Plastic transoms !!!!!!

[phillnjack]

first off im Not sure if this is the right section to post this, so i am sorry if its wrong place

Has anyone here had or use a transom made from recycled plastics ???
i am renovation (destruc t and rebulid) my boat as the transom was totaly rotten.

i was going to use brand new marine ply inside the back but have since been looking at some stuff called ecosheet and also stokbord.
'this stuff is made entirely from recycled plastic and the information on it says its stronger than ply and will not rot.
it good for fresh water tanks,can be used in salt water as well,is never gonna rot and can be cut with noram tools.
Its not the same as the coosa board, this stuff is just about the same weight as ply in same thickness etc, but seems to be ideal if it can be stuck down with epoxy or polyester resin and cloth etc.
i just wondered what is the downsides to something like this and has it been used by one on this forum.
i like the idea of a transom that cannot go rotten as my boat is not like a normal boat thats easy to take the top off and just replace the transom and stringers etc.
the boat i have is like a classic 13 boston whaler and ive managed to get it apart in two halves.
The boat will again be filled with foam between the 2 skins and will have a new transom put in,but i am thinking should i go with the ply or try the plastic transom.
i dont want to be putting it in then finding its not gonna work, as once back together this boat will NOT ever come apart again.
It took 5 days to get the 2 skins apart and only lucky that i made a special tool by pure accident to let me get at the foam and cut it.
you can see by the pics below that this was a bit of a task.
any info on a plastic type transom would be great

also my transom is just 2 x half in boards with small centre section of another 1/2 inch board.

the transom board did not go all the way across, but will be when put back and tabbed in realy well and also the back corners toughened up as well
proginaly rated to 50hp, but i am going to probably end up with 70hp when i get bigger carbs.


phill

53652536555365453653

[zul8tr]

Not a fan of the plastic for your transom repair because it tends to creep flex under load and not return.

I would clean out all the bad wood and just leave the outer fiberglass of the hull at the transom. Clean rear fiberglass well with acetone or laquer thinner. Then make a good fitting marine grade 3/4" x 2 piece plywood transom piece. Laminate (weights or clamps or stainless screws as needed) the 2 pieces together with epoxy thickened with some cabisil before install on the transom. Then epoxy all edges and back face (aft) then install this unit to the transom bedding it with good dose of cabasil (fumated silica) thickened epoxy on aft and edges. Come up with a rig to force the plywood unit to the hull at all areas till epoxy sets. Fill in any low areas around perimeter and transom top with thickened epoxy. Sand transom wood unit and adjacent areas of hull. Epoxy all interior exposed transom wood with unthickend epoxy. Then lay the fiberglass cloth on the inside of the wood unit and wrap to the existing hull. Use more unthickened epoxy to fiberglass the cloth down. Before complete set up apply another layer of fiberglass and unthickened epoxy. Add fiberglass to corners as desired. Use three coats of unthickened epoxy to seal off. Prep and paint color as desired.

I would not use polyester resin for any of this repair it will not hold up. Epoxy bonds much better to wood and old polyester and is stronger. Here are some resources on the subject of epoxy repair.

http://www.westsystem.com.au/west_system/products/publications

Use a good brand of epoxy. West is one of the good brands but not cheap.

[David Mason]

One Add

If you do decide to go with wood, and in the instances ZUL8TR indicates using thickened epoxy, i would use a high density filler and not the other. If you look at the West Systems products, the 404 Filler is the one to use, it has superior strength vs the other fillers. Other than I would probably do it the same way he describes depending on how hard it is to get at. And in my opinion, a transom needs that strength. Be sure to paint or seal off any exposed epoxy, as it is not 100% water proof or UV proof. It needs sealed.

[zul8tr]

Dave

As you note the West high density filler 404 will work but so will their silica 406. I just use the silica for structural bonds in my hydroplanes and other structural repairs and no problems and they last without rupture.

The West article section 5.3 deals with a transom repair similiar to what is contemplated here and they use either 403 or 406 for the new plywood piece install.

http://www.westsystem.com.au/files/products.publications/rm_fiberglass_boat_repair_and_maintenance.pdf

This West table indicates the uses for the fillers.

http://www.westsystem.com.au/west_system/products/fillers

They list the 404 high density as a hardware mounting filler and 406 silica as a structural filler.

[David Mason]

Unless they changed something, the tensile, flexural, and elongation stengths were much stronger in 404. Could be they changed something, I have not looked at the techincal data for a while. I just use what I have experience in and can predict the results in from my own expereinces.

[zul8tr]

Who knows? They always change things. Maybe Phillnjack should call West to get the straight? BTW both 404 and 406 contain silica per their MSDS.

[phillnjack]

well the west system stuff is not going to be used for sure.
Its an absolute mental over the top price over here in the uk, as is epoxy resin

Now i know everyone is saying use the epoxy etc,but i am going against this idea, and will only have myself to blame if it all goes wrong.
the advice is probably what i should of gone with but thats now not happening.
(
its gonna take a long while beforethis rots or falls apart, so hold all the "i told you so" for little while.
Because many boats have been succesfuly reapired using poly and csm in the past. !!!

As for thickness of the ply !!!!
I cannot fit 2 pieces of 3/4 inch boards in this boat due to there not being that amount of space in between the two shells of the boat.
This is very similar to boston whaler classics in that there is not much room beteween the two skins.
in the centre of the transom it is 3pieces of 1/2inch ply, but only for 20 inch wide at the top and 11 inches at the bottom.
then its back to 1 sheet of 1/2 inch ply on the hull section and 1 piece of 1/2 inch ply on the superstructure.
The superstructure shape gives the boat a lot of its strength, plus the foam that gets inserted and creeps around all the cavities.
I have ground the hull back to fibreglass and its 100% clean, and will be using poly resin and csm on the transom.
I have completely encased the main transom board with poly and 225csm , plus also covered the centre section ply with the same.
This means before the wood even goes in the boat all the wood is completely encased with cloth and resin to help preserve the ply.
The only place that water will get to the ply is through the transom hole inbeteen layers of glass/wood/glass/ wood/glass if i dont seal this area when it goes back together with a new drain fitting.
On the transom ply i have cut out a 3 inch diameter circle where the transom drain tube will be fitted and covered the edges with epoxy resin to seal the wood, then filled the area with resin and csm.
The hole when drilled out will have a 1inch diameter all around it that is glass and epoxy not just bare wood, this will also be sealed when it goes in with epoxy resin to make a good seal. (i hope)
If any water gets in the boat on the main floor this cannot get to the inner hull due to being bonded and a complete seal all around.
This i have done before with skikaflex and it does make a very good waterproof seal.
I found a couple of damaged areas in the hull bottom and repaired those by grinding the inner hull back to fibre strands and put down 2 layers of 450 csm and it has bonded extremely well.
in one other place i bonded in a small piece of wood to see just how good the bond will be to test it.
I have tried as hard as possible and cannot get it apart, so the theory of the new poly not adhearing to the old seems a bit of a myth to be honest, as this is a very strong bond, maybe if people dont go all the way back to strands its a
weak bond i dont know ?, but by grinding with 24 ggit silicone carbide disc's i have the hull looking in a raw state if that
makes sense and very rough to the touch and this takes the new resin and cloth very very good..
Like i say i have found 2 areas where the hull had been penetrated at some time and i have done very good strong repairs.
The transom i have also ground right back to fibres and again got a very good bond on it with layer of 450 csm.
On just the transom of the hull (not on the superstructure transom) i will have used a round 5 kilo's (11 lbs) of resin.
on the superstructure i will use around 3 kilo (6lbs ) of resin.
i will of used around 6 square meters of cloth on the hull transom and around 3 square metres on super structure.

The Boat originaly had the transom ply just 36 inch wide, i have used 53 inch wide as this is where the transom starts
to bend round at the corners.
i have also kept the transom board a touch higher at the sides of engine well to help with strength.
The original ply was also only bonded to the transom with some rubbish sort of glue and relied on the ski eyes mainly
to hold the board in place.

There was fittings for original rope type steering pulleys on the outer edges of transom but these fittings did NOT go through wood just a void filled with foam.
Now new bolts will be going through 2 layers of ply and 3 layers of cloth as will be used for small fittings on the inside.
these will ofcourse be sealed with epoxy then re-drilled and sealer used to make sure again no water penetration.
All engine bolt holes have been drilled to 1 inch diameter and filled with epoxy resin and glass cloth then re-drilled to 1/2 inch for the transom bolts.
So again this gives a waterpoof seal to the wood and will also have sealer on the bolts when engine is re-fitted.

The original section of wood that was attached to just the small space where the engine was fitted was the only place
where 1 of the ply pieces was glassed in.
This was also the only piece of wood to have survided in tact and not 100% rotten.
If all 3 pieces of ply had been covered with resin and cloth then the transom would of been still good and servicable.
It was rotton due to the boat being allowed to have water enter the lower cavity where the wood was not sealed or encased in anything and not repaired and water allowed to just penetrate uncovered untreated
ply.
The ply was not treated in anyway whatsoever, and was just in put in by very lazy boatbuilders.
This type of boat never has a transom rebuild, and i dont know of another one thats ever been taken apart to this extreme.
(not saying its never been done,but i do not know of another, and the makers of this boat have never heard of one being taken apart)
The boats are built exact the same way as classic whalers in that they get bonded then filled with 2 part closed cell foam to fill the entire cavity and to give strength and this causes what they all claim to be a unique bond that cannot ever come apart , and makes the boats unsinkable (Titanic was unsinkable ??)
Now this is where the poor workmanship comes in big time, your never supposed to be able to see any
of this very poor and cheap work !!!!!!!

When i spoke to the makers of this boat and asked about how it was built, i was told it was very much like i am going to be doing to it.
But when i managed to get it opened up,it was not even close to what they had claimed.

If just 1 metre of cloth had been put on to the cover the wood, it could of saved all this work i am now doing.

On the superstructure they did cover the wood with cloth ,BUT they left the bottom corners without
bending around the wood to cause a seal, so ofcours the wood uses its capillary action and draws
up the water to rot the wood even though encased in a single poorly laid piece of cloth.
again the sizes of ply they said are fitted are nothing at all like what i found in mine.
it was 10 inches narrower at the top and the bottom again narrower than said.
I honestly think if just 10 minutes more attention to detail had been done at time of building,then this
boat would of lasted many more years to come.
This boat was built in 1979, ok its 34 years old and im moaning about the rotten wood, but if you go and buy a new boat that is very expensive for its size then it should last a lifetime unless damagaed ofcourse.

On the rear corners of the hull there is also a lot NOT to be desired, strengtheneing pieces of cloth that look like they should of been chucked in the rubbish bin were used instead of some nice larger pieces.
These corners i will ofcourse be re-enforcing with large amounts of cloth and again plenty of resin used.

The inner hull bottom is getting 2 new extra layers of 450csm put on as well and will continue to the transom and up the back to give more stability to the hulls rigidness.
it will make me happier to know ive got a slightly thicker hull than the 1/8th of an inch original !!!.

The amount of wood going back in works out to almost double, and the grade is better as well.
It will all be encompassed in glass and all edges sealed with epoxy before the boards are put back
into the hull and on the superstructure.

I have had a few people tell me i am going way over the top with the rebuild, but i think im just doing
what should of originaly been done when the boat was new.
These boats when built the way mine was are rated for 50hp, mine i hope will be well capable of taking my 60hp and not snapping the transom off especially if a fit a jack plate later on. ?
I didnt get a great deal of movement with the old transom, i am very suprised at that seeing as
how rotten the plywood inside the boat was.

Now i know a lot of people claim that poly resin is no good and dont stick and is not waterproof, but i
have not found this with the stuff im using.
I got my resin and cloth from a place that sells all different types of resin and sells about 10 different types of poly resins and also about 7 different types of epoxy resin.
The stuff recommended to me by this company is the stuff that is Lloyds aproved for boat repairs and
for ship building.

This stuff is call "Crystic 2-446 resin if that makes any sense to those in the know !!!

over the next few days i have a good few repairs to be done to the superstructure and also plan
to make a few pieces stronger as well ,then hope to start putting it all back together.
Then i have the job of re-foaming the boat,:mad:
That bit i think just might cause its own set of problems, as i dont want holes everywhere on show.
I am thinking of 4 large stereo speaker holes to aid in putting foam back in the large cavity of the boat.

when ready to go back together i will take planty of pics to show how its all been done (or not if it goes wrong).
before i put the new glass on the seam of the 2 shells i am going to do a dry run to make sure
everything lines up and fits back together ok.

if anyone can think of or know of any thing i might be forgetting to do on this rebuild please let me know, i am
sure there must be something i am forgetting, but once this gets re-joined then its stays joined, never to be
opened again by me thats for sure.



phill...........:cool:

[zul8tr]

Ok Polyester resin it is. So sand and clean well with acetone all areas of the existing fiberglass that will be overlapped with new glass and polyester resin. Fit whatever thickness of ply works for the clearance.

[phillnjack]

now the acetone thing

ive heard many people say tp use acetone, and also a few people that say under no circumstances use it as it can leave traces and cause the resin to fail

is there something else that can be used like white spirit or turpentine ?
i do know that acetone is actualy a paint stipper and is sold as nail varnish remover as my wife bought some ?

phill

[hydroc888]

Hi Phil . I dont normaly get involved here but I have fixed , foamed, built, changed many boats in my life. Took a Glastron 173 and made bass boat out of it . Took 5 Avengers and made [ what would be called COR 100s ] out of them.
Epoxy will stick to polyester , Polyester wont stick to Epoxy . Polyester stick to polyester just like you were putting it in a mold. Age dont matter as long as you gring the old down to good stuff, like the strands you were talking about.Grind it down , clean off the dust and glass , dont be afraid to get it real wet with resin Fiberglass cloth or mat or roving has no strenghth on its own , and you know that , but when inpregnated [ can I say that on BRF? ] it has all the holding power it takes to go 100 MPH, that has been proven over the years. Acetone is used to clean your brushes , and rollers as it will CUT THE RESIN and you can use it for thinning resin for spraying but I would recommend Tuline instead. I wish I was young enough to play with the new Kevlar products.
Foaming a boat= The way I did it was cut 3" holes about 2 ' apart in the double bottom from transom to bow, if you have stringers then you have to make holes in everyplace you want to foam and save the pieces ,attach plywood pieces to the 3" plugs so they will span the openings. Most important is raise the bow considerably above the transom height so YOU DONT TRAP THE FOAM . If you trap the foam to where it cant expand it Will worp the bottom beyond repair , seen it done, Pore fome in the first hole and let it expand when it get close to the second hole and looks like it will overflow put a plug in with screws and got to the next hole making sure you get all the hull full. This works for any foaming on your boat.
Thats it for me .
Hydroc888

[zul8tr]

I have also used laquer thinner but prefer acetone because of its quicker dry time. I have not heard of the acetone causing bonding problems.

Here are some resources that support acetone

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-add-additional-layers-of-fiberglass-resin

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/surface-preparation/

Here they use acetone for the repair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsoKAHU5xUw

There are other resources outthere but looks like acetone is ok.

[phillnjack]

Well i did use the acetone in the end, i thought many people say to use it, so gave it a try.
I let it dry for a good while first though, and then went ahead and done a bit of work to it.

I put an extra layer oof glass on the transon before i fitted the transom boards and then put another layer
over the top of it all and ofcourse tabbed it all in very good.
There is a couple of tiny little bits i need to get done tommorow,but bad light as stopped ply for today ha ha .

I am well suprised at how strong it is already and i have not even done the white superstrucutre yet with its board.

I do have a slight problem though and tommorow hope to have a dry fit before putting wood on the white shell.
I have an idea im gonna not have enough room for it to go back on by the time if fit the next bit of ply to the white shell.
This is going to need a good bit of thinking about, as i have to have the two shells fitting like they originaly were.

I am hoping that i do not have to put a thinner piece of ply on the white and realy want to stick to the 1/2 inch
and not have to go down to 9mm to make it all fit.:mad:
It seems the extra layers were just a bit too much for the gap, but its dont now and no going back ha ha .
ive just worked it out and ive gone about 4 layers of mat and resin, originaly it was just 1 thin layer !!!!!!
so i have probably made it about 1/4 inch thicker !!!!!!!!! :confused:

The hull is so much stronger now than it originaly was, even without the top shell fitted.
Atleast now i am very confident that my 60 hp evinrude will be fine hanging on the back of this boat.:cool:

After a dry fit tommorow and if all is well i can get on and put down a couple of layers on the hull floor/blige, this
will make the hull even more rigid.

I have also strengthened the rear corners of the boat as they were a bit crap to be honest, the makers had used
scraps of fibreglass and not realy big enough so i have made sure these areas are also strong now.

I pretty happy with how its turning out, its not as pretty as many ive seen on the forums,but its not a mess neither.
its definitely 100% better than the day it was made.:p

Now i know im jumping the gun a bit, but when the top all goes back on is there any hard and fast rules to
do this a certain way ???

I am thinking of getting the top almost on and keeping it about 3 inches above the lip and then just putting in 2 layes of
cloth all around the lip and making sure its realy wet then just letting top come down and rest on it with its own weight
and maybe put a few bolts through it as well !!!!!!!!
at the back of the boat the last 1 foot of the inner white shell was supposed to originaly been fibreglassed to the
hull, but again it was not fibreglassed at all .
I plan on checking the gap to see if i can put a layer or two between the 2 shells when it gets lowered onto
the hull seam.



phill..;)

[zul8tr]

When you put the top back on consider polyester filler type putty for filling gaps and structural bonding inlieu of the fiberglass cloth that you suggest. See link below. You sand and clean both mating surfaces real well wipe down with acetone, apply a thick layer of the putty and put the top on then bolt thru with SS bolt and nut. Could pre drill all holes and even countersink the top and use flat head bolt for a neater appearance.
Look here at the 345 product for what I suggest as a type of product

http://www.lbifiberglass.com/FAIRCOMPFILL/faircomp.html

[phillnjack]

are now thats not a bad idea at all,sort of polyester filler paste.
The reason i was going tu use the csm and resin is becase thats how it originaly was stuck together and was in good shape all round the two halves.
I only have a small lip about 1 inch wide to put this on and then the heavy duty rubber fender goes over it .
i have thought about using nuts and bolts like you suggest to just make sure i get it all even and done in one go .
the two seams with be ultra clean for sure,all the old crap was and is still being ground off completely.

i know that a lot of places over here use the csm and fold it in half then wet it out so it stands up a touch before being compressed down while being put together.
But the paste idea sounds a lot easier and would be a lot easier to apply and probably get a better bond.
Would this type of past be strong though, as when the foam goes back in that will put the bond under a bit of pressure, ?
can i just mix up a lot of chopped strands with resin and make this type of thing as i dont think we get that over here in the uk, and anything shipped to us is crazy on the postage.
Postage to uk from usa is what stops a lot of buying from usa,its tripled in the lat 18 months.

But i realy do like the idea of a paste to use,it would make life a lot easier.
any idea how thick it would need to be as this if i can find some will probbaly not be cheap.




phill

[zul8tr]

Can you get cabisil (silica powder) filler? It is used to thicken polyester and epoxy resin. You could also add the fine chopped glass cloth. As far as a bond that will hold when you pump in the foam is the reasion I would use the bolts. Polyester sets pretty quick and that would be an issue to secure the top to the bottom over such a long perimeter near 26 feet. In using the polyester putty or the cloth method you suggest you need extra hands to apply and drop the top. Because there will be little time with polyester setup thus to secure with bolts I suggest have a bunch of clamps and secure top to bottom with them every foot or so then come back after bond set and secure with the bolts. All the pre drilled holes will have to be cleaned out again due to the putty that will be there or better yet don't predrill them and do all the drilling after the clamps removed and the filler has set. I would do a bolt and nut about 8" on center and would countersink the bolt in the top cap.

Consider using the polyester filler used in auto body repair that will also work in this application and it should be available in the UK. I would think that when secured with bolts there will not be a seperation issue and the product being polyester based is compatable with that peoducts you are using.

I fully get the shipping bit from US to UK.

[phillnjack]

i know what you mean about getting it done quickly due to set up.
the lip around the boat is just over 33ft.
today i shall look around and see what i can order, before ido i will try to find the cabisil stuff or a similar type thing.

all this advice is good,stops me making terrible mistakes ha ha ha


phill

[zul8tr]

Since time is a constraint an epoxy based filler would be the ideal choice due to a longer set up time and a stronger bond, maybe you can find some local. You don't need much and the extra cost here could be worth it. You can also use the cabisil to thicken the liquid epoxy to the needed mayonaise type consistency.

[phillnjack]

Ok i will look up about epoxy type stuff to use,i think the place o got my glass and resin does an epoxy filler,i will
go on their site and have a look now and post what i think they sell that might be ok for me.


phill

[phillnjack]

Hi guys
a friend has come up with some stuff thats used mainly in the building trade,
its a 2 component styrene free EPOXY ACRYLATE RESIN.?????

now this stuff comes in tubes and is used with a gun, its about the same sort of consistancy and silocone thats
used for bathrooms etc and goes abosolutely rock hard within 20 minutes.
the nozzle for the stuff actualy mixes it for you, it starts at the bottom of nozzle 2 different colours and at the
end its a sort of dark green.


the site about the stuff says good for concrete and solid surfaces.

is epoxy acrylate resin thats styrene free ok to use for the bonding of the hull to superstructure ?
it realy does seem very very tuff stuff, or will it damage the fibreglass in any way

hope somebody knows if this is ok for me to use


phill..

[zul8tr]

You got me on that one? Hope somebody else chimes in for you

[phillnjack]

I hope its ok as the consistancy is great for the bonding of the seam,and with the gun he has given me it
would be a very quick application.
He says he is gonna try and get me another gun tommorow and good few tubes of the stuff !!!!
there is 380 ml in each tube,so no idea how many i will need but he said he will get loads ha ha .

ive looked on the net and cant for any info as in good for fibreglass or not.
I do know its realy strong stuff.

i tried it by putting 2x4 on end on a bit of scrap exterior plywood, 20 minutes later there was just no way it was comming apart.
when i finnaly managed to break it apart the ply broke up not the bond,it dries rock hard like steel.
even the grinder didnt like this stuff,its realy tough.

if this is ok then it will be nice to do the job with 2 of us doing the seam so it dont set before i get all the way round.
I would of prefered a slower setting stuff then could say ive done absolutely every part of this project on my own.

But i have never heard of epoxy acrylate resin before, and no idea what styrene free means,is that a good thing or
a bad thing for me ?

I done a dry run on the two parts of the boat today and everything fits nice, the transom is a touch out of line due
to my new transom being about 1/4 inch thicker, that is not a problem at all just a very slight bit of grinding and
the heavy duty rubber fender can go back on no problem at all.
I re-drilled the holes for the engine as well today and so almost ready to go back together.
About 3 hours of meesing around doing a couple of repaires to fibreglass stringers and a quick application of 2 extra
layers of glass on the hull floor and its ready for refitting out, all sounds so easy ha ha ha


phill

[David Mason]

That stuff is OK. Not my first choice, but I think it will work in your application. You do not need total strenght from a structure standpoint when putting the two halves together. The bolts will provide a lot of your holding power. The styrene free is a good thing. That is like wax or no wax. I always prefer no wax unless it is a mold application of sorts.

[phillnjack]

Im realy happy somebody has said its ok as my friend just came round with 3 more tubes of the stuff ha ha .

It is a very strong stuff and today i got a bit of it and used the grinder on it to see what it grinds like.
seems a very nice finnish with the grinder.

I also done a little bit of an experiment on a pice of fibreglass scrap, and that has bonded realy good as well.

Today i put down a couple of extra layers of cloth on the hull so now its just a couple of repairs and then
the top goes back on.
Ofcourse being very warm here today 23 deg c the resin was going off pretty quick and i did run out on the very last piece i was doing so cut it short by an inch in one corner ha ha

I am very pleased with everytrhing ive done to this boat so far,once its all stuck back down then to just re-foam it,
stick the consol and engine back on and hen its gonna get a nice test down the river.

once i have found everything to be ok then i might even let the wife join me for a trip down the river ha ha ha

She has helped with the project by bringing me cups of coffee and toasted cheese and ham bagels to keep me going.
But then again she might have done that just to keep me at the garage and out of her way ????????

you guys on this forum have been a great help.

phill

[zul8tr]

post some latest pics of the repairs

[phillnjack]

Im just putting the pics on now
(i knew there was something i had forgot )

Starting to clean the hull of all the crud
53820

its very dusty work grinding the glass back to like new, the scaffold board was for me to use to get along the hull without causing any damage, without the top on this is very weak area and the reason i put extra layers on the hull floor was to beef this up a fair bit before the stringers go back down and join to it.
53821

But it has to be done so you know what your dealing with, and i found a crack in the hull while grinding.
i realy didnt know it was there before, and ofcourse i repaired this straight away with plenty of
cloth and resin and made triple sure its perfect now.

This picture shows me putting a jemmy bar under some piece of rubbish that a previous owner had used to
do a repair on the hull.
This is where i found the crack about 14 to 18 inches long and very very poorly repaired.
53822

[phillnjack]

Template for the new transom board.
53823

this pic shows the size of the drain plug versus the size of area filled with epoxy and glass.
Once i cut the hole for the new drain ,then no water can get to any of the wood if the seal should decay.
53824

This one shows man at work on tea break..ha ha..
cup of coffee,cheese and ham Bagel, and a ciggarette to finnish it off nicely.
also notice only half of the transom on superstructure is cleaned !!!!!! tea break stopped work, but it
did resume after 10 minutes and got completely cleaned of all old marks and rubbsih ready for a new layer of glass to be applied for the new wood to bond to.
53825.
Here goes on a layer of 250 csm to give a nice fresh face for the new transom to sit against.
53826

[phillnjack]

The new transom wood on the white superstructure is a fair bit larger than the silly little piece originaly on the boat.
The makers claimed it was going to be a full side piece of wood in there, i found it to be far from full and in
this pic it shows by the black lines of the original size compared to the piece im now using.

53827
.

[phillnjack]

Test fit of the new wood on the white superstructure before any fibreglass is layed on it.
this was to make sure that i could get tabbing done everywhere on the board and the white

53830

In this one i used a spare mid-section to redrill the engine mounting holes in the right places.
this was just a dry fit to make sure the seam all lines up when everything gets bolted back on.
luckily its all perfect and all inline 100%. The stainless plate is what i use as a transom saver !!!!!
But dont panic, i will be shaping this and making it a slight touch smaller.
53831.
.These pics show the stringer system all fitting on or near the hull floor, these will get bonded back to the hull once the seam has been completed and i will be using some epoxy paste stuff for these.
53832
53833
53834.

[phillnjack]

This picture shows one of the stringers was broken away at the side of the superstructure and cut with a saw in the middle.
This was not something i have done, it was like this and just covered over with fibreglass that was not
even attached properly, so the boat was never as rigid as it should of been when i got it.
This simple repair i still have to do, hopefully tommorow if i can get some more resin .
53835[/ATTACH for some reason this pic has gone to bottom of page ????????
.
.

This pic below is the transom board being tabbed in on the hull.
It was already put against a wet layer of new glass that had been put fully across the transom from
top to bottom.
Once tabbed in it was then covered again in a cimplete layer of glass that also goes around the sides of hull by around 8 inches.
The small pices on the floor were just glassed in to hold the transom in place to save trying to get
huge clamps.
The method worked well as it had to be forced down behind these to give a real tight fit and then the beams at the top and bolts to close any other gaps.
The wet fibreglass layer behinde the bord was made very thick with cloth and resin to keep any imperfections in the fibreglass at bay and to make sure its a full seal.
The board was already fully encased in fibreglass cloth and resin and almost dry before it was put onto
the transom to be tabbed etc
[ATTACH]53836
.
.
(another quick tea break , so a cup of tea and a cheese and ham home made Bagel):)
Behind the main board there is a small section of board where the engine fits.
This i call the centre section and this board is purely a template before the transom got cleaned and fresh glass layer put on,
53837
after giving the complete transom a real good clean, I cut the real board, covered that fully in cloth
and resin ,then covered the mid section and the rest of the transom in a layer of cloth and resin, then
put the centre board in while this was still wet and then covered the centre section in a layer of cloth
and also the whole transom.
While all wet the main board was put up almost in place and then smothered in resin and attached to
the hull and all bolted in place.
So although you can only see 1 board on the transom of the hull there is infact 2 pieces of wood.
Then i once dry i did another dry fit to make sure everything was still going well and yes its fine.

a lot of the pics i have are almost all the same and a lot did not come out due to me getting a bit of resin
on a camera cover !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will take a lot more pics as the boat gets nearer and while its being put back together.

phill..:cool:

[zul8tr]

Hard work and excellent results. This repair/rebuild should give many years of satisfaction and pleasure. Nice documentation for you file.

[phillnjack]

Well the boat has come a long way since the last pics.
I have not only repaired the stringersystem but re-joined it all to the hull with the epoxy stuff, then filled the
large voids with foam then put the one piece fibreglass floor back down.
The space between the two inner and out sheels that make up the boat have been filled with closed cell foam
so the bouyancy should not be too much of a worry and the strength and ridigity will be better anywa
The fender rubber is now on but still needs around 10 screws to finnish that off properly.
The steering consol is bolted back on and also the engine is back where it belongs,on the transom ha ha
all the controls are back on and i even remembered to make two new battens for the controls board
(the original old one rotted away and looked crap).

The boat just last week looked like it was not going to ever be looking right,i was getting a bit dispondant about
the whole thing ever looking or being right.
Once the floor was back in everything changed big time, i could now see a boat again and not a heap of fibreglass.
here is a few follow up pics that i took of the boat comming back to life.

Floor back in
54088

Its all down and sealed and screwed down
54089
consol and seats placed in
54090
new remote controld wood battens screwed on.(there is wood behind fibreglass to take the screws)
54091.

[phillnjack]

Then it was time to bolt the seats down and then put the engine back on.
For this i even made a crane effort to attach to the engine stand i made for the engine to sit on anytime i want to work on it.
i made the stand from heavy duty 2x2 steel square tube and made it so it can come apart or fold away.
The poor engine sat on this for a few weeks being totaly ignored but covered up.

This shows the stand i made

its 30 inch wide and 50 inch long at the base
the uprights can be unbolted and the plate the engine fits on is adjustable to abe able to take
a 30 inch transom engine if i ever needed it to. it can also take a huge amount of weight.

54092

the crane effort i built for the job was just very simple attachment to the stand and dont look pretty but does the job.
i used a spare winch of 1,500 lb capacity and attached that to an upright.

54093

[phillnjack]

now it was time to see if i had drilled the Bolt holes in the right place and see if the engine lined up in the
right place.

all went perfect, the engine stand/crane done its job perfect as well and made life much easier than trying
to lift and manouver it around by hand or have someone at the front moving the trailer etc, i should of
built myself this stand years ago.
anyway now the boat has the engine on the back and raised up as much as possible to go testing with.


It all seems to fit nice and easy
54101
.
Now for wiring it all back up and fit the remotes etc.
54100

Put the lid back on and think about whats next
54099

Stand back,admire my work and try to think of anything ive forgot to do ?????
54098

I am happy so far with how its all gone, this was one very big project for me as going in blind
and not knowing what to realy expect.
It didnt help matters with the two shells being stuck together with the foam.

If it had just been a case of taking the cap off a speedboat and doing the transom it would of
been a bit easier but obviously still a lot of work.
From looking at it with old dodgy eyesight it dont look like any of the hull has warped or changed
shape etc while the two halves were apart for a month.

I cannot think of anything ive missed out putting it back together and im sure ill get to the
river and then rememeber something vital !!!!
i have had to fill in the space where the drain plug is going as i have to order one on the net
and with it being a bank holiday ill wait till tuesday for that.
but for now its been filled back in with epoxy and ill use a small bilge pump if i have to.

The engine is raised up and the cavitaion pate is around 2.5 to 3 inches above the very bottom
of the boat.
This is a huge difference as the original mounting was around 1 inch below bottom due to wrongly
placed and drilled holes by an idiot for the bia pattern .:confused:
(the idiot was me in too much of a hurry when mounting the engine for the first time):mad:

it now just needs to be started up for an engine check and then its off to the water to see if it still floats or if its gonna sink.!!!!!!!!

the project is not an easy one and i wouldnt reccomend it to someone who wants to do it on a weekend.
this takes a lot of time and patience to get the two halves apart and lots of messy clearing up and
the dust from the grinding is unbelievable with fibreglass and foam mix.

But it can be done and can give you back a nice strong transom to hopefully go on boating for another
couple of decades.

i do still have to clean the boat and give it a polish, but thats just normal routine.

I could not of done this job without many suggestions and see what others have done on forums like
this one.
This forum gives many people hopes and dreams of getting their boats fixed up and back on the water.
Some just want to see how fast they can get their rig to go, others want to have the finnish and
beauty of some of the top race boats on this site.
Either way its all inspirational to us folk who have attempted a few things we would not have done without the forums.

All the questions and answers is brilliant,we all learn so much from here.

Now i have just have to test it :cool:



phill..

[zul8tr]

Good show, great job. Get back to us with the testing.

Good luck.

[Fastjeff57]

After having recently replaced stringers, bulkheads and decking on our 19 foot CG Aux patrol boat , I compliment you on a fine piece of work!

Jeff

[phillnjack]

Well testing went a bit strange to honest.
The boat was great and stayed true when running, but i was expecting a little bit more from certain props.
The stainless 13x 19 sst (original 1972 race prop) gave me 38.3 mph at 5800rpms with 11% slip and was very
good on the pull away as well, it gave good midrange acceleration and the boat handles very nice with that
one and a smallish rooster tail left behind me ha ha .
i then tried a brand new (old stock) omc 12 3/4x23 alloy prop and that was a disaster, it just would not grip on pull away and once it did sort of grip it was crap at handling and only got the boat upto 36mph @5800rpms slip
is a disasterous 31% !!!!!!!! ,this prop just realy was nothing like what i expected it to be and looks doomed to the
back of the boat cupboard forever,it was just cavitating like mad all the time, obviously the engine needs to be
very low down for that one to work.
Then i tried 13 3/4 x 23 stainless and this was not brilliant on pull away but gave me 39.8 mph.
with this prop i was getting 5500rpms and i think the prop needs to be a touch higher to get it to let the engine spin a bit more.
this prop is a omc silver streak,it been used successfully in a speed record on a e-tec 90, the fellow i got it from did say the prop likes to run high !!!!
it certainly kicks up a bit of a rooster tail once it gets going, and definitely raises the back end of the boat up
compared to the sst prop.
from about 30mph the acceleration is instant, infact from 20 its very quick to get to top end, the engine dont
seem to struggle with it at all,just need a bit more on the top end to be realy happy.
Im not sure if i will get much more revs with a jack plate though as ive never used one.

so speed wise i have not gained anything realy, but i do think the boat handles a lot better on the straights.
there is no sign of any wobble and no listing to either side etc.It feels a good bit different as in morerigid than before
but this might just be because i know its more rigid due to more layers of glass and new transom etc.

The transom is as solid as a rock and all went good, i think i was hoping for too much with the prop testing.

i will be using the boat for recreational stuff like kneeboarding and towing toys with a 15 pitch prop and a
few odd bits of fishing and now and again a blast out with a few other boats.
i know its not a racer, but was hoping for mid to high 40's from the outfit.
today ive noticed the bottom carb was not getting the carb opening up like the other 2 so ive now sorted that out.
maybe a jackplate would be the answer to a bit more top end ?
i dont know nwhat the idel revs would be with the semi-cleaver, i know the limiter comes in at
between 6500 and 7000 but if i get upto these revs am i going to be producing the power ???

ive heard lots of bragging with similar outfits and people talk of stupid speeds,those that are totaly out of the question but like i say mid to high 40,s would be very good for me, so ill probably get a jackplate.
But is a jackplate going to be any good when i want kneeboard behind the boat or use my ski-seat ?
if i get a jack plate then im restricted to about 5 inches of setback because of boat fitting in a garage, so im
thinking 4 inch of setback with 5 inch lift to give me a propshaft centre inline with hull bottom to run the
semi-cleaver that bit higher, but need it down low for the alloy props that dont like any air at all.
would i get a better/lower slip score with th prop higher as the slip works out about 18% and i think that is too much slip.


phill