Primer bulbs are over rated

[riVeRraT]

Well its a long story, but I own a 1980 175 Merc, that for 10 years didn't really run right. It would run out of fuel at lower rpm's

Here's what I did in order to try and fix it over the last ten years.
Change primer bulb
Rebuilt fuel pump
Tried external fuel tank
Cut open my inboard fuel tank to see if I had an anti-syphon device, none
Fule pick-up fine
change fuel line
rebuilt fuel pump again
change primer bulb again
put clear fuel lines between primer bulb and fuel pump, and fuel pump and carbs
no bubbles between primer bulb and fuel pump
small bubbles would develolpe inside fuel pump, and start coming out of top carb line, then a rush of air starting from the upper, and middle carb would happen, going in the direction, carb to fuel pump. This takes 30 seconds to happen.
I go locate a used fuel pump, since at this point I think the fuel pump is porous, I rebuild it, put it on, and the same exact thing happens.

I throw my hands in the air and start cursing, not at anyone or thing, and I am ready to give up. It's been ten years, and I still don't have the !@#$#@ motor running right, it won't idle, and I need to go trolling to catch a record muskie already.

I am staring at the primer bulb....again....and a voice pops into my head, and says take the primer bulb off completely, so I argue with the voice and say, that makes no sense, then the voice says try it, you might learn something (lol) so I take it out.

Bingo, the motor starts right up every time, idles like a champion, and I picked up 200 rpms on the top end, which means I was probably running lean. Even if the fuel pump is dry, and carbs are dry, and fuel lines are empty, it only takes 4 seconds of cranking to fill the lines and have the motor start. I have run 90 gallons of fuel through it since then, and it runs perfect.

I still haven't caught the muskie yet though.

[jeff55vDSH]

This "no primer bulb" setup reminds me of the pressurized systems the PRO catagory uses. One of the pit crew would open a valve and blow into a hose to force fuel into the carbs. Then close the valve while holding pressure in the hose, thus leaving a little pressure in the system. Once the engine was running, it could take care of the tank pressurization on it's own.

I am very suprised it only takes 4 seconds of cranking to get fuel all the way to your carbs! I guess I learned something too.
:)

[kws]

we borrowed a tank a beloit thanks Fred :) ( i left mine hanging on the wall at the shop @#@@#$%%#@) it had no bulb i just blew on the filler hole untill fuel got to the fitting on the motor . this seeemed to work fine
good luck on the muskie ;)

[riVeRraT]

I understnad what you guys are saying, but just to clear things up, my tank is not a pressurized tank. So the fuel pump can bring the fuel up to the engine very easily on its own, especially when it doesn't have to overcome the 2 anti-siphon valves/check valves in your primer bulb.

Right after that, my nieghbor tells me he only squeezes his primer bulb once a year, after that he just goes down and starts it.

The primer bulb to me is a restriction. At one point I was going to put 2 tees and a shut-off in the line to isolate the primer bulb for priming, then open the shut-off, and the fuel can go right in without having to go through the primer bulb, but I see no need for it since it is working like a charm.

This might not work as well for motors that do not have choke plates, and use a fuel richening device, but then you could use the 2 tee, shut-off method. With the choke plate engaged, and fuel pump pumping, the fuel will fill the carbs in seconds, even if it is dry. Most of the time the fuel left in the carbs is enough to start the engine. I do have a brand new primer bulb on-board in a box, just in case I am wrong about this.

[jeff55vDSH]

it had no bulb i just blew on the filler hole untill fuel got to the fitting on the motor . this seeemed to work fine

I'm sure Kevin is not running a pressurized tank either. He just wanted to save some engine cranking, Manual start ya know.

Hey Kevin, Did you go to the Annual Saybrook invitational Boat races? How about an update?
I was invited, but couldn't go. :(

[kws]

the turn out was really down from the year you went. there were only 2 open boats (Gene and I ) . The ConnocoPhillips Crew didnt attend with the exeption of Greg, he was there as a spectator. I asked that they announce any expereienced boater could run my boat ,only 2 takers one was my sister the other another brother of mine. order of finnishing was :
OPEN CLASS
Gene Schertz 1 min 48 sec
Kevin Schertz 1 min 49 sec
Steve Schertz 1 min 52 sec
Tara Kirkpatrick 2 min plus
fishing boat class ran, there were 5 entrys i believe.
the 2 person class had 5 or 6 entrys. but that really neat 2 person boat was a noshow ( the owners have been frustated in open class as they dont have a race foot .I told them they could use one of ours.they decided to just watch and drink this year) although they completely domminated the 2 person class for like 4 years
Darrel Tipsord and a couple of friends cooked food for EVERYONE !

Marty really strerched the course out on that little pit. effectivly made it a 4 corner course. plus all laps went thru the starting shoot instead of first and last laps. No one flipped on the right hand corner ;)
Marty let Gene and i go out together for a run to let people watch 2 boats run side by side the spectators really liked that
We missed you and your wife hope you can attend next year

[jeff55vDSH]

Gene Schertz 1 min 48 sec

Thanks for the update Kevin. Maybe this winter or next spring we can get a new thread started on this subject. It's sure a great way to have some fun racing!
I remember my KG-4 ran 1min 44sec down there. But that was on the old course configuration. I'd love to come down and do it again! I think I can get thru that right hand turn a little quicker next time.

[riVeRraT]

Is that a vintage hydroplane?

[jeff55vDSH]

Is it a vintage hydro? Kinda. It was built by my friend Jim Folkerson. Jim made it for his daughter who raced it very successfully. The boat is light and handles very well. It still has "Merry Christmas '85" painted on the dash.
:)

[riVeRraT]

It's cool looking, and my KE7 would look great on it. Where could I get plans for one?

[kws]

Jeff i have been thinking about trying the stock foot with one of Ron's cool local class props. (Any extra's yet Ron?) and try to revive participation in the open class . ( dont take this wrong !!! you and you motor/boat combo are allways welcome :) :) ) with a little glue on nose cone that wont hurt a thing fishing .if i can get one of those props and drag a few of those guys to the water with thier boats and motors . throw one of rons 15 hp props on they will see they can be competitive down there.then i believe many will come back, cause they wont have to buy a race motor for one weekend a year . just a prop ;) heck we can just swap the prop around thru the pitts if we have too what do you think?

[Steve Johnson]

Anyone seen or talked to Big Jim ? I havent seen him for a couple of years. What a neat Guy.
Steve

[Ron Hill]

Had a little "Set Back" on my 15 HP props.....don't have the broach for a 15 HP...So, will need to bore a round hole and press in the splines from a rubber hub....with the rubber machined off!! Actaully, I hadn't finished the mold as I've been spending money like I had it...But the mold is almost done...and when I went to look for the broach.........................well, the broach huse doesn't have one....and the owner even looked and he know every broach in the house...He did find the old Speedmaster broach....which is good news as my 15 HP will double as a One Liter Stock/Modified Hydro prop...and they use the old Speedmaster spline!!!

I'll send a test prop to you when I get these done...

ADD: Actually, I was going to say, we never trusted the primer bulbs, when I raced...We would prime our motors with a primer, then hook up the gas line...The only time we primed them wa in the morning before we raced...

But, primer bulbs have cost many a man a race...They are JUNK in my mind....(Even though Chad has one on his 45...right now)...

[kws]

Ron. what is that old saying about its only a problem if there is not a solution.
but some solutions cost more than others. or is that 2 sayings mixed up lol i dont remember . its cool it will double duty in another class. :) :) i look forward to recieving one thanks


on a side note:
all of the canopys / people in Jeffs picture are the SPECTATORS .
the pits were from behind Jeff and to the right. no admision was charged but the donation bucket hanging by the road on the way in, was a lot fuller than Marty had ever dreamed it would be ;)

me thinks I will quit using a bulb, dang thing was in the way of my foot anyway.

[mercguy]

Had a little "Set Back" on my 15 HP props.....don't have the broach for a 15 HP...So, will need to bore a round hole and press in the splines from a rubber hub....with the rubber machined off!! Actaully, I hadn't finished the mold as I've been spending money like I had it...But the mold is almost done...and when I went to look for the broach.........................well, the broach huse doesn't have one....and the owner even looked and he know every broach in the house...He did find the old Speedmaster broach....which is good news as my 15 HP will double as a One Liter Stock/Modified Hydro prop...and they use the old Speedmaster spline!!!

I'll send a test prop to you when I get these done...

ADD: Actually, I was going to say, we never trusted the primer bulbs, when I raced...We would prime our motors with a primer, then hook up the gas line...The only time we primed them wa in the morning before we raced...

But, primer bulbs have cost many a man a race...They are JUNK in my mind....(Even though Chad has one on his 45...right now)...

I have NO PROBLEM with primer bulbs and have only "seen" about half a dozen fail (usually those made by Tempo, who make after market parts!), out of over 1000's of boats I have worked on. The problem usually arises from owner error and the location of where it was installed. A primer bulb is made to "push" fuel, so should be kept as close to the fuel tank as possible. It is also usually only used to first "prime" the fuel system before the engine is first started for the day, after that the choke/enrichner system should be used. For very short distances (like in an ASR/ASH) you could leave it out and use the "squirt can", but for a long distance between the fuel tank and engine, I would keep the primer bulb in the system, IF you do not use some kind of electric fuel pump (marine use only) used for priming.

Ron, if and when I get a 45, I will have a primer bulb inline........

[Joe Silvestri 36-S]

Daren,

Did you take a ride in a 45? I always wanted to take a ride in one to see if I liked it. Now, that I have the laydown, I feel much safer and have a new craving for driving hydros, laydowns. :D

[Ron Hill]

You maybe right on this point, Daren. My primer bulb experience goes back to 1958. In those days we had to run the Merc fuel line connector, and with the bulb hanging down, they'd cause the connector to disconnect...Not really the primer bulb's fault. We also would step on them or get our butt against them about the time you were passing someone....

We just never ran them on the Johnson 15A because I DIDN'T WANT ONE...we may not have any trouble with the 45..

[mercguy]

Daren,

Did you take a ride in a 45? I always wanted to take a ride in one to see if I liked it. Now, that I have the laydown, I feel much safer and have a new craving for driving hydros, laydowns. :D

no, not yet Joe, buy "thinking" about it.... ;)