DeSilva brothers

[Mark75H]

I was surprised some time back when I learned that Bill and Ralph were not the originators of the famous DeSilva raceboat line, but followed in the footsteps of their father, John DeSilva.


Again, on another forum, someone who should know better says DeSilva of California has no connection with DeSilva of Georgia. As yet no one has corrected him.


It would be great if someone who is close to Ralph could ask him a few details about his dad and when he started building boats ... maybe if John ever raced, where and when ... and if Bill and Ralph ever raced themselves as well.

Ralph and Bill probably built more raced boats than perhaps any other builder other than perhaps Jacoby.


If someone has a picture of a very early DeSilva ... 1930's or 40's I'd like to see it. I might already have pictures of them and not know it.

[david bryan]

I was surprised some time back when I learned that Bill and Ralph were not the originators of the famous DeSilva raceboat line, but followed in the footsteps of their father, John DeSilva.


Again, on another forum, someone who should know better says DeSilva of California has no connection with DeSilva of Georgia. As yet no one has corrected him.


It would be great if someone who is close to Ralph could ask him a few details about his dad and when he started building boats ... maybe if John ever raced, where and when ... and if Bill and Ralph ever raced themselves as well.

Ralph and Bill probably built more raced boats than perhaps any other builder other than perhaps Jacoby.


If someone has a picture of a very early DeSilva ... 1930's or 40's I'd like to see it. I might already have pictures of them and not know it.
i have know en Ralph Silva for over 50 years he will be 90 years old in June of 2011 i am building him some propellers for his speedy twin and pr to run at depue this year Ralph sill building a few boats a year stock and alky there is only one DE Silva brothers that built boats in ca and Georgia yes John De Silva did build race boats both inboards and out board but not his full time job i am not much of a typer so this is a short story but if you send me a email adress i do have a pichure of a early de Siva runabout or call me sat. @509 844 7751

[brichter]

There was a beautiflul DeSilva tunnel hull that was campaigned in MOD 90 Class in the Mid 70s by a driver from Michigan. The boat was like a piece of fine furniture. I had some pictures but can't seem to locate them. If anyone knows of this hull and has pictures of it, please post them.

[david bryan]

this De Silva boat is still around the guy wants $ 1000.00 dollars for it

[Mark75H]

Unless I had a motor begging for that particular model, I'd have a hard time paying that much for a skeleton like that ... others' opinions may differ.

[david bryan]

Sam if you would like to talk to Ralph De Silva his ph # is 770 943 9494 but he won't answer the phone after 7 pm and he is getting hard of hearing so speak up

[bill boyes]

this De Silva boat is still around the guy wants $ 1000.00 dollars for itLooks like a pre 1955. look on the keel and transom for a number.

[Mark75H]

Can't be too much before 1955 or it would have dual cockpit

[bill boyes]

Not true!!

[Mark75H]

Bill, what class would this have been for?

[bill boyes]

Most likely a C service or C racing runabout.

[Mark75H]

That makes sense, and you would be right, it doesn't need a forward cockpit to be before 55

[bill boyes]

Stocks needed the forward cockpit with a seat. Alky's did not.

[bill boyes]

Triva
Bill and Ralph built a design for a Pro Runabout.It was deemed not legal by the then Pro Commission. The brothers named the boat after the Pro Commissioner who was behind the drive to outlaw the boat.
What was the boat name and who was the Commissioner?
I forgot the facts so I will ask Ralph.

[Danny Pigott]

I remember when that happened, seems to me the boat had lifting rails to pick it up by.The Pro Comm. called them air traps, De'Silva called them lifting rails. When this boat was not allowed to run, i was told it kind of knocked the wind out of there sails.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I think Ed Thrilby was the force behind the proposed banning of the boat after the PRO Commission had approved it the previous winter meeting. I seem to remember a petition that was gotten together for that purpose. Don't have any idea how many signatures it got.

The only name I ever heard it called was the "Delta Runabout". Never heard the story about being named after anyone specific but would like to hear the story. Obscure facts like this make any history of anything interesting, especially our sport.

Todd Brinkman Jr. has one hanging in the rafters of his business, B&B Electric. It was run just a few times, probably not more than a half dozen, and I don't believe it was ever raced in anger, just tested. His comment at the time and again many years later (just a couple of months ago when we were talking about it) was that it was absolutely no faster than a standard boat that they were building, but was MUCH safer to drive, and had almost none of the bad habits that existing runabouts of the time had running the speeds that were becoming common place because of advancements in engine design. Speeds were approaching and exceeding 90MPH with the 500 and 750 engines of the day, and folks were either getting hurt and quitting or just quitting before they busted their butts.

I remember that the DeSilva's were very disappointed and frustrated with the decision to overturn a decision that had been made previously by the Commission and ban the boat after the previous approval. Several had been built and sold and those purchases were made worthless by this action, especially as the reason for the design and seeking approval for it was primarily for safety reasons. I also seem to remember that the DeSilva's did not build any or very few strictly PRO runabouts for anything except the Antique classes after that as they felt the decision to ban the boat was ill-advised and not good for the sport. Can't say I blame them as I would have been plenty upset myself. In fact almost the very same thing happened, with some of the same folks involved, with the "Radio Rule" just a few years ago.

Fortunately, Ken Krier came along a couple of years later with a newer design that accomplished making the runabout classes much safer, and did not change the bottom of the boats as radically, and in the opinion of some, saved the 500 engine class as an enclosed cockpit was not required for Runabouts along with the associated cost of that device.

[Mark75H]

Yes, safety was their goal with that design. It was raced everywhere except the US.

I can imagine being very disappointed if I spent a lot of time, effort and material on a safety design improvement and it was turned down ... especially if there were no other manufacturers offering any safety design improvements.

[Steve Litzell]

I think Ed Thrilby was the force behind the proposed banning of the boat after the PRO Commission had approved it the previous winter meeting. I seem to remember a petition that was gotten together for that purpose. Don't have any idea how many signatures it got.

The only name I ever heard it called was the "Delta Runabout". Never heard the story about being named after anyone specific but would like to hear the story. Obscure facts like this make any history of anything interesting, especially our sport.

Todd Brinkman Jr. has one hanging in the rafters of his business, B&B Electric. It was run just a few times, probably not more than a half dozen, and I don't believe it was ever raced in anger, just tested. His comment at the time and again many years later (just a couple of months ago when we were talking about it) was that it was absolutely no faster than a standard boat that they were building, but was MUCH safer to drive, and had almost none of the bad habits that existing runabouts of the time had running the speeds that were becoming common place because of advancements in engine design. Speeds were approaching and exceeding 90MPH with the 500 and 750 engines of the day, and folks were either getting hurt and quitting or just quitting before they busted their butts.

I remember that the DeSilva's were very disappointed and frustrated with the decision to overturn a decision that had been made previously by the Commission and ban the boat after the previous approval. Several had been built and sold and those purchases were made worthless by this action, especially as the reason for the design and seeking approval for it was primarily for safety reasons. I also seem to remember that the DeSilva's did not build any or very few strictly PRO runabouts for anything except the Antique classes after that as they felt the decision to ban the boat was ill-advised and not good for the sport. Can't say I blame them as I would have been plenty upset myself. In fact almost the very same thing happened, with some of the same folks involved, with the "Radio Rule" just a few years ago.

Fortunately, Ken Krier came along a couple of years later with a newer design that accomplished making the runabout classes much safer, and did not change the bottom of the boats as radically, and in the opinion of some, saved the 500 engine class as an enclosed cockpit was not required for Runabouts along with the associated cost of that device.

Question was who was the commission member that did not like the "Lift rails". It was Homer Kincade (SP) and the boat was the KR Runabout or Kincades Revenge as I always was told. The boat Bill Van was talking about was from a loose rule book at the time regarding runabouts. I tested a boat for the DeSilvas that was to be for the New 45SS class. After a couple of drinks with Ralph Donald, I pointed out that this tri hull type design was a legal Runabout according to the rules at the time. I wanted to run this boat through the traps at Morehaven Fla that year as a CRR ( 500 runabout) and Ralph and Bill Desilva aske us not to as they were making a boat for this that would not upset the natives so much. bruce Nicholson was the guy with the protest/ petition going around. In retrospect I should of said screw it and run the thing through the traps as at the time i was reading a 100+ MPH before the boat that Bill Van was talking about. Anyway, the answer is KR. Steve:)

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I had the wrong boat, but I'm pretty sure about the story surrounding the "Delta Runabout", the one I did reference. Looks as though the DeSilva's were not strangers to controversy, as is generally the rule when something is introduced that a lot of folks think might hurt the value of their past investment, no matter the reason (safety).

Steve, I'm glad you chimed in. I never knew before now there was a "story" about the KR Runabout, and it's introduction.

After all these years, it is hard not to appreciate the irony of that story, if Bruce was with one with the petition. I seem to remember he had the one of the first ones, or at least the first one that I can remember , and was unbeatable for a number of years with it.

It (77T) probably had one of the longest winning records of any runabout based on the number of years it was raced, as it won races for a very long time, probably several decades. Do you still have it??

ADD: I think the reason I was thinking about the Delta was because of the term "lift rails" If you ever saw a Delta, especially from the back, you would certainly think of that term if it were used about describing the looks of that runabout. I always thought it looked more like an OPC Mod VP Class boat than anything else, but of course much smaller.

[bill boyes]

Steve is correct, I kinda got my facts crossed in search of a good story.
Let me point out that Ralph is still ticked off about the Delta and has not but built a few Pro runabouts since. Best not to even bring the Delta up with him.

[Steve Litzell]

I had the wrong boat, but I'm pretty sure about the story surrounding the "Delta Runabout", the one I did reference. Looks as though the DeSilva's were not strangers to controversy, as is generally the rule when something is introduced that a lot of folks think might hurt the value of their past investment, no matter the reason (safety).

Steve, I'm glad you chimed in. I never knew before now there was a "story" about the KR Runabout, and it's introduction.

After all these years, it is hard not to appreciate the irony of that story, if Bruce was with one with the petition. I seem to remember he had the one of the first ones, or at least the first one that I can remember , and was unbeatable for a number of years with it.

It (77T) probably had one of the longest winning records of any runabout based on the number of years it was raced, as it won races for a very long time, probably several decades. Do you still have it??

ADD: I think the reason I was thinking about the Delta was because of the term "lift rails" If you ever saw a Delta, especially from the back, you would certainly think of that term if it were used about describing the looks of that runabout. I always thought it looked more like an OPC Mod VP Class boat than anything else, but of course much smaller.

Hi Bill, yes the first KR that bruce and Raymond Jefferies bought together is back in Texas. Miss laurie was a great boat that won most of D runabout ( 700) championships since new. ( 1976 to 1986) the last year d was run. This boat was good with a B or a C but really was great with a D at the time. I'm very proud to be just another driver to win a championship driving this boat for Bruce along with a List of other greats. Bruce, Raymond, (I think) Wyatt Nelson, Tom Kirts Sr,. I know it looked good on my resume` as i won a lot with this boat and the Toyota motor. Even used it in F, ( 1100). I believe that this boat is the winningest boat made to date. it has a very rich history that I'm very proud to be a part of. The first semi delta boat was owned by Pete Voss. It had the delta slot on the outside only and then came the true delta. I think the semi Delta was the boat i tested for DeSilvas and OMC with a 45 motor at Lake Hamilton in the mid 80's. The OMC guy's did not like it much because it was faster than what they had for a Hydro and i could out turn the air trapper guy's that day. Gee i would like to be 30 again! Steve:D

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

After talking with Todd Jr. last nite, I found I was mistaken about a couple of facts with the boat he still has in his rafters. In addition to the testing I spoke about, it was raced 2-3 times before being banned by the action of the PRO Commission in the "re-look" posted about earlier. It was raced at the Nationals in 87 before being declared illegal after first being approved. Todd indicated it was running very well and he thought he had a good shot at the Championship but was forced into a bouy in a corner and was either disqualified or did not finish the heat. It was also blown over at a USTS race in Fulton NY the same year, but we had to cut the phone call short and I did not get the particulars on the accident. I assume it was with a 500CC engine as USTS was not running 700 Runabout at that time I don't think. It might have been the 4 cyl Yamaha owned by Kay Harrison. I was not at the race in Fulton for reasons I can't remember.

Jack Kugler did win the 250 Runabout Nationals the same year with a Delta, but it was not the same boat that Todd has. I'm glad Bill Boyes brought this subject up as some facts have come out that are a big part of the history of DeSilva Boats, and also the PRO Category.

[Lee Sutter]

Hi Guys,
Great Stories about Bill and Ralph DeSilva. Great guys. Does anyone have pictures of the Delta. I raced a 250CC Runabout DeSilva (12'6") Konig combination until 1975 and never heard this story.Why was it outlawed?
Thanks, Lee

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Hi Lee:

At least one picture of the Delta runabout appeared in a thread here on BRF within the last year or so. It (the picture) was taken of one that I seem to remember was on a "boat lift" on a lake somewhere. The boat in question had been purchased by someone as I think a "lake racer" and the owner was asking some questions about it regards where it came from, what it had been used for, etc. You might try using the search feature here and type in Delta Runabout and see what you get. The thread might have possibly appeared in the "see my boat" forum or whatever that is called that appears on the forum information page. Sorry I can't be of more help. As per my description in a previous post, it reminded me very much of a small MOD VP boat with a center pod running surface, with a tunnel on either side of that. The two tunnels were in the shape of an inverted V. Since the Greek alphabet symbol for "Delta" is an inverted V, perhaps that is where the name came from. I have no personal knowledge of that as fact, just an assumption on my part, and you know how they spell "assume".

As to why the boat was banned after being initially approved by the PRO Commission, I was not privy to all the going's on during that time, as that was after my time on the commission. I do not know for sure just what the reason was for the "reconsideration and banning" after the initial approval, but since Kugler won a Nationals with it, it had to have been legal at that time, and as I am sure you know as well as anyone with your and Ron Anderson's friendship and motor builder association, if you have something that allows you to win or do well, that is often considered an unfair advantage, especially if there are only a very few others around. As I am sure you remember, the DeSilva's built boats like most racing boat builders do, one at a time, and there was often a wait for newer models. The person who took the risk with a new design, also took a chance that it would not be successful, and if it was, also bore the brunt of jealously or whatever else you might want to call it if everyone else did not have one also. As I recounted in a previous post, one of the drivers who took that risk, says to this day there was no speed advantage to the boat, only that it was much safer.

As mentioned, I was not privy to all that went on during that time, but having the benefit of listening to others who have recounted the story that were, and also knowing and having experienced some of (IMHO) the shortsightedness of those that were involved in that episode, and others since, I am confident I am very close to the actual happenings in the banning of the boat. There is a certain mindset in some folks that precludes anything new for whatever reason. It is sad when they have or get the power to influence others to vote to advance their own agenda and prejudice's, when it can impact the safety of racing or increase cost to participate by those who can least afford it, and consequently affect the number of people that now participate in our sport.

All that being said, that is the way a "democratic" racing organization works, and consequently one of the very reasons we find ourselves in the situation we are. Sometimes a "benevolent dictatorship" is a better way to go and I think that might be best for boat racing, at least with the present circumstances we find ourselves in.

ADD: Perhaps if Sam Cullis sees this post he may remember where the picture is. I think I remember he had some input on that thread.

[Jeff Lytle]

Here you go Lee:

[Lil Stinker]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7713&highlight=DeSilva

[Tim Weber]

Why the name Delta?

A triangle, which is used in math and science terminology, means change.

Yes, it was a change.

Tim

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Tim:

Thanks for the clarification/explanation about the name "Delta". Every little bit of information that can be added about the history of PRO racing is great and very helpful.

There was another boat built by the DeSilva's in a similar time frame to the Delta, only this was a hydro campaigned by Ron Schrilla (SP) from the New England area. It looked like a runabout from the standpoint of having a "pointy nose" but also had sponsons that were outside of the cockpit sides but only were about 2/3 the length of the total boat. Someone also had an unlimited boat that looked very similar several years ago, and that boat had a very public moment when it blew over on National TV and then just kind of "flopped" back down on the water right side up.

Unfortunately the Schrilla boat suffered the same fate at a USTS race in upstate New York. I think it was being run with either a 500 or 700 engine on it, and I am not sure about what happened to cause the blowover, but Ron did not race the boat again after that I don't believe. I don't remember what the bottom of the boat looked like, whether it was similar to the Delta, or had a conventional bottom with the sponsons ending at only approximately 2/3rds the length of the boat. It also looked small insofar as sponson length for the motor/HP being used on it. Whether it was actually overpowered for its size, and that was the cause of the blowover, I have no idea.

The DeSilva's were certainly not afraid to try new things, and those kinds of innovators are hard to come by when they risk their time, money, and reputation to build something that hopefully is safer and better. I can certainly understand the attitude about not building anymore PRO boats after what happened when the boat was initially approved a by the legally voted in Commission, and then that decision was overturned after boats had been built, sold, and raced, based on the feelings and attitudes of a small group of people after only one racing season. Especially as noted in an earlier thread about this boat and the PRO category, that the category is the place for innovation.

[Lee Sutter]

Thanks for all the information. It's a shame that this was approved and then revoked after it won some races. I don't blame the DeSilva brothers for being upset. On the other hand, I think it's an air packing tunnel with some kind of sponson/step up front. I don't know what the rules were during that period, but the commission must have seen something legal to approve the design. Maybe, it was the right direction for the Pro runabouts - especially with all the power they had.
I alway thought they should have allowed (even today) a small step in the Pro runabout boats to help eliminate them from sticking to the water. This might cut have back on the blowovers.
Thanks, Lee

[Ron Hill]

The Yamato 80 was brought over here in 1976.....35 years ago. The motor is still running today......The number of people that have raced a Yamato is probably triple the current number of boat racers in America...........it is an OLD MOTOR but a good motor and a new 302 Yamato can be purchased for $2,200.....A BMX racing bike can cost that much.

So why aren't more people racing boats....In 1976 finding smooth water lakes was real tough, today, it is close to impossible.

I attended a water Ski race the other day. They race three heats per day. 30 minute Novice Marathon....20 plus boats raced.. Second race was a 40 minute Woman's Marathon. And the final race was 40 minute Men's Marathon. They raced on a lake that was NOT closed to the public. Water Ski Racer's skis are about as long as a C Hydro....

They started at 10. Finished at 2. They all, 50 or more boats, seemed to be having a great time. Nice boat, nice trailers, nice motor homes...nice bar-b-ques....

To my point. The DeSilva Delta is nothing more than a MOD VP bottom. A Mod VP boat can and has raced in the open ocean. The Delta DeSilva would have opened up hundreds of places to race that are considered too rough.

A stock Yamato on a "REGULAR" runabout needs water with less than 6 inch chop and no rollers....A Delta could probably go over 12 inch chop and two foot rollers.... Like many things, AHEAD of its time...

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

it was approved by a Commission before one racing season. I wonder if the Commission that
then took that approval away was the subsequent Commission from the next election. In other words enough different members who might not have approved it the first time and were elected to the subsequent Commission just for that purpose. As previously stated, I know there were petitions, etc., for ban it after initial approval. The next natural step if that did not work would be to change the Commission enough to get it done that way.

I have given all my old rule books away so have no reference anymore to see who was on the 86/87 Commission versus the next one. That might tell a lot about the situation to know all the personalities involved, if anyone is still that interested.

[A/B Speedliner]

While visiting Harry Brinkmans stoage building a few years ago I took these pictures of two boats I was told were DeSilvas. They were brand new and at that time were for sale. I do not know if Mike Brinkman still has them or if they were sold.
David

[Mark75H]

Delta also means 3 ... I thought delta referred to the 3 running surfaces.

I have a 12 ft Delta tunnel. Ron is right it can be run in water significantly rougher than is normally raced. 12 inch chop definitely ... maybe 18" rollers, not sure it would be really race-able in 2 foot rollers ... but unlike "regular" race boats, it wouldn't be in danger of sinking in 2 foot rollers.

My boat was the prototype given to Karl Williams to try with the antique classes. Karl and his son said they felt it had good straight line capability, but the front step on that particular boat was too tall and limited its turning ability.

I only ran it at one short course race and confirmed its speed (a very good 75+ at Denton MD) and poor turning. It also made an unacceptably big wake. I have altered it for better turning, but not yet for the wake problem. I am certain my boat's bottom differs from these significantly and my boat's poor handling are not characteristics shared with the rest.

[Jeff Lytle]

I took these pictures of two boats I was told were DeSilvas.

One cannot mistake the lines and beautiful craftmanship of a DeSilva Runabout........I owned and ran two during my racing career. I always thought the way they made the cowlings was kinda' cool. They are made from single sided corragated cardboard, with a light glass covering. You can see the cardboard color in the pic on both boats. If you look under the cowling, you can see the corragated side of the cardboard as well.

[1100r]

I agree they were very nicely built boats. I had 3 of them including one that also had a tunnel. The tunnel was not as severe as the one in the picture of the stock boat. Unfortunately I dnt have a picture of the bottom and I no longer have the boat. I raced it at Yelm Washington where I set a record with it in FER back in the late 80's or early 90's. At inspection the boat was deemed illegal due to the bottom and was put in the Mod Technical Manuel there after not sure if its still there or not. I did have the tunnel filled did not see any difference.

I would also like to know if anyone would knows what KR stood for have heard many stories all different.

[Ron Hill]

Seems I once knew...

Here are a few pictures of MOD VP bottoms.

[bill boyes]

I agree they were very nicely built boats. I had 3 of them including one that also had a tunnel. The tunnel was not as severe as the one in the picture of the stock boat. Unfortunately I dnt have a picture of the bottom and I no longer have the boat. I raced it at Yelm Washington where I set a record with it in FER back in the late 80's or early 90's. At inspection the boat was deemed illegal due to the bottom and was put in the Mod Technical Manuel there after not sure if its still there or not. I did have the tunnel filled did not see any difference.

I would also like to know if anyone would knows what KR stood for have heard many stories all different. Kincades Revenge

[Ron Hill]

Revenge....More details needed here!

WAS HOMER ALKY VP AT THE TIME???

[bill boyes]

Revenge....More details needed here!

WAS HOMER ALKY VP AT THE TIME??? Could be. something to do with lifting rails?

[Steve Litzell]

Revenge....More details needed here!

WAS HOMER ALKY VP AT THE TIME???

At The time around 1972/73, the flat deck boats would take to the sky for no real good reason, The bigger the motor the more this would happen. The rules were relaxed if you will to allow the sides of the boat to be narrowed and brought in at the top deck lines. With a cowl added it was thought that the down force at the cowl and because the sides were brought in. The boat would stay on the water. It did. The lift rails as they were called were also used on some of the later flat deckers but the flat deckers still would shoot for the moon at good speeds. When bruce got the first KR it was proven that this was the way to go as "Miss Laurie" was the Cadilac that it looked and was faster around the race course. Seems that Homer got his boxers in a major bunch as he thought a runabout should hold the lines like the antique boats. After much talk, ( screaming and crying on Homer's part) it was voted to allow this "new type of runabout" and the name KR as in Kincade revenge was born. That's as I was told. Still a major breakthrough for us, and made runabout racing safer for us all. Seems natural that what Mike Krier made in the mid eighties that looked like a stealth fighter, was still again a major improvement on our boats. The Delta also would of been interesting to shake out if it were not for a few nay sayers. Steve:D

[Lee Sutter]

This is really neat stuff.
So, the DeSilva brothers put the Delta on the bottom with a traditional runabout deck and Krier put the Delta to the deck with a traditional bottom. Did the rules in the early 70's allow cowlings and turned in sides? They did in Stock Runabouts.
Lee

[Steve Litzell]

This is really neat stuff.
So, the DeSilva brothers put the Delta on the bottom with a traditional runabout deck and Krier put the Delta to the deck with a traditional bottom. Did the rules in the early 70's allow cowlings and turned in sides? They did in Stock Runabouts.
Lee

Hi Lee, Yes that is the relaxing of the rules i was talking about. Pro boats went first then the stocks. Steve

[Tim Weber]

The KR means Kinkaids Responsiblity, got it straight from Ralph.

Tim