Swift Big Bee project

[craigcraftdave]

I just purchased this swift Big Bee.
It came out of Georgia in the 60's to Washington.
can anyone tell me who raced it? numbers f 55
Does anyone have any old pictures?
I was told it was run in C with a 30 h in the 60's, can a B boat run in C?
any idea of the year of this boat?

[BJuby]

How long is it? Our 1952 Swift A/B is 9' flat. You're lucky, mine didn't have racing numbers on it.

Letter first means it was alky no? And what state is F? Georgia? (anyone have a list of the APBA letters per state?)

[Heliarc]

I just purchased this swift Big Bee.
It came out of Georgia in the 60's to Washington.
can anyone tell me who raced it? numbers f 55
Does anyone have any old pictures?
I was told it was run in C with a 30 h in the 60's, can a B boat run in C?
any idea of the year of this boat?

Nice find. Not a lot of those Big Bees around anymore, especially in that condition.

To answer your question "can a B boat run in C?". In a word - yes. Not something I would have been comfortable with, even in my youth, but I had seen it done a number of times in the mid to late 60s. There was a guy from Long Island, NY by the name of Bruce Hurd. His boat number was 110-N. He ran B (20H Conversion) stock hydro and C (30H) stock hydro on the same 9' 8" SidSon B boat. It was a sight to behold watching that B boat run down the straightaway with a 30H on the back of it on a windy day in choppy water at the Long Branch, NJ race. :eek: Bruce definitely had a pair.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

.............and I found that to be true. I purchased one new in about '57/'58 along with a new 30H and ran it successfully for several years, both as a stock engine on gas closed up exhaust, and also against the PR's of the day in "C" Alky Hydro. I had a couple of alky carbs that had been modified by a local guy who ran an "A" Merc against the "KR"s" of the day, and changed the timing a little when running on alky. Best I remember it was about a 58-60 MPH ride on gas and pushing 65 on alky with an open exhaust (not pipes) but basically stock powerhead Also ran it with a B on alky on a Quicksilver lower unit, but the power head was a highly modified Wizard Super 10, and it ran competitive speeds against the "SR's also.
Very stable safe ride at those speeds but never ran in white caps either.

Some place on the net are old copies of Boat Sport and there is a test in one of the issues of a BIG Bee and 30H with prop and set up information. I think the article was by Hank Bowman

ADD:

This boat pictured was pretty much a copy of mine, right down to the hardware and paint color and scheme. They were very attractive and well built boats for the time, and Joe Swift did a great job marketing them. I purchased mine thru the local Merc dealer, who also sold Speedliner's, and I seem to remember the price of the boat was right at 600.00 with crate, frt, paint, and hardware. The 30H was also in that price range but I don't remember the exact figures after this much time has passed.

[crewman060]

in the 50s and 60s and today ga folks run F.Danny Piggott may have some info on who ran F 55.nice find.

[F-12]

Back in the late 50's through the time of his death in 1972, Ben Perry ran F-55 on his F cabover.

[Danny Pigott]

I would say this is a 57/58 Big Bee, it has a hard deck and long cowl, I have a 56 with soft deck an the cowl is shorter . Bill is right they made what was called a B/C it must have been in 57. The one I have is 9 foot 6 in. the thing they like to do was barrel roll my dad to me that and I found out. The A/B Swift liked to stuff. Ralph Donald might know something about this boat if it came from GA.

[BJuby]

I've stuffed our 1952 A/B Swift once. Not a fun experience. Other than that, it is a very fun hydro to run.

[craigcraftdave]

Thanks for all the info guys! I would really like to get an old picture of this boat racing if someone can dig one up that would be amazing!

[zul8tr]

How long is it? Our 1952 Swift A/B is 9' flat. You're lucky, mine didn't have racing numbers on it.

Letter first means it was alky no? And what state is F? Georgia? (anyone have a list of the APBA letters per state?)

Look here section 9 page 11

https://www.apba.org/sites/all/files/documents/2013-SO_MO_PRO.pdf

[craigcraftdave]

Look here section 9 page 11

https://www.apba.org/sites/all/files/documents/2013-SO_MO_PRO.pdf

so this would of been a PRO boat, basically that means the motor can be modded any way you want as long as the mods are allowed by the APBA. And the class would be based on displacement? Right?

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

so this would of been a PRO boat, basically that means the motor can be modded any way you want as long as the mods are allowed by the APBA. And the class would be based on displacement? Right?


If you are making the decision that this was a PRO boat based on the number that is on the boat NOW, unless you know for certain that was the original number when the boat was originally purchased sometime in the mid 50's, you will want to remember that Swift boats were primarily known for competition in the Stock category, although I understand from various information in reference books he started with Alky boats but when Stock came along his business really took off numbers wise. Also take into consideration the speed ranges of the various classes as they competed in that time frame.

I gave you my best recollection of the speeds attained with a 30H on alky with no other modifications other than an open exhaust, and it was competitive within 2-3 MPH of some of the better PR's which was the reining top alky motor at that time. This time frame (mid to late 50's) when I was racing a Big Bee was also the same time that Dieter Konig came to the US to introduce his new at the time motors to the US market. Based on the complete annihilation of the C Hydro field after starting a lap behind, because he was not familiar with the starting method used here in the US (clock start), I do not think I would have wanted it on my Big Bee. I do not remember now just what type of boat he ran it on, but something borrowed I am sure, and certainly bigger than the Big Bee. Probably a D class Hydro, or at least a dedicated C boat. I consider my self very fortunate to have seen him on his first trip over to the US to introduce his motors as they later became the dominate engine in the PRO category for quite a number of years. A motor still made and sold here, the KONNY, also a European made engine, is the same basic design engine he was building at the time of his death 20 years ago, and still is competitive although with more modern porting and pipe design. I seem to remember that his A was a single cyl, the B a two cyl, and the C a three cyl, and all the different models could be assembled by just adding cylinders, although he probably changed lower units when adding cylinders. I have wished many time I paid closer attention to what he did regards assembling the cylinders and different lower units, to come up with the different classes at that race. I always meant to ask Scott Smith about it but just never did, as I am sure he was probably with Dieter on that trip.

Also remember that even now, boat size (afterplane dimension) is pretty much the determining factor in the speed range a boat is suitable for. Also if you look at the Swift brochures that have been posted on HR
you see that several other larger sizes of boats were available for larger faster classes run at that time, and the BIG BEE was specifically mentioned as for B-C, and other larger boats such as the BIG D used for faster classes. It was very unusual in that time frame that speeds exceeded 70-75 MPH even with the much larger Alky motors such as the 4-60.

Though APBA has been the dominant player in Boat Racing for a number of years, especially Stock racing, please remember that in the time frame these boats were made there were other sanctioning organizations such as NOA and a number of clubs that ran a large number of races in the Midwest, South, and Southeast with no affiliation to a national organization. This was especially true prior to WWII as the Stock category really was not a factor/did not exist until the early 50's or so. Consequently a lot of boats manufactured during this time frame did not cater that much to a category that was just getting its "feet wet" so to speak. Also remember the close association that Joe Swift had with Kekahaefer (SP?) during these years that probably influenced his decision what categories to manufacture boats for.
There are several good books on Boat Racing during this time frame that would give you a lot of good information if you are truly interested. "Iron Fist" covers to some extent Joe Swift's boat building years and his relationship to Mercury and the Stock category motors.

You are basically correct in your example of the PRO category rules, with some present exceptions such as OSY400, PRO J, etc.I think if you go back over the history of Boat Racing, especially in the 10 years or so right after WWII, you would find that the majority of Joe Swifts boats were built with the Stock Category in mind, especially the boat you are interested in. Not to say the Big Bee was not a suitable Alky boat, as it was, based on the speed range the B & C Alky motors were attaining at the time and as long as it, and others of Swift manufacture were not pushed to exceed the speed range they were designed for. Just saying I do not believe it was designed specifically as an Alky or PRO boat, AT THAT TIME. Again, I am basing my notions on MY experience of the time, for whatever that is worth to you.

One final note on boat numbers of that time frame. First I have no idea how long the numbering system with letter first then number, and vice versa has been in existence in APBA so that makes it difficult to definitely state the numbers on the boat,whether original or not, indicate whether it was run in either the PRO or Stock category especially if you are not sure if they are the orginall numbers. Also to be taken into consideration is even an A alky motor as early as 1968 when I started back after about an 8 year layoff, would have been too much motor for a Big Bee as they ran in excess of 70MPH at the time and you would want a bigger boat than a Big Bee for that class. Also please remember also that as mentioned there were other sanctioning bodies/clubs putting on races at the time with drivers who never paid dues to APBA. I have no idea whether those other organizations had a number/letter rule like APBA, but I never saw a driver use the number before the letter in the PRO or alky category unless they just wanted to be different, of which there were several.



ADD: If you access the various threads referenced at the bottom of this page and the first one, there is more information about Joe Swift and his boats and history of his company.

[capnzee]

"kiekhaefer"