At long last - Merc 666!

[Tim Kurcz]

For your six cylinder Merc lovers, be sure to attend Mark & Elaine Suter's AOMCI swap meet October 20 where you'll see the completed 666. A series of pics will be posted here as the project develops. Enjoy!

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Thanks for posting the latest project. Should be a fun engine. Is it starting with a60 or 66 cubic inch engine? Seem to recal that someone had built one with 9 carbs way back in time.

Alan

[CanadaScott]

6 cylinder, 6 carbs, 6.... ?

Looks awesome so far!

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi Alan,

Even though it's not legal for racing, the "666" is based a "Super Marathon' because pistons are readily available - big brother to the "444". It will have Parker stacks and Speedmaster, mounted on one of my (very short) steel towers. Hopefully you'll be able to see it at Suter's. More pics.

Tim

[Allen J. Lang]

Hi Tim, won't be able to attend Mark's AOMC meet, so, please post pictures. From what I understand, Mark's collection is now having space problems. Spoke to Mark at the racers reunion at DePue a couple of weeks ago. Sure miss the MI days. It was great seeing Mark and the Harrison engines he brought. Even met Kay Harrison.
Keep those ideas coming. :)

[Tim Kurcz]

For Alan and Al,

You betcha, images will be posted after the meet. For now, will post construction images as it progresses.

About the 9-carb six: This was an F-alky owned/raced(?) by Joe Michelini at one time; not sure who built it. Pretty sure there are images in this site in the "random shots from the pits" section. Very complicated looking. Unfortunately, there are no reports on how it worked. Perhaps a reader who knows will respond: Gene East or Bruce Summers?

Given the very tall Speedmaster, this "all-Mercury" engine (Doug Kay's suggestion) is sized for my Ropp hydro for a few fun runs - gotta hear that sweet Merc six sound, and wake up the neighbors every now and again!

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Found this in the Mercury 40-H thread.

Alan

[Powerabout]

I've never read anywhere about carb inlet location versus crank angle
I wonder if and how much difference that makes

[Tim Kurcz]

Found this in the Mercury 40-H thread.

Alan

Hi Alan,

That image is a clever piece of photoshop by Sam Cullis, a very knowledgeable Merc six fancier. Within a few weeks, it will be reality.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

I've never read anywhere about carb inlet location versus crank angle
I wonder if and how much difference that makes

Note sure if there is any difference about carb angle to the crank, except that straight-in is best. Unfortunately, Tillotsons are tall so there's no way to stack them. About 22 degrees offset each way (total 44) is the minimum splay for clearance between carb bodies (appx 1/16"). Interestingly the 444 uses factory couplers, as will the 666.

The 444 set lowest ET at IOA Hillsdale, it's first race with Rich Welch driving. It now resides in the Mark Suter collection. See "Outboard History - Name that Outboard" section on this site for detail. I'm hoping the 666 will deliver another order of magnitude better. It will be interesting to see how it "stacks up" against my loop triple OMC's.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Found this in the Mercury 40-H thread.

Alan

A couple more images of the work in process. Spray toolmakers dye, a die grinder, and patience make the job easy. If the weather is good Saturday the turbo will be out. If not a full shop day will push the 666 ahead.

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Very nice Tim. Will enjoy hearing it run. Maybe we could run it with the 75-H mod engine.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Very nice Tim. Will enjoy hearing it run. Maybe we could run it with the 75-H mod engine.

Alan

Great idea - let's do it! Next year we will get Rich's six as well (perhaps others - Sam?), the sound of multiple six stackers on the course would be fantastic. Perhaps at the AOMCI Constantine meet? One thing for sure: We need a top quality videographer to record the views and sweeeeet music!

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Count me in. If we could get 6 or so on the course it would be a thing to see.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Count me in. If we could get 6 or so on the course it would be a thing to see.

Alan

Ohhh, that sounds great! We need to find out who's got them...... Are any others willing to dust off Merc sixes to fill up the field?

Tim

[R Austin]

I have 4 cabovers that I am trying to get on the water at the same time. I will be at Constantine next year.

[Tim Kurcz]

I have 4 cabovers that I am trying to get on the water at the same time. I will be at Constantine next year.

Whew-haa Dick,

Your fleet of four would be awesome! The event should be open to any 75H, Mod, or Alky -Quincy loopers welcome! Any others interested to join?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

More today, lots more this weekend!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here, the adapter castings are assembled with the crankcase and roug bored through.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here the roughed in crankcase is shown with the block. Much work to go.

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

Am I the only one who's loving this series of photos!

Jeff

PS: Interesting that TIm bolts the reed holders to the block where the old carbs bolted on. I did it the same way with my El Crude-Oh setups. Any other similarity ends there!

[Droll-l6]

Am I the only one who's loving this series of photos!

No, subscribed to the tread the first day :) ...


Arne Kjetil

[Aeroliner]

Tim it is looking great. As you know Doug used your castings for the exhaust of the 75-H he built. If you need any info on that your welcome to run over and take some measurements. I have some photos also if you would like them. He water cooled the filler block.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim it is looking great. As you know Doug used your castings for the exhaust of the 75-H he built. If you need any info on that your welcome to run over and take some measurements. I have some photos also if you would like them. He water cooled the filler block.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

Doug and I spoke yesterday, we will get together soon. Meanwhile, here are a few more pics.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Am I the only one who's loving this series of photos!

Jeff

PS: Interesting that TIm bolts the reed holders to the block where the old carbs bolted on. I did it the same way with my El Crude-Oh setups. Any other similarity ends there!

Thanks for your interest Jeff. Here are a few more,

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Am I the only one who's loving this series of photos!

Jeff

PS: Interesting that TIm bolts the reed holders to the block where the old carbs bolted on. I did it the same way with my El Crude-Oh setups. Any other similarity ends there!

Hey Jeff,

Your observation about the carb flange mounting is instructive for those that may want to build similar mods. Note that the diagonal ribs remain untouched - they are needed to support the crankshaft thrust loads. Also, they are convenient hard points. The only other attachment option is the crankcase flange, which would require a complicated, difficult to machine, and heavier bridge casting.

Tim

[Bob Rusnak]

Would be legal in Pro on a runabout (1100 CCR) Would love to see it entered at the nationals.....Bob

[Tim Kurcz]

Another great opportunity to hear that sweet sound (& smell). What engines are commonly run in 1100 runabout? Is the class run in the midwest?

A little more 666 progress....

Tim

[Bob Rusnak]

In the 1100 Runabout class they mostly run Konig or Koney 700 cc engines, maybe a few 800+ engines and a VRP or Rossi. There is a Merc 6 cylinder run of Alky which can beat the Konigs. I believe it is a 66 ci. out of Calif. If your 666 isset up it should be competitive. The class is run in Constantine, Mich. and at the Pro Nationals. Too bad there are not more races for this class, It is a real crowd pleasure. ....Bob N-96

[JohnsonM50]

Note sure if there is any difference about carb angle to the crank, except that straight-in is best. Unfortunately, Tillotsons are tall so there's no way to stack them. About 22 degrees offset each way (total 44) is the minimum splay for clearance between carb bodies (appx 1/16"). Interestingly the 444 uses factory couplers, as will the 666.

The 444 set lowest ET at IOA Hillsdale, it's first race with Rich Welch driving. It now resides in the Mark Suter collection. See "Outboard History - Name that Outboard" section on this site for detail. I'm hoping the 666 will deliver another order of magnitude better. It will be interesting to see how it "stacks up" against my loop triple OMC's.

Tim
'Tall order' :p Good Luck Tim :cool:

[Powerabout]

Nice project Tim
Isnt the crankcase compression ratio going to be quite a bit lower or is there more clever stuff to come?
good luck
Powerabout

[Tim Kurcz]

'Tall order' :p Good Luck Tim :cool:

Unfortunately, the "666" is not legal for 850cc Mod because it's 66 cubic inches (Mark 78), and has 6 carbs (the Mark 75 - 60 cubic inch engine is legal with 3 carbs). Even though it's 66 cubic inches and has a much better breathing intake system, it's still a deflector, and heavier than the 49.9 OMC. Might be close.........

Tim

[Mark75H]

Can be made lighter ... I'm certain :D

[Tim Kurcz]

Nice project Tim
Isnt the crankcase compression ratio going to be quite a bit lower or is there more clever stuff to come?
good luck
Powerabout

Good question - you betcha there's more coming. The intake casting and reed plate locate pyramid reed block apex within .060" of the rod swing. More importantly, the reed cages are padded top and bottom with .250" thick plates This makes up for some/much of the duct increase.

The 444 project proved dramatic breathing improvement which is expected to benefit the 666 likewise. Though not legal for Mod, I'm building the beast just so I can hear that sweet music and rattle the neighbors occasionally.

That it can be run in 1100cc PRO is a pleasant, unexpected benefit. Might spike the avgas with methanol, not sure if it will ever see pure alky. But, you never know!

Tim

PS Here the duct castings are trimmed to match the carb adapters.

[Tim Kurcz]

Can be made lighter ... I'm certain :D

Rest assured Sam, I'll make every effort to reduce weight. But the engine will be equipped with a Merc Speedmaster which is no lightweight even after bobbing 5" off the tail. Though the very tall case reduces weight of the tower, it will be in the 45# range combined. Ad a 120#-ish fully dressed powerhead and you get 165-170#.

So it will just have to make brute power to compete. Assuming 2 HP / Cubic Inch at the crank can be achieved (on gasoline & oil), we're looking at 120 HP at the propshaft. Not shabby, but I'm guessing the Koenig, VRP, Rossi, etc. make similar numbers at much less weight. Throw in some alky though.......

Stated before, I'm building this out of a great appreciation for that Mercury six cylinder shriek - six pulses per revolution - like an F1 car at full tilt boogie!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Would be legal in Pro on a runabout (1100 CCR) Would love to see it entered at the nationals.....Bob

Hi Bob,

Jimmy Robb says the class is 2-person runabout, which sounds like fun to me. Was planning on building a big runabout for Top-O this winter that might also work for 1100cc runabout. But, I'll need some help with boat specs. Can you send the basics and post some pics? That would be very helpful.

Tim

[chris3298]

Tim, I sure would like to know how the heck you got into all this? I mean where did you earn to modify all these engines, trial and error??

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim, I sure would like to know how the heck you got into all this? I mean where did you earn to modify all these engines, trial and error??

Rebuilding blown up Merc "green top" twins for a Mini-Max built in my youth, I scrounged local marine dealers for parts annually. As a result, my first real job became apprentice mechanic at Fairlane Boats & Motors in Detroit, a Kiekhaefer Mercury dealer that stocked parts for and serviced all racing outboards. Frequented by local racers, the place became known as "home of the clamp-on kids" under the direction of master mechanic John Carlsen.

Two years later, legendary engine builder Bud Parker cogratulated me for perfect 25SSH starts at Ocoee, an act that began a new path in life. Though he built many stocks, Bud's heart was in Mod and Alky: In 1975 he talked me into a 25Mod. In 1988, I went to the big boats running D, E, and Formula-E Mod, learning machining & pattern making working at Bud's shop evenings and weekends for 10 years to support the habit.

Bud retired after 55 years engine building in 1998, whereupon I acquired his machine tools, jigs, fixures, patterns, and have been building Mods, a few stocks, and even two of Bud's own alky loopers ever since. In total, I've been swinging marine wrenches and machine handles for 40 years - yikes!

Yes, there was a lot of trial and error. A substantial "box-o-shame" was generated in the process. Over the years I've come to know many fine racers, enthusiasts, and mentors that inspired my work. The 666 photo series is a gift for all to see the inner workings, an inspiration for the next generation of engine builders. With the machine tools and information available today by the web: If you can dream it, you can build it!

Tim

[chris3298]

Rebuilding blown up Merc "green top" twins for a Mini-Max built in my youth, I scrounged local marine dealers for parts annually. As a result, my first real job became apprentice mechanic at Fairlane Boats & Motors in Detroit, a Kiekhaefer Mercury dealer that stocked parts for and serviced all racing outboards. Frequented by local racers, the place became known as "home of the clamp-on kids" under the direction of master mechanic John Carlsen.

Two years later, legendary engine builder Bud Parker cogratulated me for perfect 25SSH starts at Ocoee, an act that began a new path in life. Though he built many stocks, Bud's heart was in Mod and Alky: In 1975 he talked me into a 25Mod. In 1988, I went to the big boats running D, E, and Formula-E Mod, learning machining & pattern making working at Bud's shop evenings and weekends for 10 years to support the habit.

Bud retired after 55 years engine building in 1998, whereupon I acquired his machine tools, jigs, fixures, patterns, and have been building Mods, a few stocks, and even two of Bud's own alky loopers ever since. In total, I've been swinging marine wrenches and machine handles for 40 years - yikes!

Yes, there was a lot of trial and error. A substantial "box-o-shame" was generated in the process. Over the years I've come to know many fine racers, enthusiasts, and mentors that inspired my work. The 666 photo series is a gift for all to see the inner workings, an inspiration for the next generation of engine builders. With the machine tools and information available today by the web: If you can dream it, you can build it!

Tim

Thank you for that and I agree I have learned to fix many things from the web. Please continue on with this thread i'm enjoying every post of it. :)

[Tim Weber]

Are you planning on running an overdrive like Lon Stevens did?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Are you planning on running an overdrive like Lon Stevens did?

Tim

There is no plan to run an overdrive at this time. For show and demos, the 666 will run a 1:1 RH Speedmaster (reminds me a an old pin-drive 8" Dia X 13"P prop must be found). For serious competition, it will run a 1:1 LH OMC 45SS, for which I've got several props.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here is the latest until next week.

The reed plate and carb adapters have been fitted and some weight relief cut in. Reed cage layout and truncation will come this weekend - sensitive work. There's plenty to go, stay tuned, and keep your questions coming.

Tim

[Powerabout]

whats planned for the exhaust?
Didnt those old engines have a different firing order to later ones that prevented simple 3 and 3 pulse tuning?

[Powerabout]

did anyone ever convert one to rotary valve, seems like its possible on an inline merc

[Mark75H]

Yes, Rich Austin has. Look on his thread about the Looper Beast project.

[Tim Kurcz]

All early (Mark series) Mercs were alternate firing twins, or stacks of them phased evenly around the crank circle. So, pulse tuned exhaust is not possible. As a result, the 666 will run Parker converging stacks. Sam can confirm, but I'm pretty sure the first pulse tuned Merc six was the 1000 in about 1962.

Otherwise, I saw a rotary valve Mark 30H at Ted Millers about 10 years ago. Painted yellow, it was likely built for alky in an attempt to beat the Koenig, the builder unknown. Similar to a Champion Hot Rod, the questions is always; how well did it work? Will take a trip to Dick Austin's thread and check out his work.

For a moment I'd given thought to turbocharging the project, because of the easy to change external pyramid reeds. But then it wouldn't have that beautiful stack of carbs, or fearsome exhaust elbows and megs. Also, deflectors aren't the best choice for forced induction because of the pistons domes. So, it stays the "666".

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Whoa! What an incredible piece of artwork!!! Sure wish the thread was open to comment...... A complete crank up design and build of a Merc crank based RV looper complete with billit aluminum block. The historical section and photos are great, would like to see the earlier iterations published. I've gotta see this engine/engines in person. Count on me at Constantine!

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

Tim:

What reeds will you be using?

Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim:

What reeds will you be using?

Jeff

Boyesen #133 two stage reeds. Images of the reed box mods will be posted next week.

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

Slick! Will you make the reed holders as well?

Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

Slick! Will you make the reed holders as well?

Jeff

Nope; too much delicate work. They are early versions of the OMC loop triple 6-petal boxes, truncated to make petite, perfect pyramids. Images will be posted next week.

The goal in this and most of my projects is to use the greatest number of proven off-the-shelf parts to keep cost and machine time down. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Many operations are needed to make the 666, but short of the castings, most are extensions of pre-existing technology, practically guaranteed to work.

Tim

[JohnsonM50]

Nope; too much delicate work. They are early versions of the OMC loop triple 6-petal boxes, truncated to make petite, perfect pyramids. Images will be posted next week.

The goal in this and most of my projects is to use the greatest number of proven off-the-shelf parts to keep cost and machine time down. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Many operations are needed to make the 666, but short of the castings, most are extensions of pre-existing technology, practically guaranteed to work.

Tim
Excellent building Tim, an inspiration to RaT motor techs on any level.

[Tim Kurcz]

Just realized an opportunity for you to compare unfinished 2009 work with 2012. Here is the semi- completed 666.1 with the mostly completed 444.3. The reed plate and pyramid reed boxes are shown in great detail. After final machining, both will be bonded/bolted in prep for final assembly. Enjoy.

Tim

[JohnsonM50]

Just realized an opportunity for you to compare unfinished 2009 work with 2012. Here is the semi- completed 666.1 with the mostly completed 444.3. The reed plate and pyramid reed boxes are shown in great detail. After final machining, both will be bonded/bolted in prep for final assembly. Enjoy.

TimOn the 444 you switched the port carb linkage to the outside?

[Tim Kurcz]

On the 444 you switched the port carb linkage to the outside?

Good observation. Butterfly shafts were reversed on the port carbs to allow closer spacing. This allows the smallest possible displacement angle to maintain the closest to straight in mixture flow.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

These images should answer a few more questions. Front end machine work continues on the 666 this weekend. Reed valve reliefs will take hours of careful layout and millwork to keep crankcase volume tight. Enjoy!

Tim

[byrdsperformance@tds.net]

Tim' are these mercury cage's or omc ?

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim' are these mercury cage's or omc ?

Hi Mike,

Those are OMC loop triple cages. These are the early style with large screw attach points. To convert them, aluminum 10-24 screws are installed with high strength Loctite and allowed to cure. Then the cages are milled into pyramids. Finally, the attach holes are re-located, drilled and tapped. A lot of delicate work!

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

Tim:

I have a few of those OMC cages 'hanging around' if you need them.

Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim:

I have a few of those OMC cages 'hanging around' if you need them.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Will check inventory this weekend and get back to you.

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Great progress on the new engine. Looks great and I truely want to hear it run. It will be great if we can do a 6 cylinder MOD fest one day. Be so good to hear a bunch on the water again.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi Tim,
Great progress on the new engine. Looks great and I truely want to hear it run. It will be great if we can do a 6 cylinder MOD fest one day. Be so good to hear a bunch on the water again.

Alan

Thanks for your support.... Plan on an event next year. Possible boats are Van Weele, Kurcz, Welch, Austin (as many as 4 boats), Brill/Weinert (rumor is they just bought the Dunn rig) and others. That's a minimum of 5 so far.

Others with a stock, mod, or alky Merc 60 or 66 cubic inch six interested to run a special event please respond. Hydros for sure, perhaps runabouts too. Let's get a roll call going.

Tim

[Aeroliner]

If all goes well obver the winter I plan on restoring my Jerry Waldman Sid. Doug Kay is finishing up my two 75-H engines so might also bring that to run with our MOD engine.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

If all goes well obver the winter I plan on restoring my Jerry Waldman Sid. Doug Kay is finishing up my two 75-H engines so might also bring that to run with our MOD engine.

Alan

Wouldn't it be great to see a full field? How many of you will dust off your rigs?

Just want to make sure there's a pro videographer there. Can you spell youTube?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here, aluminum screws are installed with Loctite 271 (high strength). Loctite is dripped into the holes and the screws driven slowly to extrude the liquid into the threads by hydraulic pressure, assuring complete thread fill.

Once cured, most of the screw will be milled away along with the angled portion of the reed cage. This leaves a solid flat flange surface into which re-located mounting holes will be drilled and tapped in the newly modified pyramid reed block.

[Powerabout]

Is there a secret formula to determine reed area versus cylinder capacity

[Tim Kurcz]

There is no formula that I know of as pertains to displacement. There are five metrics that I use: 1) Combined port width at the apex. and 2) Combined effective reed area (outer 2/3 of reed). 3) Ratio of duct volume consumed to either of the above. 4) What will reasonably fit the duct without affecting ccase compression, and 5) What do the racing rules say: Are there any limitations or prohibitions?

Observations are that later model cages have steeper angles than earlier designs. This may have been be more related to packaging than flow capability. Also, engines accelerate better more with more reed area. My thinking is greater area allows reeds to respond more quickly even though top end performance is little affected.

Unless you work research with a flow bench (or dyno) and have a penchant for wringing the most out of your project, you're better off scouring the SAE database for tech papers on the subject. This is most certainly a well researced topic.

Tim

PS If any of you have a formula and care to share, please save us all some time & $$$.

[Powerabout]

I have a few SAE papers from a couple of Japanese guys on various things that are very good reading but not focused on reeds.

The angle is interesting I think OMC has some documentation on red angle re low speed and high speed differences

I have one on reed simulation that is in the public domain, I will dig it up.

I have always tried to find data on the 500cc GP bike engines but that clearly is locked away
Cheers
EDIT Found it

[Tim Kurcz]

I have a few SAE papers from a couple of Japanese guys on various things that are very good reading but not focused on reeds.

The angle is interesting I think OMC has some documentation on red angle re low speed and high speed differences

I have one on reed simulation that is in the public domain, I will dig it up.

I have always tried to find data on the 500cc GP bike engines but that clearly is locked away
Cheers
EDIT Found it

49901499024990349904

Is this the simulation you refered to? A brief review proves the tools interesting.

http://www.torqsoft.net/reed-petal-design.html

The power of the internet for research is fantastic! The fact is engine architecture, packaging, and economics throttle unbridled design.

Anyway, here is the latest progress. The hardest part is done!

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Engine is really getting there fast. At the rate your moving you will be running it in 4 weeks. Your making so many chips that you could sell bags of them to help with the cost of creating the work of art.

Alan

[R Austin]

All early (Mark series) Mercs were alternate firing twins, or stacks of them phased evenly around the crank circle. So, pulse tuned exhaust is not possible. As a result, the 666 will run Parker converging stacks. Sam can confirm, but I'm pretty sure the first pulse tuned Merc six was the 1000 in about 1962.

Otherwise, I saw a rotary valve Mark 30H at Ted Millers about 10 years ago. Painted yellow, it was likely built for alky in an attempt to beat the Koenig, the builder unknown. Similar to a Champion Hot Rod, the questions is always; how well did it work? Will take a trip to Dick Austin's thread and check out his work.

For a moment I'd given thought to turbocharging the project, because of the easy to change external pyramid reeds. But then it wouldn't have that beautiful stack of carbs, or fearsome exhaust elbows and megs. Also, deflectors aren't the best choice for forced induction because of the pistons domes. So, it stays the "666".

Tim

Your comment about the firing order changing with the 100 Merc caught my attention. Haveing been a Mercury dealer for 13 years I never saw a in-line 6 that was not cylinder pairs that fired 180 degrees apart. To the best of knowledge, that is true, thru the last in-line ( 1500 ) 6 cylinder. All in-lines share a common reed block and carb, having cylinder out of 180 dregree phase would cause havic with the induction system. However this ran a chill thru my spine because an out of phase crank could only be possible with an external reed motor, the TII X!!! I had bought a TII X crank for the Beast becuase of the seven mains. I checked that crank and sure enought, it is an out of phase firing crank. That crank will not work in the Beast because it has the siamees exhaust ports and must be 180 degree firing. Back to the planning board for new reed - bearing block replacements. Anyone need a TII X crank?

[Droll-l6]

Anyone need a TII X crank?
Drop me a PM and you can be off with it :cool:

Arne Kjetil

[Mark75H]

I checked that crank and sure enought, it is an out of phase firing crank. That crank will not work in the Beast because it has the siamees exhaust ports and must be 180 degree firing. Back to the planning board for new reed - bearing block replacements. Anyone need a TII X crank?

I was going to tell you that, but you said "no comments or suggestions"

[Ron Hill]

Chad Hill had a couple of Yamaha V-6 motors. He decided to line bore the cases and install Merc V-6 cranks, rods and pistons. Everything went fine, until we went to start it....60 degree timing base is different than a 90 degree....If it had run it would have gone rum, rum, rum rum bum bum bum, rum....Only couls us 2 grand...saved the pistons, cranks and rods for Mercs....Seemed like a great idea at the time!

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi Tim,
Engine is really getting there fast. At the rate your moving you will be running it in 4 weeks. Your making so many chips that you could sell bags of them to help with the cost of creating the work of art.

Alan

LOL! Never intending to build more than one, the castings were not fully developed. A good guess is 20% of the molds are converted to chips. The image below is just from fitting the cages. The vac is getting heavy on its wheels.......

Tim49918

[Tim Kurcz]

Your comment about the firing order changing with the 100 Merc caught my attention. Haveing been a Mercury dealer for 13 years I never saw a in-line 6 that was not cylinder pairs that fired 180 degrees apart. To the best of knowledge, that is true, thru the last in-line ( 1500 ) 6 cylinder. All in-lines share a common reed block and carb, having cylinder out of 180 dregree phase would cause havic with the induction system. However this ran a chill thru my spine because an out of phase crank could only be possible with an external reed motor, the TII X!!! I had bought a TII X crank for the Beast becuase of the seven mains. I checked that crank and sure enought, it is an out of phase firing crank. That crank will not work in the Beast because it has the siamees exhaust ports and must be 180 degree firing. Back to the planning board for new reed - bearing block replacements. Anyone need a TII X crank?

Somewhere in my archives is a patent filed by Mercury documenting the 120 degree spacing exhaust pulse tunig as applied to the in-line six. Will dig for it an post. Meanwhile, good luck with your "Beast"

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Slick! Will you make the reed holders as well?

Jeff

Even this effort is less taxing than custom building cages. A big plus is the well developed, petite OMC reed box. Also, the reeds are proven off-the-shelf items from Boyesen. Getting closer.........

Tim499194992049921

[Powerabout]

why is it bikes seem to prefer one large reed per side than the outboards with many?

[Tim Kurcz]

why is it bikes seem to prefer one large reed per side than the outboards with many?

Interesting question: My guess is historical design guidelines and parts interchangeability for outboard products that last 30+ years. Motorcyles and snomobiles have a much shorter lifespan and will see more rapid design cycle (and obsolesence).

Supporting examples are the Boyesen "RAD" cages used in my "Kestrel" OMC loop triple Mod which use a single bottom leaf with three openings, and a single upper leaf covering three openings per side (six total). The same design is used by Boyesen for OMC 8-port cage replacement reeds.

[Tim Kurcz]

Your comment about the firing order changing with the 100 Merc caught my attention. Haveing been a Mercury dealer for 13 years I never saw a in-line 6 that was not cylinder pairs that fired 180 degrees apart. To the best of knowledge, that is true, thru the last in-line ( 1500 ) 6 cylinder. All in-lines share a common reed block and carb, having cylinder out of 180 dregree phase would cause havic with the induction system. However this ran a chill thru my spine because an out of phase crank could only be possible with an external reed motor, the TII X!!! I had bought a TII X crank for the Beast becuase of the seven mains. I checked that crank and sure enought, it is an out of phase firing crank. That crank will not work in the Beast because it has the siamees exhaust ports and must be 180 degree firing. Back to the planning board for new reed - bearing block replacements. Anyone need a TII X crank?

Sorry to hear about your dilemma. Better to find out about it sooner than later. I'm hoping another Merc crank will do the job! Good luck,

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

The last somewhat complicated part to make is the reed plate:Many holes, critical allignment. Good layout & dimensioning from the start made this one easy. Well, perhaps the three 444's before had something to do with it. One thing for sure, the shop needs a serious cleaning!

Tim

[R Austin]

Sorry to hear about your dilemma. Better to find out about it sooner than later. I'm hoping another Merc crank will do the job! Good luck,

Tim

Not a big dilemma. I will use a standard 1500 crank and make a bearing insert for a center main block to hold a single row bearing set to replace reed assemblies.

[Tim Kurcz]

Not a big dilemma. I will use a standard 1500 crank and make a bearing insert for a center main block to hold a single row bearing set to replace reed assemblies.

Great news - the 1500 crank is durable and plentiful. I'd like to believe there's a readily available split bearing kit available somewhere. When do you plan completion?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

The 666 is marching right along. Only one mistake so far (duplicated three times), which may prove inconsequential. The #1-3-5 carb adapters were drilled and tapped for prime injector nozzles. An hour later, I remembered the carbs have nozzles built in. That's what Heliarc is for......

Here the roughed-in reed plate is shown fitted to the crankcase with modified cages attached. Next comes final fitting and carb adapter machining. If it rains this weekend (likely due to Hurricane Isaac), the front end will be completed. Otherwise, I plan to run the turbo (missed the weather window last weekend).

Enjoy!

Tim

4993449930499314993249933

[Tim Kurcz]

The carb adapters are fly-cut three at a time to assure planar alignment. Now that they are machined, it's off to the weld shop to plug the prime injector holes finished in error (not enough material to secure carb studs). If all goes according to plan, the adapters will be finish machined and studded this weekend. Look for mockup images next week.

Tim499784997949980

[Tim Kurcz]

Stange, last night the carbs and adapters post was submitted but it didn't take. Hmmm.

Anyway, here the carbs are shown with velocity stacks. Each has its own prime injector nozzle, though butterfly shafts need to be reversed on the port carbs. Also, throat extensions must be made to allow clearance.

So it's off the the welding shop after work to plug extra holes in three carb adapters. Then a few drilled & tapped holes and it's time for a mock up.

This weekend the bench will be cleared of other engines to prep the 444 and 666 for the duct bonding process. Also, the turbo will run to confirm jetting in prep for next Friday at Hillsdale.

Look for pics of the mockup Monday.

Tim49983

[byrdsperformance@tds.net]

Tim'
Your are a true master of the craft. As allway's your project's are great.
Look's as if trottle linkage's will require a bit of rigging for this one.
btw. Hope the turbo perform's well, (GREAT)
Mike

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim'
Your are a true master of the craft. As allway's your project's are great.
Look's as if trottle linkage's will require a bit of rigging for this one.
btw. Hope the turbo perform's well, (GREAT)
Mike

Thanks for your compliments Mike, this project has been brewing since 2010. Linkage will be OMC factory style carb-to-carb links with a snowmobile split cable, one to each bank. Not sure if the pull will be from bottom or top yet, but the dead man will connect somewhere near the bottom of the "tower of power".

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Hmmmmmmmmm, let's see here. Enthused about the project and eager to push ahead, I quickly glance at images of the original 444 to confirm prime locations (#1 & #3). Then I proceed to carefully locate, drill, and tap three perfect prime injector ports for the 666: Total time about 30 minues.

A day later I realize the carbs have built in nozzles, worse the ports are directly under the carb mounting studs - duh! After 1-1/2 hours driving, an hour and $15 at the weld shop, and another hour to belt sand, re-locate holes, drill and tap the adapters, and they are ready for fitting.

Had I taken three minutes to actually THINK about what I was doing, the project would have been 4 hours further ahead. Pretty good investment in time. Yeah, yeah, gramps taught me years ago to think first, measure twice, and cut once. So much for my memory! Just goes to prove sometimes you've gotta slow dow to go faster!

Will be up early machining throat extensions and reversing butterfly shafts............499854998649987

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Careful carb fitting reduced offset angle from 22 to 20 degrees per side and still required 5/8" thick extensions for clearance. Here you see the six extensions in rough. An hour of bandsaw and belt grinding tomorrow and the front end can be mocked up.

Oh yeah, that's one whopping drill bit!

Tim49995

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
It really is looking great. One note though if you run you machinery backwards it puts the chips back and fills unwanted holes and cuts. I know I have tried it often with great results.

Alan.

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi Tim,
It really is looking great. One note though if you run you machinery backwards it puts the chips back and fills unwanted holes and cuts. I know I have tried it often with great results.

Alan.

Thanks Alan,

Hmmm, always wondered what that "reverse" switch on the mill was for. Had I known that years ago, many hours and $$$ would have been saved!

From the forward gear; throat extensions are now compete. I can see the mockup coming this afternoon, after a few more pounds of chips are swept....

Tim49999500005000150002

[Tim Kurcz]

Pounding in some shop hours paid off this weekend. Finishing touches were applied to the reed plate and carb adapters. Intake system fitting is coming along nicel, but the shop is trashed, time for some cleanup.

Tim50018500195002150022

PS for Sam: Spent half an hour removing 3 ounces from on the adapters. Will use aluminum reed cages and take unneeded weight from the exhaust system - notably the filler block - when the time comes. There isn't much more to cut. The goal is to simply makn gobs of power to offset conversion weight.

[Tim Kurcz]

OK everybody, feast your eyes on this: All front end machine and some hand work is complete, carb butterflies reversed, and carbs fitted. Yet to go is finish hand work and particle blasting, cleaning, and the bonding process.

Following that, the filler block and stacks must be built. Then comes porting, bore & hone, cranktrain prep, and final fitting, cleaning, and assembly. And oh yeah, still need to mate the tower to clamps and stub the driveshaft, fit a water tube, etc.

500245002550026

Will post a few detail pics later today. Meanwhile, enjoy!

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Tim,
Progress is really moving forward. At the rate your going it will be running by the weekend and on the water the following. Now the fun starts putting the systems on the engine. Really looks good. Have you done any port work yet? We will have to work on the 6 cylinder outing for next year. It would be great if we could get 8 to 10 on the water.

Alan

[Powerabout]

Whats the lowdown on reeds not in line with the carb?
Cant measure the difference?
widens the torque band?
Cheers

[BJuby]

Just wanted to add that this project is amazing. What great work you do, and I am certainly jealous of your access to all the tools, not to mention your know-how. Is this going to be a padded block? Can't wait to see the next step!

[Tim Kurcz]

Whats the lowdown on reeds not in line with the carb?
Cant measure the difference?
widens the torque band?
Cheers

Hey Powerabout,

Reed gages themselves are installed in-line to provide the tightest package relative to the crankcase using existing architectural features. As a result, there is insufficient room to put Tillotson KA or OMC 1-bbl float carbs in-line:They must be splayed for clearance. It's not perfect, but breathes way better than the original Merc reed cage system.

Does this answer your question?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Just wanted to add that this project is amazing. What great work you do, and I am certainly jealous of your access to all the tools, not to mention your know-how. Is this going to be a padded block? Can't wait to see the next step!

Thanks for your compliments - this is truly a fearsome looking engine. Heck, it might even run good as it looks! No need to be jealous - just find yourself a machine shop and get creative. To answer your question: The block will run stock compression: At 66 cubic inches it's not legal for Mod, so there's no need to crush it. Deadline for completion is October 15, just in time for Mark Suter's October 20 AOMCI show in Byron Michigan. My 13' Ropp hydro "Midnight Star" will be rigged with the completed 666 and displayed there for all to see.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here are port and starboard images of the 666, plus a front view of the brothers. Enjoy!

Tim

500405004150042

[A/B Speedliner]

Tim Look at the number of post credited to you. Neat, 444 post showing the 444 and the 666. Some of us have warped minds, is not 666 the devils number?
David

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim Look at the number of post credited to you. Neat, 444 post showing the 444 and the 666. Some of us have warped minds, is not 666 the devils number?
David

You're sure enough right, 666 is the "number of the beast", though purely coincidental. 444 = 4 carbs 44 cubic inches, 666 is 6 carbs 66 cubic inches. Should I chose to built a Mark25H powerhead, it will be a 220.

Building so many custom engines, I found the need to establish names to remember critical features. My Mercury's have numerical codes, early OMC's have names or an acronym, while later OMC's have signs of the zodiac or predatory animals (because there are not enough zodiac signs).

How do you keep track of your engines?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim,
Progress is really moving forward. At the rate your going it will be running by the weekend and on the water the following. Now the fun starts putting the systems on the engine. Really looks good. Have you done any port work yet? We will have to work on the 6 cylinder outing for next year. It would be great if we could get 8 to 10 on the water.

Alan

Looks are deceiving, Alan. There's much work to do before pulling the rope. I'll be happy to have the fully rigged, fully functional 666 rigged in time for Mark's swap meet. Next year, a special event for combined MK75H (stock), 850cc (mod), or 1100cc (alky), would surely fill a field. It will be a sight/sound to see. Am still thinking Contantine and Hillsdale, possibly Depue. How about you?

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Well it is a hard choice to pick a site. Maybe we could get folks to pick a location that would get the greatest number of engine to show up. It would be great also if we could get a sponcer for the event. I will bring the 75-H MOD engine and a stock 75-H. I think it might be possible to get a couple other 75-H engines on the water. I know Doug Kay was restoring 4 of them so we will see.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Chad Hill had a couple of Yamaha V-6 motors. He decided to line bore the cases and install Merc V-6 cranks, rods and pistons. Everything went fine, until we went to start it....60 degree timing base is different than a 90 degree....If it had run it would have gone rum, rum, rum rum bum bum bum, rum....Only couls us 2 grand...saved the pistons, cranks and rods for Mercs....Seemed like a great idea at the time!

Hey Ron,

Just realized your post was not responded to. The Yam with Merc internals was ambitious enough, but not sure about the timer base theory. If the firing order is the same, and cylinders are spaced evenly about the crank circle, the timer base should have worked regardless. Was firing order the problem?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

For Powerabout and others interested in 444-666 internals, a couple of images to fuel your fires. These are historical from the 444.1 project. The 444.2 and 444.3 have aluminum reed cages to save weight. The 666 will have aluminum cages as well.

Though I haven't measured the difference, reed cage stuffing makes up for at least some of the duct volume gained with the pyramid reed setup. Does this make sense now?

5008450085

Tim

[BJuby]

What is the purpose of the plates on top and on bottom of each reed cage?

[Tim Weber]

My guess is to stuff the crankcase to lower the overall volume and since he is using external reeds, no need for the Merc set up.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

My guess is to stuff the crankcase to lower the overall volume and since he is using external reeds, no need for the Merc set up.

Tim

Hey Brad,

Tim is correct - The plates serve dual purpose: 1) Plugging the existing reed openings which allows use of the existing reed cages as crank bearings. And 2) Stuffing the case to make up for some/all of the volume growth in the pyramid reed duct.

What I'm surprised at is nobody mentioned the piston......

Tim

[Tim Weber]

2 ring set up an cut skirt?

Tim

[Aeroliner]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?6393-Mercury-Mark-40-H/page21

The link above shows the inside of the 444 we built. If you follow this thread you can see the whole build story.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

2 ring set up an cut skirt?

Tim

Yep, a Wiseco 2-ring. By why cut the skirt? And why on that side?

Tim

[Powerabout]

the skirt will hit the stuffer plates on the old reed blocks

[Tim Kurcz]

the skirt will hit the stuffer plates on the old reed blocks

Good try, but the stuffers are slightly under the reed cage diameter; there is no interference.

Try again!

Tim

[R Austin]

For a better window into the transfer passage.

[hydroplay]

I hope the plans to run some of these motors at one or more midwest races pans out. I am especially curious to see and hear a stock 75-H run. It probably has no unique sounds like the alky jobs do but I've never heard one run that I know of. I've seen plenty of deflector and loop 6s run but never a stock one.

[Tim Kurcz]

For a better window into the transfer passage.

Dick has it: Eliminate the skirt that decends below the cylinder sleeve to open the transfer passage.

Are there any other mods possible to further improve that transfer?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Good idea! We should request that stock sixes leave the pits before the stackers start up. Plans are to commission a professional videographer to record the event. The Constantine AOMCI meet and IOA Hillsdale are likely next year.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Loctite "Fixmaster" aluminum filled epoxy is used to bed and seal duct castings to the crankcase. Working time is 60 minutes, so there's no need to rush. After glass beading the matching parts and cleaning surfaces with denatured alcohol, bonding and cleanup for the 666 was a little over two hours. Most of the effort is spent with a rag and laquer thinner modeling the thickening paste after bolt up. As Dick Austin points out, modeling bondo or epoxy is best be done before the resin is cured. If you wait too long, better plan on lots of machine work!

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Progress is great. Can't weight till nex year at Hillsdale. Should be a fun event if all the folks bring a six.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi Tim,
Progress is great. Can't weight till nex year at Hillsdale. Should be a fun event if all the folks bring a six.

Alan

I'm hoping for a full field. Here are the rest of the images. Now it's on to porting, boring, and honing.

Tim

[David_L6]

Here is a different cage that could be used in one of those builds that doesn't have to comply with any rules. Slightly larger and maybe easier to mount. 5029050291

[Tim Kurcz]

[QUOTE=David_L6;124858]Here is a different cage that could be used in one of those builds that doesn't have to comply with any rules. Slightly larger and maybe easier to mount.

Hi David,

The 4-port cages look interesting. Have you compared internals dimensionally? The fact it's a pyramid already will save some machine work. Do you mind sharing the application?

Tim

[David_L6]

I haven't done much measuring. They look bigger to me though. Those are from a McCulloch.

[Tim Kurcz]

I haven't done much measuring. They look bigger to me though. Those are from a McCulloch.

Are they current production?

Tim

[David_L6]

Are they current production?

Tim

Oh goodness no. They are from an old 3 cylinder (75 hp I think) McCulloch outboard. I don't know how difficult it would be to find more of them but for one of your one off projects it may be worth doing a little digging.

[Tim Kurcz]

Oh goodness no. They are from an old 3 cylinder (75 hp I think) McCulloch outboard. I don't know how difficult it would be to find more of them but for one of your one off projects it may be worth doing a little digging.

Sorry to hear about that.... Pretty as the McCulloch cages are, it's not worth the chase knowing they are NLA and that custom reeds must be made. Boyesen offers several 8-port cages with two- and now three-stage reeds available.

For the 666 & 444, the OMC 6-port cage is compact, plentiful, cheap, offers 50% greater opening area compared to the Merc reed cage, and fiber reeds are available multiple sources.

All that said, thank you for offering an interesting alternative.

Tim

[Powerabout]

that reed bolt pattern looks very familiar?

[Tim Kurcz]

that reed bolt pattern looks very familiar?

Might be you're talking about the 8-port OMC, except the cage would be wider......... Or is there another?

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here are images from the Bridgeport showing rough port work - hand work to follow. Exhaust ports are not raised to maintain compression and mid-range punch. A 5/16" mill is used and bridges are not narrowed to maintain heat transfer and strength. Final cut is with a 3/4" ball end mill to improve gas escapement from the center exhaust port. Intake ports are opened with a 1/4" mill which allows slightly greater area increase as this side runs cool. Again, bridges are not narrowed to maintain strength. This is one of the easier, more pleasurable operations on the build. The 444/666 projects are not for beginners unless taken slowly. Through the many hours and mods I must remind myself the results are worth the effort!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here you see the results of several hours work...... A beautiful new casting from another source proved improperly patterned at 1:1 - aluminum pattems must be built with a "shrink scale" allowing 1/8" shrink per 12". The filler block for the MK75-78-700 is 18" tall, so was 3/16" short overall. This error required sectioning, welding, and much addional fitting - bummer! It is salvageble however and will be mated to the divider plate and elbows this weekend.

Tim

[R Austin]

Here you see the results of several hours work...... A beautiful new casting from another source proved improperly patterned at 1:1 - aluminum pattems must be built with a "shrink scale" allowing 1/8" shrink per 12". The filler block for the MK75-78-700 is 18" tall, so was 3/16" short overall. This error required sectioning, welding, and much addional fitting - bummer! It is salvageble however and will be mated to the divider plate and elbows this weekend.

Tim

Tim
You should have told me you needed a filler block. I have 3 left that I patterned up and made to complete one of my deflecters.A small trim job on each end and bottom slides thru exhaust drop outlet and swings down in. Fits like a glove. Shrinkage rate is 1/64 inch per inch.5040750408

[Tim Kurcz]

[QUOTE=R Austin;124991]Tim
You should have told me you needed a filler block. I have 3 left that I patterned up and made to complete one of my deflecters.A small trim job on each end and bottom slides thru exhaust drop outlet and swings down in. Fits like a glove. Shrinkage rate is 1/64 inch per inch.

Hey Dick,

At the time, I didn't know there was a problem with the casting in hand. Sure wish I knew before, your casting would have saved hours and $25 Heliarc..... Thanks for the casting knowledge: 1/64" shrink/inch (.0156") makes more sense as the 18" filler block X .0156" = .281" shrink. Will make due with this for now, but would like one for a backup. Please bring to Suter's.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here are images of filler block, divider plate, and elbow machining and fitting. There are numerous steps required because of the sandwich construction, and piles of chips: The pictures don't do the work justice. All told, there are over 12 hours work so far, and the rear water bypass has yet to be built. The good news is IF all goes well tomorrow, the powerhead will be ready for assembly Monday or Tuesday. Gotta take time for the turbo tomorrow afternoon. Enjoy!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

With the water manifold done, we're cooking with gas - or maybe alcohol? Gotta go......... the turbo is calling.

Tim

[Powerabout]

Just post the sound clips when its running

[Tim Kurcz]

Just post the sound clips when its running

You can count on it - next summer - or possibly this fall on the trailer. It's unlikely to be driven this year; running out of WX and turbo needs one more day on the water!

[Aeroliner]

The powerhead is comming along great. Have you started the tower for the unit or will you use the three cylinder unit?
Alan
PS: Time to start thinking of a 999!

[Tim Kurcz]

The powerhead is comming along great. Have you started the tower for the unit or will you use the three cylinder unit?
Alan
PS: Time to start thinking of a 999!

The 666 will be fitted to one of my steel towers with a 45SS gearcase. Two reasons: 1) It's already built. 2) I can't bring myself to carve up that beautiful Speedmaster. It belongs on a vintage Merc in complete form.

I like the idea of Dick Austins 99 inch "Beast", and can't wait to see/hear it run. Not sure if 9 carbs would help, am pretty sure six would be plenty.

Look for major progress this weekend. Time is getting tight!

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

We'll all be looking!

This is an exciting build with great photos!

Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

OK everybody,

The 666 powerhead was mated to the tower for the first time today. The spacer shown is a simple casting pattern to be poured and machined late this week, following a driveshaft will be cut & squared. Meanwhile the distributor bracket and inter-carb linkage will be completed - tomorrow if all goes well. The flywheel and roping plate needs to be turned as well. Next weekend should see final assembly, barely in time for Mark Suter's.........

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

In a word, WOW!

Jeff

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Engine looks great. Can't wait for the 6 cylinder fest next year. It sure will be a great event. If we can get 8 engines on the water it will be a great show!

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

You just can't imagine how much time it takes to engineer and build throttle linkage and a fuel system for six carbs. Factory OMC looper choke linkage pieces were scavenged from a "box-o-carbs", hammered into new shapes, and now serve as inter-carb linkage. As noted before, a trick to mounting carbs close together was to reverse the port side butterfly shafts. Careful planning and delicate rework was involved. Be aware you MUST grind the protruding, swaged portion of the screw from the back side of each butterfly screw or they simply break off upon removal! One butterfly shaft was ruined in the process. The throttle pulls were made from bicycle brake cable & housings. The cables will be terminated together at the dead-man cable attach point low on the port side of the engine.

Fueling six carbs with three pumps looked at first to be a plumbers nightmare. After several scenarios were sketched, it was decided to use one main fuel inlet to feed the three pumps (and the primer yet to be mounted; the pumps in turn feeding six carbs. But how to make sure all are fed evenly? Elementary: A vertical fuel rail was gun drilled, machined, and attached as shown. Pumps feed the common rail from the top, middle, and bottom. Carbs are then fed by individual equal length hoses spaced in between. Fittings are due in tomorrow, with hoses to follow. It's sure to look interesting, especially once the primer and its hoses are fitted!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

BTW: It's been a wild race to build the 666 in time for Mark Suter's October 20 show. We will make it - but just barely! Many thanks to all of you watching, offering your engineering insight, and words of encouragement. You'll all see images of the finished rig late next week, or after the show if I'm late on the clock.

As winter is closing in quickly, you'll have to wait until next spring to see/hear the video. Also, the IOA has agreed to host at least one special event for Merc sixes (stock, mod, and alky) at Hillsdale next year - they race there late spring and late summer. You'll want to attend this event. Stay tuned!

Tim

[BJuby]

I was looking forward to seeing how you were going to accomplish the throttle linkage. Very clever and professional looking.

[Tim Kurcz]

I was looking forward to seeing how you were going to accomplish the throttle linkage. Very clever and professional looking.

Thanks, but it's not done quite yet. All my race engines use push-to throttle actuation for safety. That way closure is not totally dependent in springs: You can forcefully pull the throttle handle back to close the throttle should the Bowden wire bend. The 666 is obviously a pull-to, so a reversing arm must be designed and built. Hopefully in the next few days.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here are images of the simple pattern ready for the casting foundry - it was sent today. The trick is to make it big enough to compensate for 1/64" shrink per inch including a 2-3 degree draft angle cut into vertical surfaces that allows removal from the green sand mold.

If all goes according to plan, the raw casting will arrive Fri-Sat for machining this weekend. Time is running out: The flywheel, roping plate, and distributor bracket need to be machined and fitted. Oh yeah, it might be nice to assemble the powerhead!

Tim

[curbman]

Looking good Tim

[chris3298]

I'm in just total AWWWWWWWW amazing what man can build.

[hydroplay]

eLove the neat work and thought involved. My question is why is the adapter plate so thick? I don't know if I'm missing a good reason since in my mind lowering the heavy powerhead an inch or two would be a good thing. Or is that height necessary for clearance on the bottom carb to the swivel pin? Can't tell from pics.

Sam

[Tim Kurcz]

Thanks for your kind thoughts, Sam. I've worked diligently to design and build elegant, functional mods - something that might have been designed in the empire room.

Otherwise, you guessed right. The adapter pattern is thick clear the bottom carb over the clamps & swivel because: 1) The tower is a drop-down design for the OMC loop triple with it's angle-up carb position. 2) The Mercury bottom cylinder to powerhead flange dimension is shorter than the OMC and the very low 666 bottom carb means you need to raise the powerhead even on a conventional Merc tower. 3) The pattern was made 3/8" taller than needed assure more than sufficient material for machining.

If the 66 Merc was legal in Mod, I'd build a custom tower. My hydro uses a transom sized for the 45SS For the once/twice each year it runs, height is no issue.

Is there any chance you'll make Suter's? You would absoultely love it!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

With all components in hand, another 2+ hours were consumed in careful layout of the hose runs and primer. It's hard to believe, but you're looking at over 10' of hose: 5/16" for primary feed, 3/16" for carb feeds, and 3/32" for the primer injector system. This was needed to work around the vertical throttle linkage and assure kink-free fuel delivery.

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

What an elegant solution for feeding 6 carbs with 3 pumps!

Jeff

[Mad Cat]

Tim;
What about setting it up to run Fuel and put it on an 1100cc Runabout ?????

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim;
What about setting it up to run Fuel and put it on an 1100cc Runabout ?????

You betcha! A new runabout build has been comissioned this winter. Next spring I'll test the engine on gas, then try alcohol. A dear friend (and only 138 pounds) has offered to ride.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Here is the completed reversing throttle system. Packaging was tricky, but the finished piece works nice.

Also, the spacer casting arrived yesterday. It will be machined and installed this weekend. Only six days to go, gotta slave this weekend!

Tim

[Mad Cat]

Tim;


Can't wait to see/hear that thing run on a runabout ! Hope your "DeckRider" knows what he is getting into ! :-)

John Biagio (Mad Cat)

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim;


Can't wait to see/hear that thing run on a runabout ! Hope your "DeckRider" knows what he is getting into ! :-)

John Biagio (Mad Cat)


It's sure to be sweet. That deck rider is Rich Welch. He has numerous Mod titles and the agility or a cat.........

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

With the intricate throttle linkage out of the way, shop activity turned toward the spacer and steering bar. More complicated than it looks, the spacer was completed, and mockup assembled. Next the flywheel and roping plates will be turned and the shop cleaned for powerhead assembly.

Tim506775067850679506805067650675

[Gene East]

You betcha! A new runabout build has been comissioned this winter. Next spring I'll test the engine on gas, then try alcohol. A dear friend (and only 138 pounds) has offered to ride.

Tim

How things have changed over the years with the abolishing of weight rules!

I once jokingly said to Tim Chance, " You 140# drivers need to be nice to your 200# pitcrew members" (That includes deck riders).

Tim scoffed and said, "140#! Who are you calling fat"!

Good luck with your project. Thanks for sharing with us!

[Tim Kurcz]

How things have changed over the years with the abolishing of weight rules!

I once jokingly said to Tim Chance, " You 140# drivers need to be nice to your 200# pitcrew members" (That includes deck riders).

Tim scoffed and said, "140#! Who are you calling fat"!

Good luck with your project. Thanks for sharing with us!


Pretty sneaky Gene!

Never met Tim Chance, but can guess he is/was under 140 like Rich. Weight makes all kinds of difference as you pointed out. Rich was nicknamed the "trained monkey" by an IOA competitor. Gotta make alot of power to make up for 50#'s!

Tim

PS Really gotta appreciate the 200# team members for their lifting & roping efforts!

[David_L6]

You betcha! A new runabout build has been comissioned this winter. Next spring I'll test the engine on gas, then try alcohol. A dear friend (and only 138 pounds) has offered to ride.

Tim

Who is building the runabout?

[Gene East]

Pretty sneaky Gene!

Never met Tim Chance, but can guess he is/was under 140 like Rich. Weight makes all kinds of difference as you pointed out. Rich was nicknamed the "trained monkey" by an IOA competitor. Gotta make alot of power to make up for 50#'s!

Tim

PS Really gotta appreciate the 200# team members for their lifting & roping efforts!

Tim Chance weighs less than 130#.

He recently told me he wears the same size belt he wore when we first met 40+ years ago.

Don't you just hate "Smart-asses"?

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim Chance weighs less than 130#.

He recently told me he wears the same size belt he wore when we first met 40+ years ago.

Don't you just hate "Smart-asses"?


Wow - he must be the lightest adult driver ever! Agreed, he's a smart %$ss. Good boat racer material!

[Gene East]

Forgot to mention, Tim stays in shape by running marathons in less than 5 hours.

He still holds his own on the race course as well.

Not too shabby for a man who is 71 years old!!

[F-12]

You neede to be careful, Gene..........Tim doesn't know he's 71.........

[Tim Kurcz]

Tonight is the first time this Merc 700 has been on a boat in at least 25 years...... Two more nights work and it will be ready for show. The distributor bracket, driveshaft fitting, and final rigging has yet to be done. Might even have time to wash the boat in time for the show!

Tim

PS Just goes to show some things get better with age!

[Tim Kurcz]

Three days to go, the distributor bracket was completed tonight. Driveshaft and accessory fitting tonight. Stay tuned.

Tim

[Gene East]

Great job Tim!

[Aeroliner]

Hi Tim,
Great progress on the 666. If the pond is still free of ice you can go for a ride. Can't wait to see a video of the engine underway. Should be quite a ride.

Alan

[byrdsperformance@tds.net]

Tim'
Have you weighed the 666 an the turbo 56 ???

[BJuby]

Love the custom bracketing for the ignition tower.

Quick question. The pulley gear on the top of the ignition tower. Did you make that, or are they sold somewhere. I could use a couple.

Thanks.

[Tim Kurcz]

Love the custom bracketing for the ignition tower.

Quick question. The pulley gear on the top of the ignition tower. Did you make that, or are they sold somewhere. I could use a couple.

Thanks.


Thanks for your thoughts on the bracketing - still needs a little work but good enough for the show. Interestingly, the horizontal support actually came from Bud Parker's stash!

Otherwise, the distibutor pulley is factory stuff. Any older Merc dealer should have them laying around. BTW: This distributor is from a 1975 Merc 1500.

Tim

PS The turbo is 166#. Though not weighed yet, it is expected the 666 will be in the 172-176# range.

[Tim Kurcz]

Mercury MK 78A - 1959
Six cylinders in-line, deflector
66 cubic inches
70 HP @ 5500 RPM
Carbs = 3-Tillotson 1" venturi
Reed cages = 3-Crankshaft mounted
Reeds = Four single leaf stainless steel per cylinder
Mixture flowpath = double 90 under crank counterweight
Porting = Three round intake and exhaust ports
Exhaust = Internal through tower housing
Ignition = Dual point battery, belt driven distributor
Mid section = Cast aluminum 15"
Gearcase = Mercury non-shifting "dockbuster"
Operating speed range = 35-45 MPH
Weight = 188 Lbs

Kurcz-Mercury 666 - 2012
Six cylinders in-line, deflector
66 cubic inches
110 HP @ 7500 RPM (Est.)
Carbs = 6-OMC 1" venturi
Reed cages = 6-Crankcase mounted pyramid
Reeds = Six dual stage composite
Mixture flowpath = Straight-in between crank counterweights
Porting = Three center squared intake and exhaust ports
Exhaust = External tuned converging stacks
Ignition = Breakerless battery CD "Thunderbolt", belt driven distributor
Mid section = Welded steel racing - 10"
Gearcase = OMC 45SS non-shifting racing
Operating speed range =90-100 MPH
Weight = 172 Lbs-176Lbs (Est)

[proprider01us]

Thanks for the comparison info. Certainly puts things a bit more in perspective. Do you plan to have it "barking" at Mark'
s show?

[Tim Kurcz]

Thanks to all for your interest and encouragement.

The 666 is in the 95% mockup stage, so will not be fired at Suter's (also because it will be displayed inside). It will be torn down after the show to complete reed cage stuffers, weight reduction, final fitting and assembly. After this mad rush I'm going to take a couple weeks off, but you'll see a continued stream of images when work commences. First fire will be next summer.

For those who can't make the show, these images should hold you for a while. Local racers and collectors will see it Saturday. Gotta admit it's quite a piece! I look forward to seeing many of you there!

Tim

[BJuby]

How long is the hydro? 11'? Thing looks awesome.

[Tim Kurcz]

How long is the hydro? 11'? Thing looks awesome.

You can thank Dale Ropp for the lines. Built in 2000, it's 13'-0" with a 38-1/2" bottom and 92" afterplanes. It runs eveything from a 45SS to the turbo and next year will run the 666. Comfortable and predictable, it's very stable to 95+.

Tim

[chris3298]

You can thank Dale Ropp for the lines. Built in 2000, it's 13'-0" with a 38-1/2" bottom and 92" afterplanes. It runs eveything from a 45SS to the turbo and next year will run the 666. Comfortable and predictable, it's very stable to 95+.

Tim

You definitely the man, that thing is beautiful.

[BJuby]

You can thank Dale Ropp for the lines. Built in 2000, it's 13'-0" with a 38-1/2" bottom and 92" afterplanes. It runs eveything from a 45SS to the turbo and next year will run the 666. Comfortable and predictable, it's very stable to 95+.

Tim

Oh nice, was going to guess larger, but the engine size made the boat look smaller. So you'll ship that to my place so I can try it on my 12'6" Sid? HAHA ;)

On a more serious note. 2 blade or 3 blade on this beast and what diameter/pitch are you starting at?

[Tim Kurcz]

Oh nice, was going to guess larger, but the engine size made the boat look smaller. So you'll ship that to my place so I can try it on my 12'6" Sid? HAHA ;)

On a more serious note. 2 blade or 3 blade on this beast and what diameter/pitch are you starting at?

The 666 on your Sid is no big stretch: Check out this 13' Andrews with a 2.5 Merc! It has yet to be lake tested, but may be the worlds most powerful kneeler ever built.... The unmistakeable work of Dixon Smith. How'd you like to pull the trigger on that???

Anyway, the 666 is expected to make similar power/RPM to my OMC 850/FE engines. The first prop to be tested will be a DeWald 4-blade cleaver 8" Dia. X 13" Pitch. Adjustments will be made from there.

Tim

BTW: Last night at 8PM the driveshaft was fitted and the boat cleaned just in time for Suter's.

[BJuby]

That rig is ridiculous, haha, and yes, that would be a wild wild ride. But I am happy with my 66ci racer for now. The baddest I will go on the Sid is one day having a D or F Looper on it.

[Tim Kurcz]

That rig is ridiculous, haha, and yes, that would be a wild wild ride. But I am happy with my 66ci racer for now. The baddest I will go on the Sid is one day having a D or F Looper on it.

Joys rides on calm lakes are a long way from competition. Regardless of available power and conditions, smart drivers know the throttle works two ways. Remember to always leave yourself an out!

Let me know if you'd like one of these; I'm willing to build two more.

Tim

[Aeroliner]

Great work Tim. If I got one I would want twin turbos and nox to make it into a good mod engine. It is an outstanding build.

Alan

[Tim Kurcz]

Great work Tim. If I got one I would want twin turbos and nox to make it into a good mod engine. It is an outstanding build.

Alan

OK Alan,

Just name the powerhead; I've got two spare turbos and know the local NOS distributor personally. Durability will suffer, but you can't use that much power very long. I'd sure like to test it - on a big boat!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

The 666 on your Sid is no big stretch: Check out this 13' Andrews with a 2.5 Merc! It has yet to be lake tested, but may be the worlds most powerful kneeler ever built.... The unmistakeable work of Dixon Smith. How'd you like to pull the trigger on that???

Anyway, the 666 is expected to make similar power/RPM to my OMC 850/FE engines. The first prop to be tested will be a DeWald 4-blade cleaver 8" Dia. X 13" Pitch. Adjustments will be made from there.

Tim

BTW: Last night at 8PM the driveshaft was fitted and the boat cleaned just in time for Suter's.


Hey all,

Last evening I learned from Dixon the Andrews is actually 14'-6". Sorry about the error.

Tim

[proprider01us]

Hey Tim, would love to see more pictures of Dixon's rig...better yet, where can I see it run!

[Tim Kurcz]

Hey Tim, would love to see more pictures of Dixon's rig...better yet, where can I see it run!


The Suter show was excellent as usual, and the 666 got plenty of attention. There were many racers in attendance. Pleasant surprise: Upon return, the 666 was de-rigged, then weighed in at 166.5 Lbs. Weight reduction should bring the total to 165 including the switch box and spark coil - better than expected.

Dixon Smith visited for the first time and was stunned with the collection and pristine show motors. He plans to run the Andrews-Merc tomorrow. Images and video are sure to follow. He is asking for help from the audience: Does anybody know anything about George Andrews and the boats he built?

Many thanks for all of you watching: This thread captured the imaginations of many, with over 14,000 views in 70 days. An average of 200 per day - Wow! Though a short break will be taken, more will be posted when the powerhead is finished. Stay tuned1

Tim

[Fastjeff57]

Tim:

Congrats on both building such a jewel of a motor, and for the excellence of your photography that allowed so many people to enjoy its progress.

Now, if only we could hear it run!

Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim:

Congrats on both building such a jewel of a motor, and for the excellence of your photography that allowed so many people to enjoy its progress.

Now, if only we could hear it run!

Jeff

Thank you for your kind thoughts. The project was especially good because the long held dream finally became reality. Rest assured video will be posted soon after it runs.

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvYuITzGnw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scIaydrpI5g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJslR53LgA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0vzY4WlOKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGFumvGujo

For all of you following Dixon's exploits, he sent the above youtube links. In these vids the engine is stuck in full rich mode, a problem now fixed (the last vid is from last year with the engine running correctly). He says it's heavy astern, but isn't as tippy as envisioned. Dixon plans to run it one more time before the snow flies. Look for more video within a week or so.

Tim

[Bruster]

Dixon has never been shy on his projects, They have been over the top since I first met him in the early 70's.
Some of you are familiar with his Merc Turbo 44, not real pretty but it more than makes up it's lack of looks with performance.

[johnsonracer]

Hey Tim,
How did that EMM go mounted in the boat?
Any issues with the vacuum hose being that long? Might be a simple (and dry) place to put the computer for my 60...

[Dixon263]

Dixon has never been shy on his projects, They have been over the top since I first met him in the early 70's.
Some of you are familiar with his Merc Turbo 44, not real pretty but it more than makes up it's lack of looks with performance.

Not pretty? Maybe I'm like a dad that thinks his kids ARE pretty, but no one else does. In my eyes, it just doesn't get much prettier than this! BTW, I think that racers that run without cowls will also agree with me on this one.

50929

[proprider01us]

Could you post pictures of the Merc. turbo 44. I've heard folks talk about this motor but have never seen this beauty. Thanks for the V6 postings, you clearly have stout stones!

[Tim Kurcz]

Could you post pictures of the Merc. turbo 44. I've heard folks talk about this motor but have never seen this beauty. Thanks for the V6 postings, you clearly have stout stones!

For Joe and the rest of you Dixon fans: He had trouble uploading images, so here they are. Dixon says the engine went through many changes: Blow through, draw through, one carb, two carbs, fuel injection, manual start, electric start, etc. It ran great (I drag raced one of my early triples against it in 1994 - you'll have to get him to tell the story of two smoked pistons), but said that reed life was very short.

Tim

[Schiada]

Thanks!:cool:
Would love to here and see MORE!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!:cool:

[Smokin' Joe]

I'd like to see the reed cages. Wish I could be there, we have the annual Rothermel AOMC
swap meet in Houston 110-13 Nov.

[Mark75H]

If I recall he said this was capable of 90 mph+

[Dixon263]

The turbo 44 was used mostly on hydros that were 'iffy' at speeds over 90, but many times I was still pulling quite hard at 90. The automatic boost controller on the turbo didn't seem to work for me so I simply disconnected it and locked it at a set boost. The problem was, if it was set a 12 pounds of boost, it would quickly hit 12, then start to climb at high speed. So here is the situation, at full throttle the engine would go into detonation at about 15-16 pounds of boost. As I would be quickly approaching 100, I had to watch the boost needle and ease back on the throttle at 15 pounds of boost at the same time watch a speedometer (pre-gps) and also watch for sponson walk or too much lift, all at the same time. For comparison, I bought Bruce Summer's "F" looper and hydro and the accceleration with it was peaking at about 85 mph on it's way to 103-105. The turbo was very close in accel at 85 to the looper, but was much broader in power curve. Where the looper was only good from 65-70 on up, the turbo 44 on gas was great all the way from 30 or so, on up.

[Fastjeff57]

I always thought angled in--in the direction of rotation--was the best. Maybe not.


Jeff

[Tim Kurcz]

The Indiana Outboard Association is hosting a “Carl Kiekhaefer 6-cylinder Mercury Memorial Exhibition” at Hillsdale, MI September 7&8.

The event is open to Alky and Mod hydros and runabouts with Mercury sixes only: Stackers preferred.

Clock start exhibitions will be two heats of three laps each day for runabouts and hydros run separately. Testing is available for a small fee Friday afternoon September 6.

Look for the APBA circular next week, and respond to this thread with roll call for what is certain to be a sweeeeeeet sounding event.

Tim

PS Assuming it behaves itself, the long awaited 666 Merc will make it’s debut!

[A/B Speedliner]

Tim,
The boat and engine look terrific. Good luck in September.

David Van Weele

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim,
The boat and engine look terrific. Good luck in September.

David Van Weele

Thanks David,

Please join us, and bring one to run. F-class sixes are invited to sing at Hillsdale this September 6-7-8 at the IOA “Carl Kiekhaefer 6-cylinder Mercury Memorial Exhibition”. Testing is Friday afternoon, with exhibition heats Saturday and Sunday for both runabouts and hydros. Any six cylinder F-class Mercury based Stock, Mod or Alky is welcome to run, with Dick Austin's Looper Beast excepted: Stackers preferred. This includes deflectors & loopers with three, six, nine carbs running any fuel. Please contact race director Kevin Besonen or me for details. Single event APBA membership and full kevlar are required. Not to worry, there are plenty of drivers willing to loan safety gear to see/hear a field of sixes full song!

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

Thanks David,

Please join us, and bring one to run. F-class sixes are invited to sing at Hillsdale this September 6-7-8 at the IOA “Carl Kiekhaefer 6-cylinder Mercury Memorial Exhibition”. Testing is Friday afternoon, with exhibition heats Saturday and Sunday for both runabouts and hydros. Any six cylinder F-class Mercury based Stock, Mod or Alky is welcome to run, with Dick Austin's Looper Beast excepted: Stackers preferred. This includes deflectors & loopers with three, six, nine carbs running any fuel. Please contact race director Kevin Besonen or me for details. Single event APBA membership and full kevlar are required. Not to worry, there are plenty of drivers willing to loan safety gear to see/hear a field of sixes full song!

Tim

http://www.apba.org/races/hillsdale-american-legion-championships-6460

To all F class Merc six cylinder owners / fanciers; The APBA just posted the race circular (follow link above). Time to get out your alky or mod Merc 60 CI or 66 CI stacker and make some noise!

Please reply with roll call. Race director Kevin Besonen would like to see/hear a full field Thanks,

Tim

[Tim Kurcz]

http://www.apba.org/races/hillsdale-american-legion-championships-6460

To all F class Merc six cylinder owners / fanciers; The APBA just posted the race circular (follow link above). Time to get out your alky or mod Merc 60 CI or 66 CI stacker and make some noise!

Please reply with roll call. Race director Kevin Besonen would like to see/hear a full field Thanks,

Tim

Much as we’d all like to see and hear the sixes run, planned attendees are unable to participate due to a myriad of technical and personal challenges.

Anybody that brings a six will get a chance to run, and you can expect another Merc six exhibition attempt next year.

Many thanks to race director Kevin Besonen and our friends at the IOA for supporting this event.

Tim

[ponyboy]

So there will NOT be an exhibition of stackers this year? or just not many?

[BJuby]

Tim did you ever get to run it last season?

[Tim Kurcz]

Tim did you ever get to run it last season?

The 666 did not run last year: It's disassembled awaiting center mains and blueprinting, and will run this summer. With any good luck, the Merc-six special event will happen as well.

Tim