2013 Winter Nationals: March 2-3, Bakersfield, California

[Ron Hill]

Anyone know when the WINTER NATIONALS ARE THIS YEAR? In boat racing, the ORIGINAL Winternationals was timed to go with Easter (Spring) Vacation. I was a teacher when Jimmy Dawe and I started The Winternationals and I wanted this race to be the week before Easter, so I could "Party" the week after the race.

I just was wondering when the NPA was have their Winter Nationals.

[AZOutlaw]

Bakersfield March 2-3

[capnzee]

The COR boats are planning to make Bakersfield their Winternationals, I sure hope they will be on the schedule. You can count on a minimum of 8 boats. Who would be the person to talk to, I would like to ensure that we are in fact on the schedule. Ron Hill has stated that he will provide 5 trophies for the COR class. Rod

[Ron Hill]

I'm still buying trophies for the COR Winternationals, but only for the top three. (Sponsor's request)...

March 3-4, 2013 at Lake Ming, be there! (THE STOCK OUTBOARD WINTER NATIONALS ARE THERE, TOO.)

[capnzee]

I don't understand--why would a sponsor "cut back" on the the number of trophies a "gifter" would be willing to donate to a specific class? It would only help to "grow" interest in the COR class. There are a lot of COR guys new to boatracing who have never received a boat racing trophy, five trophies would give them a great opportunity to "reward" them for their efforts. On another topic. Is it official, COR's will be on the sanction? Rod

[AZOutlaw]

"Napoleon" is the Race Director, I would contact him to make sure CORR is on the Sanction App.

[capnzee]

Thanks for the suggestion AZ! How would I go about contacting "Napoleon"? I am not sure who this person would be. I do know that we have about 8 COR boats planning on racing and probably more--their question, as always, is: Are we on the schedule? are we racing at Lake Ming? at Puddingstone? I'm doing my best to help the COR guys, mostly new to boat racing/APBA "find their way" in a new(to them) class /sport. In a sport "fighting for survival" (APBA & boat racing in general) I hope that everyone who has years of experience in APBA will be patient with our new COR class. We are growing in numbers and that has to be good for all.

[Ron Hill]

"Napoleon" basically said he is giving three place trophies, and can buy the same from ........... Mike Follmer....Yamaha Racer...who sells awards and such...I did want to get the COR trophies ready to display at the L.A. Boat Show...

[capnzee]

I would assume from the last few posts from AZ and Ron Hill that the COR boats are in fact on the schedule. Would this assumption be true?

[AZOutlaw]

Until I see it on the approved Sanction, I'm not assuming anything. It is not posted on the APBA web site yet. Sounds like Ron may know if the class is on the Sanction App?

[capnzee]

Our region chairman should have an idea, however his phone number as was published in the past (928) 291-9489 is not accepting incoming phone calls. I think I may have figured out who "Napoleon" is and he did not return my call--It's holidays and all so that may be a reason everyone is so busy.

[mercguy]

are the "outboarders" the main event or the second fiddle act? Deciding if I am gunna make the trip down...

[AZOutlaw]

are the "outboarders" the main event or the second fiddle act? Deciding if I am gunna make the trip down...

We are a big part of the show.....and Ross' own son will be racing in ASH....so...that makes us the 1.5 fiddle act

[Ron Hill]

I'll be honest here, I checked into renting Lake Ming for a race. No matter how I cut it, Bakerfield would be a $5,000 loser, to me. "Napoleon" and SCSC have stepped up and are promoting these Winter Nationals. I think we need to support the race the best that we can.

I hope to see many from Region 10 at Ming!

[AZOutlaw]

I'll be honest here, I checked into renting Lake Ming for a race. No matter how I cut it, Bakerfield would be a $5,000 loser, to me. "Napoleon" and SCSC have stepped up and are promoting these Winter Nationals. I think we need to support the race the best that we can.

I hope to see many from Region 10 at Ming!

I couldn't agree more

[mercguy]

you will get Reg10 support.......

[Ron Hill]

Just wondering how many Sidewinders.

ADD:

I think, the way the Winter Nationals will be held are as follows.

Saturday will be the Winter Nationals, If Sunday is "BLOWN OUT". This will be noted on the sanction as I understand it. The last time the Winter Nationals were at Bakerfield, the Championships were on Saturday and everyone went home on Sunday and the sponsor was left holding a negative balance.

So, plan to race hard on Saturday, if you win, pray for rain on Sunday....or Race hard again on Sunday!

[mercguy]

Sidewinders??? I dunno.....maybe 2........if I go, I will have to bring the class (DSH) with me.............but, Bob Williams is putting a DSH together for 2013.......will probably discuss it more with Jeff and Marlee at the National Meeting..............but do know, a LOT of 20/C racers from Reg10 will be atending...

[AZOutlaw]

Sidewinders??? I dunno.....maybe 2........if I go, I will have to bring the class (DSH) with me.............but, Bob Williams is putting a DSH together for 2013.......will probably discuss it more with Jeff and Marlee at the National Meeting..............but do know, a LOT of 20/C racers from Reg10 will be atending...

you should bring that AX rocket of Gowin's down here for Marlee to contend with? ;)

[Joe J]

Ron:

The last time we went to Bakersfield, ( probably 10 years ago) we only ran one day, due to the $80 entry fees. I know this hurts SCSC, but look at it from a different angle.

$80 to run one day, ok I completely understand the $$ associated with running an event.

BUT, if the entry fees were $60 per day as long as the driver paid for both days, the club would gain an addtional $40 per person over the weekend.

Ming is probably my alltime favorite venue, but I refuse to pay $80 entry fees.

Joe



Just wondering how many Sidewinders.

ADD:

I think, the way the Winter Nationals will be held are as follows.

Saturday will be the Winter Nationals, If Sunday is "BLOWN OUT". This will be noted on the sanction as I understand it. The last time the Winter Nationals were at Bakerfield, the Championships were on Saturday and everyone went home on Sunday and the sponsor was left holding a negative balance.

So, plan to race hard on Saturday, if you win, pray for rain on Sunday....or Race hard again on Sunday!

[Ron Hill]

I don't hink it was quite ten years ago, but count the boats, figure the expenses. Joe, you have put on a race or two.....Bakersfield water isn't free, APBA sanctions and insurance aren't free either. Again, Marlee and I penciled in the entries and expenses....at $50 per boat per day, the sponsoring club will lose $5,000 for the weekend.

Let's look at the expenses:

1. PA system $1,000
2. Ambulance at $100 an hour....$2,000 for two days
3. Rescue: 4-5 rooms plus fooD, $500 per day, two days $1,000.
4. APBA INSURNACE AND SANCTIONING FEES: Sanction fees $400...Stock only is $2,400, ADD INBOARD AND OPC around $2,000 more.
5. Water: $500 A DAY PLUS 10% OF THE ENTRY FEE....($1,000 FOR THE WATER PLUS 10% OF ENTRY FEES ???)
6. TROPHIES: $1,000
7. OFFICIALS: $ ZERO???

Now we are at at: $10,500 plus ten per cent of the entry fees. The park collects the motorhome parker fees, so ther eis no profit there.

So:

AXS---8 boats
ASH--- 10 boats
20 SS Hydro---5 boats
C Stock Hydro---6 boats

45 SS 4 boats
SST 45 6 boats
COR ---8 boats
Nostalgia---6 boats
GN ---8 boats
Cracker Box 5 boats
Super Stocks 5 boats' Comp Jet 8 boats
Pro Stock--- 4 boats

K-Boats ---3 boats.

72 entries per day...or 144 for two days.

This comes out to $72.92 PER BOAT PER DAY. AND THIS IS EXPECTING OUR OFFICIALS TO WORK FOR FREE. AND RESCUE TO WORK FOR ROOM AS I DID NOT INCLUDE THEIR FOOD.

Tell me where my figures are wrong. I feel $100 per boat, class will be needed to break even.

[Joe J]

You are missing my main point. I have put on enough races to know how it works.

My point is very simple:
$80 per class per day, fine.
BUT, turn that into $60 per class per day IF PAID IN ADVANCE, for BOTH days.

The people that only run one day do it because of the high entry fee. If you lower it with the gaurentee of running two days instead of one the club comes out ahead.

Joe





I don't hink it was quite ten years ago, but count the boats, figure the expenses. Joe, you have put on a race or two.....Bakersfield water isn't free, APBA sanctions and insurance aren't free either. Again, Marlee and I penciled in the entries and expenses....at $50 per boat per day, the sponsoring club will lose $5,000 for the weekend.

Let's look at the expenses:

1. PA system $1,000
2. Ambulance at $100 an hour....$2,000 for two days
3. Rescue: 4-5 rooms plus fooD, $500 per day, two days $1,000.
4. APBA INSURNACE AND SANCTIONING FEES: Sanction fees $400...Stock only is $2,400, ADD INBOARD AND OPC around $2,000 more.
5. Water: $500 A DAY PLUS 10% OF THE ENTRY FEE....($1,000 FOR THE WATER PLUS 10% OF ENTRY FEES ???)
6. TROPHIES: $1,000
7. OFFICIALS: $ ZERO???

Now we are at at: $10,500 plus ten per cent of the entry fees. The park collects the motorhome parker fees, so ther eis no profit there.

So:

AXS---8 boats
ASH--- 10 boats
20 SS Hydro---5 boats
C Stock Hydro---6 boats

45 SS 4 boats
SST 45 6 boats
COR ---8 boats
Nostalgia---6 boats
GN ---8 boats
Cracker Box 5 boats
Super Stocks 5 boats' Comp Jet 8 boats
Pro Stock--- 4 boats

K-Boats ---3 boats.

72 entries per day...or 144 for two days.

This comes out to $72.92 PER BOAT PER DAY. AND THIS IS EXPECTING OUR OFFICIALS TO WORK FOR FREE. AND RESCUE TO WORK FOR ROOM AS I DID NOT INCLUDE THEIR FOOD.

Tell me where my figures are wrong. I feel $100 per boat, class will be needed to break even.

[AZOutlaw]

I agree with Joe and have been preaching the same thing, only problem we in R12 have, is water time with 34+ heats without elims. Lower the entree fee's 30% and gain 40% more entries...its easy economics, but restricted with uncontrolables.

[Ron Hill]

You are missing my main point. I have put on enough races to know how it works.

My point is very simple:
$80 per class per day, fine.
BUT, turn that into $60 per class per day IF PAID IN ADVANCE.

The people that only run one day do it because of the high entry fee. If you lower it with the gaurentee of running two days instead of one the club comes out ahead.

Joe

You have a $10,000 nut to pay....minimum...How does lowering the entry fee by 25% make the club any money? now, if you raised th entry fee to $100 PER CLASS PER DAY, and offered $80 entry fee paid in advance with NO REFUNDS, maybe this would work.

Maybe I'm using Obama Math...but !!

[Joe J]

It's very simple.

$80 per entry=drivers running the winter nationals day ONLY- Total income for the club is $80

$60 per entry if PAID IN ADVANCE FOR BOTH DAYS = $120 per driver for the two days of racing.

The way my math works the clud gains $40 per driver.




You have a $10,000 nut to pay....minimum...How does lowering the entry fee by 25% make the club any money? now, if you raised th entry fee to $100 PER CLASS PER DAY, and offered $80 entry fee paid in advance with NO REFUNDS, maybe this would work.

Maybe I'm using Obama Math...but !!

[Ron Hill]

If you don't race Saturday, and then Sunday gets blow out. Saturday's race WAS the Winter Nationals and YOU didn't race.


You race both days for $80 as day. If Sunday doesn't get blown out, Sunday is the Winter Nationals.

If these rules are stated on the sanction, they are the rules.

What happened at Bakersfield last time, ERoss ran the Winter nationals Saturday, with Sunday a blow out day. All classes ran Saturday. Weather was perfect, everyone (almost) went home Sunday morning.

[Joe J]

I understand those are the rules, and SCSC has every right to use them. I also have every right NOT to attend, based on those same rules.

PERIOD!

By your own admission, most everyone went home Sunday morning. BUT, if the entry fees would have been lower for BOTH days combined, how many of those racers would have stayed and ran? Using my #'s for reference, our trailer alone would have given the club $160 in additional income.


If you don't race Saturday, and then Sunday gets blow out. Saturday's race WAS the Winter Nationals and YOU didn't race.


You race both days for $80 as day. If Sunday doesn't get blown out, Sunday is the Winter Nationals.

If these rules are stated on the sanction, they are the rules.

What happened at Bakersfield last time, ERoss ran the Winter nationals Saturday, with Sunday a blow out day. All classes ran Saturday. Weather was perfect, everyone (almost) went home Sunday morning.

[mercguy]

If you don't race Saturday, and then Sunday gets blow out. Saturday's race WAS the Winter Nationals and YOU didn't race.


You race both days for $80 as day. If Sunday doesn't get blown out, Sunday is the Winter Nationals.

If these rules are stated on the sanction, they are the rules.

What happened at Bakersfield last time, ERoss ran the Winter nationals Saturday, with Sunday a blow out day. All classes ran Saturday. Weather was perfect, everyone (almost) went home Sunday morning.

"What happened at Bakersfield last time, ERoss ran the Winter nationals Saturday, with Sunday a blow out day. All classes ran Saturday. Weather was perfect, everyone (almost) went home Sunday morning. "

well, that is the racers choice, especially ones that have a 20hr drive home.......forcing people to stay (especially out of region racers) makes it even worse..............sorry, but that happens at all Nationals..............find a sponsor, lower the entry fees and you WILL get more entrys...........I love Bakersfield just as much as the next guy, but knowing it is so expensive to race there, maybe it is time to find somewhere else. I for one, am not going to pay $160 (1 class at $80/day) for a class I would have to bring (DSH)..........

[casey wright]

lower the fees for out of region racers i bet you have more entries personally i would like to see joe and his c hydro race i believe most people think like him why pay the high entry fees rather stay home so i support lowering the fees for out of region racers

[capnzee]

As region 11 often does for us!. The COR boats race in region 11 for 50 dollars and they "love" us and even try to give us some money back. Isleton is a perfect example of "the way boat racing used to be". Good friends, great spectators, great beer, great food, lousy pits, so so race course, but the race committee and the town of Isleton make up for it. Too bad region 11 has the water and we have the boats.

[Ron Hill]

JUST AN FYI: Every post made here, by me, about he Winter Nationals 2013, are ONLY my opinions. I have no part of putting on the Winter Nationals 2013, except that I offered to buy trophies for COR. Everything else, I've posted, including number of possible entries, and entry fees, is strictly my opinions. I have no idea what entry fees will be charged for the Winter Nationals.

I did email Dan Weiner at APBA and asked to see what the sanction said. His answer was that he is out of the office but like let me know.

Wait for official word, from APBA, on entry fees and other items covering this race.

It is my hope that as many Stock Racers from other parts of America, can attend the Winter Nationals at Lake Ming, Bakersfield, California.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

So how come the 2013 Winternationals are in the National Pepper Association thread? I was thinking of entering some peppers, but it was still too cold.