Formual 150 tech rules???

[Instigator]

Printed them off last season and they were pretty vague.
Does any one know if their have been any additions/changes especially to the JohnRudes??
Thanks Guys,
Gary

[Miss BK]

Hi Gary,

This are the tech rules you are probably talking about:
http://apba-racing.com/Categories/OPC/Rules/Form150RuleBook2004.pdf

The APBA Annual Meeting is coming up in February, but I don't know what is on the agenda for this class, if anything. Changes for any of the classes will be discussed at this meeting and whether to put them on the ballot.

If you want to check the pulse of the class, you might want to attend one of the Fall Region Meetings where some of the other Formula 150 drivers may be attending. Those meetings will be happening over the next couple of months and the details will be posted as they come in to the APBA MEETINGS database. http://apba-racing.com/Events.php?Meetings=

The best bet would be to contact the APBA OPC Chairman, Mike Weinandt at apbaopc1@charter.net . He'll have all the scoop as well as any possible changes that might be on the horizon. Good luck.

[Instigator]

I think that's the same as I already had but looks to show no changes so far.
May piddle with one and don't want to end up with a ground up piece of junk after an unexpected rule change.
Did that with a Mod 20 project. Finished the project to find out there was basically no class :o
Thanx again!

[Erick]

If you have specific questions you may email me. We race the F-150 class regularly and were involved in the making of the rules.
thanks,
Erick Adams
R-10

[Instigator]

If you have specific questions you may email me. We race the F-150 class regularly and were involved in the making of the rules.
thanks,
Erick Adams
R-10

A message is on it's way.

[Instigator]

haven't heard back from anybody so am left to my own accord to interpert tech rules??
As written the exsiting rules look to be written by Mercury as usual.
2.0 Champ motors with "any mods" allowed??
(as written that's the motor I'd run)
"Modified" (???) Merc 2.4 oval and brideports allowed.
2.7 JohnRudes allowed only "as cast" !!! (you're freagin kiddin right??)
So lets see, ground on 2.0 and 2.4 Merc (pure bread) race motors against STOCK JohnRude fish motors?? A three port motor that is tuned for 5500 RPM and no mods against 10K + RPM race motors?? Did Carl K. write these rules??
Can you say "pissing in the wind"??
I can.
From what I've been able to learn so far it looks like a class for the 120 guys and for the guys with the old 2.0 Champ motors to make a couple bucks on the weekends.
The good news is that personally I think the basis for the class is the "Second Coming"!!
Give us the leeway to make a Johnny (and a Suzi and a Yammi) competitive and I will be the first to add lead to the boat if we got it figured out "too" well. (give me .050" exhaust port height, allow fingerports, and to cut .100" off the heads and lets throw down!) You're giving the Mercs 30 cc heads and a stock 2.7 Johnny is 48!! Come one Carl, give us a freagin break!
Trust me, I know what it's like to have your *** handed to you.
When I first read of this class a few years ago I was geeked. I thought it was a true work bench motor class.
Let us cross breed parts,build our own mids etc and watch the spectator stans fill up.
You want to bring back racing????
Mod VP (almost) reborn??
Make the rules fair and lets throw down baby!
I love the concept of this class but lets get it right before it and the rest of our sport dies. Enough of writing the rules so a certain brand wins.
After all, it's our sport not theirs!
Remember, history has proven to us over and over again what happens to our sport and it's classes if we allow it to be controlled by the engine manufactures. You need only look at Offshore, Stock O/B, Drag or OPC to see the results.
It's great while they're writitng checks but as soon as they stop then we're left wth our heads buried in the sand the same as they've always been!
Gary

[Erick]

Sorry its taken a few days. Went racing :D You have a message coming.

[Instigator]

Sorry its taken a few days. Went racing :D You have a message coming.

Back at yah.

[TABARARACING]

There are alot of good engines out there. Some people swear the 2.5 is the way to go. Some say 2.4's. I am the only active person in the country running the 2.0L. Its too hard to play catchup all the time. The 2.0L has no chance at the start dock. Even if you can spin upper 9K the 2.4's seem to create too many problems. I think if the 2.0L champ engine was AT LEAST allowed the stock head that they came with from the factory it would make the out of the hole more fair.
The old 2.0L are not the way to make a few bucks, a good 140 will beat them every time on a shorter coarse. If you are considering running in the midwest 9/10 races you probably wouldn't like the results of a pre 89 2.0L with the head rule in place.
I've ran some coarses in our local club and ran faster lap times with my 120 than my 2.0L champ.

Just my .02.

Come on up to the local races up north, we'd love to have you up here. Bring a 2.0L if you think its the way to go! My 2.0L is the only thing I have, it spins, and most importantly, it don't break! (yet)


Brian
brian@tabararacing.com

[larry swinford]

haven't heard back from anybody so am left to my own accord to interpert tech rules??
As written the exsiting rules look to be written by Mercury as usual.
2.0 Champ motors with "any mods" allowed??
(as written that's the motor I'd run)
"Modified" (???) Merc 2.4 oval and brideports allowed.
2.7 JohnRudes allowed only "as cast" !!! (you're freagin kiddin right??)
So lets see, ground on 2.0 and 2.4 Merc (pure bread) race motors against STOCK JohnRude fish motors?? A three port motor that is tuned for 5500 RPM and no mods against 10K + RPM race motors?? Did Carl K. write these rules??
Can you say "pissing in the wind"??
I can.
From what I've been able to learn so far it looks like a class for the 120 guys and for the guys with the old 2.0 Champ motors to make a couple bucks on the weekends.
The good news is that personally I think the basis for the class is the "Second Coming"!!
Give us the leeway to make a Johnny (and a Suzi and a Yammi) competitive and I will be the first to add lead to the boat if we got it figured out "too" well. (give me .050" exhaust port height, allow fingerports, and to cut .100" off the heads and lets throw down!) You're giving the Mercs 30 cc heads and a stock 2.7 Johnny is 48!! Come one Carl, give us a freagin break!
Trust me, I know what it's like to have your *** handed to you.
When I first read of this class a few years ago I was geeked. I thought it was a true work bench motor class.
Let us cross breed parts,build our own mids etc and watch the spectator stans fill up.
You want to bring back racing????
Mod VP (almost) reborn??
Make the rules fair and lets throw down baby!
I love the concept of this class but lets get it right before it and the rest of our sport dies. Enough of writing the rules so a certain brand wins.
After all, it's our sport not theirs!
Remember, history has proven to us over and over again what happens to our sport and it's classes if we allow it to be controlled by the engine manufactures. You need only look at Offshore, Stock O/B, Drag or OPC to see the results.
It's great while they're writitng checks but as soon as they stop then we're left wth our heads buried in the sand the same as they've always been!
Gary

Gary and others,

Formula-150 rules were not made by any Manufacturer!
The class was designed for local and sport racing to be as competitive and as inexpensive as possible and not restricted to one factory engine as in series racing. If you want no rules then you can run Mod-U as inthe past.
The norm for 150 is based on the old SST-140 class therefore engines with more ci's are restricted to stock blocks.
I spent hours, days and weeks designing the class and fought an up hill battle to get it approved as a National Class. The Merc 2.5 stock block has less ci's than OMC,Yamaha and Suzuki and is competitive.
If over time there are changes needed the rules can be amended.
150 is a growing class while other existing classes are dying so quit complaining.There is a racer in Detroit that is putting together a couple of OMC engines to race in 150.
I have run a 120 ( 1976 to 1990 models ), a 2.4 oval, a 2.4 bridgeport and a
2.5 stock block and have won with all of them. I have never run over 8200 rpm with any of them. Maybe you need a better prop. There is such a thing as torque curve to be considered. I ran the same prop on all engines.
I sent the rules to Ron to publish ( original 2003 ) and if there are any current updates I will send them to him.
150 races are being run in three or four regions of APBA already.
I've already started my 47th year of racing and hope to run my TIIX in 150 this year for the FUN of it this year. I race for the fun, friendship and enjoyment of the sport. I hope I've been some help to you.
I'd like to get a Formula 120 Class started for sport racers as my 1990 SST-120 engine has been obsoleted by the new version of the SST-120 and the alterations that are being allowed because of Series racing.

Larry C.
that are not supposed to be allowed in an SST Class.

[Ron Hill]

"I've already started my 47th year of racing and hope to run my TIIX in 150 this year for the FUN of it this year. I race for the fun, friendship and enjoyment of the sport. I hope I've been some help to you." Quoted from Larry Swinford.


BRF is an Encyclopedia...seems to me you should have a few pictures from 47 years of racing...Why haven't you posted them.....?

Maybe, I'll run Fatc and formula 150...NOT..maybe, Chad can run 45 and Formula 150...and Formula 120...Trouble is I only have one Formula 120 block...AND GREG FOSTER HAS ABOUT 20..and 200 pistons.... Hmmm....
maybe we could call this Classs the Foster 120....and gbet Greg to donatge some part for a tax write OFF!!!!!!

ADD: So, you could run Formula 150, change pwerheads and run Formula 120...?? Any thing given to you if you run a number four Speedmster, as I have two??? (Just do our best, huh???)...

[larry swinford]

Hi Ron,

My aim for Formula-120 would be carburated engines only.
Old 120's, pre1989 champ engines, SST-120's old and new,
no nikosil blocks?,OMC,Yamaha and Susuki engines if they have an engine
close to 122 ci's.
Same boat rules as F-150 and same rules on parts, center sections and
gearcases.
Nothing off for #4 gearcases as I have two of them and usr them for long
races and rough water. They pull the same rpm and speed as my #6's with
the same props.
I will draw up the rules as soon as I can verify what engines are available.
I would like to make it an APBA National class and You know what an up hill battle that would be. They want to keep me away from their sacred cow SST-120. The 1990 SST-120's are the same specs as the 1976 120 engines, but they won't allow the old engines even though they were sold as a production engine. The latest SST-120 engines are not the same as the 1990supposedly homolagated engine and are stronger than the 1990 engine.
When you were VP you agreed the old engines were legal per the rule book and I tested with both engines and they were equal.
I sold my house in Washington and all of my pictures are in a U-Haul truck up there. If I find a picture I'll send it to you if you don't laugh. It's been run over four times and doesn't have a fancy paint job. The best part is the spectator following she (my boat) has and they don't want me to paint her.

larry c.

[brichter]

Larry, Instigator is right, there definitely is a more than a hint of Mercury
bias in the F-150 rules. I am glad the class is going well and there seems to be good competition, but the way OPC is going, you can ill afford to discourage any driver that would like to "throw something together" and run a race with some hope that he will win. I don't think there should be any fear that someone with a 2.7 OMC with the same mods as a 2.4 full race Merc is going to show up and dominate regardless of the difference in displacement.
I watched the F-150 race at Kankakee last September, all boats were Merc powered. It was OK to watch, but as a spectator I would have liked to see some head-to-head competition between different brands. Relax the F-150 rules until you get a couple of OMCs (Bombardiers) and/or Yamahas at least showing up and then you'll know you got them about right.

F-120 is a great idea. Be sure to include the old OMC SST-100 motor in the rules, there may be 1 or 2 left that weren't shipped to Costa-Rica

[larry swinford]

There was no bias towards Mercury. Just a lot of available equipment. The merc 2,5 is restricted to a stock fishing block just as the OMC,Suzuki and Yamaha and it is the smallest ci of the four. I would like to see other brands being run but need to see some run before any changes are made. They have more ci's and torque and that has to be taken into consideration. I forgot to add the Chrysler race engines as I didn't know if any still existed. I was using known facts and experiance to try to balance the class. I have run a four cyl. OMC, a McCulloch and a Chrysler 150 besides Mercs. Do you have any idea how difficult it was to get the class approved. I have had five classes killed andshot out from under me over the years.

F-120 will include the SST-100's and any other engines that will fit in. TIIx's can run in both classes. The main purpose is to build OPC and pull people back into racing. If you noticed SST-100 was included in F-150 and it was allowed to be modified.

Larry C.

[Ron Hill]

Larry,

Are you in Havasu full time now?? I may be in Havasu a week from Friday as I plan to stop and see Joey D'Cucci's new shop....but then again I may not be there for ten days, and that would be on my way home...

I thought the Number VI had a different gear ratio than the Number IV? Are you sure they run the same props at about the same speeds???

A ship is a SHE and your boat is a LADY...but I vote to paint it, make HER look like a Harley...chrome attracts attention. Handsome is as handsome does was Manny Carnakis's motto and he built Lake Ming...You've built Formula 150 and I'm betting, it will be OPC's largest class by 2008.


The YOUNG GUNS and a few old ones who run the Western Formula Lite Series all have clean looking stuff. They have four new drivers this season.....

Our FAT C's will have an award for Best in Show at every race.....
It is the OFF SEASON, I vote to paint her.....She is a CLASSIC but.......

I vote, aslo, to just say Yamaha and Evinrude...do your best, there ain't any rules for you guys except carbs.....no EFI!

[larry swinford]

Hi Ron,

I'll be in Havasu till the first of May.
Call me at 928-680-6586 and let me know when you will be here.
I'll try to schedule my time so I'll be here.

Even Bill Seebold has admitted the #4 doesn't slow you down.
I worked the numbers and the #4 ratio is not very far off from the #6.
I ran a #4 for three seasons and did great with it. I had to park it until I get a new set of gears. (it was used when I got it) Handles great.
I think the Suzuki would be better than the OMC and Yamaha. I worked on one and it had a nasty bark to it.

larry c.

[Ron Hill]

I ended up with some Suzukis V-6's when I bought Larry Soares Mod Vp Baker and his two Sport C boats....Those SUCKERS are really heavy...

I need a saddle for a Champ mid section...I have a housing, old style, and two number fours....Maybe, I'll build a Formula 150 motor.....I have a cherry 2.4 MOD VP block (Chrome) and five 2.5 black steel sleeve blocks...

Will a 2.0 EFI block be legal in Formula 120 with carbs?

What is an easy (Quick) way to figure which carb is needed for Formula 150 and 120???(As I have a ton of carbs and intake manifolds that I got from Fred Bowden... Would you runa number IV on 120????

[Erick]

I believe Brian Tabara won the Nationals with an old 2.0 champ motor with carbs.

Larry and I have always differed on the IV and VI gearcase.:D I believe there is some differences in speed and rpm between the two. But I do like the IV a lot, it makes for nice handling ;) Plus they seem to last longer!

[larry swinford]

They are a little heavy but you only will use the powerhead.
I have some center sections and some extra parts in a truck in WA.
Is the 2.4 an oval port or a bridgeport. I'm guessing its an oval port since that class hasn't run for a long time. If the 2.5s are stock blocks they are legal. No grinding allowed.
2.0 liter blocks including pre 89 champ blocks will be legal with carbs.
Just plug the injector holes or use a carb front half.
The best carbs to date are the SST-140 or early SST-120 carbs if you have any. I've even used the old #1s.
I haven't had any problems using my #4 with my 120

larry c.

[larry swinford]

Hi Ron,
I had to change my address today to get rid of spammers.

<larrysr707@npgcable.com>

Let me know if you get it.
larry c.





I ended up with some Suzukis V-6's when I bought Larry Soares Mod Vp Baker and his two Sport C boats....Those SUCKERS are really heavy...

I need a saddle for a Champ mid section...I have a housing, old style, and two number fours....Maybe, I'll build a Formula 150 motor.....I have a cherry 2.4 MOD VP block (Chrome) and five 2.5 black steel sleeve blocks...

Will a 2.0 EFI block be legal in Formula 120 with carbs?

What is an easy (Quick) way to figure which carb is needed for Formula 150 and 120???(As I have a ton of carbs and intake manifolds that I got from Fred Bowden... Would you runa number IV on 120????