anouncer will make the kids find a driver and get an autograph to win a T-shirt or something! It get's the fans involved), "Ride of your life" (this is where you raffle off a ride in a race boat!). But just something differant to break up the day!!!

#3 Announcer's! I think it's very important that the announcer gets the fans involved! Explains over and over again what's going on (like in Brackets, when they see a boat loose,, but he really wins,,they need to explain why!).

#4 And YES OPEN PIT"S!!!!!

[Miss BK]

Rocket is right on about #3. The BEST races I've seen are the races where the PA system can be heard everywhere, and the crowd can see the full course. This will only work if the announcer is animated and well informed about the action ...and builds excitment and FUN. Getting the crowd to laugh is HUGE. We have to be convinced this is something we can't live without.

This is the area where SuperSport has a huge advantage over EVERYONE else. During the SuperSPort races, the crowd should be blasted with Rock and Roll music -- Imagine watching four boats enter the turn with ZZ Top blaring away - the crowd would not even realize they aren't listening to high horsepower engines.

But silence is a crowd killer. You'll put the fans right to sleep.

There were 30,000 people watching our local air show yesterday. Airplanes doing loops and not even racing. Nobody cared that the engines weren't roaring like a jet fighter -- because the fast beat Rock and Roll music kept them in-tune and excited. Over the sounds of the music, the announcer was also keeping everyone informed of WHO was in the cockpit and where he was from, where he learned to fly -etc. Doing this, he personalized the show so fans could relate to the pilots. He kept all eyes glued to the sky.

And everything was high class. The trash can near us was emptiedTHREE TIMES while we sat there. It never even got half full before it was dumped. They know that nobody wants to sit near stinky trash in the heat. The porta potties had portable hand washers next to them - and they never ran out of soap.

But the key to keeping powerboat racing alive, as a whole, is that it HAS to be a "Cool" thing to do. The teams have to look special and HIGH class - Top notch. No t-shirts. Keep it "cool". Prestige is COOL. Fans want to see guys in pressed uniforms and clean, sparkling pit areas. Spit-shined boats with awesome paint like they've never seen before. Anything to make them go "Ahhhhh......".

Don't forget the kids! My kids love "Screamin' Eagle" - they relate to the Eagle painted on the nose of Wyatt Nelson's DAC. Kevin Duby once had kids put their hands in paint and place a "handprint" right on his deck..(small fee went to charity) That boat had a hundred multi-colored handprints on it by the time he raced - it was beautiful -- and everytime he went past us, my kids screamed, "I SAW MY HAND!!!!"

Fabulous idea, Kevin! You have no idea the impact you made on those kids just by letting them "be a part" of the boat races like this.

The sponsors must be massaged as well - they have to feel that they are a part of something classier than average. Something beyond a hobby. Something that the rest of the fans look to achieve someday. They want to feel "Special". If they go home and talk about how much fun they had at the races, then you know they'll be back next year. They can't LIVE without it.

Even today, when I see my old friends who I raced with back in the 80s - we talk mostly about the side-line fun we had. The parties, the calcutta, the practical jokes played on each other, the "dippin" we did with rental cars, the jokes, the stories told.... We talk about all the FUN we had. And boy,was it FUN! Often, we dont even remember who won that event that year.

But we remember those things that made racing fun and something we couldn't live without.


I watched how the Offshore category energized the sponsors several years ago. Those sponsors were put on a pedestal --- every weekend they were treated to exclusive parties, black tie awards ceremonies etc. Even racers themselves want to be seen as somebody "special" who deserves recognition.

The press needs to be treated this same way. I watched how Garbrecht was keen on special treatment to magazine publishers and TV producers. He went right to the top and made sure they were taken care of - mailed colorful press packets ahead of the season and greeted them as VIPs at the pit entrances -- and it paid off. He called them personally. The publishers really liked that attention. He even included the media in his year-end awards ceremony and recognized them in front of the entire audience - every year without fail. That was just one of several brilliant ideas - he knew they needed to feel special, and his reward was 8-10 articles about his sport every year in nearly all of the major publications.

Those magazine articles were then used by the race teams to keep financial relationships with their sponsors.

Unfortunately, in most cases, staying on top of public corporate relationships and advanced marketing seems to be the last on the list of priorities. I've seen teams that feel their needs should be taken care of above all else. Instead of cooperating, and sewing the patches on in the right places (as the title sponsors expect them to be) and being thankful they HAD a title sponsor, some pit crews and drivers (mainly in the Unlimited category) instead complained about having to adere to these sponsor patch requirements - some actually refused and called GG the "Patch Nazi". Then became even more angry when the team was issued a fine. I had to wonder, would they prefer an annoyed sponsor? What if they left and chose to sponsor some other sport --- where the patches were worn AS contracted?

And it is that kind of resisitance that keeps boat racing from getting ahead.


Whew! That's a lot of typing. but those are just a few of my observations...There are quite a few things I see that would spark great interest -- bringing back the Calcutta is one!
But I better stop for now.......

[B VALACHOVIC]

The boats and equipment (safety) etc today are really good. Not everyone will like this. Run Spec engines (SEALED and no you cannot take them apart). And i do Not mean the props or any other equipment that your Team has including the boat, just the engines,(powerheads). And if someone wants to tear yourTeam's spec engine down, no problem. They must purchase it for as much as a new assembly would cost the Team being torn down. Also, place this on the Manufacturer of the engines,that in a event that the engines are discontinued for any reason and they wish to continue to participate in the sale of engines to the Race Teams ,the manufacturer of these engines,(powerheads) must for a nominal fee(if any) replace the engines, (powerheads) and any updated components to make a complete engine to continue to be a supplier to the race teams. Bob

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

Everyone here so far is very sensitive to what works and what doesn't work. This marine motor sport is now failing at an accellerated rate due to "introversion" within the sport itself, where it is eating itself for the gain or fewer and fewer still.

When I was a little kid, my parents like thousands of others went to the weekend boat races because it was a happening spectator sport. It sounded good, felt good, looked great and the sponsors and racers representatives made it that way, "through their spokesman" and through the execution of the events in very professional form with a big community involvment that parralleled the racers and the sponsors because they tied themselves into doing that good job because they had a honest committment to do so, all the way around! Long winded?? I had to be!

I think we all know why outboard manufacturers AKA Merc and OMC supported racing with engines and parts, was because it gave their products and their performances name recognition that translated into the bottom line and they believed that through racing, racing was testing their products that also helped with sales and that bottom line. We all got into this because it is a affordable motorsport for many and it above all was a spectator sport that fueled our competitive nature even more. For us there was no money it, save for expenses at times and the odd trophy and we never got into it for the most part for money but the glory in putting on a good competitive show that everyone enjoyed where the spin off effects were really up to those making it all so public and all so worth while to get to the bottom line.

Sure it can be and is to some a family thing but that is not the dominant reason most do, its all the rest that make it a SPECTATOR SPORT, FIRST & FOREMOST NO DIFFERENT THAN NASCAR IN TERMS OF ECONOMIES OF SCALE!!!!!!

The other remarkable thing I find in racing is the un-canny ability racers have to elect and have people represent them and their sports NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE SPORT BUT THEIR OWN! These self centered people that racers elect with their own private agendas that do not have the best interests in the sport in mind ceaselessly have destroyed our sport. That is our fault as racers and no one else's. You don't elect some one to enhance their status through the politics of elevated position or their connection or history with some outboard manufacturer. You elect them to do the job of furthering with out eqivocation, the betterment the sport of power boat racing. If their agenda is anything else, better have a way of getting rid of them quick because the damage these types of people will wreck the sport for decades because those bad things are way easier to remember than any good anyone else does anywhere else!

If I sound like I have some axe to grind, score to settle, point to make for some reason, I sure do! I see my sport being wrecked by what I term as stupid, self centered idiots who have no business being elected to represent us where there is nothing running off but their big mouths and what they have to say is a fraud upon our sport for their own short term personal gain!

I may be from Canada that has some American roots by birth and by service to both countries where our sports take place or in many ways used to take place, but I am not going to stand by and watch our sport be decimated by charlatans with big mouths with medeocrity and fraud in mind dealing my chosen motor sport into the dirt. I can sure tell people why our sport has virtually died out in the Midwestern (N.D,S.D,Minn. & Man.) USA and here in Western Canada starting at the Ontario border going immediate west and the USA immediately south from here. These so called elected officers of our motorsport were in the majority self centered frauds! They defrauded sponsors, defrauded spectators, defrauded the events, defrauded other racers, defrauded the events status amongst events, lined their pockets at the expense of their own members and the clubs involved and did other clandestine and shamefull things that took years to uncover that made us here ashamned we ever got involved with such dishonesty and such low live medeocrity! The horrendous stain they made out of something good for everyone that year poisoned in the situation of racing anywhere as being "not in the pubic interest" because the public was being taken to the cleaners by elected officer of racers! Our racing community as a whole is being blamned wholey for the acts of the few and we in the racing community keep electing these turkeys because they got big mouths but few brains behind them those blathering lips!

I would sooner have some non-descript, grey flannel suited, mild mannered, moralistic low key slow talking bureacrat paid to represent us at the policy level to everyonse than some of the charlatans I see elected to important positions in our clubs and sanctioning bodies for all the wrong reasons, and, as a result of our clubs wanting to be properly represented at the policy levels of our sanctioning bodies with some level headness and in the best interests of furthering our sport. What we have now are hardly representative of the best interests of our sport! Our Sport Being The Kep Operative Words!

If it sounds like "I care", you bet I do!! What is happening now, is our own collective faults and I think it is going to get worse before we bottom out and stay there a while before we are going to see it turn around, but we are not there yet.

I have a dozen drivers in my area, with mulitples of equipment in different outboard classes that are not racing anymore because idiots and in this case none of the local drivers including me, destroyed the sport in the eyes of the sponsors, locations, the public, local governments and real good sponsors and all it took was one crowning glory incident! Seven years later we get through hard work "a second chance" and many of those same people poisoned that effort too, in order to cover their tracks with consistency the first fraudulent mess they made! "Dishonesty" and "other personal political agendas" has done more to kill our sport than you can imagine and without honesty, integrity and hard work to regain our spectator sport, we are going no where! Soon.

So when are we going to do the right thing for the sport in the sport's best interests?? Or are we going to cannibalize our sport through our own weakness until it dies out?? This is a wakeup call! Who is listening???

[Tim Small]

I may be bias because I race PRO in the USTS, and we do get good crowds, but if you dont have NOISE and SPEED, you can forget about spectators or sponsorship. Take the noise and speed away from NASCAR AND INDY, and it would die an instant death.

[Miss BK]

True, if there is silence, you will never capture the crowd's attention. Same with down time. That's a killer. A good race director will never allow breaks in the action. People won't come back if they feel they didn't get their money's worth.

That's why you need a good PA at events where there isn't any noise. But the engine noise is not the only thing that will capture fans. A good announcer(s) will negate the loss of that noise. A team of announcers is even better.

I would not have believed the crowds that came to that air show Sunday. It took us two hours to get to our home only a few miles away because the parking lot was jam-packed with people. The traffic toward town was at a crawl for over an hour.

There was also a concert and fireworks that evening, but these crowds came 6 hours prior -- just to see the air show.

We spent the entire time analyzing WHY so many tens of thousands of people came to see this event - certainly not the noise. We have PRO races much louder than this 15 miles north that only attract a few hundred. There is also a stock car Speedway 5 miles away but they don't pack near a crowd like this did.

We went to the New Paris Speedway ONCE and will never go back. Nice asphalt track, BUT the place was filthy, the crowd screaming profanities, every other person was smoking a stinky cigarette - made us gag, and the people in the food booths looked greasy and grubby. It was disgusting.....NOT COOL at all. And our family LOVES racing! I was extremely disappointed, especially after the great press and media attention this place gets in our local paper - you'd think it would be fabulous! ($12 bucks a head at the gate). Never again.



So we analyzed all these events, and the two main things that stood out at the air show:

1. A good announcer keeping everyone informed - Constant action - NO LAG TIME, and a few elements of surprise (such as hoisting a car off the ground with a CG helicopter, and then dropping it. Then having a bomb fall on the car for being parked too close to the runway when the owner failed to move it - it was a actually a skit but the kids didn't know that). The "bomb" was actually some pyrotecnics on the ground that blew up right after the aircraft flew over the car. It was a HUGE hit with the fans. It really looked like the jet dropped a bomb on it.

2. The entire grounds were SPIC AND SPAN. Clean and tidy - no drunks, no smoking - and a place you'd want to bring your kids. Ample seating for all to get a good view. They also held a Mustang car show behind the air show viewing area at the same time - for those who don't like continally sitting from 1pm to 10pm. 30-40 giant VIP tents were set up at the other end. Clearly, the comfort of the spectators was high on the list of priorities. The place was loaded with over 200 volunteers (Mostly from the county 4-H clubs and churches) Even the parking area had 20-30 volunteers helping to control the traffic. It was just an all-around good time.

None of us are even a fan of airplanes or flying. But this wasn't all about airplanes -- it was well-thought out entertainment, and it was great. I'll take my family back next year, for sure. Boat racing could definitely pick up on a few tips from this event, as it would work well in that genre as well.



Our town only has 11,000 people, but 28,000 came to the show.
Here's what our local paper had to say:


“This is wonderful for the people,” said Walter Kay, Bristol, attending the air show for his third time. He stressed the program was a great family event.
“It’s my first time here. I like this. It has been years since I have seen an air show,” said Jon Caldwell, who moved to the Kay home from Utah this week. He is married to Walter’s granddaughter, he said, and is self-employed in the computer business.
“It’s interesting. I have never been here before,” said Stan Schrock. He said he has spent time at Fresno, Calif., where there are shows, war re-enactments and reunions, so he has seen them before.
But this day he spent with his 3-year-old grandson Mason, whose father is a Goshen firefighter and worked Saturday.
“It’s a great thing for a grandfather and grandson to do together,” Schrock said.
“We’re having fun,” said Mearl Martin, Goshen, who attended with his family of four. “It’s a great show.”
He said it is the fourth show his family has attended and they planned to stay for the fireworks. “It’s definitely a fun show.”
“It is a great experience,” said Boyd Smith, Goshen, at the show Saturday. He pointed out the “quality aircraft” and military machines both on the ground and in the show. He explained his interest is also sparked by the fact that he is working on his pilot’s license.
“Wow,” was the one-word comment from Jim Miller, Goshen, a military veteran and air show fan, as he raced to meet his brother, Skip, who held space for their folding chairs.
Amber Garhart, Bristol, said she and her family have been to the show three or four times. “We love it. We come here every year,” she said, and her daughters wanted to stay for the fireworks.
Arlin Slabach, Goshen, had been to the show before and said he has seen the aircraft before. But he was at the Goshen program to see the crowd and the fireworks.
Norman Otto, Shipshewana, said, “I like it a lot. It is pretty good.”
Sharkey pointed out Saturday that the crowd size may mean the Freedom Fest may be one of the largest one-day events in the state of Indiana. The board of directors of the non-profit organizations may meet again soon to discuss whether there will be another show in 2006.

[rilo22]

HERE IN RERION 12 WE HAVE HARD WORKING PEOPLE WHO PUT ON GOOD SHOWS I.E. PARKER AND LONG BEACH RACES. BUT, WITH THAT SAID THEY DO IT WITH THE SAME PEOPLE RACE AFTER RACE. NEW VOLUNTEERS ( INCLUDING MYSELF) ARE HARD TO FIND. I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD BUT REALLY BELIEVE WITHOUT RACE VOLUNTEERSTHE SPORT WILL CONTINUE TO DECINE. AS AN OWNER IWAS INVOLVED IN SPORT C AND SST 45 DURING LATE 80,s THRU 1999 AND SAW THE SPORT DECLINE WHEN COSTS TO RACE AND COSTS TO PUT ON RACES INCREASED RAPIDLY DURING MID 90,s. ONE OF THE WAYS TO SAVE THIS SPORT IS GET PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE BEACH FOR A WHILE BACK INTO THE GAME AS VOLUNTEERS WILLNG TO HELP TO CUT RACE COSTS AND ALSO WORK AT BUILDING SPECTATOR SUPPORT. BILL REITER, SR.

[Miss BK]

I'd like to add one last thing about sponsors.....


A sponsorship can be many things. When a team tries to sell a sponsorship that consists of only showing up at the races, they are doomed to get a negative response. If you have TV or magazine coverage, that may entice them a little, but if you are only soliciting the impact it will have on the fans at the races -- forget it.

Back when I raced (mid to late 1980's), I knew any sponsor I approached would not get excited about the size of crowds at the boat races. So I didn't even try to sell him a "Racing Package".

I was very successful at selling a "promotional" package instead. I went after my home town businesses, and would paint the sponsors name on the boat -- but where my sponsor's got thier money's worth was in the Off-season - at our own LOCAL events.

One of my sponsors was a body shop in Kingman AZ. So, obviously, he was not interested in the Kankakee, IL OPC Nationals or the Bakersfield Halloween regatta. He and I both knew he was not likely to get customers from that exposure - not even at the Havasu Classic 50 miles away.

The way he got exposure was when I put my boat in the local Kingman parade so everyone saw "D AND D AUTO BODY" on the side. I also would park my boat where ever he needed me to park it to get attention. At conventions, art shows in the park, or the local business fair, my unique race boat was there catching attention.

After each race (and sometimes before), I pulled my boat into the Kingman Miner Newspaper parking lot and knocked on the door asking for the sports editor. I was never turned down and my boat with the "D & D AUTO BODY" ad on the side was in the local paper dozens of times. That alone is worth $100s of dollars for my sponsors.

D & D paid most of my entry fees, - even to Bakersfield - and sometimes paid travel expenses too. Another company took care of my repairs and minor parts. It all depended on how much off-season time I was willing to donate for advertising in their home towns.

One thing is for sure - they could not have cared less about exposure they got at the races.

Even NASCAR teams have to add in a lot of extra perks to get the big bucks. For instance, during the off-season, Rick Hendrick takes his sponsors and their clients for race car rides at Nascar tracks as well as all sorts of other special treatments.

So that's just an idea; When I hear people say they can't get sponsorships, I know they are just approaching the businesses from the wrong angle.

Let your imagination run wild. You'll be amazed at what you can come up with!

[Miss BK]

Here's one example of the negative effect not having good public address system, and/or not having an announcer who is successful at involving the fans who come to watch the boat race. This "guide" was in the Sarasota Tribune. This year, however, the fans were able to listen to an AM radio broadcast, so hopefully they weren't shrugging their shoulders this time...



Boat racing for the clueless

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050701/FEATURES/50701011

By STEVE ECHEVERRIA JR.
After two decades, the folks involved with the Suncoast Offshore Grand Prix Festival know everything about the sport — the boats, the race, the history.
But what about the rest of us......

http://imgsrv.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SH&Date=20050701&Category=FEATURES&ArtNo=50701011&Ref=AR&Profile=1032&MaxW=580&title=1

....All most of us want to know is what’s happening on the course during the race, which begins at 11 a.m. Sunday between New Pass and Big Pass. (The awards ceremony is at 6 p.m. at the Sarasota Fairgrounds.)

Proceeds from the festival benefit the Florida Center for Child and Family Development.

And since there aren’t resources for race novices or average Joes, we decided to put this primer together.

So the next time someone asks which class a 50-foot catamaran with more than a 1,000 horsepower belongs in, you can confidently state, “Superboat Unlimited, of course.”

It's better than shrugging your shoulders.

[Bear 45/70]

You guys won't like this but APBA is the biggest problem that boat racing has today. Pretty much like this country, the government is the problem anymore. Neither APBA or thw US Government is doing it's job, but keeps wanting us to pay even more government for less and less results. Unfortunately, in both case they have changed things to the point where the little guy has no way left to get some control without complete rebellion. Also unfortunately most Americans believe the rebelling against those in power is wrong. It isn't and it needs to be done and the sooner the better.

[Danny McManus]

Unity, a single word that can define the resurgance of our HOBBY !!!!
my friend Ron has accurately pointed out that our sport of boat racing is, in fact
a" HOBBY" and he is right -on-the-money. A man who has recieved a lifetime
appointment to the APBA board of directors,( Charlie Strang) mentioned to me
that we are witnessing a result of the " Expert Syndrome" , that is , "We have
made our sport so specialized that only a few dedicated diehards are willing to
continue to participate at this level..." that sounds accurate!!!
Please bear with me now as it is the 4th of July and I put in 9 hours at the marina...then got deep in Crown Royal :p :p ....
I suggest that the sooner we accept our place in todays world of recreational
activities, the better off we'll be. A well known OPC driver recently told me
"we try to mirror NASCAR, but NONE of us have NASCAR money!!!"

to be continued......

[B VALACHOVIC]

It does not matter if we like something here, we are placing input to try and fix something of todays problems.All of anything smeone has to say on this forum is welcome as far as i am concerned. So say what you feel and somehow we will all gather it up and make something from all of this.

[B VALACHOVIC]

What did Charlie Strang say about Syndrome?????????

[Miss BK]

The difference is - the people running the government get paychecks.

I used to think every time something went wrong, it was all "APBA's" fault too. Til I realized who controls APBA - the members do. So if it's "APBAs" fault, that means it's the racers fault. Every single person on the APBA Board is elected by the racers they serve. And most of them have "real" jobs as well.

But the problem is just like the problem Region 12 has with volunteers-- being a board member or officer takes a ton of time and work - and many of them are boat racers too. How many people do you know want to work a full time job for free? So, when the ballot comes out, it's no wonder why you don't see very many new names on there.

What is really the problem is that too many racers who feel they have great new ideas or want changes, don't get involved with the voting process - they don't come to region meetings and they don't give input to the reps that show up at the National Meeting to speak for them. They scream, but not when or where it counts.

So the officers and chairmen just have to guess what is best for everyone while getting an earful from the few guys and gals who *do* show up at the meetings. Just like any democratic process, if you don't get active and noisy, then you probably won't get what you want. There is power in numbers -- I've watched it happen. If you are serious about wanting things to change, that's where you start.


Also, APBA has been through a whirlwind of change over the years, including the historic National Meeting vote of 2002 where we learned that racers can make whatever they want happen in APBA. All it takes is effort.




Danny - I ignore those who think we need to be like NASCAR. We should be making our own, unique impression on folks. But remember, once upon a time NASCAR never dreamt they'd be "NASCAR" either. And what I saw Sunday -- who would have thought an air show would draw 28,000 people? Good night, Not me. These producers created a great show and the people came in droves - even people that didn't have any connection to airplanes paid the $8. There is no reason why the same can't be done with boat racing too if it has the right ingredients where the crowd screams "WOW THAT'S COOL!".

Happy 4th! have a Crown for me! :)

[Danny McManus]

I really appreciate it that BK sharred her recent attendance at an airshow...
that is because I suggested an " Airshow Mentallity" at drivers meeting in
Chatahoochee, Fla. Simply put, I strongly recommended to the three new
OPC Super-Sport drivers we recruited that we "DON"T HIT EACH OTHER"...
That recommendation came from my observation that when we finally do attract new people to our hobby, it is bad to have them take home their new pride and joy (race-boat) with damaged parts. The best saftey equipment on a race boat is the STEERING WHEEL and the THROTTLE !!!!
...back to BK's airshow observations...I feel that the pilots in airshows figured
out a LONG time ago that the safest behavior is " ZERO CONTACT" think about that... if they crash in a 250 mph freefall in a vehicle filled with 100LL avgas,
it doesn't matter how current your helmet and seatbelts are!!!
The reality here is that, like it or not, powerboat racing is on the "EDGE of IRRELEVANCE" in the global spectrum of sporting events.... With all due respect
to the remaining group of us, the "Diehard Enthusiasts" , we MUST endeavor to acknowledge that our "hobby" has to return to our roots of fun and fellowship if we are to perpetuate our shared interest. It is all going to come down "UNITY"...
For no matter how much our choices of equipment differ, our collective interests are to all share our increasingly rare pursuit of displays of our ability to exhibit the best we can do on the water...together as a group...

[Miss BK]

Hey Danny - you are right about the airshow and ZERO CONTACT -- but that doesn't mean they dont give the ILLUSION of a near collision.

There were a pair of stunt pilots who aimed RIGHT AT EACH OTHER doing loop after loop --- of course, they probably were 100 feet apart, but it appeared to the crowd that they were going to smack RIGHT into one another. The announcer was very much a part of that 'anticipation' and excitment as he gasped and screamed each time they passed each other.

We can't simply think that the racing itself is going to keep today's crowd happy. We have much too much to compete with. Crowds today want to be kept at the edge of their seats - in constant stimulation.

The Sacramento Water Festival used to bring in many fans too --- and I remember all kinds of wild stuff going on between heats - constant action. One year Howard Arneson brought his fire-throwing turbine and made a pass for the crowd. That same year there were skydivers and an Army Chinook helicopter "rescued" a boater who was "lost at sea" in the middle of the course. Again, the PA Announcer kept everyone excited - no lag time.

It wasn't just a boat race --- it was a high impact show. IMO, there is no reason we can't bring that back. We can be more creative than those boring monster trucks, that's for sure! :D

In Valleyfield Canada they have a cannon on a boat that shoots T-shirts at the crowd and they go absolutely wild. If there is lag time they can't prevent, they play "YMCA" and the entire audience participates - jumping up and down.

Some creative imagination - that's all we need.

[Danny McManus]

:)
I sincerely feel that as soon as the majority of our remaining boat racers can go home after a weekend of boat-racing feeling GREAT about their efforts, that they will be our sports FINEST form of advertising!!! This will only occur as our sport evolves ( or as the case may be "realigns" ) itself to recognise the involvement of the very least among us... We will have to say to the "back-markers"... "WE ARE HAPPY YOU ARE HERE!!!! " (that is a general behavior,necessary on the part of the race commitee and veteran racers )
There are participants in every category, at every level who show up on countless weekends of boat racing with no expectations of winning, yet are happy to be part of our chosen sport, they are genuinely thrilled to be part of our activities...a kind word or offer of help from one of the people who have always had a seat at at the " cool kids table" can and will go a long way towards them having that indescribable "warm and fuzzy feeling" on their long ride home... That is simply much more benificial to our collective progress than
the alternative "long ride home" wherin our fellow boat racers are left to ponder the haunting question of "why do I bother with this"...

...going to fix another drink :p ...more to come :) :)

[B VALACHOVIC]

As i am reading this the Monster trucks are being advertised on television to appear at our Lebanon Valley Speedway. Every time they come here the Monster trucks fill the speedway with fans.They will be sold out.

[Danny McManus]

:D
I get calls daily from people that want to rent a boat slip from me or want their boat repaired or just want to know where the fish are biteing. I don't advertise!!
( I do have billboards at two of the areas small high school footbal stadiums)
People of similar interests tend to talk to others of same interests. period..
The mainstream involvement in todays powerboat racing is cultivated from powerboat racers themselves. We no longer make national news, we don't get much "ink" in the local papers and I was seated for diner at a St. Louis resturaunt on a Thursday night before the St.Louis Outboard Grand Prix and asked the waiter if he had heard of Bill Seebold...he said, "Isn't he a hockey
player??"....
My point is, we are not likely to become celebrities doing this, and the prize money often won't cover the weekends expenses. The best thing for us to hope for is the respect of our fellow drivers, that we race them clean and fair, and that ALL our fellow drivers go home proud to have shared the same race-course with us!!!!!!

[B VALACHOVIC]

periodically Tony Stewart and Dave Blaney come to the Lebanon Valley Speedway to run the big block Dirt Modifieds. The Speedway will sell out within the hour. You can purchase a pit pass if you wish and get close to the action.

[B VALACHOVIC]

After the Soviet Union sort of went out of business and we could speak to the rest of the family on my Moms side without the censorship B S , I asked them if they knew anything about boat racing . They said we know but not so much ,so I gave them some names, quite a few. I was saving the two for the last, I said Bill Seebold, finally they said we have heard of this, but just the last name. Then I said Molinari, they said Renato Molinari , I said thats the one. They said to me Bob , everyone in Europe knows him ,Renato is a National Hero. Bob

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

It is excellent to see everyone grasping our dilema with carefull thoughts and comparissons on how to bring us back from the brink of going down. It is my hope that this discussion is just not venting? That it is discussion that pursues and actions changes.

Lets make that happen and it starts here and there and it must be put together.

Some how political differences that divide our sport need to be eliminated for the common good. We used to do it but we did not change with the times to continue to successfully do it.

Can we make changes fast enough without burning out people dedicated to changing what needs to be changed and quickly.

You can take volunteerism only so far and that stops too with different types of burnouts and expenses no one should suffer by those wanting to help making sure everyone does a fair share within their abilities and means.

We are all different and we all have something we can do and contribute something unique to do all this.

*In that spirit of "Can Do" we need to establish and vet a true database of people who want to advance the common good, weld it all together and get it going. This proposed database or databases need management, organization and maintennance coupled to the ability to do short and long term planning that can cut across all kinds of lines and hangups to make changes.

This is not pie in the sky and a place to start.

*Question is? Who will sponsor such a database of like minded people doing the same things with the gifts given them? Ron Hill??? Ted March??? Charlie Williams??? etc. etc. We are talking a new kind of organization here of Can Do'ers that is not a threat to properly running and rationalized for the good of the sport - Sanctioning/governing Body or Bodies.

We can talk but when does the buck stop here? :)

[oldalkydriver]

Most of you have valid points. Now even though I was brought up around boat racing (1948-1962) and my racing career was even shorter (1954-1962), I look at boat racing from an outsiders point of view.

Out here on the West Coast, everytime I would make a comment (good or bad) I would catch nothing but flack! Just to give you an example, I traveled to my first race in at least 23 years, from Arcadia, California to Pleasanton, California. Let me add, well worth the trip. I only knew two people from my racing days, and really not that well. Howard Adnerson and Jim Schoenfelt. I met some new people who were very helpful (Paul Fuchlin) and some who were not so interesting.

My wife fell in love with boat racing and wanted to give it a try. Naturally that cleared the way for me to get back into the sport. We loved the races at Shadow Cliffs. Well worth the 400 miles one way and the $100 per night room. Kind of kindled an old desire.

On the drive back home, my wife said she was serious about trying to race. I explained that we should go to a couple of races first and see what happens. I told her that I want to run 1100CC Runabouts again, even though they appeared to be much faster then what I was accustomed too. If she wanted, she could ride with me. That's after I learn to handle a boat somewhat.

Our next race was Chowchilla. Long drive for not knowing anyone, and what a disappointment. Very few classes and even fewer boats. We were told that everyone was coming back from nationals therefore a dismal turnout! We took it in stride and return to Southern California.

Next we found a race in Indio, California. Lot less driving and upon arrival, a lot less boats. Still, not bad as we brought our neighbors with us, and they developed an interest in racing.

Next came Lodi. Used to be one of my favorite places. Wife couldn't get off work, so I drove up by myself. And as most of you know, I wrote what an outsider saw. Man, did I get chewed out left and right. Made me feel even more distant from racing. Got comments from so many people like, "I travel that far to almost all of my races." Yes, I imagine you do. But you do so to race! I was trying to see if I would like to get back in to racing. Mentioned how I saw an official hawlering at some spectators, and caught flack for that. I could go on and on, but why open old wounds?

The point is YOU do have a sport to save, and while most people have good ideas, it is for their area! Here in California, they have a totally different type of situation. People need to look at todays world. There is a LOT of competition for the ENTERTAINMENT dollar now days. That's right! Entertainment!!

In business, the difference between success and failure is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! Boat racing is no different. What spectator is going to travel upt to a few hundred miles to watch boat racing? Therefore Location. Everyone has listened to the radio, or watched television sometime in their life. When I was in the radio business in Georgia, you could be fired for DEAD AIR TIME. And I'm sure the same holds true in todays airways. So why should boatracing be any different? You have to ENTERTAIN people now days, and you must give them more for their HARD EARNED DOLLAR.

Take a good look at Las Vegas. During the 50's, 60's and early 70's, it was know as Sin City. Only adults went there. Except for one casino, nobody could take thier kids. Then the other casinos started noticing that even when business was bad in town, this one casino was always full and making money. Only took the rest of the town 20 years to figure out that gambling could be FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT! Next thing you know, every casino on the strip had FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT! Just think of the message they were sending to our kids? It's okay to gamble, mom and dad did! Talk about future business, WOW!

While I agree with most of you about noise, you must look at it from a PARANTS point of view. You fathers don't want your daughter starting off in the fastest class around, just because it has noise. And you moms don't want your little boy to get hurt. Now you have arrived a selling point.

In my view, again just my point of view, the racing community (Stock, Pro, Inboards, Tunnels etc.) need to do some sacraficing. If I was incharge (Love that ifida) I would schedule one race in each of the two regions here in California that would be all out. My schedule would contain a beginning class (whatever it is now, in my days 'M' Hydro), then a class for those kids from 12 to say fifteen. Not too fast, just exciting with full fields. Then a couple of noisie classes with some decent speed, but safe, not b*lls to the wall type, but would appeal to some older folks and some graduating from slower classes. Then I would schedule whatever classes I could get with full fields. Not classes that only have three or four boats. The idea is that you are selling FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT! SAFE, FUN, APPEALING FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT!

Of course one person couldn't think of everything, and would need the co-operation of both regions. If you schedule the correct type of entertainment ( High School Bands, Collector Cars, Motorcycles, Magicians and whatever else you could think of) and present a clean pits, with relatively clean clothes, and most important, nice looking signs by each class of boat, explaining what the cost would be to purchase that type of outfit.

When you draw the crowds, the sport will sell ITSELF! Providing you can entertain.

I could go on and on, but it is not my place, nor the right time. Again just one of the ways I look at boat racing.

[B VALACHOVIC]

I will agree with Miss BK . A lot of municipalities are looking for added activities for the water front properties they have or are in the process of re doing. A Man alone is in bad company is what Costeau used to say,apparently so is boat racing. Join a festival and you will have instant spectators and all the support of the community.

[rilo22]

In 1988 we raced at walker lake in hawthorne nevada. the town is small and somewhat isolated in eastern nevada.other than the racing community you would not expect much of a turnout for the race. city officials and the racers organized a boat parade the day prior to the race. we had a good crowd attendance.next day we had a good spectator attendance and many people came buy our pit to say they had seen us inthe parade and decidedto attend the race.(pits were open) granted this was a small town with limited recreational activities, but I believe these kind of pre-race promotions do promote our sport. unfortunately this race site,due to other promotional issues no longer exsists. Bill Reiter sr.

[Miss BK]

It is sad to me that "Seebold" isn't a household name all across America. When I was a kid we all knew the names of the boxing champs. Cassius Clay, George Foreman. But fads change -- I really don't know who the main guys in boxing are today. Before Lance Armstrong's story, I had no clue who was into bicycle racing. Whatever becomes "cool" is what gets the coverage.

But success does not always equal fame. We already acknowledged we will never be like NASCAR, so we then must focus on other avenues to reach success...

The air show was a huge success, but I have no idea who those pilots were, nor did most of the audience. Nor are they ever likely to become household names or famous. All we - the audience - cared about was: Did the event keep us entertained without any annoyances like dead time? Did we get our money's worth? Was it exciting enough to draw us back next year? Were our needs met? (ie: quality public address system, ample food booths, clean facilities) Was it a fun time? The answer was "yes" to all of those.

That one-day air show (approx 6 hour show) over the weekend was a GIANT success, and multiply 28,000 by $8 = I'll bet none of them had to pay for their own fuel or entry fee.

[ferv888ipba]

I have announced boat races throughout the country for the Nor Cal clubs as well as for the USTS the last 15 to 20 years. I have watched with interest as we put on great races and the only ones who see them are the racers and their families.

Yet, when we go to Depue for the Nationals the local and Peoria papers estimate that we have about 50K for the weekend of racing. Why are the nationals able to draw, yet when we race at Depue on Fathers Day weekend and the stocks race the next weekend we can not draw flies. Why I ask? Then I look at my own kids. Not one of them is interested in motorsports and in fact wonder how Dad became so enamored. They are into the computers, baseball and other sports, not that it makes them bad, but they have other choices. TV, video games, and other things keep them from looking at other sports.

I think if you had a course where you could race 5-6 times a year you could build up a fan base. Promote the heck out of it, radio, tv, newspaper, parades interviews, get the drivers inneraction with the fans going, give them someone to cheer for.

The other area would be to do what USTS has done and put about a 4 hour program with full fields. Last thing a fan, or me the announcer wants to see is a 4 boat parade. Limit the number of classes. What did that heritic say, yes I did say limit the number of classes. I know in some areas the 25 classes are needed to accomplish getting the entry money to pay the insurance and sanctions. But, think about what that 10am to 6 pm schedule does to you, the fan, and the guy who gets to run only one heat becasue we ran out of time before his second heat gets to run.

I do not have the anwers to all of this, but I do not believe we can go back to what I and all of us thought were the "good ole days." I think we need to make these the "days", by figuring out what the fan wants and give it them.

I know some areas of the country have stock, Mod, Pro, Inboard, and OPC all running on the same program and I do not argue for purity and I think neither does the fan. They want to see a well run program, little down time, other things to do, while there and we can do it.

Ray

[AOFOffice]

Ray, I agree with your concept of local racing. Boat racing needs to start at the bottom and work up. We are trying to start at the top and work down. NASCAR started at local dirt racing tracks and moved up because the local races were successful.
I live near Cedar Rapids, IA with a waterfront and a strong racing support. (usually have 20,000 spectators at a local event, whether they are there on the water front for the races or because they are just hanging out is irrelevant). Cedar Rapids asked me if we could do a 2 hour race every Thursday evening! Yeah, they came to me! I had to turn them down. Why? Because there is not enough local racesr to come race every Thursday eveing. What a shame.
I could do an AOF race there every week end. (Cheap racing to build clout and support). It would bring back grassroots racing. Why don't I? Because it is not "cool" to race an AOF race. No one gets the picture. You have to start small and build a strong foundation. Get a few more hooked into our sport,,,then a few sponsors...then put on an APBA race and be "cool." because of the strong foundation set.
Just like Danny said, we need Unity and a plan and an understanding that we are celebreties only in our own minds.
Connie

[Tim Small]

Ray, The reason we have 50k at Depue in July is simple. PROMOTION,PROMOTION,PROMOTION. Every business for miles and miles has a flyer in the window for the nationals. In June, no one promotes the race. My dad raced at Depue in the 1940s, and always had huge crowds he said. They had a promoter hired by badger state club to promote all races before they came to town. Before anything else, if your race isnt promoted on TV, NEWSPAPER, OR RADIO, you are finished. Very simple. Hope to see you in Depue Ray.

[ferv888ipba]

Hi Tim,
Glad to see you on line. I think back to what we had with DePue a few years ago for the second race and we drew flys. This year I understand we had a better crowd, but we also had the Peoria and LaSalle papers run articles and schedule, we ran 3 days of 8 ads each day, and I did a couple of interviews with the radio station locally. This is what we have to do.

I will be at Constantine and you can not ask for a better spectator course and great full fields of racing. However your point is well taken about promo. Great place to race, lots of boats, great racing and a minimal crowd.

I would love to be able to race at Depue 6x a year and promote the heck out of it and get the grass roots back together. I love the USTS concept and think it is the best, now we need to build on it.

Health is coming back hope to see you in a few weeks.

Ray

[AOFOffice]

Ray, I think I will welcome you back to Constantine the most! When you are gone they make me talk, and I am not very good at it. lol
Connie
ps, I did throw in a couple of "Holy buckets!" just for you!

[Guy]

These so called elected officers of our motorsport were in the majority self centered frauds! They defrauded sponsors, defrauded spectators, defrauded the events, defrauded other racers, defrauded the events status amongst events, lined their pockets at the expense of their own members and the clubs involved and did other clandestine and shamefull things that took years to uncover that made us here ashamned we ever got involved with such dishonesty and such low live medeocrity! The horrendous stain they made out of something good for everyone that year poisoned in the situation of racing anywhere as being "not in the pubic interest" because the public was being taken to the cleaners by elected officer of racers! Our racing community as a whole is being blamned wholey for the acts of the few and we in the racing community keep electing these turkeys because they got big mouths but few brains behind them those blathering lips!


I hear you John. Everyone in APBA really owe's Ed & Steve Hearn ALOT of thanks & gratitude for saving APBA from certain Doom and from these losers. I think most everyone here agree's with you and has some sort of Axe to grind with them as well! I know I do! Yes, they really caused some BIG problems. I think we ALL know who "they" are.

I personally do not believe we should mask these peoples names who have caused so much adversity, corruption, and huge wastes of APBA finances. Hey, they made their bed, now they gotta deal with laying in it (that is IF they still want to be involved with APBA)!

Many people (myself included) tried to warn ALOT of people in APBA (very early in the game) about Mike Allweiss, Steve Miklos and their blind gestapo-style friends/fanclub support network.
As you basically said, they used almost every low, cheap, dirty trick in the book to get what they wanted and/or to hurt anyone that thay think might be a threat to their cause (or ego's)! And Lord help ANYONE who WAS a threat, or incredibly even just had a unfavorable "opinion" about something regarding them!

The extreme measures they would then go to to deal with these poor people were incredible & abhorrent!
Many people here have seen (and/or have personally experienced) them do the following pathetic & tasteless maneuvers:
1. Improperly robbing drivers & owners of Wins, Titles and Records (ask Ben Robertson).

2. Make literal outright physical threats to people.

3. Use deceipt, stretching the truth or outright lies to attempt to destroy a person's credability, integrity, reliability and accomplishments.
I've been told that Miklos and Allweiss made it a point to do this to MANY people (myself included) at at least 2 APBA National Meetings, by subtly & deviously spreading lies and talking trash to these same peoples freinds & racing peers as well as to APBA Officers (all coincidentally done behind these peoples backs, when those people were either not attending or not currently present to defend themselves).

4. All the Offshore Officers overlooking many VERY obvious management "Conflictions of Interest" and "Internal Corruption". I.E. - other Officers also being competitors/drivers/owners. To which coincidentally later, they themselves basically inappropriately & undeservingly awarded some of themselves a Hall of Champions spot & National Titles.

5. Selfish Agenda's (it was quite obvious, regardless of what they said, that they NEVER had any cares of OR for APBA's other category's when they attempted their hostile takeover).

6. Insurmountable ego's & self-righteousness.

All of these things obviously & definetly adds up to a absolute recipe for failure.
What I STILL can not understand is, during (and still after) all of this corruption, chaos and deceipt, how some people STILL support and fight for these people and their flat wrong incorrigible ideals, values and ethics???!!!

[ferv888ipba]

Connie,
Hope that all is well. I am looking forward to my first USTS race this year. I appreciate what you and John did for the club this year. My health is good and the Lord has trully blessed me.

Guy,
I loved your note, now let's figure out a way for us to harness the anger and get us back on track with some racing. APBA has been around the block more than once with guys like that. My question is does APBA exist for us or do we exist for them?

I am not saying that they are good or bad, however is there a way for us to do for ourselves what they charge us for?

Do we continue to look at the litigation that is out there as a hinderence from moving out on our own or do we look for ways to accomplish what AOF has done. Not recommneding we go that way, just asking is there other opportunities to take control and begin to build our sport back again.

Ray

[Mike Fjeld]

Personally, I just want to race and I don’t care who puts on the race.

I have noticed that there is not one big association that covers all of auto racing. For instance NASCAR, ARCA, IRL, FASCAR, SCORE, USAC, and many others. Successful racing associations are usually run by a “ for profit “ Dictatorship ie NASCAR. I’m sure that if you ask a nascar driver if they have a problem with the France family making millions of dollars off them you would hear a ‘Hell NO” There is no voting in nascar and if you don’t like their rules you can take your ball home. This apparently works!!!

I will do my best to go to any race that a promoter invites me to regardless of the association or how much money they make, heck, it’s a lot of hard work to put on a good show and whoever does it should be rewarded for it.

[ferv888ipba]

Mike,
Right you are about NASCAR, what they have is a benevolent dictator that runs the show.

I think that is exactly what we need to do. Find someone who can sell some races, select the classes that are most prevelent in the area, whether they are Stock, Mod, Pro or whatever and pick 10 classes, get 12 boats or more in each class, run a four hour show with local promotion on it and go. Now if we could just find that guy.

Ray :)

[rilo22]

Ray Are you sugesting one super salesman for all regions or a person to represent each region? It might be a little overwhelming for one person to try to promote nationwide. There are talented people in each region, but getting them to volunteer their expertise may be a tough sell. BILL REITER

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

A benevolent dictatorship like Nascar or and equivelent coming in the form of a single voice that has strong headed professionals delivering based on economies of scale. We are not Nascar but we are some pretty worthy race events for spectators once you put locations like DePue Pro Nationals forward as an example. It is not perfection either but it sure does belt out, but even it does not get the coverage it should and should build on as a spectator event moreso with coverages.

I think you need some very heavy duty methods here not unlike those that are breeding success (Nascar). The biggest challenge of all is to make outboard racing the "Spectator Sport" again that it was, with the leaving of these "races for racers" as feeder events that feed racing team products (one class racers to mulitple class racers) to "Spectator Events. Call it tiered or stratified, which means you have to qualify yourself as you go higher to the Spectator Events? Just an idea.

Over the years I have raised big sponsor money because there was a business plan with a vision each time. Sponsors want a bang for their buck, in the past, now and in the future and also saw that business plan and vision. The problem is that the event execution either showed the worst sides of racing and it politics or when given a second chance, would not come at all unless pre-paid and or bribed no matter that outright fraud was delivered the first time. Sponsors are made to feel sorry for the organizers because racers and their brand of politics knifed themselves in the back. Lesson learned. That is what we do best and that is what has happened. A racers basic flaw.

In any endevor there has to be a product, a business plan, a sell and the delivery and with that business plan done a new business cycle built on the previous one's success. Nascar can be called a good teacher. How do we get good students? and On our economies of scale as outboard racers who need to be better represented to the spectating public?

[Guy]

Mike,
Right you are about NASCAR, what they have is a benevolent dictator that runs the show.

I think that is exactly what we need to do. Find someone who can sell some races, select the classes that are most prevelent in the area, whether they are Stock, Mod, Pro or whatever and pick 10 classes, get 12 boats or more in each class, run a four hour show with local promotion on it and go. Now if we could just find that guy.

Ray :)


Ray,
I totally (but humbly) disagree.
What your describing (as to a dictatorship) "WAS" exactly what Allweiss tried to do (and came VERY close to succeeding).
His failure is an excellent example of WHY a dictator type strategy in "our" environment (ie. APBA as a whole) will NEVER work!

I regress.

Allweiss's basic Business Strategy/Plan was built on, for and about ONLY one APBA category in mind, "Offshore".
When they first submitted his "plan" to APBA, they also tried the ploy of saying it could also be successfully applied to ANY category in APBA. What a load of crap that was!
Why?

1. You simply can not compare the whole Offshore category environment to ALL other APBA category's. Simply because most of Offshore's whole environment is quite unique to the rest of APBA's category's.

This would be the same thing as saying that "Indy Car, Champ Car & Formula One" should use and apply the environment & rules from the "Off-road & Rally racing" environment! I really doubt Tony George, Bernie Ecclestone or Max Mosely would want nor allow that to happen in their respective series!

Offshore simply has a different demographic then the rest of APBA. They indeed have a much more marketable & generally accepted product (as it relates to the marine industry & its average enthusiasts). Also the majority of Offshores fan base & enthusiasts are mostly either weekend warrior pleasure boaters or pleasure boat speed-freaks (not that there is anything wrong with that, as most people do enjoy a fast pleasure boat ride).
I would bet the farm that Offshore owns the high majority of the total # of marine based enthusiasts & race fans. Mostly because, as I just said, the Offshore Category Product caters more to the average familiar boat owned by most of the average boaters. So this does NOT leave to many other marine based racing fans & enthusiasts to support the other category (ie. Drag boats, Tunnel Boats, Inboard & Outboard Hydroplanes etc.).

Hard to believe that even with all of these huge benefits automatically slated for/to their cause, they STILL failed...

2. Did they honestly believe that the Mod, PRO, Stock, OPC and R/C categorys all have the need OR funds available to:
A. Buy a VERY expensive legal license from APBA.
B. Hire P/R firms or personell to promote their category.
C. Pay salary's to the same internal category positions that for the
last 100 years have always been salary-free.
D. Create new job titles AND pay them as well.


So again, Allweiss's plan was indeed applicable, as long as it was used for Offshore, but as far as APBA as a whole was concerned, it was a certain recipe for failure & loss. Thankfully it failed (at least from the APBA viewpoint), but at a huge cost to both sides.

So, now the question is, why & how did the failure (in the Offshore environment) occur, and how can we learn from it.

Many people (who have been around boat racing ALOT longer then Allweiss & Miklos) believe that even IF the Allweiss Empire WOULD have followed the proposed business plan faithfully & accurately, it still eventually would have failed anyway.
Ron Hill and my late friend Buddy Babbitt (RIP my friend) both said it best. Boat Racing (no matter what category) "has been, is AND always will be" basically a sportsman hobby or a niche sport. We must accept that Boat racing is not nor ever will be a Mainstream Motorsport! If you try to format & run a business strategy without this in mind (ie. pretend that your NASCAR, but without the incoming cash) then your inevitably doomed. And because of this unfortunate environment label, alot of similar sports will simply never enjoy all the fruits of success that come with actually being a main stream motorsport. Heck, even Monster Trucks (sadly) have a bigger fan base AND gets better coverage then all APBA does!

We could debate the causes of our unfortunate environment label for days (trust me, it HAS already been done twice over), but the facts remain, AND as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

The way I see it, Allweiss's main Business Plan/Strategy had a major fault built into it from the very beginning (which attributed to his/their demise, well, besides the APBA hostile takeover attempt, greed, ego's, hidden agenda's and corruption issues).
To put it simply (regardless of what Offshore says): They failed because of their ignorance in realizing & accounting for the HUGE financial costs incurred of continually trying to successfully run a "mainstream motorsport environment, when you simply are not one of them.

And due to this unfortunate cirmumstance, Allweiss's strategy & environment did not & could not become fully realized. Offshore simply could not enjoy all the full capacity benefits of the typical various networks of Support (both financial & logistical) that typically enshrouds a mainstream motorsport like NASCAR & Formula One.

But thats not to say that you can't at least form a great & successful business plan/strategy for boat racing AND have it just as organized, successful and financially lucrative as NASCAR (but with out all the exhorbatant costs incurred like NASCAR has). There are many APBA (and non-apba) affiliated clubs, series & associations that are doing just that.

1. The U-boats (UHRA, PROP or what ever they are now known as). IMHO, the pinacle of boat racing. Though they are having some issues currently, they still have a great show and a decent faithful dedicated fan base. The causes for their various problems & failures are vast & speculative, ranging from Bernie Little's passing to equipment costs & availability. But they survived and are still racing.

2. The Champ Boat series has a good strategy with a fantastic show, has shown some good growth and also has a loyal dedicated fan base. However, when Gary Garbrecht began having some major health problems (which unfortunately led to his passing), there were some viable questions and apprehensions regarding the series. But obviously the current powers that be have answered their calling and still have a very successful strategy.

3. The US Title Series has also consistantly maintained a great business plan for many years now. They subscribe to the: "give em two short exciting days of organized, loud, close extreme boat racing and you'll win everytime" strategy. Still one of the best shows on the water.

4. AOF. One of the longest running, most cost effective and successful grass roots style "non-APBA affiliated" racing organizations in the country. Connie Payne was/is instrumental in administering the club and does a wonderful job!


The common strategy elements which I see within these successful racing series (which I haven't noticed in offshore's format or strategy) is:
1. They are realistic with their respective racing environments. They know their boundries, limitations & achievable goals (and, hopefully, what the insurmountable risks & costs might be of drastically overstepping them).

2. There is very little (if any) constant inner termoil, corruption, Conflicts of Interest, hidden agenda's and utter chaos (which Offshore just seems to have always had & seemingly encourages) within their respective environments, series & races. Sure, all APBA Category's have/had problems & termoil once in a while, but no where near the amount that Offshore constantly seems to have. Basically have some respect for the sport and its participants, officials and fans.

3. Try to have fun at the races and NOT take things to serious.


Ok, I'm done and will step down off my soapbox. Sorry for the long-winded reply/post, I (and many others) just feel that a dictatorship is NOT the way to go in our sport. There is irrefutable proof of that now. It is and should always be led as a democracy type environment. Putting that much irrevocable power in one persons hand (no matter how good hearted he/she is) IS VERY dangerous to the sport & potentially lethal to its future existance.

[Mike Fjeld]

Yes, your right proof is in the pudding.

Many years ago APBA was bigger than Nascar.. APBA has been in steady decline since then and NASCAR along with many other forms of motor racing like lawn mower and monster truck racing has been a rocket to the stars. Without major changes it will continue and I will be telling my grandchildren about the time when people actually raced boats. In my humble opinion if the decision makers had incentive ( $$$$ ) our sport would grow. In todays market there is countless millions of dollars set aside in major companys for advertising and marketing. All we need to do is put on a good show without the BS. I think maybe us racers are not capable of this and we NEED a damn good promoter like Bill France. ( nobody in his family races in nascar, they were taught to sell snow cones to the paying spectators )

The idea about step up classes also works--- AMA

If we don’t have major changes then there will be no change and continuing decline

[ferv888ipba]

Guy,
Boy did I step on the accelerator!!!!! Guy we are in agreement more than you are giving up here.

I am not talking about a guy like you describe in the offshore debacle. I am talking about a person(PC), who sells a race and decides which classes to invite. Someone who is promotionaly minded, who is the sponsor contact, and can give the spectators the sponsor wants to draw a show. Someone who understands what the sponsor is seeking and gives it to them. Not somone who takes the money and runs. If you pay him something, let it be 10% of the prize money assigned to the race. No sponsorship, no money. Most of us do it for free now anyway. None of the folks I know ever got rich off of this sport, either from sponsorship or from prize money. I am willing to try anything that gets us to more spectators and sponsorship.

Control Guy still rests with the racers, not with the promoter. You only allow the promoter to sell the race and within reason decide the classes. USTS has forever tried to get OSY 400 to come and race with us and to really no avail. We have some USTS members who have the class, but we need more help from the Stock guys who run it. They do not show for the most part except at DePue. Hey, their choice, but as a sponsor I want 10-12 boats on the water with a four hour show, a little break in between for some other activities and then back to racing.

I have been President and currently announce for the USTS and I appreciate your kind words about the organization. When you have folks in the organization that come from Fla. Ga. Ny, MN and even California, every where in between to each race it is because of two things. They want to race against the best and we try to keep the races in a central locale where you can leave equipment and fly home and back again, rather than pulling every weekend. We have many volunteers who care about the organizations

I along with others have spent countless hours, working, promoting, and helping to get our sport in front of as many people as we can. For money, please not a chance. But, for the love of a great sport in which some of my best and most enduring friendships have been derived.

Ray :)

[ferv888ipba]

Mike,
Not just one for the country, but multiples for each area. One in the NE, Midwest, Calif. Fla/Ga.SC,NC.

Pick out the classes that work in your area and run them no matter the category.

USTS will continue to do what they do and it is successful, as the PRO guys want to put on their show. When no USTS race, bring the classes locally in to run with you.

Ray

[Mike Fjeld]

I'm just speaking in very general terms and agree with you completely.

It's diffucult to put on a good show with 3 or 4 boats on the course. I feel it would be much more interesting to consolidate some of the classes and have a larger boat count.

I took my new bride to her first boat race in Ocoee for the nationals and she asked me why there was only 3 boats on the course. I told her that was all of the boats in that class and she then pointed to about 500 other boats that look very simalar and could not understand.

[Miss BK]

New bride? Congrats Mike!!

[Mike Fjeld]

Thanks Val ! and we are having a baby girl Aug. 23 --- and we are moving back to Phoenix soon as this Hurricane goes by

[Ron Hill]

I have been so LOYAL to APBA for so long, that my son LAUGHS AT ME.

Chad Hill sees APBA CLEARLY and I think most people under 30 see it also.....the truth is everything has a life. APBA is way passed a mid life crisis, she is headed toward the big race in the sky.......

You ever seen a guy buy a new radio controlled plane????? Hell, you want to go help him....but it is HIS airplane. And he's going to do it his way!!!! You know the results before he fires the engine....

I have made many suggestes to the APBA BOD, including that they all resign.......I made that suggestion in a seriousness....I've made some very serious suggestions that I think could be at least discussed:

Examples:

Life Time Achievement Award: Five years a go, has never made the BOD's agenda....You know, the worst that could happen is they tell me I'm really a DUMMY, but the BOD VOTED the idea down... NO the IDEA never got discussed.

Fred Hauenstein and I are donating a motor to APBA. I don't want anything in return......but I know there are thousands of people who love boat racing, who have worked for APBA and would be willing to continue to work for APBA...but NO ONE IN APBA is assigned the JOB of telling people THNAKS.....WHY NOT????The budget for the Home Office is about $500,000 and no one is assigned the task of PR??????? The Propeller Magazine might be called PR.......but we need a rea PR PERSON.

A "THANKS" once in a while would be COOL....not just for ME...but for all boat race supporters.


When I WAS OPC CHAIR, I WANTED TO BUY EXTRA PAGES IN THE PROPELLER AND SELL ADVERTISING TO MAKE OPC MONEY. My suggestion (Request) was never dignified with a "SCREW YOU RON", it is a dumb idea.

I donated $300 to APBA Legal Fund.....I NEVER GOT A LETTER EVEN SAYING THEY GOT THE CHECK...I have the cancelled check...

Mike Balzy has had a "CRUISE" and "TOUR OF MERCURY RACING" for about five years. Last year, his Balz to the Wall raised $21,000 for a HOSPITAL. But this year, liability insurance or lack of it, has cancelled Balz to the Wall... I suggested APBA come up with a way of INSURING/SANCTION these type of events.....

But, I have a better IDEA, now. I'm going to go to K and K Insurance and discuss the idea MYSELF...I don't see why someone who wants to have a little "EVENT" or "HAPPENING" has to risk losing his house in a law suit...

Stay tuned...BRF to the rescue BALZY...


ON and ON with APBA......

....Add: I told Charlie Strang and Fred Hauenstein to get $250,000 up front from the OFFSHORE "GROUP", so when they sue us (APBA), we can use their money to defend ourrseves...

I see the problem...it is US!!!! We need to rethink our expectations from BOAT RACING...or We need to commit to working everyday for BOAT RACING...

[Miss BK]

I see several benefits that APBA (and other national or world associations across the globe) bring to this sport. One is standardization and the other is continuity. Establishing a nation-wide set of classes gives greater chance for growth over a larger region - new racers then feel secure in purchasing equipment.

In contrast, when you have multiple organizations making their own rules, you are going to see that wider interest dissolve. I've seen it happen with OB drag racing and other classes that became "regionalized".

But to me, the most important thing a large organization produces is the pooling of safety information. When 100 experienced heads gather to analyze safety, the progress toward safety is accelerated. Being progressive is these areas the only way to see a sport survive in the long term, especially in our modern times where dying while participating in a sport is no longer as accepted as it used to be.

The other tasks that a national organization can produce are taking care of the organizational and administrational duties to produce a real "National" tally.

Marketing the event is a whole other matter. Each race promoter has to attack the marketing job on their own.

Some races need fans. Other races could not care less.

And each race has to decide what kind of race they want: #1 Do they want an income producing event so they can pay their officials some cash and thus, run a tight (and often not-so-fun-for-the-racers) show? #2 Or do they want to focus on the comfort of the racers, and not primarily the comfort (enjoyment) of the fans, and rely on volunteers? Either type of event is fine, and you will find plenty of both type of racers - as long as you have the volunteer resources to continue to produce an event like #2.

I think each racer has to decide what kind of racer he wants to be- or what kind of sport he wants to join. The people conducting the races need to choose what the goals of the events are. Then, each race committee needs to make sure the racers know what kind of performance they are expected to give -- long BEFORE the action begins.

Too often I've seen racers go into shock after they've been fined for holding up the show. They become furious, but only because they don't see the reasoning behind the rules. They don't hear the negative reaction from the crowd - or perhaps don't see it as detrimental to the sport. They are being shortsighted, but still this can cause animosity among their peers.

But if the committee or series has racers sign a contract with all the details about what is what is expected, they should be prepared for some "tough love". That way, if they don't agree with the goals from the start, they can move on and go compete in a different kind of racing.

Anyway - that's just my opinion, and comes from the years involved in this sport, and the years volunteering for "both" kinds of racing.

Just something to think about.

[ferv888ipba]

If you want to see what is wrong in todays boat racing, go look at Hydroracer.net and look at what happened to Matt D's request of registering at Dayton and how 14H responded. Let me put the stick in your eye and then twist it.

We drive enough guys away with our attitudes. I like me first, who do you like?

Ray

[Mike Fjeld]

I must say that it iritates me a little when someone posts, drops names and insults ( right or wrong ) and hides behind a fictious name

GUY--- Who are you???

Your statements mean nothing without your name

[Mark75H]

I must say that it iritates me a little when someone posts, drops names and insults ( right or wrong ) and hides behind a fictious name

GUY--- Who are you???

Your statements mean nothing without your name

True. From the beginning Ron and Ted asked that everyone identify themselves. Members who signed up early got away with not giving their real names. Since March, new members have been required to give their name. There have been numerous threads, announcements and even an email sent to all members earlier this year reminding everyone of this policy.

BRF welcomes different opinions, but if you want to retain your previledge to criticize, you will have to identify yourself.

Note to all:

The forum software we use has an 'ignore list' feature that you can use to completely ignore selected members. If someone really gets you stirred up, I suggest you simply put them on your ignore list and become blissfully oblivious to all their posts. ;)

[Miss BK]

I just got done reading some posts on the other pages and want to reiterate: There is no such thing as "Can't". Not if you have a creative mind. When I hear things like "it will never work" it tells me that someone isn't thinking about the possibilities enough.


I just saw something on the News tonight - it was just another example of when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.


We have a local semi-pro baseball team here called the "Silverhawks". They have a very nice stadium but have been having dismal fan attendance lately. Even with expanded TV commercials, discounted tickets, on-the-field contests, they still can't get the fans to come.

Tonight on the News, they announced that the Silverhawks were having a contest with the many local college Marketing Interns --- they are having a "challenge" between the different schools to see which group of students can bring the most fans to the stadium on their selected nights.

How brilliant is that!? So the Silverhawks are getting TOP NOTCH marketing and publicity from several directions all at once..... and they don't have to spend a penny! The winning marketing kids will get the recognition which will be something to put on their resume.

WHen I was in art school, we students were always being invited to "contests" to design posters and buttons etc. The only reward was recognition for us students, but the event won big! They got a free poster design!

That's the kind of hi-energy thinking that boat racing is currently competing with. So let's get on our toes and come up with strategies of our own so these competing sports won't beat us out.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

One of the sayings my Dad was always telling us kids as we were growing up is, "there ain't no such word as can't"

[mercguy]

If you want to see what is wrong in todays boat racing, go look at Hydroracer.net and look at what happened to Matt D's request of registering at Dayton and how 14H responded. Let me put the stick in your eye and then twist it.

We drive enough guys away with our attitudes. I like me first, who do you like?

Ray

Ed is a very good "stock outboard" leader and I support his response. When do you stop bending the rules???? You think NASCAR would change there policies? :confused:

[ferv888ipba]

Merc guy,
No arguement about the rules. A guy asked for some help, for whatever reason the help is not available. okay I can live with that, but maybe like we do you can pre-register, and clear the entry. All I am saying is the attitude, not the rule, again not the rule, just some thought in a response instead on knee jerk.

Ray

[B VALACHOVIC]

I am trying to reason out where this NASCAR and A.P.B.A.senerio comes from. I must say I do not see it. I myself have said that the Havasu race used to be boat racings Daytona 500 so I am not so innocent in this aspect. I have looked hard and far here, and realize that A.P.B.A. has a lot of similarities with the SCCA -- Sports Car Club Of America. They both have regions, clubs, their own magazine, world championships etc. They also boast over 2000 events a year.They are a Big First Class Association and what they do have is their own disscusion board online rigtht through Sports Car Club Of America ----- hello A.P.B.A.

[Miss BK]

I agree with Bob. It never works to "Follow" .. you need to lead. If we keep looking at NASCAR and trying to be like NASCAR, we are being "Followers". To be sucessful, we must find our own niche and our own style.

Each kind of racing group must find what is successful -- for itself only. This road to success won't be the same for the next guy. He must be unique and discover what is the key for his particular sport. Unlimiteds and Stock Outboards will have to find what brings them success - even though they are both "boat racing", they will each have totally different ingredients to examine and exploit.

If it's "noise" then exploit that "Screaming, wild excitement" to bring in those speed freaks.
If its lack of noise, then exploit that this is a family event "Safe for baby's ears"

Each has a niche.

I just read the Marietta newspaper -- and one man interviewed said he liked the noise, but it was too loud to bring his kids. "Not something for families" he said. Right there I saw a marketing angle for those classes that are too quiet!


Back to whether to follow or lead.....

Open discussion boards are great - if you can be certain that it won't be misused and turn into a negative for the sport. Open boards dont work for everyone.

The APBA website had a discussion room about 6 or 7 years ago, which allowed thousands of people to interact. Because of the large numbers joining the discussions, each night was reserved for a particular category....Sadly, it became a nightmare used mostly for complaints by a handful who dominated the room.

One member had plenty of free time to sling mud about a personal issue he had with one particular board member. Every single day. It was an issue that should have been kept to private e-mail. His intent was to embarrass that person, but was injuring the Association as a whole.

Everytime I went to the chat room, it was impossible to maintain a positive conversation about boat racing, Instead, the room was being used for personal attacks. The constant negative bashing gave me an ill feeling about the state of the sport. After a month or so, it was clear this tool wasn't a positive thing for APBA. I had no involvement with APBA at the time, but knew this wouldn't be around long. Shortly afterward it was abandonded.

A number of other message boards of particular categories have recently shut down for the same reasons. 24-hour dedicated board monitors are great to have, if you can find the people to do it, but they are usually volunteers that report to duty as their own spare time allows. Often, the detrimental messages are sometimes left up far too long. Then, the only solution is to shut the board down.

Some of these groups have started their own "email" chains or yahoo discussion lists - some are by invitation only. They use these private systems to hash out disputes and management issues away from the public eye - they realize that nobody on the outside needs to see this dirty laundry.

I'm sure Biffle and Harvick have a private list somewhere where they can "talk" to each other, away from prying eyes ;)

APBA has an answer too - In place of an open chat room or message boards for APBA members, APBA has the APBA E-alert newsletter, sent by email monthly or twice monthly. The newsletter can be used by any member for many things: To make announcements, relaying correspondence from the chairmen to the members, a way to say "Thanks" to certain volunteers, to feel out how many entries a race can expect, to request cards for an injured racer, to conduct polls, to announce pit parties and pot luck dinners as part of a race or meeting, capsule training info, rule changes - etc.

If you are an APBA member and are not getting the E-alert in your inbox, send an email to APBA Headquarters and ask to be added. Their address is apbahq @ apba-racing.com . Be sure to add news @ apba-racing.com to your "Not spam" folder too.

[B VALACHOVIC]

All racing is good no matter what it is. It's a sport. Some are this some are that --well-- If you are looking for ideas for your own sport Certainly look at others and gather what you can to applly to your's , Just dont make your sport commonplace with theirs. Boat racing is Boat racing and i guarantee if the A.P.B.A. ever disolves that will be the end of it. If you have something that you feel doesnt work now or has problems, and you want to start something else to replace it, you will have the same problems as the first with less orginization. Our American Powerboat Association is not owned by one person or persons , It's all of us members ,including the MEMBERS we ELECT AS OFFICIALS listed on page 2 of the propeller magazine.On page 2 you will find all the Names,Phone #s and addresses of our elected member officials. If you feel something is so that it needs to be addresed Call them. Remember that ONE PERSON ALONE trying to change something NEVER FLIES, it takes a group action to make a difference.

[Ron Hill]

For whatever reasons, I just started getting those APBA E-alerts....

Why don't they contain a monthly article or at least a few articles by BOD Members. So, we'd know what they are doing for Boat Racing... Seems to me, most BOD Members keep a low key approach to the membership.

Some post the link on www.hydroracer.net (http://www.hydroracer.net/) about Matt and Eddie the Chairman's posts...

[Miss BK]

Ron,
That's what the E-alert was orginally designed for -- regular communication from the upper levels (Chairmen mostly). And it is being used this way, but some use it more than others.

[Guy]

I must say that it iritates me a little when someone posts, drops names and insults ( right or wrong ) and hides behind a fictious name

GUY--- Who are you???

Your statements mean nothing without your name


Your absolutely correct mike!

Sorry, I get so focused on what I'm drafting that sometimes I forget to end the post properly. I do try to sign most of my posts and have indeed signed my name in the past here to other posts, just forgot to add it to these recent ones. "Guy" is not a "fictious" name, it IS my name (my father named me after a famous boat racer & supporter, Guy Lombardo).

Guy Conklin
2nd generation racer, and have been envolved with boat racing since I was born (1962), and have been an APBA PRO & Stock member (off and on) since 1972.
Have raced classes to date: ASR, ASH, 20ssH, Formula 350H, RBH, 250ccH, 350ccH.

[Guy]

Each kind of racing group must find what is successful -- for itself only. This road to success won't be the same for the next guy. He must be unique and discover what is the key for his particular sport. Unlimiteds and Stock Outboards will have to find what brings them success - even though they are both "boat racing", they will each have totally different ingredients to examine and exploit.

Val,
I totally agree! Your basically saying the same things that I have said (maybe I just did not make it clear enough in my last posts).

This was precisely one of the reasons of why I said "it will never work". I was referring to one of the plans overall goals, which was basically treating ALL category's "the same". This simply can not be done.
I thought I previously stated pretty clearly of how unique the Offshore environment is to the rest of APBA Category's, and due to this fact, that particular plan's goals indeed "Can't" work for all APBA! BUT, as you said, with some creativity maybe a similar plan could indeed work.



If it's "noise" then exploit that "Screaming, wild excitement" to bring in those speed freaks.
If its lack of noise, then exploit that this is a family event "Safe for baby's ears"

Each has a niche.


Precisly, I said that same thing as well. Boat Racing is a "Niche" type of sport. And this niche is both a good thing AND a bad thing for APBA.
The bad thing is that as being a "niche" type of sport, typically does NOT attract the majority of big dollar support & coverage needed to completely satisfy all its members, sponsors & fans. The key then,as Ray said, is in proper and cost effective promotion.
Which is the good thing about being a niche type of sport. As you said, each category's niche can and should be exploited to its fullest capacity in order to attract the most interest for sponsorships, driver/category growth, growing fan-bases and more TV airtime.



The APBA website had a discussion room about 6 or 7 years ago, which allowed thousands of people to interact. Because of the large numbers joining the discussions, each night was reserved for a particular category....Sadly, it became a nightmare used mostly for complaints by a handful who dominated the room.

One member had plenty of free time to sling mud about a personal issue he had with one particular board member. Every single day. It was an issue that should have been kept to private e-mail. His intent was to embarrass that person, but was injuring the Association as a whole.

Everytime I went to the chat room, it was impossible to maintain a positive conversation about boat racing, Instead, the room was being used for personal attacks. The constant negative bashing gave me an ill feeling about the state of the sport. After a month or so, it was clear this tool wasn't a positive thing for APBA. I had no involvement with APBA at the time, but knew this wouldn't be around long. Shortly afterward it was abandonded.


Yes, I remember that too (as well as many other similar instances in other forum's). Nothing good usually ever came out of those. I seem to recall that (most of the time) the mudslinging and personal & credability attacks was simply due to a particular group of people (alot of times anonymous) not liking another person or group of peoples questions, disagreements or opinions.

My OPINION is...that a person making a responsible statement of a
concern or in support of the sport, or may have a viable question about something (that may raise even further questions), should NOT EVER be ridiculled, shouted down or attacked.
And its not just the internet that empowers the mouth-breathing masses. I have people come up to me at race sites who want to state an opinion, but half the time they won't tell me who they are. Their opinion then has NO impact on me. If you shake my hand and introduce yourself, then I'll hear your opinion and give you all the time I can spare.

I think there is only ONE good thing that did come out of those days of internet attacks, lies, deceipt and corruption,,,
Its now easier and pretty obvious to tell who the people are that are passionate about the ongoing life, success and growth of the sport & APBA, versus those who are passionate about the sport but to only further their own agenda's, financial wealth and ego's.
I'm definetly NOT part of the latter.

Guy

[Ron Hill]

Many know little about MISS BK'S background.....but she has written some of the best tunnel boat articles for Hot Boat, that have ever been written. She's a "BOAT RACER". She doesn't see that size or money makes a difference...

It is for those reasons and others, that I feel MISS BK should be on salary for APBA as a FULL TIME PUBLIC RELATION PERSON... with a reasonable budget to cover events such as.......

BK is smart, she can write and she KNOWS BOAT RACING.....She is busy with kids at home...but, she could work her schedule around HUSBAND and KIDS.....

[Fast Fred]

Seems to ME that, if more racers showed up, and got after it Harder the crowed
would follow, look at top fuel and funny car, just afue hand fulls of cars, thay get all the big sponcership bucks.
as a boat racer i've come to know these words " i am my own best sponcer" :eek: :cool:

[mercguy]

Seems to ME that, if more racers showed up, and got after it Harder the crowed
would follow, look at top fuel and funny car, just afue hand fulls of cars, thay get all the big sponcership bucks.
as a boat racer i've come to know these words " i am my own best sponcer" :eek: :cool:


I agree with you 100% Fred!!!!!! ;)

[mercguy]

You mean the 2 or 3 racers(?) over at http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=SWAMPPIT don't have all the answers? ;)

:D :D :D


come on David, no free advertising here please.......... ;)

[Fast Fred]

hay David,
thare are no points for the class i run, am runin one of them Merc killers thow :eek: the OMC kind :cool:

[mercguy]

hay David,
thare are no points for the class i run, am runin one of them Merc killers thow :eek: the OMC kind :cool:

sheez, what is this world coming too???? :confused:

[Fast Fred]

what can i tell ya, Merc never made a triple that came close to this this one :eek:

[mercguy]

what can i tell ya, Merc never made a triple that came close to this this one :eek:


well Fred, make them do something!!!!!!!! Ya mean the 650/700 Merc triple WAS NOT a good motor...........LOL!!!!!!! :p :p

[RichardKCMo]

hay David,
thare are no points for the class i run, am runin one of them Merc killers thow :eek: the OMC kind :cool:
Fred, what class do you run with that good looking motor?
Richard

[Fast Fred]

I'm runin Superlight Tunnel "X" class, 60ci (1000cc's) or less, 15" shaft :cool:
that about covers it on the rules. :eek:
those Mercs are cool,the hulls we run take alot of grunt to keep them cookin
not sayin those Mercs wouldn't do a good job, but ya get guys with gooned up SST60's and Stingers the Yamaha 52ci, someones even runin a snowsledpowerhead :eek: so thares a vary good chance you would find your self out guned :eek: :cool: with a 700Merc :cool:

[RichardKCMo]

So is this a 56cu in omc? Where are the races?
RichardF

[Fast Fred]

started as a 49ci, with the trick pistons and long rods +.030 over makes it a 50.7ci, thay run in Regions 5,6,1, :cool:

[Ron Hill]

We were talking about DePue 2005....And SAFETY came into the phone conversation...He says capsule are too much trouble...then he mentions Rex Hall's neck inhury...and then Sean McKeen's injuries.....then he lists about four more guys who broke their neck racing Pro...not to mention my Cousin, John Heggenburger, getting 200 stitches in his neck.......at DePue...

Now, NOT all this happened this year.....But I did point out to Dave that Kevin Curtis has been upside down 8 times in his 45 in 10 years, and never been hurt...Kevin raced A Stock Hydro once and almost broke his back...His mom won't let him runa kneeldown boat.

BK, right here, one of the most prolifick boat racing writers in my lifetime, won't let her kids run kneeldowns because she doesn't feel it is safe...Now, if the ones in the know think it isn't safe, what do you think the other 200,000,000 people in this country think???

Daren, you basically been there, done that...with your brother and yourself... What one safety rule would you pass, if you could pass ONE rule???

The readers, other there: What one safety rule would you pass....?

BET: Three years from now, that KID AJ who was hurt at Dayton, will not be racing boats!!!! Any takers???

[Tom Mitchell]

The question concerning safety and capsules reminds me of the dispute many years ago about adding roll cages to the midgets and sprint cars. Since that time most of the drivers lived to collect their social security checks.

Tom

[Mark75H]

BET: Three years from now, that KID AJ who was hurt at Dayton, will not be racing boats!!!! Any takers???

I'll take you on that one ... I know AJ and his dad :D

[David Weaver]

Maybe if that guy in the 45 did not have a capsule, he would drive better and not have flipped 10 times!! There are no reprucutions of a bad decision, so he will continue making them.

I have only seen one driver killed at boat race in my life. It was in a slow OPC class with large boats. I remember the drivers joking about running and bumping. I was on a turn boat and warned them after the first heat about the danger of their driving. They basically told me that was part of it and they were safe in their capsules. And the setting was set for a tragic loss of life in a 65mph class with 600 - 800 pound boats. Capsules cannot overcome shear stupidity everytime it is displayed.

I know a number of people who have raced cars and said that took more chances because they felt "secure". Do not under estimate the danger of a false sense of security in a racing vehicle. It is not full proof.

Ron you speak often of your son playing water polo. A fine sport that I played in college. It is also a violent sport and people get hurt playing it (worse I am aware of is a ruptured spleen). I got hurt more times in water polo and more seriously than in 30 years of boat racing. But I loved the sport and continued playing it until my grades suffered. I am sure that you and your son are aware of the risks of being struck in the head by a hard ball travelling at a 60mph or more after being thrown at point-blank by a boy-man that weighs 210 pounds with 1% body fat. The speedo and little cloth cap do not provide much protection. However, it is a great sport and it is your collective decision to take the risks involved with it.

I cannot argue that the capsules have not prevented injuries in PRO racing. But I can argue that capsules have led to a dramatic decrease in the number of entries in the large PRO classes. As I do not run these classes, I will let the participants decide whether it was worth going from 35 or more 500 hydro's at the nationals to 8 -10 today with 4 finishing in the final heat.

I can understand a person making the decision that open cockpit racing is not for them or their children. Just do not feel that you are in a position to make that decision for everyone else in the sport.

Just my opinion and I welcome yours.

[Fast Fred]

page Sr-1, 1. "Racing is inherently Dangerous"..." the risk ( of getin dead) can not be eliminated and, in fact will allways be present."
seems to make it what it is, the last true contest. :cool:

[Ron Hill]

Our family are big Robbie Gordon fans, for many reason, did you see him hit the wall Saturday night at Fontana??? Without those NEW SAFER BARRIERS, Robbie could have been a statistic like Adam Petty, Dale Earnhardt and Et Al.

My point of this THREAD was to look at ways to make BOAT RACING safer....As long as there is a frigging prop turning on the motor, there will be danger...

I just don't see WHY and for what reason the SIDE DIMENSION taken out of the Rule Book on on outboard runabouts?? AND I see no reason to have a DAGGER hanging out the side being called a fin....

I'll bet over the last 40 years of racing, the average racing life (The time a person stays in the sport) has been double for runabout drivers....as runabout have aways had a better safety record.

I mean, making a "BREAK AWAY" nose piece for a runabout would be a "PIECE OF CAKE".....Some of those new runabout have a nose as pointed as a broom handle...Why don't we have a safety rule for nose pieces?

Walking ain't dangerous, unless it is on the freeway. The old marathons sometimes had 356 starters (Winnebagoland 1954)...No one was injured...skinned knees...D Runabouts were 14 feet long...Many AU's were 11 feet long...

My AU Record was 48.352, in 1957 (24' bottom).....A Runabouts are running what 55 now (36 inch bottoms)..., my boat had 12 sides to protect me, and they did protect me....new A Runabouts don't have side, you get hit in the body in an accident. What Brain Surgeon figured out these rules???

Dave Weaver:

8 spilling a 45 in 10 years, ain't bad, considering:

A. 45 SS is a Stock Class. SO, on a two day weekend, you run four five to seven lap heats in 45 SS
B. On any race weekend, SST 45 runs two, ten lap qualifiers and a 25 lap final (each day)..
C. The Formula Lights average 15 boats per race and they all run together on an approx. 35 second course for SST 45...

Chad got 57 laps in, at Bakersfield, this spring with one boat and one engine...Take that by ten races a year for ten years....Hell, I turned over 10 times in one year (1967...but I raced every class at every race)...And sometimes, the driver I was talking about ran more the 15 races trying for High Point. The person I said had been upside down 8 times, is the current 45 SS National Champion.

57 laps time ten races 570 laps, times ten years, 5700 laps and only 8 crashes?????

That's probably more laps than all the Stock Racers (West of the Mississippi) in kneel downers have run in the last ten years...Well, I might be off on that one!

[Doug McAlarney]

Yes, boat racing is dangerous, and those who race know this. As some one who recently broke his leg in an OSY accident I sure do. The best that can be done is minimize the danger, but it cannot ever be eliminated. Not all speed releated, since my accident was in the starting shute going about 35 mph. the front of my boat has since been painted "Safety Red". I am sure I will stand out in the future.

As for the shrinking ranks, I think it has more to do with jet skis and wave runners. A person interested in kneel downs has a choice. Plus jet skis can be turned over. They flip back up and come back.

A bigger reason for shrinking ranks is probably the fact that most people can walk into a motor cycle dealership and buy a jet ski by financing the $5,000 to $8,000. In our sport, I had to plunk down over $5,000 in cash to get on the water. Hopefully the new Hot Rods will be able to be purchased on a finance plan. I think that would help a lot. Most Americans live on credit these days, our economy is designed for us to do so. Boat racing manufactures should look into doing so.