OMC Mod VP Motors

[Storz]

Just wondering what Johnson/Evinrude motors were used for ModVP racing in the 80s? Were they factory specials, or modified by individual race teams?

Thanks :D

[Bill Gohr]

Depends on when really

[Storz]

Depends on when really

Beautiful! Tell me more :D

[Mark Poole]

Second Effort in Florida made some OMC Mod-VP engines. When you mention OMC, Mod-VP and the 80's in one sentence there is one name that comes up....Al Stoker. He had the fastest cross flow and looper OMC's ever put on a Mod-VP.

[Storz]

Reading up it looks like some of them were based off of the GT200 and XP200 models?

[sharpeye Mike]

Second Effort in Florida made some OMC Mod-VP engines. When you mention OMC, Mod-VP and the 80's in one sentence there is one name that comes up....Al Stoker. He had the fastest cross flow and looper OMC's ever put on a Mod-VP.

What else did Second Efford do? I bought a 49 cu. OMC formula E with a Second Efford sticker on the cowl and I was wondering if they had anything to do with it.

[Bill Gohr]

What else did Second Efford do? I bought a 49 cu. OMC formula E with a Second Efford sticker on the cowl and I was wondering if they had anything to do with it.

If the Formula E came from there it was just a decal, that may be where we stored the leftover 75 shorts, SE built the Mod motors, 1,2, and 3, the ones pictured are the ones I built, actually I still have the one one the gray Allison, back then there were several guys building their own engines, Stoker obviously being the most known. Some of his stuff he built, some came right from OMC. But it didn't really matter who you were, or where you were from, if you were making power during those days and needed help you all called the same guy......Ricky

[sharpeye Mike]

Thanks Bill
Mike.

[Ron Hill]

Depends on when really

Take a second, and look at the two gearcases on those Second Effort MOD Evinrudes.

When Dick Sherrer and I wrote the MOD VP RULES we said the water pick up could not be moved. Note how one gearcase had a bigger skeg, for better cornering. But also, not how the water pick ups were lower n the big skeg. So, you could run the big skeg higher and still make the corners.

Great pictures of Second Effort Motors.....

[Bill Gohr]

Heres one you didn't see much of, thats the Laser motor

[Woodduck]

Awesome Bill! More pictures please.:)

[Bill Gohr]

I'll have to look and see what other ones I have, but what I do have is the motor that is on that Allison still hangin on a rack

[Woodduck]

Oh, so the CCC was on the green XR and now it is on the rack. Does it have a 4 sale tag?

[Bill Gohr]

Sorry it does not, I am looking for a boat to throw it on, I'd like to run it again, maybe after that, kinda like my V4 I ran it so now I can sell it.

[Powerabout]

Were those gear cases cast or fabricated?

[Bill Gohr]

Those nose cones are added, the different skegs are stock just fromm different year engines, the wider skeg was just a 79 case

[Smokin' Joe]

Just wondering what Johnson/Evinrude motors were used for ModVP racing in the 80s? Were they factory specials, or modified by individual race teams?

Thanks :D

I only go up to 1983 in that class. By then, Mercury dominated, OMC did not put out a competitive motor. The only Evinrude that was in the hunt was Al Stoker's. I quit before SE put out those nice looking motors shown in the pictures above. How did they run against the Mercury looper?

[Dabull1919]

Bobby Kitchens had a "in" with Second Effort and got some great stuff. He got one of these X-flow stage three Mod-VP engines and hung it on an Allison XB-2002 basser. It was very inpressive but had blowout problems. I was shocked at the excelleration it had. Seems it pulled real hard all the way to the blowout point somewhere in the 90`s. I`m not sure if it was the even firing crank. To long ago i guess.

DB

[Ron Hill]

Bobby and I did a lot of business together. Besides being in the trucking business, Bobby loved golf and made a "BOOK" on the side.

When Bobby "Made up his head" he was hard to change. I sold him the last Baker V Bottom ever made. He wanted a boat for that Mississippi River race. He needed power to beat the Merc guys, I sent him to Second Effort.

Gary Garbreacht and Bobby became close because Gary needed "Haulers" for the Second Effort race trailer and Bobby wanted fast motors. Bobby had 135 trucks, Gary had motors.

Bobby's "IN" was pretty much just a good business deal for both Second Effort and Bobby.

Except for Stoker's OMC, no cross flo V-6 Mod VP motor ever had an even fire crank. (That I know about). Stoker's cranks came out of the TRIPLE C race motors.

[Bill Gohr]

Well very few had even fire cranks in them, both of the pictured engines have them there might even be one up in the attic too, I know I have the timer bases

[Dabull1919]

About the even fire crank, Did they sound differant?

DB

[Ron Hill]

ALL the LOOP OMC V-6's had even fire cranks, I thought.

Every CROSS FLOW except Stokers were not even fireing, at least that is what I thought.

Yes, even fire cross flows had a distintively different sound the a regular 235 OMC CROSS FLOW. I never heard Pual Bender's cross flow sound like Stoker's.

[Ron Hill]

Well very few had even fire cranks in them, both of the pictured engines have them there might even be one up in the attic too, I know I have the timer bases

Both of those Second Effort Evinrudes have even fire cranks??? Are they 161 cube or 149???

[Bill Gohr]

Those engines are 161's, and they are even firing, and yes all loopers are even firing, you could tell when the crossflow had a crank in it, when it went by, just close your eyes and it sounds just like a merc

[Dabull1919]

Maybe this is a silly question but here goes. Did APBA completly erase Mod-VP from the OPC rule book? They still carry other old classes but i couldn`t find Mod-VP. If they killed it completly, Why? I know it doesn`t run anymore in the former configuration but does it take some kind of members vote to kill it?

DB

[Smokin' Joe]

Maybe this is a silly question but here goes. Did APBA completly erase Mod-VP from the OPC rule book? They still carry other old classes but i couldn`t find Mod-VP. If they killed it completly, Why? I know it doesn`t run anymore in the former configuration but does it take some kind of members vote to kill it?

DB

You find EP, GP and JP listed in a modern rule book?!

[Dabull1919]

No i didn`t. But i did see all the sst classes from the 45`s up. I never ran EP, GP or JP but i did run Mod-VP and thats why i was asking.

DB

[Smokin' Joe]

No i didn`t. But i did see all the sst classes from the 45`s up. I never ran EP, GP or JP but i did run Mod-VP and thats why i was asking.

DB

V-bottom racing was headed for the grave by 1985. Mod-VP killed it, big prize money there, seldom any for the smaller classes. Then Mod-VP was died, I don't know the reason for that.

SST 45 and 60 are tunnel classes. SST 45 is the more active class by far, Fred Miller fathers it and sees that good prize money is offered. We run two well-paying races in Tx., Port Neches and Orange, SST45, F1Sport (not an APBA class) and Tri Hulls. SST 45 and F1Sport boats come from as far as Miami and Canada to run. Anyway, the best of boat racing had been seen by 1985, and I'm glad to have experienced it.

[Ron Hill]

1985:

Jimmy and Charlie Strang were the best of friends. Charlie was President of OMC. JImmy Jost was Dirictor of Publicity for Evinrude. Strang had this delusion of building a racing engine the would beat Mercury into oblivion.

Jost on the other hand, had a vision that STOCK MOTOR RACING had a place. Jimmy had been Stock VP. He promotoed marathons like the Chicago to Milwaukkee to Chicago for stock motors.

In early 1979, I along with Dick Scherrer wrote rules for MOD VP. Dick and I were never really "Friends" but we were adversaries either. Both of us had been around boat racing long enough to know that OMC and MERCURY were NOT the boat racer's friends. he were in business to sell outboard motors and if they could USE the boat racers they would.

In attempt to stop the trend of dwindling entries at Parker, I had written rules for Divisions. These Divisions had been in effect since 1973, when I started buying trophies for the Enduro.

Dick and I decided we needed a class where the FACTORIES would have to PLAY, but would also help pay our bills. We wrote the rules for MOD VP saying the engines had to be in "warrantable condition". A stock motor covered under warrant tee.

Jimmy Jost liked this new "MOD VP" class and started selling motors to anyone who wanted to race for a 60% discount. By the 1980 Havasu Classic, we had 22 boats, all Evinrudes. We could buy a new 235 HP Evinrude for $2,200, retail was $4,500 and some of us could defer payments for a year.

By about 1984, with the help of Powerboat Magazine, Eliminator Boats, Sleek Craft Boats, Hydro Stream Boats, Nordic Boats, Laser boats, Stoker Boats, Havasu was fast becoming NASCAR on water.

1985 may have been a turning point.... When was Bill Muncey killed. When did Broc Glover drive Mod VP?

[Dabull1919]

Those engines are 161's, and they are even firing, and yes all loopers are even firing, you could tell when the crossflow had a crank in it, when it went by, just close your eyes and it sounds just like a merc



Bill, What was the advantage of this "even firing crank"?

DB

[Bill Gohr]

The EF crank was all about acceleration, turned a 2.6 into what it should be, as well, sounded really nice, idled like a dream, like I said before, it sounds just like a Merc then. I had a 150XP on my stream, used it for skiing, what a ski motor. Problem was the price, SE was selling them for like 3K.

I pulled the Mod3 out of moth balls a couple weeks ago, going to clean the carbs and put it on something.

[Dabull1919]

Sounds like fun. Is this Mod3 the one with the CCC front?

[Bill Gohr]

No that one is gone this is the Mod 3 with 3 carbs, this one was actually quicker, the 6 carb motor had the cool factor but way over carbbed.

[Powerabout]

I thought the last of the production crossflows had even fire cranks?
or is my memory fading?

[Bill Gohr]

Your memory is fading, the only grossflow that "came" with a EF crank was a Mod 3 ordered from SE

[Smokey]

[QUOTE=Smokin' Joe;118975]V-bottom racing was headed for the grave by 1985. Mod-VP killed it, big prize money there, seldom any for the smaller classes. Then Mod-VP was died, I don't know the reason for that.

In my humble opinion the causes of MOD VP demise were:
1-IOGP was paying big prize money, so all of a sudden many racers felt they should be paid that also. Kinda like paying Daytona purses to the Saturday night short-track racer just because they both race stock cars.

2-The capsule rule injected a large cost to refitting an existing boat or the cost of getting a new capsule boat.

Because of #1, some racers refused to support smaller races. That is where we all started, and where public awareness was born. Most of these races were in public areas that could not charge admission so the prize money was based on local sponsorship and entry fees, therefore purses were limited. Doesn't anyone remember towing all night to a race and winning a paper certificate and MAYBE enough money to cover dinner for the crew?

I raced OPC local classes, and SE in the 70s, and MOD-VP in the 80s (US2, 1984), so I got to see the "glory days". We ran for fun, trailered with a beat-up station wagon (no haulers) and stayed at local racers' houses or in cheap motels. And had a BLAST!

[Smokin' Joe]

The tow from Houston to Havasu, a seedy motel in Ozona, the mountains around Tucson, and Saguaro
cacti along I-10. Then a better motel in Havasu City. Race prep, jacking around with the competitors,
eating at some Havasu restaurant or diner. The good ol' days. Nothing like 4 hrs. of driving in a race.



[QUOTE=Smokin' Joe;118975]V-bottom racing was headed for the grave by 1985. Mod-VP killed it, big prize money there, seldom any for the smaller classes. Then Mod-VP was died, I don't know the reason for that.

In my humble opinion the causes of MOD VP demise were:
1-IOGP was paying big prize money, so all of a sudden many racers felt they should be paid that also. Kinda like paying Daytona purses to the Saturday night short-track racer just because they both race stock cars.

2-The capsule rule injected a large cost to refitting an existing boat or the cost of getting a new capsule boat.

Because of #1, some racers refused to support smaller races. That is where we all started, and where public awareness was born. Most of these races were in public areas that could not charge admission so the prize money was based on local sponsorship and entry fees, therefore purses were limited. Doesn't anyone remember towing all night to a race and winning a paper certificate and MAYBE enough money to cover dinner for the crew?

I raced OPC local classes, and SE in the 70s, and MOD-VP in the 80s (US2, 1984), so I got to see the "glory days". We ran for fun, trailered with a beat-up station wagon (no haulers) and stayed at local racers' houses or in cheap motels. And had a BLAST!

[Ron Hill]

[QUOTE=Smokin' Joe;127296]The tow from Houston to Havasu, a seedy motel in Ozona, the mountains around Tucson, and Saguaro
cacti along I-10. Then a better motel in Havasu City. Race prep, jacking around with the competitors,
eating at some Havasu restaurant or diner. The good ol' days. Nothing like 4 hrs. of driving in a race.

My brother and I always joked that we've driven a hundred thousand miles with wet "Crouches". Timmy Seebold asked me once, "So, you were like my dad and Grandpa dring all night to sleep in the car to race the next day?" I said, "YES." Jimbo, Ernie Dawe, Ted May and me went to Vallejo, California once to race, when we left home we had no idea where "Valley Joe" was. We drove all night and most of the day Saturday to get there. I don't think we took a short cut becasue I know we went through San Jose on the was from SoCal....We raced for trophies....Goddam Submaine" came up in the middle of the course, we thought the Russians were attacking, we dove home by driving all night listening to Wolfman Jack.....We didn't race for money. We didn't race to be famous. We just "RACED". It was fun, we bowled Saturday night, there was only one day of racing, we knew about points but THOSE GUYS BACK EAST always won anyway.

In came the FACTORY WARS and the losers in this war was boat racing.

I wrote the MOD VP Rules, and nothing agains the Texas Group, I had never seen a VP boat when I wrote the Parker Rules......I has seen a Southwind, Sleek Craft with, as is known today, "MOD VP" bottoms. I wanted more boats racing the Parker 9 Hour than just Four Mercury Factory Boats and 1 or 2 Evinrude Factory Boats. I called MOD VP the OUTBOARD "DOOR SLAMMER" Class. As NASCAR, in those days, was called "THE DOOR SLAMMERS" as real race cars didn't have doors or starters.

Where MOD VP went WRONG in when Mercury made the BRIDGE PORT motor that was not for sale and OMC had some cools tuff of a "FEW". NASCAR ahs tried to keep speed in a safe range. NASCAR is in the business to make money. Mercury and OMC ENJOYED saying who would win with their product. When the final curtail call came, boith Merc and OMC wanted out before Yamaha KILLED them.

APBA is not about promoting boat racing, APBA is a sanction body......you are to promote boat racing if you want boat racing promoted. APBA has been the long arm of OUTBOARD MARINE and MERCURY for many, many years.

Anyway, my point, if you want to race boats today, you need to plan to pay to get to race. Spectators aren't paying enough to make boat racing profitable. It is your sport, you are going to have to pay for it.

My thinking is this, I don't mind paying, but I also want a say it what is happening! MOD VP was the best OUTBOARD CLASS ever, everyone I've ever talked to about boats know the term "MOD VP"

[Dabull1919]

All throughout the 80`s i remember sleeping in the back seat on the way home because i had to be at work Sunday night at 12:00 midnight. some of those races in Mississippi and Alabama made me cut it real close but we was there at the next race anyhow. Those were the days.

DB

[Smokin' Joe]

I got an Evinrude free in 1979 but then ran 3rd, that irritated Tom Ireland, so
they sent it elsewhere after Havasu. Kenny Shaw won with his free Johnson,
Bill Muncy/Art Carlson got the other free Evinrude.


$2,200 of 1980 dollars would be worth: $6,128.13 in 2012

[Skoontz]

Muncie died in October of 1981. It stuck in my head because Bill always had a boat at the Chicago Boat Show at McCormick Place and everty now and then would make an appearance. I got to talk to him for quite a while in 1972. He was quite a guy to take time out to talk to a high school kid. I remember seeing the crash on channel 7 news in Chicago like it was yesterday. The boat cartwheeled, was one of the most spectcular crashes I had seen to date.

[shark]

Joe, Tom Ireland had a FE boat in the early to mid 70`s. Kenny Shaw Allison Johnson was a headache to Tom. Do you think that Tom Ireland was upset that you finished 3rd, or that Kenny Shaw With a Johnson won?