Troops overseas might not be paid is a LIE

[Mark75H]

There is money currently in the treasury to send out SS checks and military paychecks for months ... provided tiddley wink inspectors, EPA auditors, and astronaut training review book proof readers are not placed in front of them ... the only reason SS and military checks would not be sent out on time is ... Obama makes the decision to screw them over someone else.

Even Obama is not that stupid,

............................ but he thinks you might be, that's why he had his henchmen start the rumor

Do not fall for it and call your congress critters telling them how bad we need to spend more money for things the government can't afford.

[Moneypit]

obama not that stupid? Well, he came on national TV and said exactly that, so I guess he is that stupid... How about we scream loud enough to make the Senate and that crook Harry Raid pass a bill to REPAY SS every dime they've stolen since they passed the bill to put SS money in the general fund?..."No checks", "Global Warming", "Oil spills", "Recovering economy", does he really think WE'RE that stupid.... obama, Raid, and Paloser have to go....
Ray

[Mark75H]

He is not that stupid ... he is testing to see if you are.

If you believe it, he has one check in his "good" column

Cutting military pay or not paying troops overseas would cause mutiny, he knows that. Saying that he will if you don't tell your congress critters to vote for new taxes ... that's his plan, not the actual cut.


DO NOT FALL FOR IT!

[Skoontz]

Had an intelligent conversation with a liberoid over the weekend
....All went well until she said we should get rid of the military because thats another form of government welfare....Thats when I concluded if someone is a liberal, they are incapable of carrying on an intelligent conversation, unlike old school democrats such as Zel Miller, or Scoop Jackson, or even John F Kennedy. We have 40 years or more of public school cirriculum indoctrination to overcome....

[Mark75H]

At our current level of spending it is welfare for the defense industry, just like too big to fail was welfare for banks. Its not just liberals, its both sides being owned by industry. Obamacare is the biggest gift the insurance industry ever got, the bank/investment company bailout started under Bush and continues at a magnified pace. This link up of big business and big government failed in Europe 60 years ago as it is certain to fail here.

How many countries have more than 1 aircraft carrier? Look it up.

We need a military to defend this country, not to run others at our whim.

[Original Looper 1]

Bravo Sam!

On this issue, I give you a 1000 points of light.

A 10 year war on terrorism while our borders to the North and South are practically wide open! LOL! :D How stupid do they think we are? Apparently, pretty stupid, as we've watched our brothers and sisters in the middle class be economically obliterated over the past 40 years by Wall Street and the Congressional prostitutes.

As always, follow the money and leave the theater to Hollywood where it really belongs.


Regards,

Paul


PS: What these global predators want is a totalitarian, global, corporate feudalism, ie no resistance or obstruction from the working/middle classes. The way they are selling it is with "Libertarian" window dressing. But behind the curtain, the devil is in the (deregulation) details.

[Mark75H]

The wonderful New Consumer Protection Act ... if you read the details of the new regulations and laws ... its practically illegal for any small or medium business to offer direct credit to their customers anymore. You almost HAVE to go thru a bank.

This isn't consumer protection, its banking industry protection.

I want it to be illegal for you or your handyman to replace your furnace or AC filters so I can make more money. I want people to be arrested in the parking lots of Home Depot and Lowes if they are seen carrying air filters. Might be a good idea for you to have a government controlled lock box over your thermostat so only "qualified" technicians can make adjustments.

Makes just as much sense.

[aleconthelake]

Sorry you guys but The american people are getting stupid and very very hoodwinked. We better wake up..QUICK! Let the libs and cry baby's take our guns away and watch how fast we have no freedom at all. I have a different perspective then a lot of people. I did 23 years in the military and have lived/travelled all over the world. I have spent time in totalitarian countries. Our founding fathers are rolling in thier graves seeing what is happening in this country. Just a little historical fact, in 1963 Nikita Kruschev told Kennedy(during the Cuban Missle Crisis Talks) that we may beat him militarily but he would beat us through our own education system.Its happening! Look very closely at the state of this country and the state of our industry. In the former communist countries the "elite" had everything, look at whats left of any of our big companies, other than maybe GE and a very few others they are run just like the old communist regimes. They maybe running into the ground but there ceo's get multi million dolar bonuses...etc. Our educational instittions are run by bleeding heart liberal creeps that dont give a damn about our country and delight in teaching there students how bad the united states is. I have seen American people behave overseas in such a manner that is absolutely disgusting. In general this country and especially our so called "leaders" need a good general *** whippin. In a nutshell our founding fathers designed our government to be there for and to be run by the people. Our govermment thinks The people are there for the government! WRONG ANSWER! I could go on for hours on this subject. Just one other thing, And this is going to make you whiny little liberals out there nuts, read what it says on the statue of liberty and truly understand what it means "give me your tied your poor and your oppressed" (Not in an illegal sneaky manner either!) Now the part that will make you liberals crazy! history is going to prove George Bush correct in what he did in Iraq (and yes I am a Persian Gulf war vet) I spent a lot of mid watches with a Saudi navy officer and had a lot of conversations with him. he basically told me If a stable democracy ever gets set up in the Middle east all the little principalities and dictatorships over ther are going to topple like dominoes. Well look at the recent events in the middle east over the last 8 months or so. Now read carefully What is said on the statue of liberty does not apply to this country it applies to all people the world over regular people the world over deserve the ideals and priciples that our founding fathers set forth. I better get off this soap box. Bottom line is this, I ove this country , what it stands and what it was founded on but i hate the bunch of sluts and *****s the goverment of this country has become

[Mark75H]

I have seen American people behave overseas in such a manner that is absolutely disgusting.

Burdick and Lederer wrote about this back in the 1950's, it has been an ongoing problem, not new to this generation or the one before it.

When I went to Russia back in the 90's I took effort not to appear too American and was usually addressed in French or German by waiters etc. Other Americans traveling at the same time stuck out like sore thumbs by their gaudy clothes and manners.

In Delaware the locals use the portmanteau "touron" for tourist/moron

[aleconthelake]

"touron" Thats good! I caused quite a ruckus at Nue Schwanstein in Bavaria because of misbehaving American's, The local's thanked me after.....

[aleconthelake]

Cant help it, One other thing and it has to do with why our military is and should be kept strong. It has to do with basic human nature. There is and always will be someone out there who thinks its ok to pick on or oppress the little guy the guy who cant fight back. It goes on until somebody bigger and badder but with a true heart stands up for the little guy. Sorry, but wether you people like it or not we are the biggest and baddest guy on the block. This country tried to deny that through "isolationist" policies inthe past and it it almost got our butts kicked for us royally...TWICE. Yes our government has screwed up .. a lot! over the last 50 years but bottom line we ae still the baddest on the block and we need to look out for the tired oppressed and poor all over the world. We may not like it as a people we may not want it. But for you people who have never been any place or have just seen what the goverment of other places want you to see. There are still a lot of people in foriegn places with a little education who know what this country was founded on who look at us like a giant white knight. Regular people over seas KNOW what the American dream is and they yearn for it. When you are over seas a little humility goes a long long way.

[Mark75H]

Why do we usually support those governments?

Do we need 11 aircraft carriers to do this? (Russia, China, England, France, Thailand, Brazil and India have one each, Spain and Italy sort of have 2 each). We have as many as all the rest of the world combined. This is the current US military style ... to be as armed as the entire rest of the world combined and that is still not enough.

As Eisenhower warned this is very expensive ... is Eisenhower's advice bad?

[aleconthelake]

probably not but being as we are getting to the point where we dont make anything in this country anymore maybe we should just use them 1 or 2 at a time.... I think we can agree that this country is in a major mess. God, just to have one politician with an ounce of integrity and a modicum of leadership skills who really cares about the people and the country.... Somebody who has balls enough to slap the industrial greed monsters into line... A good ego maniac like Patton for just a couple years! LOL

[aleconthelake]

As far as why do we support those governments?dont know the answer to that. I mean look what we are doing in the middle east right now! we are supporting everybody including hamas! I mean if you get right down to it, Look at Viet Nam! We supported the most corrupt puppet goverment in history! The worst part of that is, Ho Chi Minh came to us for help before Dien bien Phu! he was harvard educated! We Turned him down because he has "communist leanings!" and where did he get that? HARVARD! makes you wonder what would have happened if we had backed him.. Gee the French might have got more pissed at us..... WAAAAAAAA

[aleconthelake]

same way with this middle east mess! I hear so many people ask why the arabs hate us so much... Everybody thinks oh it s Isreal.... WWRONG! Thats a side issue! The other excuse,,oh its big oil and corporate greed aaaaaaaggggghhh! Wrong again! another side issue! They just add fuel to the fire! This is one of the issue that saudi Naval Officer and I discussed. He was actually pretty cool, very candid and very well educated. I asked him point blank why they hate us so much one night. It goes much deeper than those other two issues and back to something that happened long before either one of those issues existed.... It ties in with what i was saying about the rest of the world wanting the american dream and it dates back to the first world war and the aftermath. Before ww1 the whole middle east was basically tribal and colonized by several different european countries. lawrence of Arabia united many of the tribes to stand against the Turks (who were allied with germany and the Austro/hungarian empire) He led them to believe that after the war they would be independant and that the americans wouldnt let the europeans back in.. Well what happened at the end of the war? Once again we didnt finish the job we kissed the collective european butts and didnt stand up for the little guy they despise us for it. I thnk the question should be why does our leaders keep kow towing to the europeans? If you get right down to it what have they ever done for us? Do we really need them? Hum,mmmmmnnn really makes you wonder if deep down under all this BS does this all boil down to your basic race issue???? hummmmnnn thats food for thought

[Mark75H]

Ho was an ally during WWII, but I do not think he had a US education

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

Then we can close the bases in Europe and bring hundreds of thousands of troops home. Cheaper to have them on unemployment at home than in Germany

[aleconthelake]

I forget what I read it in now, I have Viet namese history book at the house, It might have been that. but I read it somewhere that he was harvard educated. have never really researched it. Still it basically boils down to the fact we backed France's little puppet government.We might have ended up with a very valuable ally if we backed Ho or just kept our noses out of it.Then again spending time in Romania under Cueacescu and visiting a couple other communist countries and knowing what I saw first hand. If he really was a true hard line commie....

[aleconthelake]

Thanks for the link! very informative and I stand corrected. Still makes you wonder, What if Truman had acknowledged his requests and we had done things correctly.

[aleconthelake]

you might be right about bringing the troops home but as far as I'm concerned this country should do what Isreal does, turn 18 you go to the military for 2 years boy girl whatever, sweat a little for your country. Learn a little discipline and respect, get a little bit of a work ethic. Then go to college or go back to the farm be a grease monkey or what ever it is you choose to do.At least learn who you really are Might go a long way to reducing welfare rolls and alot of other worthless govermment programs designed to keep people on the govermment nipple and under the goverments thumb

[aleconthelake]

Why do we usually support those governments?

Do we need 11 aircraft carriers to do this? (Russia, China, England, France, Thailand, Brazil and India have one each, Spain and Italy sort of have 2 each). We have as many as all the rest of the world combined. This is the current US military style ... to be as armed as the entire rest of the world combined and that is still not enough.

As Eisenhower warned this is very expensive ... is Eisenhower's advice bad?

You know thinking about it, After the Japanese surrender a Japanese general was asked "why didnt you invade the west coast of America when you had us on our back?" His reply was the cost of invading a country where every home had guns would have been too high,. That is not an exact quote but you get the gist of what he was saying. the size and technological complexity of our military is definitely .... above and beyond I think especially if you look throughout history, even our own (i.e. the american revolution) a smaller less heavily armed inferior force that is fighting for something it truly believes in may lose the battle but ultimately wins the war. Which brings up another point, Our government has made so many mistakes over the past 50 years and sent our troops to be policeman in a war zone with idiotic rules of engagement and gotten so many killed for no reason,. it gave the liberals of the 60's a reason and did such a good job of demonizing our military, of bluring the lines of what is right and what is wrong , it really makes me wonder,Would this country really have the heart to fight a real knock down drag out war? . Will this country ever stand together again about anything? I mean 9/11, ragheads in this country cheering when the towers came down and there were people in this country saying that that behavior was ok. I got spit ion the first time I came home on leave in uniform. Is that ok? I had a mother have her 10 year old daughter come up to me in union square in NYC and tell me our troops were murdering children in Iraq 25 years later is that OK ? What kind of person uses an innocent child for such a thing? She was part of an anti war rally in the park. I wasnt in uniform and the woman didnt know Im retired military what we she have done then? I'm sorry but until you have done something for our country or served something bigger than yourself shut your mouth and just say thank you to someone who has put it on the line so you can have your freedom to say something stupid and not get in trouble for it. War is horrible, the consequences are horrendous. and that is part of the reason why our military has gotten so big and so expensive. Trying to make war without a human cost. This country and the rest of the really educated world. cant stomach the human cost of war. Well sorry, but until the scourge of people like Ghengis Khan , Kim Il Jung, Adolf hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse tung, POL POT Saddam Hussien, King Edward the 1st, and how many other tin pot dictators is erased from the human gene pool wars will happen and people will die in droves.

[Mark75H]

I think you are right, many Americans today are like the French during WWII ... they would rather just roll over to the enemy than fight. Its a good thing that its not ALL or MOST.

On the other hand ... if some country wants to invade those liberal lilies in NYC or LA ... they can have them ... just don't try messin' with AZ, Idaho, Jersey or Vermont. Likely to get a butt kickin' there.

[aleconthelake]

Hey hey LOL easy on the NY! LOL nyc you are right about but there are an awful lot of us real people left up here in upstate NY LOL! Even lots of good ole boy redneck mountain folk way up state! LOL

[Mark75H]

;) That's why I called out the 2 cities and not their states :eek:

[aleconthelake]

yep! I see that now LOL Makes you wish we could rewind to the fifties and early 60's ! We were sure of who we are, Didnt put up with panty waist BS and had great cars and great race boat motors!

[aleconthelake]

and thunderboats sounded totally awesome!

[Original Looper 1]

Why are we in Iraq? If you recall, they sold it to us as protecting us all from Weapons of Mass Destruction. Not freeing the Iraqi people - at least not at the beginning of the sale of the war to uninformed Americans.

Remember the Bush admin selling of the WMDs to us: http://rense.com/general38/lying.htm

The road to the Iraq war was paved by the CIA and the Pentagon. If you read nothing else about what lead to the 2nd war in Iraq, read this story - The Man who Sold the War (John Rendon). Here’s a link to the story http://www.twf.org/News/Y2005/1120-Propaganda.html

The article includes the following 2 important paragraphs:

Although Rendon denies any direct involvement with al-Haideri, the defector was the latest salvo in a secret media war set in motion by Rendon. In an operation directed by Ahmad Chalabi -- the man Rendon helped install as leader of the INC -- the defector had been brought to Thailand, where he huddled in a hotel room for days with the group's spokesman, Zaab Sethna. The INC routinely coached defectors on their stories, prepping them for polygraph exams, and Sethna was certainly up to the task -- he got his training in the art of propaganda on the payroll of the Rendon Group. According to Francis Brooke, the INC's man in Washington and himself a former Rendon employee, the goal of the al-Haideri operation was simple: pressure the United States to attack Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein.

As the CIA official flew back to Washington with failed lie-detector charts in his briefcase, Chalabi and Sethna didn't hesitate. They picked up the phone, called two journalists who had a long history of helping the INC promote its cause and offered them an exclusive on Saddam's terrifying cache of WMDs.

The article goes on to state that the CIA hired the Rendon Group to do anti-Saddam propaganda. They knew, and the White House knew, that the WMD claims were lies.

Rendon’s work in Iraq actually started in 1990, before the 1st Gulf War, when he was hired by the rich oil sheiks to create a fake front organization, Citizens for a Free Kuwait, to cover for the partying, nightclubbing royal family in exile. After Iraq withdrew from Kuwait, it was Rendon’s company that moved in quickly to make sure the people had plenty of flags to wave to show their support for their “liberators” in front of the cameras for the American consumers.

The National Iraqi Congress was created by Rendon, with the help of lots of CIA dollars. During the Iraq war under W. Bush, $326,000 a month was being paid to Rendon’s company by the CIA through various front companies. According to some reports, the company made nearly $100 million on contracts during the five years following the Gulf War.
Here’s one more very important paragraph from the article:

Three weeks after the September 11th attacks, according to documents obtained from defense sources, the Pentagon awarded a large contract to the Rendon Group. Around the same time, Pentagon officials also set up a highly secret organization called the Office of Strategic Influence. Part of the OSI's mission was to conduct covert disinformation and deception operations -- planting false news items in the media and hiding their origins. "It's sometimes valuable from a military standpoint to be able to engage in deception with respect to future anticipated plans," Vice President Dick Cheney said in explaining the operation. Even the military's top brass found the clandestine unit unnerving. "When I get their briefings, it's scary," a senior official said at the time.

Never before in history had such an extensive secret network been established to shape the entire world's perception of a war.


Here’s a quote for everyone regarding the “War on Terror:”

The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US . . ." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

Just comments from another “liberal,” huh?



Other links worth reading to FOLLOW THE MONEY:

http://rense.com/general73/dollars.htm

Pipeline-istan, the real reasons we‘re in Afghanistan: http://www.bushstole04.com/Obama_Presidency.htm/obama_oil_gas.htm


All of the above, and our borders to the north and south of our country are for all practical purposes, wide open. This for a country that’s supposed to be at war for over 10 years against the evil ragheads.


Yesterday, in this great country we live in, I had to get a routine blood test. They demanded I provide a photo ID, preferably a driver’s license, to prove who I was and where I lived. They then proceeded to tell me I had to pay for my test, which I did in cash, because I don’t have health insurance. I also read a story last night that appeared on most of the right wing web sites that stated Obamacare, which is being partially instated now, would not require proof of status (ie citizenship) at the health centers being set up to provide health care for migrants. Which means, illegals get free health care paid for by me and other taxpayers, while at the same time, I must pay cash for my own health services because I can’t afford health insurance. What a great country we live in!

I would be interested in aleconthelake’s comments if the bought and paid for Congress wipes out most of his socialistic, government paid for health care and retirement pension in the name of austerity and freedom. That’s what members of Congress (on both sides of the aisle) would like to do to our Medicare and Social Security, which I and millions of others have paid into for many years. :mad:


Regards,

Paul

[Mark75H]

Social Security was supposed to support you for a few years after you could no longer work, not DECADES after you felt like quitting but could still work if you wanted to. The full benefit age should have been increased as life expectancy started increasing dramatically in the '60's.

In the 30's almost no one lived to be 70+

[Original Looper 1]

Right now, military personnel can retire after 20 years of service and collect 1/2 of their salary for the rest of their lives. Someone 38 years of age could "retire" and collect for another 50 years, including health benefits.

Many in the public unions, ie our public servants, can collect retirement starting at age 55, or younger in some states, for the rest of their lives. That includes health care benefits.

Members of Congress are vested in their pension plan after just 5 years of service. They can start collecting at age 50. They also qualify for access to cadillac health care plans for life, payed for by us taxpayers, after just 1 term of service.

We taxpayers in the private sector are paying for all of these groups to collect early benefits. Maybe that's why they're looking so closely at SS and Medicare -- because somebody has to pay for the generous benefits the above all collect.

Who's the public servant here?


regards,

Paul

[Mark75H]

There are about 500 congress critters and senators ... their benefits aren't even a drop in the bucket ... way less than a billion ... the debt problem is in trillions ... it might be a good place to start, but it is less than 1/10,000 th of the problem

[Original Looper 1]

The federal payroll is currently over $450 BILLION a year. That' s not counting the billions we're paying in benefits & healthcare for retired federal workers. Add in state and local municipality workers, and you've got a huge hole that can't be filled by us as a nation consuming 50% more than we produce, with borrowed money. We as a nation are headed towards economic disaster and neither party is serious about fixing or stopping it.

By the way, it's not just 500 congress members. There are a lot of people that serve 1 or 2 terms and leave. We cover them. They all have staff members. We cover them.

Again, I ask you - who's the public servant???

Same as always, the private sector, tax paying, little guy and/or gal that nobody in Congress seems to want to actually represent.


Regards,
Paul

[Mark75H]

I heard something interesting today ... at the current rate ... Chinese income on US bonds will be fully funding the Chinese military in about 10 years.

[Original Looper 1]

Public servant's lorl !

[aleconthelake]

paul
dont you dare group military personel in with the leeches sluts and *****s that our U.S. goverment officials have become! You have 18 and 19 year old's serving in conditions you in your comfy easy chair cant imagine for a pittance. If they happen to have a family they arent paid enough to take care of them! You obviously have never served in the military and have no idea of the sacrifices that a twenty year veteran makes during that twenty years.

[aleconthelake]

Paul
One more thing, Its not the military that is taking our freedoms away its our own Govenrment. and as far as Iraq???? Waaaaaaahhhhh we went to war. Our elected commander in chief did what he had to do to do away with a dictator that USED weapons of mass destruction on his own people, Invaded and took over a weaker neighbor, started a devastating 10 year war with another neighbor, You obviously think Neville Chamberlain did the right thing letting hitler annex the Sudetenland, Take over Austria and The Czech republic and believe he had made "peace for our time" 6 million Jews and countless other dead later the rest of the world found out different. And Yes Saddam Hussein was in the same league as hitler. Thats right OUR ELECTED COMMANDER IN CHIEF did what he hgad to do to get around all the bleeding heart liberals in this country that would rather sleep with and appease an enemy instead standing for what is right!

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Our current Commander in Chief stated that in regard to the Liberian "epidsode" he would "Be leading from behind". Nothing more needs be explained about the type of "leader" we are currently scraping the bushes behind. Much more needs to be exposed. He is a hollow shell. I know he can read (teleprompter), I guess he can write (although nothing he has ever written has surfaced), because he signs little scrips at at time on spending money, but the thing I have wondered about for a long time......and I still am.....CAN HE THINK?

[aleconthelake]

Our current "leader" is no leader at all! We haven't had a real leader since Reagan. This idiot in office now, OMG hang on tight we are in for a rough rough ride. Sorry but the liberals in this country are letting government into every aspect of our lives and that is so wrong! As far as bailing out all those big wall street banks and GM and Chrysler??? Should have let them go under! They are all right back to business as usual! and who is footing the bill????? LikeI said before this government is not in business for the people. It is in business for itself and big business. I know I am kind of sending mixed messages here but... Iguees Im looking at a line between internal problems and external problems. Right now I see the internmal problem as a way biggger threat to our way of life than the external. All I can say is if you have guns hang on to them no matter what because we are going to need them, This government is dangerous to every day peoples health! Criminals have more rights then we do. ILLEGAL ALIENS have way more rights and freedoms then we do and why? because you soft hearted liberals! Sorry point the finger where it needs to be pointed!" oooooohhhh dont kill a murderer thats immoral," we can rehabilitate him... do you rehabilitate a rabid dog????? NO you shoot it! Same difference! Oh dont pick on illegal aliens they have it so tough where they come from, they are just trying to get a better life... WAAAAAAAAAA So where my great grandparents but they cam in through Ellis Island the legal way!!!!!! I'm sorry but thereis a rioght way and a wrong way to do things. you do wrong you get punished, you do right you get rewarded. period cut and dry! You damn liberals believe everything is grey and that minority issue's should have majority say. Then you the nerve to snivel and whine when the government starts kowtowing to little special interest groups!

[Original Looper 1]

So you obviously aren't going to support "liberal" Texas governor Rick Perry based on his pro-illegals, anti e-verify policies? He's pro DREAM Act and against border fences. He even allows illegals access to in-state tuition to TX colleges. :eek: He's for more free trade, sending the rest of our jobs overseas. Perry is also a strong proponent of the NAFTA superhighway too.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61076.html


As for your "liberal" idol Ronald Reagan, he gave blanket amnesty to millions of illegals in 1986. His supply side economics lead to the worst decade of post-World War II growth. Median wages were flat and there was a massive redistribution of income, with wealth going to the top one - two percent of the population. Reagan said he believed in balanced budgets but ran the biggest deficit (to date) in history and never actually produced a balanced budget. He promised to reduce the size of government, but government spending increased by 25%, adjusted for inflation, during his years in office.

The Democrats have nothing to brag about either, Obama entered office bringing along a staff full of Wall Street insiders. Some of the same ones that helped bring about the crash in 2008, some of the same ones that served under W. Bush before him. I tell you, no matter what letter they place beside their names, the same establishment rules behind the scenes. They pull the strings no matter which puppet or side of the theater is in the oval office.

So your idea of a great leader is someone that believed in blanket amnesty for illegals (free ride off of the taxpayers), expanding government, expanding spending, no balance budgets? And you'd like to throw in shutting down one of the last big manufacturing industries left in our nation that backs our money up and helps give it some value?

No wonder they call us sheeple.......:rolleyes:


Regards,
Paul