I Got Disqualified But I Wasn't Really Cheating

[Ron Hill]

Dick O'Dea and I have been writing emails back and forth.

My father inspected the 1954 DePere Wisconsin Nationals. Dick O'Dea had just gotten out of the Navy and had some good running boats. He had heard from local Jersey guys, like Johnny Colvals, NOT to try to pull any fast ones on old man Hill. So, Dick asked my dad to measure his A-B Quickie ahead of the race. My dad said it passed. Dick did not tell may dad he was going to run it on a 20-H, as it had a bushing tail cone, which my dad didn't look at.

Anyway, Dickie won his heat with his 20-H and was protested. The commission decided that the bushing cone never came on a 20-H and was therefore illegal. My dad carried Dickie's DQ's at DePere on his conscience until he died. Dick O'Dea the gentleman he was and is, never held it against my dad.

I was telling Dick that someone was looking for information about Jane Smith. Dick remembered disqualifying her for being under weight.

Here is our emails...

There was a time we all had fun racing...legal or not. I was 11 when I started, had to be 12....They beached my dad after I became High Point Champion in Region 12.



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Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Boat Racing Facts Forums Contact Us Form - Why Banned

In what I believe was 1951 I ran second in AU class in the Albany to New York marathon, 130 miles in an AU was a killer, I was young and having fun, I was told to go to inspection, well there went 2nd place, seems you could not polish the ports in stock racing. We raced outlaw races, and only joined APBA to run the marathon.
Guess I learned the hard way.

In a message dated 11/30/2011 8:27:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ronhill@hillmarine.com writes:
One time my niece was racing A Runabout. Her brother, Bunker, ran the boat in 20...He was probably still growing only weighing 220 and 6'3"...He topped out at 6'7"....It was a Saturday race in December, a little cold here. Georgie never beat anyone anyway, so we didn't put lead the boat. Seems there was a bunch of gun jumpers...and they called her down to weigh...I said, "**** she's going to get DQ'd....So, I grabbed all the lead in the trailer and tossed it under the pad.....We could hardly get the boat on the scales....She was still about 30 pounds light....


When the Alkies changed the rules to keep us Stocker out...Ted May and I would tie a five gallon gas IN OUR D HYDROS....THEN, FILL the cans BETWEEN HEATS.....I WATCHED AS THEY THREW TED OUT FOR BEING LIGHT. SO, I PULLED MY SPONSON CORKS. THEN, PUT THEM BACK. I MADE WEIGHT. TED WAS SO PISSED...HE ASKED , "HOW DID YOU MAKE WEIGHT AND I DIDN'T?" Ted would get mad at me for years if I brought that up... ...


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Jane Smith was only about 30 pounds light.

I'm sure some of you have stories about being disqualifed when you really we're cheating...

[hydroplay]

Cool! The 54 Stock Nationals was my very first boat race. It was maybe 12 blocks from our house so I could ride my bike there and watch as a 6 year old kid. (Also learned to go perpendicular across railroad tracks from the train tracks there) One day my dad got us out in the course in a neighbor's cabin cruiser. A couple years ago, I was at Mike Helm's house and he pulled out a large stack of 8x10 pics of the event that his dad, Sterling, had taken there as a Merc PR guy. I still have a pennant on the wall in the basement that I got there.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I can't remember the specifics on this, but I have it all in files, but this is the way we intentionlally cheated. Or maybe not.;)

Dieter Konig built a new slimmer split case 12:15 lower unit, and I believe it was in 1974. Somehow the specs were lost in the process of approval by the racing commission. I have a letter somewhere that shows that Walt Blankenstein had later found them. I suppose he was the one handling the tech side and misplaced them. In the meantime, without the specs available to be published, there was a question of whether or not this unit was legal. The critical dimension was the width. Maybe Ralph Donald might remember some more of the story.

The new A's were being shipped with them and many racers had purchased the new units. People began building up the sides with epoxy to be legal. We took some four inch lengths of stainless steel wire and epoxyed one to each side of the unit. There was no one on the Pro Commission or at APBA that could say one way or another whether the units were legal, and there were no inspectors measuring them. It wouldn't be until the divisionals or nationals until the matter would come to a head. My Dad thought this was a bunch of bull, and he wanted it settled before then.

Jack Chance ground down the wire and expoxy build up from our unit and we raced it at Baytown, Texas. My Dad Baldy then gave Artie Lund twenty five dollars to file the protest. Jack Chance was the Lone Star Boat Racing Association inspector and he measured the unit and filed the paperwork. I do not remember whether I was thrown out, or whether the question was put to the technical committee on how to rule, or what happened. Homer Kincaid was PRO Chairman at the time, and eventually the units were deemed legal, but I can't remember the process. When Walt eventually found the original specifications from Dieter, it all became a mute point, but the issue was resolved before that happened. Maybe at a commission meeting.

[Ron Hill]

Cool! The 54 Stock Nationals was my very first boat race. It was maybe 12 blocks from our house so I could ride my bike there and watch as a 6 year old kid. (Also learned to go perpendicular across railroad tracks from the train tracks there) One day my dad got us out in the course in a neighbor's cabin cruiser. A couple years ago, I was at Mike Helm's house and he pulled out a large stack of 8x10 pics of the event that his dad, Sterling, had taken there as a Merc PR guy. I still have a pennant on the wall in the basement that I got there.


Hydroplay,

Check out the badge from 1954. My dad was the motor inspector for the 1954 Nationals. http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46&highlight=DePere+Wisconsin+Nationals

Somewhere in the Hill Family Thread I posted my DePere Nationals banner.

Funny about bike riding, at about 8 I learned to never turn a corner when going through water, especially if the water has been there long enough for moss to grow on the cement. Talk about going *** over teakettle!!!

Could you post some of those DePere pictures?

[Steve Litzell]

I can't remember the specifics on this, but I have it all in files, but this is the way we intentionlally cheated. Or maybe not.;)

Dieter Konig built a new slimmer split case 12:15 lower unit, and I believe it was in 1974. Somehow the specs were lost in the process of approval by the racing commission. I have a letter somewhere that shows that Walt Blankenstein had later found them. I suppose he was the one handling the tech side and misplaced them. In the meantime, without the specs available to be published, there was a question of whether or not this unit was legal. The critical dimension was the width. Maybe Ralph Donald might remember some more of the story.

The new A's were being shipped with them and many racers had purchased the new units. People began building up the sides with epoxy to be legal. We took some four inch lengths of stainless steel wire and epoxyed one to each side of the unit. There was no one on the Pro Commission or at APBA that could say one way or another whether the units were legal, and there were no inspectors measuring them. It wouldn't be until the divisionals or nationals until the matter would come to a head. My Dad thought this was a bunch of bull, and he wanted it settled before then.

Jack Chance ground down the wire and expoxy build up from our unit and we raced it at Baytown, Texas. My Dad Baldy then gave Artie Lund twenty five dollars to file the protest. Jack Chance was the Lone Star Boat Racing Association inspector and he measured the unit and filed the paperwork. I do not remember whether I was thrown out, or whether the question was put to the technical committee on how to rule, or what happened. Homer Kincaid was PRO Chairman at the time, and eventually the units were deemed legal, but I can't remember the process. When Walt eventually found the original specifications from Dieter, it all became a mute point, but the issue was resolved before that happened. Maybe at a commission meeting.

Just before this time was the hoop la about the new cast Iron cylinder FA. Ralph had come to Lakeland with one of these and missing a not running clean, he set the A hydro record up some 5 to 6 MPH. The win and record were protested and off to the commission it went. I cannot remember who the chairman was at the time, but people present were, OF Christner, Jerry Waldman, and Dieter Konig among others. The protest was about the new iron cylinders and that they have not been approved. After hearing from those involved, OF and Jerry from Quincy and listening to all the reasons why this motor was not legal, it was Dieters turn to have his say, He said that this motor was legal because these new cylinders were only an allowed replacement part and that any customers with older model motors could buy these cylinders and exhaust parts and have a up dated motor. If this was not allowed then all records that Quincy have set were also null and void. When asked why, Dieter said do the Qunicy motors have new exhaust and different port specifications than one year ago? These parts did not need to be approved because they were replacement / superseded parts and did not need to be approved as they were factory replacement parts. My cylinders too are factory replacement / superseded parts and do not need to be approved as per your rule!. It was decided that Konig was correct and battle was won. Ralph never did get his record back and in my opinion he should have. Later the approval process was taken out of our rules and for the better I think as this allowed also home built motors and units to be used. These were fun days to watch and listen about these "problems" for a very young Steve as I think I was 17 at the time. The unit thing was also a lot of Bull as Baldy said, and it too went away. And for the good of our sport. Steve:D

[David Weaver]

My dad and my uncle Tommy met Jane and Ralph at the Depere nationals. Dad said that Ralph had placed bags of sand in Jane's C or D stock hydro so that she would make weight. Unfortunately, it rained, the bags absorbed all the water they could and Jane could not get on plane!! Same weekend, my uncle Tommy won the first heat of BSR, only to flip coming out the last turn in heat two while leading.....:eek:

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

My dad and my uncle Tommy met Jane and Ralph at the Depere nationals. Dad said that Ralph had placed bags of sand in Jane's C or D stock hydro so that she would make weight. Unfortunately, it rained, the bags absorbed all the water they could and Jane could not get on plane!! Same weekend, my uncle Tommy won the first heat of BSR, only to flip coming out the last turn in heat two while leading.....:eek:

Dave,

I was 15 & raced BSH at Depere & finished 4th. I don't recall if Jane & Ralph were there, but that doesn't mean they weren't. Being from Region 3 as Ralph & Jane were, I actually can't recall when they started racing but Ralph did first racing B Runabout. Jane's first calss was ASH which she raced into 1957 or even later so if she did race at Depere it would have been ASH.

[Tim Chance]

In 1961 I bought a new A Konig, HRA model, the one with one pipe pointing up at about 2:00 o'clock and the other down at about 8:00 o'clock. I couldn't make it run and bought an old outdated KG-4 Mercury, no pipes just a Quincy open exhaust and the cast aluminum fuel tank on top with Quincy in script across the back. Anyhow, the first time I ran the KG-4 I won. Second place was a good Anzani and there was a lot of real good equipment behind me. Later,I got the Konig sorted out and sold the KG-4; the guy that bought it came to me and said it wasn't a KG-4 at all, it was a KG-7. So in hindsight I cheated and won my first A race with a B.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

That's funny Tim. We did the same thing in 1967 (our team, that is). It was the final race of the year, and it was late October I think at the State Park on Lake Corpus Christi. It was very cold and overcast.

Jack Chance still had his team then and Clayton Elmer was driving for him We had partnered up and my Dad had bought several new rotary valve Konigs that had just come out. We had been having ignition troubles and Jack had found some high output coils, but they wouldn't fit the Konig mounts on the exhaust side. Jack made his own brackets and mounted them on the front casting boss. The back half had a stud screwed in the bottom to anchor the back of the powerhead to the tower housing, and the top front boss was where Dieter stamped the serial number. Unfortunately, Jack mounted the ignitions on a C Konig, and a D Konig before he restamped the motors.

He had a much bigger stamp than Konig---maybe 3/8ths inch and stamped the C motor as a D and vice versa. The D was to be my motor and the C went to Clayton. The first time we ran the motors was at that race in the State Park. It was a local race so there were no motor inspections. It was so cold and drizzly, I think we skipped weighing also. Just ran the heats as quick as possible to get the races over and pack up.

Clayton blew everybody away with his "C", but I struggled with my "D" to keep up. We couldn't pull the prop very well and it did not accellerate good at all. After the races were over my Dad to Jack, "That D of Wayne's is a dog. You're gonna have to go through it, but don't do a damn thing to Clayton's C":D It was when Jack tore down my "D" to make a good motor out of it that he discovered the mistake. We got a good laugh out of that over the years.

[hydroplay]

Back when my son was racing AXS and J in both hydro and runabout, things got rushed between the classes and I accidentally sent him in J runabout without the J restrictor plate. He knew just getting up on plane what was happening so he was careful to just run fast enough to win by a boat length. He came in and said we need to change jets- something we often did anyways- so I pulled off the carb and played with it a bit and put it back together for the second heat with the restrictor plate. He won that heat as well so I figured we could have won the first heat legally.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

This thread brings to mind one of the most upsetting and STUPID things I ever did in my almost 40 years of competition. As Wayne's Dad "Baldy" would say, "Not only was that not very smart, that's about the biggest case of DUMB *** I ever saw."

To top it off I had some time and other driver congratulations to think I had really accomplished something before I was brought back to earth!

Sometime about the mid-80's (don't remember the exact date as I am still trying to put it out of my mind) I set a record at the annual Lakeland Florida record course on Lake Hollingsworth. They always presented a large traveling trophy that you kept for one year, that your name, class and speed was engraved on, and a smaller one to keep permanently, for the existing record that was broken by the most MPH. It went by the name "The Orange Cup Trophy", and was highly prized and competed for as an annual award for prestigious accomplishment.

My boat and engine was running very well at that time and I knew I had a good shot at the record if I didn't do anything stupid. Long story short, made a good legal start both heats, and broke the record both heats. We ran late in the day, probably because of weather or wind delays which was not unusual that time of year in Florida, so by the time I got done and back in the pits, we hurried to get the stuff packed up as I was racing off the same trailer with Phil Howard at the time, and if any that read this also know Phil, one thing he was very good about was getting on the road headed home ASAP after the last heat of the day he or anyone with him was completed. We put the engine in the box, boat on the trailer, and after a short celebration and good wishes/goodbyes from Phil and Jeannie, they pulled out and headed for Illinois where he had to be to open the doors at his Laundry/Dry Cleaners the next day.

Eileen and I were standing around (we flew down to the race and were flying back that evening) talking with some friends when whoever the inspector was came up to me and said "I'm ready to inspect to certify you are OK for the record". At that point I knew I had really screwed up 1st class, but there was nothing to say or do as Phil was probably 30 miles up the road by then, and cell phones did not exist at that time. No inspection, no record, no Orange Cup Trophy that year, and just as bad was the looks I was getting from my fellow racers, half feeling sorry for me, and half "What a case of DUMB ***"!

There is no excuse for not having your rig inspected, but it was done a little differently there than most of the places in the Midwest I was used to racing. The inspector had an area set aside for the Stock boats but to alleviate congestion in the area, and because PRO was basically bore and stroke, he just would come to the pit area of the PRO drivers involved and do the inspection there. There had been several records set that day, and that fact combined with Phil's need to get on the road and our excitement with setting the record just caused us to forget that the engine had not been inspected before he left.

Completely my (driver's) fault and responsibility as we all know and the rule book states, but it did not make it any easier to take that everything was legal, just an oversight and the additional problem with the inspector getting to my pit area after Phil left.

In the years to follow that case of "DUMB ***" I did manage to redeem myself somewhat, as I ended up winning the Orange Cup Trophy two more times, but I still have a space on there where my name should be, but isn't, because "I got disqualified, but I really wasn't cheating".

ADD: I had managed to somewhat forget this event until last spring while researching some information for Todd Brinkman Sr's obituary which appears on another thread here on BRF. I came across a newspaper article in the Lakeland newspaper about that race and the information in the story about how I had lost the record because of not being inspected before the rig left the course.

I really did not need to be reminded about it again, especially while trying to gather information about something I was already upset about. It just reminded me that some things that at the time seem really important when they are lost, are not so much compared to the loss of a good friend.

[Gene East]

Bill, your last paragraph sums up what truely is important if life.

I was prepared to add my slant to the theme of this thread, but now it seems unimportant.

Tomorrow marks the 70th anniversary of Pearl Harbor. My Dad's cousin Milton was a crewmember of the U.S.S. West Virginia. Milton was reported KIA via a telegram from the War Department,( The Department of the Navy did not yet exist).

A few days later the family received a telegram from Adm. Nimitz stating Milton was alive and well and headed home on leave.

Of course I was only 8 months old at the time, so I don't remember anything about that day. I do remember the celebration when all the servicemen came home after the war. I didn't understand what was happening, but I knew all the grown-ups were happy and there sure was a lot of hugging and kissing going on.

Over the course of 70 years I have often wondered about the roller-coaster of emotions my family went through for those long sad days in December of 1941. My heart goes out to the families who received only the first telegram.

Each day we lose over 1000 of these brave men and women who defended the world against evil so long ago.

Last spring Norma and I were in Washington D.C. to attend a reunion of the shipmates of U.S.S.Moale (my ship).

All our people visited the WWII Memorial. There were several Honor Flights there at the time. It was a thrill to shake hands with these America Heros or just to render a salute of respect in passing. There is no way to describe the smiles on all their faces.

I urge everyone to the support the Honor Flight program in your community and to urge every WWII veteran to visit the Memorial a grateful nation has built in his/her honor.

Honor Flight provides free air transportation and meals for any WWII Veteran and an escourt who wishes to go. Please support this effort.

God Bless These Heroes!

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

but anything you have posted in the past has always been appropriate AND important, especially the the history of our sport from your unique perspective as having worked for one of the most important contributors to our sport in that time frame, and also your having been associated with some of the best drivers to ever kneel behind a wheel and throttle.

I for one would appreciate reading about anything you might have to post here.

Bill

P.S. You can owe me a beer till the next time we see each other!!

[hydroplay]

Going along with Bill Van's inspection issues...

Some years ago also around 1980, I drove out to run the record course at Yelm WA. I took some equipment along for John Puestow and he flew out so I picked him up at Seattle. He set a record in 35SS Runabout late in the day on Sunday and the inspector, John Laird as I remember, was really busy and tired. He finally came over and asked us what we were doing after the race. We said we were planning on a leisurely drive down the coast highway and stay a couple days at Wilkie's home in Piedmont and then go and race at Bakersfield the next weekend. He said great, how about I inspect the motor down in Bakersfield next Saturday? How could we argue? So we left without getting inspected but it did pass the next weekend and John got the record.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Sam:

I seem to remember just a couple of years ago there was a similar issue about an inspection that took place several days after a joint Stock and maybe Mod Winter Nationals in Alexandria, La.

Don't remember the specifics, but there was a lot of controversy because of the time that passed before inspection and also "Eddie the Chairman's" part (or lack of) in it, as he was either the Race Chairman or Referee.

I seem to remember the controversy generated quite a bit of conversation on either Hydroracer or here, or both.

[Gene East]

Thanks Bill.

You can have one of my Lone Stars the Texans owe me thanks to the Cardinals.

Now back to the topic of the thread.

We've had a couple of reports from drivers who unknowingly won using too big an engine.

Sorry Tim, but how did you think a KG4 could possibly beat a Konig A?

I'll buy the story about the restrictor plate.

I want to ask if it's cheating when you win knowing you're running a "SMALLER" engine?

One year at Alex we burned a piston in our "44" while testing. There wasn't time to repair the engine before qualifications. Yes, there used to be qualification heats for F-Hydro! Those were the good old days!

Jim (Schoch) and I decided to run the "D" engine instead, thinking Poppa Smith would set his mic for the max bore and as long as it cleared, he wouldn't get too nosey. We would qualify and then rebuild the "44" that night to run in the finals.

Wrong! Poppa cranked that mic right down on the guage and we were disqualified after finishing first in our heat.

Jim and I put on an act that was worthy of the Academy Award. Jim acted liked he was really p.o.'d at me. I made the most humble apology any one ever heard. I took full blame telling Poppa I put the wrong engine on the boat.

For some reason Jim failed to qualify for D-Hydro and here we sat with a D that had just waxed many of the best F's in the country, and no place to run it. What to do?

Dan Kirts was pre-qualified by virtue of being last year's champion. He was very willing to run our boat in the finals. He won the D-Hydro championship with our boat.

This was when a lot of guys were claiming 100 MPH in D-Hydro. That boat would only run 87, but it ran 87 all the way around the course.

It ain't who's fastest, it's who's firstest!

I am sorry that I lied to such an icon of our sport as Poppa Smith, but when I get to Lake Paradise, I'll ask him to forgive me.

I'm sure he knew I was lying any way. He and Momma probably had a chuckle over dinner that night.

It wasn't long after this incident the rules were changed to specify the flywheel color as a class indicator.

Do you think I may have been to blame for that??

[Master Oil Racing Team]

That's a funny and great story Gene. You remember that story I told earlier about Jack Chance mixing up the motors and restamping the Class? He stamped the motors once again to make the correction Jack had stamped the first D at an angle so that the straight side was deeper. He moved the stamp to the right, straightened it up and hit it harder. Three years later Jack's brother-in-law bored the block and Jack put in some sleeves to make it an F. Walt Blankkenstein tweaked it When I set a record Papa was inspector. He saw the two D stamps on the block and said it was a D motor. I showed him the two X's filed across the D's to show that it was no longer a D motor, but the stamps would have had to have been ground down 1/8th inch or more to erase them Papa was an icon, and as a kid I had no standing, so I ran back to the pits to tell my Dad, and he rounded up Walt. Papa had already determined the motor was an F, but it was stamped wrong, even though there was a small F stamped nearby. Papa and Walt got into a heated argument and even though the motor was a legal F Papa said it was stamped "D..D". Walt shouted "Hell...that could stand for Donald Duck!" I was just a scared kid listening to these two legends of boat racing butt heads, but I guess when Walt made that Donald Duck comment, it must have struck a funny chord with Poppa Smith because everything settled down then. I ended up getting the record,

Now as for you Bill Van. My Dad may have kidded you about that, but he would have understood how that came about. I set a record once at Lakeland, and was never inspected. We were always weighed up until the point that weighing was not required any more, but I can see exactly what happened to you. It just wasn't something we were used to doing in the Pro class. The most inspections I ever went through were racing UIM.

[hydroplay]

We went to a local PRO race in Land O Lakes Wisconsin, just up at the northern Mich border. I took one boat a 12 foot really light one that Kenny Endter build and my 44 gas burning deflector Merc. Bill and Ross flew in from Macomb IL with their A and B loopers and we decided to run every hydro class. A, B and F were obvious and the way the schedule worked out, we could keep the 44 on the boat and run C (step down one class for a deflector and another for gas, right?) but we had to run the B in D. Nobody complained about the 44 in C but when I beat Marty Stahl's D Konig with the little B looper, his dad, Ralph, got on the pipe and raised a stink about our motor being too small. As I remember we did get thrown out but it was pretty chicken s--t.

[Tim Chance]

Sorry Tim, but how did you think a KG4 could possibly beat a Konig A?

I

Because the Mercury would start on the first pull and come back into the pits on its own power, not at the end of a tow rope.

[russhill]

Well, I was cheating and didn't get DQd. It was about 1952, I was about 17 and even more obnoxious than I am now if you can believe that. I had a brand new Banjo Neal clone.

In those days, we had boat weight and boat and driver weight In C Alkie/pro it was 150 pound boat and 315 pound driver adnd boat--no engine weight (since we all ran the same.) A buddy of mine and I carried the new boat a couple blocks down the street from my home to his father's supermarket.

We stood the boat on its transoms handles on a huge produce scale with a three foot dial--149 pounds. In my usual cocky manner, I said perfect! It'll gain a pound of water and besides race scales are not that accurate.

I got two of my career best starts and won both heats--didn't take an ounce of spray. Marine Major "Red" Thomas was Weigh Master. He said the boat weighed 149 pounds. I said, "No way, I weighed this boat on a precision scale at the Greater Central Market with several dozen witnesses, which was true. He called the Chief Measurer, Henry Wagner (a long time friendly rival) over to weight the boat. It weighed 149 pounnds. I repeated my true but bullshiiit spiel until finally he said, Get out of here KID, we have boats to inspect."

You know, I still feel bad about my smartassedness 60 years later.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Well, I was cheating and didn't get DQd. It was about 1952, I was about 17 and even more obnoxious than I am now if you can believe that. I had a brand new Banjo Neal clone.

In those days, we had boat weight and boat and driver weight In C Alkie/pro it was 150 pound boat and 315 pound driver adnd boat--no engine weight (since we all ran the same.) A buddy of mine and I carried the new boat a couple blocks down the street from my home to his father's supermarket.

We stood the boat on its transoms handles on a huge produce scale with a three foot dial--149 pounds. In my usual cocky manner, I said perfect! It'll gain a pound of water and besides race scales are not that accurate.

I got two of my career best starts and won both heats--didn't take an ounce of spray. Marine Major "Red" Thomas was Weigh Master. He said the boat weighed 149 pounds. I said, "No way, I weighed this boat on a precision scale at the Greater Central Market with several dozen witnesses, which was true. He called the Chief Measurer, Henry Wagner (a long time friendly rival) over to weight the boat. It weighed 149 pounnds. I repeated my true but bullshiiit spiel until finally he said, Get out of here KID, we have boats to inspect."

You know, I still feel bad about my smartassedness 60 years later.

Russ, regarding this, "I still feel bad about my smartassedness 60 years later" no you don't. LOL

[russhill]

Yeah, I do. I just beat the system, not the boat race I beat the small time guys helping us run the boat race. Now if it were the IRS, which I have beaten 12 times, that's different.

I have a theory about cheating (except the IRS). To cheat in racing or other life situations, you have to look into the mirror and say to yourself---"I'm NOT GOOD ENOUGH" to play on a level field, I gotta cheat." And if you cheat and win, you've confirmed your inferiority. Rationalizations, like "those other guys are cheating and winning is not good a enough excuse,

[jrome]

Here in Texas we call that the Code of The West. IF its not your dont use it. If it is not true dont say it. and if it is wrong dont do it.

[Ron Hill]

Russ has really Hi-Jacked my thread. This thread was about how I got disqualified when I wasn't actually cheating. In my brother's case he WAS cheating.

Jimbo and I weren't and still aren't very mechanical. My dad sawed mine and Jimbo's spark plug wrench out to about 4 inches long. My old man said we could tighten those spark plugs as tight as we wanted with those short wrenches....Before man dad cut the wrenches off, we'd just tighten those plugs til they got loose, then loosen them a half turn.

Jimbo found this brass elbow fitting that just fit perfect on a KA Mark 20-H carb, it made a great spray shield. Jimbo had figured out how to screw it on so it didn't fall off. Roy Miner was the inspector at Salton Sea.


Roy disqualified Jimbo for having a Velocity Stack on his carb. Hell, Jimbo and I didn't know what a velocity stack was. But, Jimbo got tossed out, and didn't get a third place trophy that day.

[Ron Hill]

If I had all the money I spent of MOD VP over the years, I might have ....well. Anyway, my friend, Fred Hauenstein, was working for Mercury, and he was also OPC Vice President or at least he was on the commission. He might even have been President of APBA at the time.

Just for the record, at the time I had a Johnson powered Sleek Craft (white), a Mercury powered Sleek Craft (red) and a maroon Lavey with a Yamaha. Freddy convinced the OPC commission that everyone should run stock blocks to make things even.....and stock heads...except Mercury, they could run hundred off heads....

Shocker!!!, the Mercury MOD VP motor could usually win....

So Harris wants to take my MOD VP to Walker Lake. I basically told him, that with Walker being high elevation, that my Yamaha wouldn't run for sour apples. AND I wasn't going with him, as Walker Lake and the moon have much in common. But Jimmy wanted to race.

Well, he won MOD VP. Henry Wagner was the inspector. He looked at the boat and engine, and said, "Old Man Hill's motor (my dad built it) huh??? Jimmy said, "Yes, sir!" Henry said get it out of here. As Jimmy walked away, he added, "But I changed the heads!"

I didn't get mad at Jimmy over it, I was discussed with APBA for passing rules that caused a manufacturer, who now has 60% of the outboard's world market, to not be competitive.

Of course, at the time I had more than 20 Yamaha V-6 short blocks my dad had built out of Yamaha's trash bin....plus two or three motors Yamaha GAVE ME!

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Russ has really Hi-Jacked my thread. This thread was about how I got disqualified when I wasn't actually cheating. In my brother's case he WAS cheating.

Jimbo and I weren't and still aren't very mechanical. My dad sawed mine and Jimbo's spark plug wrench out to about 4 inches long. My old man said we could tighten those spark plugs as tight as we wanted with those short wrenches....Before man dad cut the wrenches off, we'd just tighten those plugs til they got loose, then loosen them a half turn.

Jimbo found this brass elbow fitting that just fit perfect on a KA Mark 20-H carb, it made a great spray shield. Jimbo had figured out how to screw it on so it didn't fall off. Roy Miner was the inspector at Salton Sea.


Roy disqualified Jimbo for having a Velocity Stack on his carb. Hell, Jimbo and I didn't know what a velocity stack was. But, Jimbo got tossed out, and didn't get a third place trophy that day.

Your dad & mine were so much alike. MY dad did the same thing on a spark plug wrench. I still have it in my tool box & show it to every one when I help them with their motors & the reason why.

[Ron Hill]

I was trying to find Ted's name on Google the other night. I was told he played for the Semi Pro Football Team the l.A. Dons. They played at Gilmore Stadium, same place that they race politically incorrect cars called "Midgets". But, I could not find a list of players for the the Dons.
When Ted started racing he built his own glass boats called "Pumpkin Seed", they were 9 foot Rinker Type round bottoms. They were slow as hell compared to "Real" hydros. His "Pumpin Seeds" were really runabouts, but too short for APBA rules.
So Ted, bought a Mishey Hydro and a Mark 20-H. Mishey boats were short for a 20-H and had a bad habit of blowing over. Ted made a gas tank that bolted to the steering bar (Kind of a "sissy bar" for a hydro). This tank kept him from blow over. Well the mother inspector, NOT my dad told him he could not have a gas tank outside his boat for safety reasons and disqualified Ted. Of course, no one told Ted he was disqualified. So, he raced again with his steering bar tank. The same Inspector disqualified Ted again.

About a month later, we get a letter telling us Ted May has been "Beached" for a year for two disqualifications. By this time six months has gone by. Ted took his tank off the steering bar, waited out his suspension and started racing again.

Ted may have "Cheated" using "Spunk" in his fuel, but that isn't what put him on the beach for one year...

[Ron Hill]

I was to race the Paris Six Hour Enduro on 10/8/73. Seems I stayed home from Paris, France and my daughter was born on the day of the race 10/8/73.

That November there were at the Kilo trials at Parker, Arizona. I went to the kilos and ran my Scotti through the kilos at 108 MPH to get in the Evinrude 100 MPH Club.

Jimmy Hauenstien had his Bell Craft Hydro there with a "Factory" Evinrude on it. The problem was, Jimmy was not qualified to run the kilos because he had NOT finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a race during the last year. So, Jimmy asked me to drive his boat through the kilo.

I registered in "S" Class and ran a two way average of 122 MPH and change. I was pretty pumped about the record, 14 MPH faster than my Scotti. Well, the inspector, Glen Schaid, said pull the port covers. My dad pulled the port covers and said, "Oh my god this motor is illegal." I say it is from Evinrude is must be legal....

Well, the new "S" motors were going to be legal in 30 days, but this one was NOT legal and I got tossed.....Something about running 122 mph in a kneeldown hydro, no capsule......still makes me wish I'd have gotten the record...

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I was to race the Paris Six Hour Enduro on 10/8/73. Seems I stayed home from Paris, France and my daughter was born on the day of the race 10/8/73.

That November there were at the Kilo trials at Parker, Arizona. I went to the kilos and ran my Scotti through the kilos at 108 MPH to get in the Evinrude 100 MPH Club.

Jimmy Hauenstien had his Bell Craft Hydro there with a "Factory" Evinrude on it. The problem was, Jimmy was not qualified to run the kilos because he had NOT finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a race during the last year. So, Jimmy asked me to drive his boat through the kilo.

I registered in "S" Class and ran a two way average of 122 MPH and change. I was pretty pumped about the record, 14 MPH faster than my Scotti. Well, the inspector, Glen Schaid, said pull the port covers. My dad pulled the port covers and said, "Oh my god this motor is illegal." I say it is from Evinrude is must be legal....

Well, the new "S" motors were going to be legal in 30 days, but this one was NOT legal and I got tossed.....Something about running 122 mph in a kneeldown hydro, no capsule......still makes me wish I'd have gotten the record...
Ron,

I didn't think that there were specs on "S" class motors. As an employee of a manufacturer you had to race "S" class & since I was employed by Lawn-Boy they made me run in "S" class, and if I recall other then cubic inches it was run what you brung. Nevertheless, there might have been some specs of sort.

[Gene East]

Your dad & mine were so much alike. MY dad did the same thing on a spark plug wrench. I still have it in my tool box & show it to every one when I help them with their motors & the reason why.

Does anyone still have one of the AC spark plug wrenches that Gerry Waldman used to hand out? They were preset to "brake over" at the proper torque setting. There was no thread stripping with them

Sure wish I still had mine!

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Does anyone still have one of the AC spark plug wrenches that Gerry Waldman used to hand out? They were preset to "brake over" at the proper torque setting. There was no thread stripping with them

Sure wish I still had mine!

Gene,

I had asked him for one & he responded that they were NLA, so I guess that I was too late.

[Ron Hill]

When they built the 8 carb Super Strangler and the Johnson (Stinger), there we specs filed with APBA. November's APBA meeting, the new "S" Specs were filed and Jack Leek sent Jimmy Hausenstein a new motor. After I got DQ'd at Parker, Jimmy took his Bell Craft to Modesto, in February of '74, but the kilos were Saturday and the circles were Sunday. At the time, there was no mention of breaking a record on Saturday and then placing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the previous calendar year.

So, Jimmy had Pat Murphy drive his boat through the kilos. Pat drove the Bell Craft called Kathern P. Herzig (Jimmy's future wife's name) to a "U" and an "S" Class kilo record. Both records were with the same boat, motor and propeller, and the speed was around 122 MPH about what I'd run at Parker.

By February, the motor was legal under APBA rules.

Jimmy later named the boat Orange Blossom Special, I think....I'm going to ask Freddy...

ADD:

Try me, my dad knew the rules and if he'd have thought Glen Schiad was wrong, everyone would have known about it...My dad agreed with Glen...The irony, had I applied for the "S" Class record in my Scotti, I would have been granted the record. Even though Pat Murphy would have broken it in February!

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

When they built the 8 carb Super Strangler and the Johnson (Stinger), there we specs filed with APBA. November's APBA meeting, the new "S" Specs were filed and Jack Leek sent Jimmy Hausenstein a new motor. After I got DQ'd at Parker, Jimmy took his Bell Craft to Modesto, in February of '74, but the kilos were Saturday and the circles were Sunday. At the time, there was no mention of breaking a record on Saturday and then placing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the previous calendar year.

So, Jimmy had Pat Murphy drive his boat through the kilos. Pat drove the Bell Craft called Kathern P. Herzig (Jimmy's future wife's name) to a "U" and an "S" Class kilo record. Both records were with the same boat, motor and propeller, and the speed was around 122 MPH about what I'd run at Parker.

By February, the motor was legal under APBA rules.

Jimmy later named the boat Orange Blossom Special, I think....I'm going to ask Freddy...

ADD:

Try me, my dad knew the rules and if he'd have thought Glen Schiad was wrong, everyone would have known about it...My dad agreed with Glen...The irony, had I applied for the "S" Class record in my Scotti, I would have been granted the record. Even though Pat Murphy would have broken it in February!

Ron,
I'm not disputing anything that you & your dad may have been witness to or part of, but when they introduced the 8 barrel carbs, they were produced in quantities at the Kenosha facility where Gibbs worked. They were introduced as "U" class motors so that anyone could purchase one through a dealer. Us that worked OMC factory essentially used the same motor but had to run "S" class, the only real difference was at the 225's, Havasu, Parker or any other factory entered race, motors came off of the truck from Leeks group & assigned by Jack. I never was aware that there was a separate "S" class spec as no "S" class motor existed for the general regular racer.

[Ron Hill]

Maybe Murphy will remember the details. Maybe, had I entered "U" I'd have been legal.

[Ron Hill]

Hi Ron:
FYI: I asked Freddy if he thought what I posted was anywhere near the "TRUTH", here is part of his anwer.


Mostly right. It was a couple years after the development of the 8-carb. I was the one who sent Jim the engines. Then when I was in California for Christmas 1973, we went to Millerton lake and set up the boat for the kilos. Pat broke the records at Modesto in 1974 with the same boat/prop/etc. The boat was named "Kathleen P. Herzig" for the S record (120.268)and "Bill" for the U record (119.624)! (not OBS) {My Mod 50/OE record boat (107.629) in 1975 was the Orange Blossom Special.} These records were in the book as "S" and "U" and then renamed MOD 120 (from S) in 1978 while the U record disappeared.

Jim also made runs at the kilos, but Pat's were fastest - I think Jim got to run afterwards and the power heads were on their way to junk by then???

Interesting that the S record was faster than the U record - a result of the power heads running out of water at top speed and starting to self-destruct - more with each pass.

Fred

[Ron Hill]

Re: "U" and "S" Kilo Record

Show Details

---- Ron Hill <ronhill@hillmarine.com> wrote:
> Well, if you tested at Christmas 1973, this is after I'm saying I got DQ'd driving Jimmy's boat at Parker....I drove for a two way average of 122 MPH, the same weekend I went 108 MPH in my Scotti for Evinrude's 100 MPH club...


Hi Ron:

Yes. The engines went back and forth between the two events. Running a bit trimmed under, the water pickup came out of the water at top speed and the engines started to melt. We learned that after the Modesto kilos. Probably accounts for the loss of speed from Parker???

Fred


ADD:

Fred seems to "FORGET" that I always got more speed out of boats than others...LOL!

LAST ADD:



---- Ron Hill <ronhill@hillmarine.com> wrote:
> Well, I can tell you this. The motor was tucked as far as it would go...and I know the *** end was off the water about as much as the sponson depth (2 1/4 inches).
I forgot you were working for OMC then...

Do you recall if there were engine specs for "S" in the fall of '73?

Hi Ron:

I'm not, but there should have been. If I remember, I'll see in the old files at Mercury the next time I get there.

Fred

Last, Last ADD:

I called Pat Murphy this morning, not answer, but asked him to call back.

[Ron Hill]

Pat is a funny guy, he's always fun to talk to, he doesn't "BULL **** " you, he just talks. No "BIG STORIES" but always full of information.

Well, he recalls the kilos, he said he went 120.268 MPH. (37 years ago and he can recall the exact MPH). He and I disagreed about "U" Class and "S" Class. He said, "That "S" class was the open class and "U" was the "Stock" class." I told him he had it backward, but he disagreed. I think I'm right, BECAUSE I go DQ'd in "S".....

Anyway, he thought they blew three motors that weekend. (Freddy didn't mention the number three...) He said Jimmy drove both "S" and "U" through the kilos, but was slower than Pat (Had Jimmy been fastest, qualifying at Sunday's race would have been legal).

Pat added, "But Donny Hauenstein (Youngest of the three Hauenstein boys) drove through the fastest, but was not qualified for the record. For the record, Donny was probably the best driver in the Hauenstein family, but getting Donny to wake up and go to driver's meetings and things like that were difficult. Donny was a free spirit.

Pat said, "Henry Wagner and Bud David (Motor inspectors at the kilos) didn't like the grinding in the ports, so they impounded the motor for two weeks." Henry and Bud both agreed grinding was OK, but NOT THAT MUCH.....It took two weeks but Pat got both records approved.

[Beale Tilton]

S class was a max of 100 CI built in the USA running on gasoline. Otherwise unrestricted. Nothing inside the block meeting these specs would be cause for DQ.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

[QUOTE=Ron Hill;113713]Pat is a funny guy, he's always fun to talk to, he doesn't "BULL **** " you, he just talks. No "BIG STORIES" but always full of information.

Well, he recalls the kilos, he said he went 120.268 MPH. (37 years ago and he can recall the exact MPH). He and I disagreed about "U" Class and "S" Class. He said, "That "S" class was the open class and "U" was the "Stock" class." I told him he had it backward, but he disagreed. I think I'm right, BECAUSE I go DQ'd in "S".....

Anyway, he thought they blew three motors that weekend. (Freddy didn't mention the number three...) He said Jimmy drove both "S" and "U" through the kilos, but was slower than Pat (Had Jimmy been fastest, qualifying at Sunday's race would have been legal).

Pat added, "But Donny Hauenstein (Youngest of the three Hauenstein boys) drove through the fastest, but was not qualified for the record. For the record, Donny was probably the best driver in the Hauenstein family, but getting Donny to wake up and go to driver's meetings and things like that were difficult. Donny was a free spirit.

Pat's correct, "U" was the stock class where everyone racing could purchase the respective motors from Merc or OMC. S was the unlimited class & where I stated previously employees of the companies had to run "S". And, as mentioned by Beale, the S class was basically unlimited . The S engines are what the OMC truck brought to the races where we raced head to head with Mercury.

[Ron Hill]

If "U" was the stock class, I never ran "U", I always ran the "OPEN" Class. So, what you guys are saying is I got disqualified for having a LEGAL motor???

All I remember was that I thought it was "S" Class.

Coolest part..The Thanksgiving Kilos were pretty much all inboard in those days. I was anxious to show the inboarders more speed. I had just run 108 MPH in my Scotti. So, when Jim asked me to drive his boat, I just jumped in, hooked up the kill switch. Jim pushed me off the trailer and I was floating looking for a stater switch or key switch...I yelled back and said, "Hey, how do you start this damn thing?" Jim said, just touch those two wires together.....I did, and bang, she started....

I started to make a pass and the bow was way too high, so, I balked and trimmed it way down. I got on the throttle and she just flew through the kilo, I kept trimming it down all through the kilo....I turned it around and got down and back to get some speed, then climbed forward and hung on.

I put that mother on the trailer and they announced 122 MPH, fastest pass of the weekend.

All these inboards with chromed everything....Jimmy Hauenstein's little outboard that didn't even have a starter switch just posted fast time. I've always been an outboarder, still am.

When I got DQ'd I didn't care...I figured those inboarders had just seen real smoke on the water!!!!

[Beale Tilton]

Ron,
I can't remember what I had for breakfast today and never drove for the factory. My memory of events of 40 -50 years ago is pretty good. Factory drivers raced at times in R, S, T, X U, UI, UU. Just saying

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Ron,
I can't remember what I had for breakfast today and never drove for the factory. My memory of events of 40 -50 years ago is pretty good. Factory drivers raced at times in R, S, T, X U, UI, UU. Just saying

Beale, we employees were only allowed to race S & T, this was to keep the special engines in the hands of employees away from the other drivers who didn't have access to them.

[Beale Tilton]

John,
Not disputing employees. My statement pertained to drivers on the factory teams.

[Beale Tilton]

Add to my list the Mod classes of OPC also

[Ron Hill]

But I had a hard time remembering lunch....Finally, salad and turkey burger...

My point, I really didn't race my tunnel, unless it was a "Factory" Race or an "Out Law". So, probably, when I signed up to run my Scotti through the kilos, I probably didn't know what class I was. I just came to run over 100 MPH to get in the Evinrude 100 MPH CLUB.

When Jimmy told me to drive his boat, I doubt I signed any entry blank, I just "Jumped in" and went.

All I know was, "I wasn't cheating, but I got disqualified".

[Ron Hill]

Waterford Reservoir water, in Modesto, California, was always very fast water. I had broken the A Racing Runabout record in the fall of 1966 at Parker. 70 plus for an A Runabout was considered pretty fast. I had driven Carl Myers boat and engine. The boat was Carl's BU that I had designed, and my dad and I had build. I raced this boat at the 1965 Nationals. I think this record was the reason Harry called me.

Harry Bartolomei called me and asked if I wanted to drive his boats at the John Ward Trophy Race, 1967, in Valleyfield and at DePue? I said, "Sure"..He said, "Why not come to Modesto and run the kilos and run the record 1 2/3 mile course?"
So, in February, 1967, we headed to Modesto for the Kilos.

I remember see Gerry Wallin and his wife at dinner the night before the kilos. Leonard Keller always called Gerry "The Phantom",. This was my first time I met Gerry. I'm not sure he was the fastest outboard driver in the world then or not. But I was impressed to have met him.

The next day I drove Harry's 500 CC Runabout (C Runabout) and Harry's D Runabout to new Kilo Records of 88 MPH in "C" and 92 in "D"...Not sure the speeds are right, but in that ball park. The next day I drove Harry's F Runabout, a Quincy Cross flow on a Konig gearcase to the F Runabout competition record....I had help Bill Rucker broke down and so did Rich Fuchlin.

Three World Records on a weekend was pretty cool, considering the speeds were faster than I had ever driven on the road...

Fast forward two months. Both C and D Runabout records were NOT approved by APBA, they were approved as UIM Records, but APBA didn't approve the new Konig in time for a record. The F Runabout record was approved.

I wasn't cheating, but lost two APBA records.