One Man, One Motor

[Original Looper 1]

The man - Wayne Walgrave.

The motor - 6 cylinder Quincy Looper XF-41.




Regards,

Paul

[Gene East]

Pretty impressive for a guy with a funny looking home-made boat!

Congratulations Wayne!

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Very impressive. That's my favorite photo of Wayne in his boat.

[Danny Pigott]

Paul how many 6 cyl Looper's were built, just wondering . How many still exist today? I think more people would like to have one of these engines than any other.

[Original Looper 1]

Hi Danny,

Based on the latest information and documentation I have compiled, including the original Quincy Welding production serial number book, there were originally 15 6 cylinder Quincy Loopers produced at Quincy Welding.

13 were originally 60 ci engines, 2 were 66 ci engines. Note: this is not counting the 3 experimental 90 ci 6 cylinder Loopers that were exclusive to Mercury Marine.

Worth mentioning, one of the 60 ci Loopers went from being a 60 ci championship engine to a 44 ci 6 cylinder world championship engine, then back to a 60 ci championship engine again. It is now in a private collection in FL. We believe this engine may be the only one in the history of outboard racing engines to have been a multiple displacement, championship winning engine in this order.

It is believed that 2 of the 6 cylinder Looper engines were completely hand machined from sold billets of aluminum. One of the two had over 600 man hours in hand machining of the block alone. That motor resides in the state of Washington.

As to the whereabouts of the engines:

3 are in the state of Washington (including the one mentioned above) - they have potential to be running engines

1 is in California - not currently in running condition

3 are in Michigan, in 2 different private collections - all are considered to be runable

2 are in Florida, in 2 different private collections - both are believed to be runable


That leaves 6 engines that are not accounted for as yet. Before anyone asks, I will not release the serial numbers of the missing motors at this time to prevent possible forgeries from being configured. These motors carry a high premium in the current outboard racing motor market, so accurate documentation is essential.


I would be willing to verify with the original Quincy Welding engine serial number record book any previously undocumented engine(s) and serial number(s) that have yet to turn up, as long as it has support documentation that correlates with Quincy Welding's original material.

To those who like treasure hunts, happy hunting!


Regards,

Paul A Christner



PS to Karen: I can't thank you enough for the kind words. :)

[Ron Hill]

Is the California motor, Dean Wilson, Sr's motor? If not, who has it?

[Steve Litzell]

Is the California motor, Dean Wilson, Sr's motor? If not, who has it?
None other than 6 legend and good friend Rich Fuchslin. What do I win? Steve:D:D:D

[Ron Hill]

Who ended up with Dean's?

[deanwilson]

We still have it, although I'm not sure of the serial number or if it has one.
It's a billet block and is complete, it was running before we stored it away.
BTW, the intermediate housing was also custom made by Quincy welding.
Only two owners, Larry Latta & Dean Wilson.

(OMG, I sound like a car salesman)

[racnbns]

I had a 6 looper for a few years. The strange part is that it had a D serial no.. Actually it had 2 D serial nos. You guessed it that was the 6 I made from 2 D's., actually 1 D and half of another D. I still have the bottom half of the top 2 cyl. on the six.

The top 2 cyls. came from FD 78 and the bottom 4 from FD 35. I'll have to ck. with Paul Christner to see who the original owner's were.

I had a 1 piece 4 cyl. cyl hd. I got from someone. It bridged the joint of the 2 blocks and tied things together .The other cyl was a 2 cyl.
hd. Both of these hds were made by Elmer Grade and they had no pocket. When I cut the cumbustion chamber I centered it in the cyl. I don't know why Quincy had them offset. Maybe it had to do with exaust setup on the Quincy. Gene,Paul or Frank can you help us there?

Bruce

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I seem to remember the first 350CC 2 cyl opposed Yamato I saw the inside of had offset combustion chambers, and it also had "flat top" pistons. Maybe something that goes together in engine design?? I don't think there were that many made, so maybe that one was a "one off". I think it belonged to the Brinkmans or possibly Kay Harrison. I do remember they had lots of problems keeping it from trying to tear itself apart horizonally as the case had been welded a number of times and it was also a BEAR to crank, kind of like a D Konig.



ADD

Dean:

Re your remark about sounding like a used car salesman

Some years before John Dortch passed away and when he was advertising some equipment for sale, part of the ad read, in addition to a description of the equipment, "only run on weekends and Sunday", so you were not the first on to sound that way!

[Mark75H]

According to Gordon Jennings, offset combustion chambers and spark plug locations help dissipate heat and add turbulence ... adding power without the associated drawback of higher compression or compensating for very high compression (basically making the motor run cooler and calmer)

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Sam:

I had a Jennings book at one time but can't seem to find it now. Does he say anything about the relationship between offset combustion chambers and flat top pistons? I can't remember ever seeing offset chambers in anything but engines with flat top pistons and was wondering if there was some connection that made that type chamber work better with that type piston. Or at least most of the modern engines that have domed pistons have a centrally located chamber, that I have seen anyway.

I had some Honda RS125R pistons (domed) for sale a few weeks ago that were for a 125 that was made out of Honda cylinders from one of their road racing bikes. I had a question from a potential buyer as to whether the pistons were domed or flat top, so evidently Honda made both types for this (later) model engine. I have no information as to whether the head used with the flat top pistons had an offset combustion chamber, but that makes me curious now.

[Gene East]

Honda pistons??

What does this have to do with Wayne Walgrave or 6 cyl Loopers?

Good question, just wrong thread.

[Frank Volker]

The Coanda effect (see your friendly Wiki place) is one reason for offsetting the combustion chamber. This is especially true for cylinders with finger ports--or "puff ports" as we called them. Offsetting the chamber toward the back of the cylinder most likely results in a cleaner scavenge of the combustion chamber as the air/fuel charge travels up the back side of the cylinder wall and directly into the chamber. These offset chambers also had a generous bevel on the side nearest exhaust port to aid scavenging flow.

I recall testing several combustion chamber configurations and the offset type pulled a little more HP. The best shape was more of a bathtub shape than a hemisphere, but the later was easier to machine. I don't recall how the plugs were affected, since the CD was so good it would keep anything lit.

Frank V.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Honda pistons??

What does this have to do with Wayne Walgrave or 6 cyl Loopers?

Good question, just wrong thread.






"flat top' pistons and offset combustion chambers, and since other manufacturers evidently saw something in that type design, it was relevant, but evidently not. If every thread on BRF was only about the specific original title, a lot of boat racing history would be lost or never posted.

As "Emily LaTilla" said, 'NEVER MIND".

[Karen Cadle]

:d ---

[racnbns]

:d ---

Karen---

Do you know the year of the pic. of Arlen and the 6 cab-over hydro.? It looks like a very early 6 [stock schrouds and 6 pipes] and Jones cab-over?

Maybe Gene can help us here.

Bruce

[Gene East]

Karen---

Do you know the year of the pic. of Arlen and the 6 cab-over hydro.? It looks like a very early 6 [stock schrouds and 6 pipes] and Jones cab-over?

Maybe Gene can help us here.

Bruce

Quincy came out with pipes at the beginning of the 1959 racing season (I was still in high school). I returned from the Navy in 1962.

Arlen and Freddie Goehl moved to Bryan, TX either in '63 or '64 to form Bryan Marine. I know they were not with QW at the 1964 Championships at Lake Spivey.That would mean the picture was no earlier than 1959 and not later than 1963. My GUESS is 1961.

BTW: That is NOT the Quincy dam in the background. Too many trees!

[Karen Cadle]

Gene,

There was no date on the original newspaper article, but many of the ones in the scrap book of Nanny's were in race/year order and that one was in with the ones from 58 - 62.

[Gene East]

Quincy came out with pipes at the beginning of the 1959 racing season (I was still in high school). I returned from the Navy in 1962.

Arlen and Freddie Goehl moved to Bryan, TX either in '63 or '64 to form Bryan Marine. I know they were not with QW at the 1964 Championships at Lake Spivey.That would mean the picture was no earlier than 1959 and not later than 1963. My GUESS is 1961.

BTW: That is NOT the Quincy dam in the background. Too many trees!

Actually, Chris developed the Quincy pipes in the fall of 1958 following a serious butt kicking at the NOA Nationals in McAlester. Vera (Mrs. Christner) was at that race and made the statement, "You've got to make those motors faster"!

Wives can be so cruel!

A great deal of testing was done by Chris and his son David at Twin Oaks that fall, but the pipes weren't raced until 1959.

A set of "B" pipes was sent to Mercury that fall for evaluation.

If you round out and straighten the original welded up 20-H toilet bowl pipes, you'll find they would be very similar to the Quincy pipes.

Hmmmmm?

[PROP RIDERS RACING]

I am pretty sure that picture was taken in 1959 at the NOA World Championship in Springfield, Il.
I have the same picture that was out of the Springfield paper.

We ran many races in that location on Lake Springfield. That is the bridge that crosses I55 in the background.

[PROP RIDERS RACING]

No, I missed it.
Where do I find it?

[Dabull1919]

I read a thread about a guy building a six looper from scratch and can`t remember where the thread is. Anybody know? I never raced these type boats but they are very interesting.

DB

[Gene East]

"Building a looper beast"

Also check Richard "Dick" Austin

[Mark75H]

Dick Austin