Kankakee OPC NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS Never again!!!!!

[spn#43]

After $900.00 in car fuel, $200.00 in race fuel, $150.00 race entry fee, $400.00 hotel bill, five day out of work, finally got my prize money check after only 1 month of delay in amount of whopping “$105.00” :eek: :rolleyes: !!!! For Mod-U class!!!!!
$1650.00 – 105.00 = -1545.00 ???? HELLOOOOOOOOO anybody home :confused: ??????

On the other part of disappointment, my brother had all the same expenses as above with only difference his race entry fee was $400.00 and he was promised by “Joe Walz” (local promoter or what ever) $500.00 for local sponsorship which he never received and worst of all they kept part of his Champ Boat check for reasons unknown to us. :mad:
By the way local sponsor was “Pepsi of Americas” that was presented in two premier classes over period of four days for FREE!!!!!! :rolleyes:
This letter is just a warning for other drivers and teams that may consider going to race at
Kankakee OPC NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, no meter what they promise to you or promote don’t believe and don’t waste your time or money, it ain’t worth it.


SPN- Motorsports :mad:

[B VALACHOVIC]

I dbout very much that everyone will stay away from the National Championships no matter where they are. That wont happen. What should happen is that the contestents get together and resolve this with the promoters A.P.B.A. U.I.M.(thats what mod U is) and Indeed any misuse of funds or prize money was done ,have the governing body with the contestents resolve this. One contestant alone will notbe able to do this, it will have to be a group. If in fact they kept your Champ boat Check and no one knows why start there .

[MN1]

I was only able to attend as a spectator this year because of health reasons.
I don't know how prize money is awarded when there are two race clubs putting on the race. Maybe your brother will recieve a check from the Champ Boat series? I would think that you should contact someone from the Great Lakes Boat Club about your prize money for Mod U and the sponsorship money.
I always thought Kankakee paid out pretty good prize money. If a driver did well, he could pay for costs or make some money.
If you need any phone numbers I'll be glad to help.
Mark Nelson
Kankakee, IL

[john miffco]

i went to the kankakee nationals also,,,,,,

the 1,500 spent for the weekend is about the average money
that every one had to pay out for the event

which is what we spend to travel to any race event across the country...
we race because we love the sport

in motor racing only a select few classes make money
unlimited hydros,nascar,top fuel drags ect.

all the rest have to pay our own way ,,,,,boats,cars,cycles,ect
it would be nice for us all to make money at the sport we love,,,
there are a lot of people trying to make it more profiable
but it hasnt happened yet in the last 50yrs

sorry to hear about the sponsor,,,,you need to contact some one about that
fred miller and the great lakes boat club do not pay out checks for sponsors

i destroyed my powerhead in a heat race
had to put on a motor that would not pull rpm for the long straights
fell down to 8th
and still had a great time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
the weekend cost me more than expected and i dont have deep pockets

the 2005 kankakee nationals was a great event
the weather was perfect
minimun accidents for all the classes that was run
to see bud nolan take 1st in 45's
tabara come from down on the dock to take 1st in formula 150
chris fairchild in F1 was amazing to watch drive away from the pack
and all the other classes to watch

i believe fred ,glbc and champboat put on a great event this yr
and i hope kankakee renews the contract for 2006
john

[spn#43]

we race because we love the sport

Great.......that's why today boat racing is where it is.




sorry to hear about the sponsor,,,,you need to contact some one about that
fred miller and the great lakes boat club do not pay out checks for sponsors
Not true, all payouts and sponsorships were handled by Great Lakes Boat Club.
If it was handled by Champ Boat Series people there wouldn’t be a problem I’m sure.

[john miffco]

yes you are right on both replys

1) we race besause we love the sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that is why boat racing is where it is today.

i wish it could make a profit,,,,,
i need it to make a profit,,,,,,,,,so i can keep on racing

as i said there are a lot of people trying to make it more profitable

all of the series are banging their heads trying to get more sponsors
and new teams to fill classes
the officials are working hard with no pay for the weekend
all teams are spending money out of their pocket to race
i make parts and new tri hulls at or below cost to get more
people involved and able to afford racing a tad more
our region events are at a loss every time with no prize money
for the teams
this wesite is here for the racers doing all they can to save the sport
at no charge

i thank each and every one for all that they do

if every one that loss money to go to a race,,,quit
would there be boat racing today????????

2) since glbc handled the sponsor money pays
then please contact them to fet it

im sorry you didnt make at profit at kankakee
and wont go back,,,,,,,,,
thats your choice and i respect it.

but please understand we have to attend events to keep them.
and all work to save our sport

[mercguy]

yes you are right on both replys

1) we race besause we love the sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that is why boat racing is where it is today.

i wish it could make a profit,,,,,
i need it to make a profit,,,,,,,,,so i can keep on racing

as i said there are a lot of people trying to make it more profitable

all of the series are banging their heads trying to get more sponsors
and new teams to fill classes
the officials are working hard with no pay for the weekend
all teams are spending money out of their pocket to race
i make parts and new tri hulls at or below cost to get more
people involved and able to afford racing a tad more
our region events are at a loss every time with no prize money
for the teams
this wesite is here for the racers doing all they can to save the sport
at no charge

i thank each and every one for all that they do

if every one that loss money to go to a race,,,quit
would there be boat racing today????????

2) since glbc handled the sponsor money pays
then please contact them to fet it

im sorry you didnt make at profit at kankakee
and wont go back,,,,,,,,,
thats your choice and i respect it.



but please understand we have to attend events to keep them.
and all work to save our sport

I could not have said that any beteer!!!!!! Boo hoo, it costs money to race.... :confused:

[B VALACHOVIC]

You know When you have a competitive peice of equipment that you travel all over the country with + a team no matter what it is it takes a lot. Sometimes you have to AIR OUT so AIR OUT SPN MOTORSPORTS Thats why these are forums, hopefully everyone is friends here. Bob

[spn#43]

I’m not talking about making any money at the races, I’m talking about NOT getting what belongs to me (or my brother) check in full amount, giving free advertisements to someone, and taking full MONTH to issue a short check!
And on another issue, yes we are talking about OPC “NATIONALS” and NOT some small local club race. If they are not able to pay a professional promoter to find sponsors to cover the race cost and prizes then they should give it to someone who can!
I support my local club racing and I don’t expect anything in return, as a meter matter of fact when Jeff Grigg used to put on the LOCAL CLUB races in S. Carolina we received bigger checks than what we got at “THE NATIONALS”
I don’t know how is it now in Europe but I remember back in the day when we started racing back in EASTERN Europe, Yugoslavia; Hungary; Poland; Czechoslovakia; Bulgaria all expenses were paid for driver and two crew guys including traveling money, race fuel, hotels with free breakfast and diner and during the day at race for lunch they would make sandwiches or something like that, plus prizes.
On the end of the racing season we would get big enough check as a prize to buy a new Konig and a Boat! But again that was then and I don’t know how is now.
The problem here is that too many people think of boat racing as a Hobby and because of that we should race for free, but Car racing people have different state of mind and that’s why they are where they are and we are where we are – NOWHERE!
BTW; I will continue to race for free at the local regional races but nowhere else.
With Champ Boat Series we are not making any money but at lest we get something in return and they don’t screw you on local sponsorships.
PS: All this reminds me too much on San Diego discussion that we had here some time ago.

[spn#43]

I could not have said that any beteer!!!!!! Boo hoo, it costs money to race.... :confused:

Anything I say on remark like that it would be ugly, so I just won’t say a thing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ron Hill]

We went to Bakersfiled. We showed up Saturday morning, we raced all day...We showed up Sunday morning, we raced all day...I never lifted a hand to help anyone that was putting on the race.

We paid $250 entry fee to run a Formula Light and we may have paid $50 more to run 45SS....

Turst me...the best race of the weekend was Formula Light.....But ask Rudy Raymos what the best race was...Or ask Gery Lewis....The best race is the one you care about...Ask Mark Conavay...Body Palace..Outdoor Network...Cracker Box.....was the best race...

Holly Cow...some of the best boat racing I've seen in 20 years were this weekend........Spectators had free admission....All 50 enjoyed the race...

I may have not liked how all the raced went...or the schedule or the.......but I didn't do anything but race...We didn't expect prize money or trophies...we went to RACE...

Because you spend $35,000 on a Cracker Box or A Pro Comp Motor or an S3000.....You can't say, "OK, I won't race unless I get $20,000." Money comes from sponsors and a big time show....and paying spectators...

Truth is: We aren't what people pay to see...

I don't care how Kankakee paid or when they paid...for 40 years they have put on a QUALITY RACE....From 1956 until 1977 I raced at almost every Stock Nationals......The only money I ever got was from Champion Spark Plugs for winning $100)....But those 20 years were the best years of my race career.......

See, we went to boat races to win...Like George C. Scott (Patton) said to the Russian...I'll drink to one SOB to another....I raced to beat all those SOB's...Harry Bartolomei taught me that in 1967.....

I had won the first heat of A Hydro in Valleyfield, won $100 Canadian dollars...I won the first heat of the John Ward Trophy Race and a $1,000 Canadian...I wanted to race the second heat of A Hydro...Harry, my sponsor, said, "REST." I said Harry, "They pay $100 to win..." Harry reached into his pocket, pulled out 2 one hundred dollar bills and said, "SIT DOWN"....Right then and there I realized I didn't race for the more..I raced to WIN..To beat all those "OTHER" Guys...

When prize money came in, people started thinking the sport owned them something....If we don't have paying fans, and you work for a living, then you aren't a PROFESSIONAL...I know no professional Boat Racers....

We're ALL HOBBISTS!!!!

[mercguy]

Anything I say on remark like that it would be ugly, so I just won’t say a thing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I did not mean it to come out sounding that bad!! :eek:

[Miss BK]

I loved to race too. I raced solely for the love of the sport.

But the only people who can actually say that are the people who have already raced.

So where does that leave potential racers? Those who have never raced? That's not much of an incentive for them to join us. That is evident all across the country.

I remember loving the "family" atmosphere of boat racing. But what about the "outsiders"? I actually saw someone on Hydroracer call another racer an "outsider" simply because he didn't know that the guys who were harrassing each other on a particular thread were actually relatives and just giving each other a hard time. When I saw this guy being called an "outsider", I thought "is that really how we want to sell our sport?" As a tight-knit clique where we call those who don't already know us as "outsiders"?

Right now, other than the big series, that's about all we have to sell -- friendliness and fun. But it shouldn't be reserved for only those who "are part of us" already or we can kiss this sport goodbye.

Even BINGO draws big crowds. That 'sport' is just a hobby too, but there is incentive to buy a card. If you are creative enough, any "hobby" can include a payoff. All you have to do is offer something they can't get anywhere else and convince them they "CAN'T MISS THIS EVENT!"

Getting the "NATIONAL" title is a big payoff, IMO. I went there in 1988 and took second place. My check was $34.00. I spent $200 just to have my boat towed from Arizona to Illinois. I also bought a flight from LA to Chicago and had about 5 days in a hotel room. Total cost was well over $1,000. And then my checked BOUNCED!! LOL!!!!! No kidding!!!

BUT....I got SECOND PLACE at the NATIONALS! Might not mean much to other people, but it sure meant a lot to me - nobody can ever take that away. (And I've got the plaque to prove it too ;) )

Back then there were no local sponsor opportunities. Now that I think about it, I can't understand why that tool wasn't being used back then. But maybe nobody had a thought of it? That's is exactly our problem. Marketing and Promotions has always been our major weakness. We rarely ever try to "Sell" ourselves. Other "hobbies" have taken advantage of this tool for years, but we're only just starting to take notice and are using more creative approaches. It's gotten to the point now where we HAVE to start getting creative, or we won't be around much longer.

Just because this is our "hobby" does not mean we can't create something saleable and put on a good show that people WILL pay to see or sponsor. We just have to think "outside the box" and not just do things because that's they way they've always been done.

What can "draw" both crowds and racers - and sponsors too?

Crowds want: Comfort and constant action. They want to know what's going on. (PA and good announcer and a souvenir program). They want to know WHO the drivers are. Who is the favorite? Who is local? And definitely NO dead time - that creates boredom.

Drivers want: A fair shot. Even competition. Smooth program with qualified, dependable officials (perhaps even paid to prevent volunteer burnout). Prestige and recognition (local TV? Newspaper? Awards banquet? Special Driver's Party?). And certainly a valuable prize (monetary or donated item) for the winning teams.

Increase both Crowds and Drivers and you'll have more opportunity for getting quality sponsors and money.



Every club that is looking for more success should ask themselves, Does my race provide most of these things? If not, what can we do to improve?

[Ron Hill]

What MANY OVER LOOK, is that boat racing has tried to attract new members with the "PROMISE" of "FAME AND FORTUNE"....

I've frequently told peopl that the way to end up with a small fortune in boat racing, is to strat with a large fortune.

I was talking to Fred Bowden, today, about his 6 crusier cars....I said, "What do you do at car rallies?" His answer was basically, we look at other cars, women, and have a few beers...They ain't racing these things, and they don't win prize money and some cost a hundred grand...

WE NEED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT THE FUN IS FRIENDS AND FAMILY....My daughter-in-law (Corey) met Spencer Love's wife at the races this weekend...Three times on the way home my Corey said what a nice person Spencer's wife was ...and that she's 16 weeks pregnant... Maybe, that was a HINT, HINT CHAD......

Point is: No one is an outsides, unless they want to be!!!!

No one that went to Bakersfield last weekend went with the expectation of coming home with any prize money, and I'll bet there were 85 entries in two days...

New people need to be told, up front, that the rewards are family, friends, and fun...

[spn#43]

I’ sorry Mr. Hill but I completely disagree with you, and my feeling is that thinking like that is a main reason for our situation today.
1) You are comparing Car collectors show with a Boat race? …………..?
2) Bakersfield race was “local regional” race and like I stated before regional local club races are what they are (just a gathering), and I support local racing every time I can and don’t expect anything in return, but let’s not confuse regional race with nationals or even worst with a series. With right people and support, regional race can grow to a divisional, from there to a national and even maybe to a series, I think it’s just natural to look forward just like in any business and to try to improve on whatever you have. Imagine if people were satisfied with a Ford Model – T……where would car industry be today….in the same place boat racing is….NOWERE!!!
Thankfully Champ Boat people are trying to improve every year and so far they succeeded, and every year was better than previous. Way to go Wayne, Pat and the rest of the crew. Looking forward to 2006 racing season.
I’m sorry but I’d rather drive in Ferrari Enzo than Model – T in this day of age when everything is one big billboard and everybody is cashing in on advertising except boat racing, promote; promote and promote try to sell what you got and it can just get better.
Just one more thing, “billboards”……where are they in boat racing , you know how many times I get in a town that’s hosting a race and I stop to ask locals for directions to a race site and they look at me like What race?????, nobody knows……HELLOOO!!!!
Here in South Florida NASCAR race is in November, right after the race they post billboards all over in 50 miles radius on every major highway for next year race!!!!!!, and it’s not like they need any advertising. We need business people to run boat racing like NASCAR has.
I can go on forever but looks like I’m fighting already lost battle, if I wanted a Hobby I would collect stamps.

I hope I didn’t offend anyone, with all due respect,
SPN Motorsports

[Miss BK]

Well, the point I was trying to make is that "Friends and Family" is not working anymore. Just look at the boat counts.

On any given weekend, I'll have a list of 30+ things that my family can do. All of which promise "Friends, Family and Fun". As a family, we have to choose which activity will be the best value.

And even though they are 3rd generation of a boat racing family, my kids never pick "boat racing" as the activity they want to participate. When they go to a race, they don't see much that really tickles their fancy. I tried to introduce them to friends ----their first 'buddies' were Dustin Hoffman, Cody Foster, Dylan Anderson......now none of those kids come to the races anymore. :(

Kids these days have all kinds of weekend events: Baseball, Boy Scouts, Soccer lessons, Frisbee golf, Steam engine excursions, Zoos, Science Museums, playlands, Chuck-E-Cheese, Public pool, Travelling soccer teams, Scout-O-Rama's, summer camp, trips to grandma's house, etc.



You don't have to promise fame and fortune to attract new people. You just have to promise them "something" that they can't get anywhere else.

The most successful boat racing I've ever seen was in Valleyfield Quebec. They were successful in all aspects - but one. They allowed one boat to dominate for too long and that killed their premier class. (Gran Prix Hydro).

Even the lady at the hotel desk knew the story of this one boat and how he was killing the sport (Reminded me a LOT of the Miss Bud story).

Racers want a chance to win.

But all the other needs were satisfied: Excellent fast-paced program, quality officiating, PRESTIGE, giant trophies, real money awards, Grandstands that went down an entire straightaway, vendors that sold everything from leather purses and shoes to fortune tellers.

There was a kids area with about 10 different moon walks, where you paid $10 for an arm band, and the kids could play as long as they wanted.

The fans paid a pretty good clip, but they PACKED those grandstands and they were never forgotten -- if there was any downtime at all, a MasterCraft ski boat with a man shooting wadded up T-shirts through a bazooka gun, aimed it at the fans that made the most noise!

At one point, the PA system played "YMCA" and had thousands of people standing in the bleachers, singing while making the "Y" "M" "C" "A" with their arms. (The sst-120's were launching right at that moment and thought the crowd was going wild over them! LOL).

I was in the grandstands, and we were shoulder-to-shoulder with the people who all had their own favorite driver. They had so much pre-race publicity that everyone already knew who was going to be racing. There was not a single place left to sit. It reminded me of the prestigous days of the Havasu World Outboard Championships when the prize money drew all kinds of celebrities and racers from across the globe.

They even had a local TV soap celebrity sky-dive into the water. The fans went ballistic!

This was not a "boat race", it was a magical event.

I'm afraid that if those same Valleyfield fans came to one of our boat races, I'm quite sure they'd be bored to tears. We need to get creative like they have.

[spn#43]

Well, the point I was trying to make is that "Friends and Family" is not working anymore. Just look at the boat counts.

On any given weekend, I'll have a list of 30+ things that my family can do. All of which promise "Friends, Family and Fun". As a family, we have to choose which activity will be the best value.

And even though they are 3rd generation of a boat racing family, my kids never pick "boat racing" as the activity they want to participate. When they go to a race, they don't see much that really tickles their fancy. I tried to introduce them to friends ----their first 'buddies' were Dustin Hoffman, Cody Foster, Dylan Anderson......now none of those kids come to the races anymore. :(

Kids these days have all kinds of weekend events: Baseball, Boy Scouts, Soccer lessons, Frisbee golf, Steam engine excursions, Zoos, Science Museums, playlands, Chuck-E-Cheese, Public pool, Travelling soccer teams, Scout-O-Rama's, summer camp, trips to grandma's house, etc.



You don't have to promise fame and fortune to attract new people. You just have to promise them "something" that they can't get anywhere else.

The most successful boat racing I've ever seen was in Valleyfield Quebec. They were successful in all aspects - but one. They allowed one boat to dominate for too long and that killed their premier class. (Gran Prix Hydro).

Even the lady at the hotel desk knew the story of this one boat and how he was killing the sport (Reminded me a LOT of the Miss Bud story).

Racers want a chance to win.

But all the other needs were satisfied: Excellent fast-paced program, quality officiating, PRESTIGE, giant trophies, real money awards, Grandstands that went down an entire straightaway, vendors that sold everything from leather purses and shoes to fortune tellers.

There was a kids area with about 10 different moon walks, where you paid $10 for an arm band, and the kids could play as long as they wanted.

The fans paid a pretty good clip, but they PACKED those grandstands and they were never forgotten -- if there was any downtime at all, a MasterCraft ski boat with a man shooting wadded up T-shirts through a bazooka gun, aimed it at the fans that made the most noise!

At one point, the PA system played "YMCA" and had thousands of people standing in the bleachers, singing while making the "Y" "M" "C" "A" with their arms. (The sst-120's were launching right at that moment and thought the crowd was going wild over them! LOL).

I was in the grandstands, and we were shoulder-to-shoulder with the people who all had their own favorite driver. They had so much pre-race publicity that everyone already knew who was going to be racing. There was not a single place left to sit. It reminded me of the prestigous days of the Havasu World Outboard Championships when the prize money drew all kinds of celebrities and racers from across the globe.

They even had a local TV soap celebrity sky-dive into the water. The fans went ballistic!

This was not a "boat race", it was a magical event.

I'm afraid that if those same Valleyfield fans came to one of our boat races, I'm quite sure they'd be bored to tears. We need to get creative like they have.

Right on Val!!!!!
We need people like you to run the show!
Why don’t you get involved more? Please for boat racing sake!
If I ever decide to put on the Race you’ll be first on my list to coordinate everything.
:) :)

[B VALACHOVIC]

It is SUPER DIRT week this week in Syracuse New York . It is not a Nascar event.They broke from Nascar years ago . This is the largest race that there is drawing The Modified Dirt racers from all the US and CANADA. A few are Profesional racers The majority are what we are calling here hobbiests. If you complete the 200 lapper main event you are crowned Champion and receive the $50,000.00 + contingingy grand prize and considered the best there is doing this type of racing . This is basicaly the National Championships for this. And no when you run every week they do not pay that much but there are enough larger paying events throughout the season to keep everyone interested.
I really had reservations about writing any of this but i have to say that i have been around the block and if you have something that isn't really working to everyones expectations Start looking around and see what the heck everyone else is doing. I see everyone saying that we have a sport to save so i will put my two cents in here.

[spn#43]

:) :) :)

My point exactly!!!!
Look around in other successful forms of racing, and try to figure out where lays the problem, what are you doing wrong, how they get their support, and who is running their shows. Most important of all is to try to see how they are thinking regarding the future of their sport like business with pleasure (doing what you love to do and getting paid) or like Hobby just in free time.
Hobby = SELF DESTRUCION

[mercguy]

:) :) :)

My point exactly!!!!
Look around in other successful forms of racing, and try to figure out where lays the problem, what are you doing wrong, how they get their support, and who is running their shows. Most important of all is to try to see how they are thinking regarding the future of their sport like business with pleasure (doing what you love to do and getting paid) or like Hobby just in free time.
Hobby = SELF DESTRUCION


"Hobby = SELF DESTRUCION"

what is the largest class in outboard racing today? It is not because of the ability to win money! Boat racing, as Ron has stated, is a "family sport". Most race for "the fun of it" and the prestige of earning a National Championship title, not to earn a pay check. Yes, I imagine a payout is AWESOME and welcomed, but not why racers race. It is the thrill and challenge to beat others on the race course and the feeling you get, when you are a National Champion! Another reason boat racing has suffered is due to lots of race courses being lost, either due to "tree huggers", environmetal concerns, or RICH home owners that now have homes built near our race courses (which the race course existed LONG before the homes were ever thought of being built. Those are the California issues and will continue to migrate towards the east coast. If you are only racing for the money, then I GUARANTEE you will NEVER will a National Championship.

[mercguy]

:) :) :)

My point exactly!!!!
Look around in other successful forms of racing, and try to figure out where lays the problem, what are you doing wrong, how they get their support, and who is running their shows. Most important of all is to try to see how they are thinking regarding the future of their sport like business with pleasure (doing what you love to do and getting paid) or like Hobby just in free time.
Hobby = SELF DESTRUCION

also, how do you think Eric Simon (a previous sponsor of yours) got interested in boat racing? From me and the stock hydros...........don't believe me, ask him and see what he used to have hangin in his old shop out here in Alpine, Ca.........yes, we are friends....

[Miss BK]

It is the thrill and challenge to beat others on the race course and the feeling you get, when you are a National Champion!

Yes, that is true. And that's why my son loves Pinewood Derby too. He is very competitive and seems to always make the top 4 that go to District.

Plus - the competition is even more intense --- he races against 62 other kids and never has to leave town!

There are DOZENS of "competitions" out there, where you can race against others just for the pure enjoyment. These also let you feel that same sense of competition, without ever expecting any monetary reward, and without having to invest $5,000-$50,000.

As it is now, our sport expects everyone to continually pump money in and be satisfied with the pure competition and friendships they make. Some of my long time friends will continue to race til they die, as their parents did, whether there are any prizes or not. But a VERY LARGE number of them have already quit because they aren't seeing much of a return for the investments they are making. And our sport is only going to get more and more expensive over the next few years.

We must first acknowledge these problems, and then work to fix them to reverse the trend of declining numbers. One way to promote growth is to promise racers a real reward for winning.

[Ron Hill]

Well, look at the pictures from Bakersfield...http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1592
from what I heard Kankakee only had 14 Champboats.... Bakersfield had almost that many Cracker Boxes.....The average Cracker Box is like a CLASSIC CAR....most sport $35,000 motors....There ain't a Cracker Box owner that races for prize money.....They are PROUD OWNERS OF CRACKER BOXES...

There were close to 30 Vee Drive Boats at Bakersfield...All could be considered "CLASSIC" boats.....average price of those 30 boats were around $40,000.... Our local race had more expensive equipment than the OPC Nationals, yet you feel you needed prize money...

Val, Family and Frineds were EVERYWHERE at Bakersfield...In fact, I had way too many friends give me drinks...Saturday night...Especailly Ted Kolby's lady friend....I'm "Ducking" her at Parker...

We're running two boats at Parker, if we get our $300 entry fee (per boat) back, we'll be as happy as pigs in S^&T!!!

I gave out $100 worth of BRF T-Shirts...I think Bakersfiled was a HUGE success, without spectators...(There were many more than 50...but not 50, 000)...

I disagree with you...we have a whole generation of boat racers that think the sport is supposed to work for them...

When is the last time you set up the course? Worked as a turn judge? Wrote a press release to you local paper??? Drove the patrol boat? Donated time to APBA??? Or AOF???

BK thinks of herself as an outsider at the races now????........but, I'll bet if she was in the pits at Bakerfield last weekend....all she'd have to do was look at the mountains...she'd have seen Ted May, her brother, my dad....the whole family was there!!!! Better than the OLD DAYS!!!! There were friends, everywhere!!!!!

[spn#43]

"Hobby = SELF DESTRUCION"

what is the largest class in outboard racing today? It is not because of the ability to win money! Boat racing, as Ron has stated, is a "family sport". Most race for "the fun of it" and the prestige of earning a National Championship title, not to earn a pay check. Yes, I imagine a payout is AWESOME and welcomed, but not why racers race. It is the thrill and challenge to beat others on the race course and the feeling you get, when you are a National Champion! Another reason boat racing has suffered is due to lots of race courses being lost, either due to "tree huggers", environmetal concerns, or RICH home owners that now have homes built near our race courses (which the race course existed LONG before the homes were ever thought of being built. Those are the California issues and will continue to migrate towards the east coast. If you are only racing for the money, then I GUARANTEE you will NEVER will a National Championship.

First read my posts completely before you make a statement, at no point I ever said that I race because of money.
Second; Will I ever get national or any other title or not, only time will tell, but I can tell you one thing, with thinking like that you will never move forward in your racing carrier because you are happy where you are and that’s where you will stay.
If that’s working for you, fine, more power to you, but please……..…have fun at your hobby.

[B VALACHOVIC]

This Parker race is the start of something good. Everyone should go that can. I will myself bring a boat next season and be a competitor in this event. I see everyone working on the thing relentlesly. Usually when that much effort is placed in something it works.
This site works also. It is more of a racing site and will eventually get things accomplished for the racing aspect also. Bob

[spn#43]

also, how do you think Eric Simon (a previous sponsor of yours) got interested in boat racing? From me and the stock hydros...........don't believe me, ask him and see what he used to have hangin in his old shop out here in Alpine, Ca.........yes, we are friends....

Was it a little strange to you that Simon was my sponsor and we live 3,000 miles apart, and not yours next door neighbor?
Was it because he knew that you are happy where you at, and racing was just a hobby to you? Or was it because last year at San Diego race we had little conversation in the pits and he asked me about my views on racing. Or maybe combination of both.
;)

[Ron Hill]

I drove a 17 Foot Glasstron and two Evinrude Fishing motors to a Havasu Classic win when Havasu was promoting Land Sales, not boat races....


Champboat racing has made ONE change since IOGP DAYS...2.5 liter from 2 liter...and that was Garbrecht's idea to save money and that failed...

On, after PROP TOUR went away, so did ESPN 2.....Same bat as I drove in 1978...just have capsules... Classic Cars are 25 years old!!1 Tunnel boats have a billboard on the side, but if they don't race...no on know who they are IE: NO CHAMPBOATS AT SAN DIEGO...

But the 400,000 fans didn't seem to notice...

[TABARARACING]

Hello everyone, Before we even consider talking about the Nationals for this season, why don't we look at the situation the Kankakee Regatta was in months prior. The race lost its biggest sponsors before the event.
I turned on the Kiss FM in Kankakee while passing through and I heard about how much trouble they were in for funding. Going into the event, I recieved an email from Mike W and from others telling us just how bad things were financially for the Kankakee Race. They lost Englewood Electric and the Chip Company from what I was told.
In the email from Mike W, he asked that people come to participate in the National Championships and for the competition. Thats why my team went. I was fortunate enough to win a National Championship while down in there in the Formula 150 class. My prize money was around 400.00.
A few years back in the Sport C class, I took home a check for over 1,500.00. I certainly don't race for the money. Everyone on this board knows, we will not make money, or break even the way things currently are.
Unfortantly, events have phases, and Kankakee was going through one. ChampBoat stepped up big time and helped out this event with big boat counts. It's safe to say that funding will be back to Kankakee if boat counts remain high.
If I could only hit one race a year, it would be Kankakee, with or without prizes. The Nationals should be a place where all the series and local racers go and race. Yes this makes for LONG days of racing and work for the officials and volunteers, but it's what we all should work towards winning all season long.
Congratulations to the other National Champions this season, and I just want to say I had a really good time in SST 120 and Formula 150.

Brian Tabara

[Miss BK]

Right on Val!!!!!
We need people like you to run the show!
Why don’t you get involved more? Please for boat racing sake!
If I ever decide to put on the Race you’ll be first on my list to coordinate everything.
:) :)

Hi Page,

About 5 years ago I was "Promotions Director" of an SST-120 series, but unfortunately I really didn't have the skills or experience to know just how to "promote" boat racing at that time. I had been out of the loop for a decade and was just starting to get reaquainted when the series was absorbed into ChampBoat, and my position went away.

Since that time I've met a number of people involved in sports promotions and marketing, and have learned quit a bit about what works and what doesn't. (P.S. A successful person knows that failure is just another way to learn).

Just in the past few years this area has become extremely competitive, but mostly with other racing sports. Boat racing in general resists using these tools to achieve full potential. That's because most of the people involved are volunteers who have a background in racing for the fun of it, not in promoting growth.

But there are exceptions....


Here's one:

I had the fortune of meeting a lady who had the "gift" of marketing and promoting boat racing (and it really does take someone with a gift to do it right). Her name is Michelle May-Schmidt. She was always working on new ideas for Offshore, and she looked closely at what the participants valued; recognition, status and pride - and fun.

She also saw that they enjoyed the after race functions nearly as much as the racing. But how do you work in all those things AND bring in sponsorships?

She began working with local high-class restaurants --- each night of the race weekend, she contracted with a local restaurant to host a "DRIVER PARTY". The race club would allow the restaraunt to first host a "MEET THE DRIVER" event, in exchange for some sort of return (anything from feeding the teams to cash sponsorships).

After the "MEET THE DRIVER" event, where everyone learns all about the boats/teams/drivers and gets a souvenir poster etc, then the race teams & sponsors would go off to attend the private "Driver" party in their honor -- where they would be treated like stars and rub elbows with the "rich" people.

People LOVE to hang out with royalty (wealthy folk). More about how this is being used by Champboat in a minute...

At just about every Offshore event you could find a race party on Wednesday night....Thursday night....Friday night.....Saturday night......and these places would be PACKED with fans and teams.

Best of all - it was self-supporting. The racing club would not have to pay a dime for any of it. It was a genius idea!

Because a few boats would be staged in the restaurant parking lot during the event, locals would want to stop and check them out. (More $$$ for the business).

Eventually, more and more restuarants wanted to host a party.

Another thing she did was have "MEDIA" events. About a month before the race, she would send out an invitation to all the media outlets: TV, Newspaper, local magazines, guides etc. She would offer the first 15 responders a chance to climb around inside the cockpit of a race boat and maybe even go for a ride on the day before the race. She gave them a deadline: RESPOND WITHIN 10 DAYS.

Now, I have no way of knowing how many reporters responded to her invitation. But one thing she didn't do: She didn't beg for media attention or act like boat racing was just a hobby....She had the attitude that boat racing was TOO POPULAR, and that TOO MANY reporters were going to respond to her request and made them aware that they better e-mail TODAY or "THEY" would lose out on something really good!

That's the difference between those who make it work and those who say it can't work. You've gotta have spunk and determination and convince people that your sport is AWESOME. Take risks and NEVER be afraid of failure.

But when Offshore changed hands, the old way of thinking came back. They decided that they didn't need a paid marketing person and they let Michelle go. :(

This isn't the first time that boat racers have done away with paid, professional marketers. We've existed with volunteers for so long that we now resent having professionals come into our program. We want everyone to sell cheap simply because we all charge nothing. But without a paid strategist who works full time on promoting what we love most, our sport will only continue to fade.

As much as I wish we could continue to enjoy this as something we do just for the love of the sport, we do need to face the facts: There just aren't that many people who do things for free these days. That's because there are too many other opportunites, that produce the same good cheer, where your effort WILL get you a reward and don't have to invest nearly as much money.

People who REALLY love this sport will be brainstorming and coming up with ways to attract fresh, new people.....promising some sort of benefit that no other sport can offer them. The people who are best at this are professional marketers, but they don't work for free. We need to get over that stigma and start being proactive. All the other sectors are getting on board - we can't afford to miss the boat.

[Miss BK]

About 3 years ago, I watched a TV program about a guy known as "The Dream Weaver". What he does - for a price - is provide dreams for rich people. Whatever their desire - he gets it for them. But it's not cheap.

I was thinking "HEY! How can we mix BOAT RACING with this company??!"

Years went by and I didn't think anything more until I saw a logo on the UIM F1 website..... And clicked on the Blue Fish. Sure enough---- it was the same guy. SOMEONE had the same thinking I did, and now boat racing could be included in some rich guys "dream".

Let's say a man owns one of the most expensive watch companies in the world -- but he has always wanted to go for a ride in an F1 tunnel boat.
Trade a watch for a boat ride!

What if Sherwin-Williams wants to contract with a big client from China who loves watersports? Bring him to a race where he is treated like royalty, and smother him in luxury inside the air conditioned Blue Fish truck.

(NASCAR teams let sponsors bring clients to their trackside viewing rooms all the time)

I'm not sure how many people here know about Carlos Kuri's family (Former Champboat driver). His uncle is Carlos Slim, the richest man in Latin America. Carlos Kuri came to Formula One when it was still owned by Garbrecht and was being shown on ESPN2.

When Carlos came to the races, he brought his own ESPN camera crew,so they could film in Spanish. When he returned to Mexico after a race, he would have Press Conferences set up with national TV to go over his race exploits. That's how IMPORTANT this was to Mexico! Carlos was ROYALTY.

There are other "Royal" families in Champboat racing too -- The Seebolds, The Bowdens, the Lambs, the Wendt brothers, et al. These people bring fun where ever they go, and are seen as boat racing's own celebrities. Everyone loves rubbing elbows with them, being at parties with them, and they have all the COOLEST stuff. That same royalty follows him to all the events. I'm sure being admired by so many is one PERK that keeps them coming back.

But some of our "royals" ARE leaving. Why?? Is the magic wearing off??? Once we lose that "Royalty" from our sport, we will be losing too much. We need to ADD MORE Royalty to our sport, keeping our standards HIGH, and we do that by offering something they can't get anywhere else. Respect, admiration, prestige, sponsor opportunities, publicity, REAL PRIZES, great memories!!!!!

Blue Fish is a VERY good start! :D

[B VALACHOVIC]

I see Terry Rinker has acumulated 4,325 points for the season.He is absolutlely the Best that there is in Champ Series Tunnel Boat Racing for this season. How much are the points worth nowdays.

[Miss BK]

Hi-point championship in a prestigious series that provides publicity and recognition = Healthy sponsorships.



I hear Terry's sponsorship is secure for at least 3 more years, even tho the Rinker family doesn't own "RINKER BOATS" anymore. I happen to know one of the new owners of Rinker Boats personally, and I know that he's into F1 cars. (They fly to Monaco for the race every year).

To ensure Terry has sponsorship for many more years, we need to get the new owners of Rinker Boats to come to Champboat races so we can wine and dine them. And even better - invite them to utilize the BlueFish truck to wine and dine their "own" clients - maybe even take them for a 2-seater ride!

No doubt, there are even more possibilities that haven't even been thought of yet. Transforming what we have already into something others want makes the word "sponsorship" have even more value than we ever dreamed. Keep thinking BIG!

[Miss BK]

Here's how UIM F1 uses BlueFish:


http://www.f1boat.com/05/como/como_gallerybluefish_05.html

[B VALACHOVIC]

I see Terry Rinker the best in the entire world in Champboat racing in Powerboat Magazine this month. ONE of his SPONSORS that is on the OPC boat took out a high dollar ad to promote their product with TERRY'S boat in the background.

[Miss BK]

Yes, they appear to like Terry and the entire Blackhawk Racing team. They have even dedicated a portion of their corporate website to him. ;)

http://www.amsoil.com/rinker

[TabaraRacing12]

First off anyone who knows Page knows what he loves to do. That is race boats. I got to meet up with him at the nationals this year and we finally got to put faces to screen names. Nobody can first claim that he is racing for money or is about making money. Look at what he said. He got a very small check for a very BIG class of boat. Now why would he come out and say something like this now about it? Well obviously the perception was they thought they would be getting a better check for Mod U. We all love this sport and race boats because of that, BUT BUT BUT, he is not out of line to say that was BS that he got that small of a check. He got promised local sponsor money and didnt get that. Does he have a place to be mad?? Ask yourself if you would be pissed, yea you would be! He is not trying to make money, but the thing is if you have 30-50,000 tied up into a champ rig why would you even race for anything under 20 or 30,000 dollar prize package. You have to get something in return to HELP with the costs. By no means is he saying I am pissed cause I didnt make money, he is saying it would be nice to get some costs helped out. Boat racing in OPC is expensive, doesnt matter which class you go to you are going to be spending big $$$$ to win. What this sport needs is more guys like Page and less like many others invovled in this sport. Regarding his thoughts on the nationals. The OPC Nationals was at one time the most prestegious victory/win of any racer. In todays boat racing world is it really? Or is it your cash cow on a big point race. Series championships are now more prestigious than a national championship. What Page is saying, and this is what I get from it is he believes the Nationals is and SHOULD be the most prestigious event in OPC. Most points/money/ the best of the best should be there to race. Now I realize they had sponsor problems this year, but if they cannot get those sponsors back and regain that once prestigious title of an OPC National championship, isnt it just another race now with lots of points? The problem with OPC is $$$$ and more $$$$ and more $$$$$. Not enough parts, monopolies built on a sport, and simple poltics and you find us where we are at today. You can disagree with it, but I really dont care, we all know what it is like, but nobody ever really comes out and says it. The reason why OPC/ Champ etc has worked out are the guys like Page who have no chance of winning against the BIG TEAMS in CHAMP, yet he comes and races cause he loves it. What is wrong with boat racing?? You guys all say it hobby hobby hobby, well to move boat racing in with the way car series racing has taken off we need to take a professional approach not a hobby aproach. Boat racing will never be like the good ole days, but is that a bad thing? No, times change, racing changes, we just need people to be open to the new ideas. This motor rule champ is doing, do i agree with it, well no, BUT its worth a shot right! Whats the worse that happens, it fails?

steve

[TabaraRacing12]

Val

I sure hope amsoil does stay in the sport as a sponsor. Before they had a part in the Prop Tour series, I went to them for sponsorship for our team, actually I am the one who introduced their race director/race marketing director to boat racing. I introduced them to series racing and at the time it was PROP. Unfornuately they had exhausted all there funds for sponsorship that year :rolleyes: , but within 4-6 months of myself contacting them they were the official oil of PROP. LOL, I got stickers and an application to be an amsoil dealer, BUT it is good to see that even though we didnt get sponsored by them that they found a team in the sport and have supported them and the racing series.

Steve

[Miss BK]

I notice in Bay City that there is an entire AMSOIL display next to Terry's rig. I don't know if Terry sets that up or if Amsoil sends a rep to set it up. But it's a pretty good idea, either way.

Also, did you know that AMSOIL was Mike Seebold's sponsor back in the late 1970's? :D

[TabaraRacing12]

LOL, I did not know that. When I went to them they were clueless at the time, atleast the existing racing director at the time was. I always hate explaining how they are kinda like champ/f1 cars on water. Upper midwest boat racing isnt quite the premier sport, although most people can relate to stock outboard just not OPC/tunnel boats.

[Miss BK]

I remember the AMSOIL thing because Mike came to Havasu without a score-keeper and my sister-in-law volunteered me! We were there with a friend and scoring him in the Mod-VP class which was at a different time - so I got to do double-duty that weekend. A guy on Mike's team told me that he pays his scorekeepers $1,000 if he wins. I got all excited, then learned later that he was just joking...LOL

So I watched that #286 AMSOIL boat go round the Havasu course for a solid 3 hours, never getting to leave my seat, and marking down each time he went by, which was about every 2 minutes. After scoring hours on end like that, you don't ever forget what the boat looks like. ;)

I also went to art school in 1981, and one of my projects was painting
a multi-colored object. I chose Mike's blue/red/orange/yellow Amsoil boat - I ALWAYS loved that paint scheme.

Here's Mike in his AMSOIL uniform from around that time frame:

http://212.125.209.209/publisher/galleribase/132.jpg

[spn#43]

Our local race had more expensive equipment than the OPC Nationals, yet you feel you needed prize money...

Shame on me.:o :( :confused:



I disagree with you...we have a whole generation of boat racers that think the sport is supposed to work for them...

Yup, it’s called professionalism, you pay them and they work for you.;)


When is the last time you set up the course? Worked as a turn judge? Wrote a press release to you local paper??? Drove the patrol boat? Donated time to APBA??? Or AOF???

Never, guilty as charged.:o
What is the sentence?

[spn#43]

NO CHAMPBOATS AT SAN DIEGO...

But the 400,000 fans didn't seem to notice...

I actually heard that there was more like 40.000.000 fans.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Tried uploading this a half dozen times a few days ago and each time I did the satellite kicked me off BRF. See if it works today/

[RichardKCMo]

Heck, we do that for all the girls in novice class here in the midwest.;)
I know it's the shoes.
RichardKCMo

[RichardKCMo]

Don( Swamp Rat) Garlits said it best , they pay me to unlode that thang.
RichardF

[Master Oil Racing Team]

This is an excerpt from the book THIS SPORTING LIFE, THAT SPORTING DEATH by John Kiely 1973.

"Billy Seebold, he just stands there. Marshall Grant has the boats that Billy drives. 'So she finally comes up,' Grant is talking, 'and she says to me, Well, I've been watching and it looks to me like this Billy Seebold doesn't do anything but drive!' And I said, 'Lady, if he does it right, that's enough.'"

[Miss BK]

I remember the AMSOIL thing because Mike came to Havasu without a scorekeeper and my sister-in-law volunteered me! We were there with a friend and scoring him in the Mod-VP class which was at a different time - so I got to do double-duty that weekend. A guy on Mike's team told me that he pays his scorekeepers $1,000 if he wins. I got all excited, then learned later that he was just joking...LOL

So I watched that #286 AMSOIL boat go round the Havasu course for a solid 3 hours, never getting to leave my seat, and marking down each time he went by, which was about every 2 minutes. After scoring hours on end like that, you don't ever forget what the boat looks like. ;)


I didn't think I had any pictures from that weekend (Havasu 1979) but I was wrong. Mike Seebold was in 1st place the first day but blew his motor just before the end of day #1. At that time, changing powerheads was not allowed, and you had to finish with the same powerhead you started with.

So his crew said they could take out one piston, and he could try running on 5. That evening, Mike still wasn't sure if he wanted to run like that....

So the next morning I showed up in the scorer's stands anyway, taking my spot back in the #1 position, ready to keep score for 1st place Mike Seebold. Remember, at this point, I'm still thinking that he gives his scorer's $1,000 when he wins! LOL So I start praying that he'll be back.

The day before, the lady sitting in the seat ahead of me was Mildred Sherrer. But her husband Dick's boat had caught on fire right in front us - so that put Mike in 1st place. If I'm not mistaken, I think Dick had just opted to run on 5 cylinders too, and that may have been the cause of the fire.

But as the boats continue launching that brisk morning, I still don't see #286 - but I'm still hopeful. I finally ask Molly Ballou (Chief Scorer) if she knows if #286 has scratched. She breaks the bad news to me -- Mike Seebold has withdrawn from the race. :(

I was just a gullible 18-year-old at that time. I later find out that the "$1,000" thing that 'Ken' told me was just a joke. At least I think it was ???

I've always wondered who that guy 'Ken' was in Mike's crew, who told me this? Boat racers are such jokesters.....We'll have to start a thread called "Practical jokes, boat racing style"
:D

[Ron Hill]

Well, you read all my posts, but you didn't UNDERSTAND THEM....


I'll TRY AGAIN....Like I say, "IF at first you don't succeed, try, try a gun.."

I feel I started this web site, along with Ted March because we felt the WORLD needed a Boat race Encyclopedia....

As is, along with others, start wrting the history of Boat Racing, we see that many things have changed...and in most OLD TIMERS EYES, the changes have been for the WORST....

One reason NASCAR became popular was the fact that the drivers LOVED THEIR FANS...Rich Petty would sign autographs as long as people stood in line. They would slos take sponsor moey from anyone who would give them a dime....Many an early NASCAR had 50 small sponsors name on the car....but the other thing that NASCAR HAD and HAS is a SHOW...........

AND as much of a boat race lover that I AM and will continue to be......Their ain't one boat race, that I've seen, that will get people to pay to watch, except the Unlimiteds and DRAGS.....and LIKE IT OR NOT that is the truth.........The rest of the LCASSES are SIDE SHOWS.

They DRaGS had 47,000 PAID ON sATURDAY, AND 35,000 ON sUNDAY, IN Oklahoma...With that income, you can pay some prize money. My attorney, Donald P. Ermshar raced in Oklahoma, after winning in Augusta, Georgia....He blew a $65,000 motor in Oklahoma... (That is the price of 6 Formula One S-3000 Powerheads)....What kind of prize money could this 160 mPH boat win to pay for a $65,000 motor????

Don Ermshar, like most Drag Racers are SPORTSMEN!!!! He loves those Blown Alcohol Motors and those DAMn Flat bottoms....(He runs a capsule becasue of me...I said I was going to take my business somewhere else, if he didn't get a capsule)...

Champboat/Formula One needs some changes....Period!!! 14 boat final at the Nationals, and in 40 laps no one passed anyone???? In horse races, they call it a "BOAT RACE" when it is boring!!!

Sealed motors for 2006???? What is that going to do??? A format chage is needed.... Rev limiters need to be tossed, restrcitor plates need to be added...


Drivers should be required to work patrol boats, and on the judges stand, at least an hour a day...


You'ver never worked at a race, you said....Well, we paid, $600 entry fee, for two boats, had our friends help patrol the race, brought three new drivers to the races....

With no minor leagues, there is no big leagues...

Greg Foster, Jason Campbell and Todd Bowden all came from a Mod VP background (Minor Leagues)....

We didn't expect anything back from Parker...we went as family...We went for FAMILY, FRIENDS AND FUN!!!!! That is waht got boat racing somewhere...Guys DEMANDING money when their isn't money IS ONE MAJOR PROBLEM with the sport...

Start out by making 100 pictures of your boat and giving them away to local business...and tell them, you'll put their name on your boat....for FREE...maybe, next year, one of those 100 will help you.....with sponsorship....

Why would I want to sponsor you??? My props get 6,000 view a month on E-bay, for free!!!! If I sponored you, what would I get??? Would youtell me I SHOULD GIVE YOU MORE MONEY???? If you won, my props would not see one prop sale increase......and they way Formula One is, winning for the new guy isn't POSSIBLE...You can't even win a heat under the current plan!!!

[Miss BK]

AND as much of a boat race lover that I AM and will continue to be......Their ain't one boat race, that I've seen, that will get people to pay to watch, except the Unlimiteds and DRAGS.....and LIKE IT OR NOT that is the truth.........The rest of the CLASSES are SIDE SHOWS.

There are a LOT of other sports who claim the same thing. But the problem wasn't with their vehicles, it was with their own ability to produce an exciting program. The KEY is in the program.

Page has one thing that a lot of other racers don't: He's seen it work, and knows that it can work with the right tools. He's seen guys in the same class make MONEY. So to hear people say he HAS to race for free must be extremely frustrating for him. Because he KNOWS that is not true.

Ever wonder why Scott Gillman races overseas with UIM F1? Probably because he found people who don't say "It can't be done".

At first glance, why would anyone think that a TWO BOAT drag race is exciting? Of all the boat racing I've seen, DRAGS (cars and boats) have the most down time of all motorsports. So why does this attract so many people??? The key is in THE PROGRAM.

In Valleyfield they have never had Unlimiteds or Drags to wow the crowd, but they have permanent grandstands to hold 100,000+ people and a jugdes tower to die for. Their main concern is comfort for the fans - and one main problem boat racing has is proper seating where you can see the entire course. These big grandstands eliminate that problem. And the PA system is loud enough to keep all the fans informed.

Since it's just "side show" inboards, then why do thousands flock to this venue every year? Because they utilize EVENT EXPERTS who know how to put on a show and create a wide-scale program that everyone can enjoy.

It will cost $35 (CAN) for a 3-day pass. (That's about $28 US)



http://www.regates.ca/index.php?lang=en


These people are not watching Drags or Unlimiteds. The classes that run are all inboard
1.5 liter
2.5 liter
5 liter
Can-Am
GNH
JSS
UL
http://www.regates.ca/images/photos/07.jpg

[Miss BK]

Here is a shot of the judges tower at Valleyfield -- the flags and flares were visible to everyone in the grandstands. The clock is just at the end of that runway. Just behind the grandstands are food and clothing vendors, arcade games and a giant children's playland. And best of all -- real washrooms with running water! ;)

Look at the people ---- the announcer has them so excited about this heat that they can't even sit down!

Each night the same area hosts a major concert and fireworks display. The organizers think of everything, and leave out no one. And that's why they have such a huge success rate.

This coming year they are going to try and bring the Unlimiteds, but the course is quite narrow so they are going to run "two boat" shoot-outs. Normally, this would spelll "BORING" but I'm sure these people will know how to make it super exciting. All it takes is some imagination and thinking "out of the box".

http://www.regates.ca/images/photos/34.jpg

[Miss BK]

This shows the shot of the clock. Note there are TWO of them for even better viewing.

The area to the left was General admission ($35 for 3 days or $20 for one day) but the right side was the reserved VIP seating, mostly for the sponsors. On the weekend we were there, the VIP guests were treated to free Molsen's (and food too, I think), and you were served by waitresses, so you never had to leave your seat. They did sell VIP passes, but don't recall what the price was.

To get into the pits, you had to pay $20 extra.

Once again, these boats are not what we commonly know as the premier classes. But in the right atmosphere, they can certainly "wow" the fans just as strong as the top classes can.

The key is all in the presentation.

http://www.regates.ca/images/photos/26.jpg

[spn#43]

Ron,
This web site is a great thing for a boat racing and I wanna thank you for that, other than that we are on completely opposite sides, you don’t agree on anything I say and I sure don’t agree on ANY of your points, not one. You might not like this, but you guys, (not you personally but in general), steered boat racing in hobby direction for so many years and got us nowhere so I just think it’s time for a change, something new, with new people and new philosophy, let’s try, we got nothing to lose, look what are they doing in Japan boat racing is a BIG business there, just ask “tacobellprop” one of our members from Japan. In his own words and I quote (from personal e-mail); “Drivers' average annual income (prize money) is $180,000. Some drivers make over a million bucks a year.”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:
Must be a nice to have a Hobby in Japan, I bet you those drivers are not working as judges and other things you advocate, and even that is not a big deal, if I have to do it I have no problem with that neither, but I just don’t see a point why?
Just something for you to think about, and if you can tell me why is that wrong, they do what they love to do and they make a (good) living that way.
FYI; Champ powerhead it’s not $65.000 but it’s not $10.000ish neither, figure about $15-16.000 plus another $5-6.000 for engine builder since they are so stock, but that’s besides the point, and to say that Champ Boat and any other class other than Unlimited and Drag racing is boring makes me think do you really love boat racing at all.

PS; Nascar was just a example, I’m talking about car racing in general from Go-karts to a Formula-1

[Ron Hill]

Unless you, your kid or friends are racing....Boat racing has never developed a real fan following.

Soccer is boring, but some of those dude make a killing playing it...

Promote Baot Racing any way you can, and I'll back you.....I just feel to make it grow, we all have to be willing to give a hell of a lot more than we can ever expect to take out.... That means, working boat show, car show, writing press release, writing sponsors...helping new comers, help promotoers of races.... You can't sit around and expect the world to come to you......

You can I guess, and that is waht I'm saying is wrong with most of the people that have gotten into boat racing in the last 20 years...They are like welfare people...

[Miss BK]

Years ago, Mel and Stan were playing a game on their lawn, where they rolled a ball to see how close they could come to a set of pins.

Stan said to Mel, "This sport is fun, but it will never have a fan following".

Stan was wrong.

For 2000 years, this sport was simply a game.

But by 1950, someone figured out that the sport could really grow if players didn't have to set their own pins - they could now concentrate on their performance instead. Other people came up with competitions for large prizes. Someone else came up with a way to charge players a fee and make money. Players could rent the equipment if they didn't have their own. Organized competitions sprouted everywhere and an entire industry was born.

The moral of the story --- Bowling didn't gain a fan following until the right person came along with a plan no one in the past could figure out - a way for both players and the organizers to make money.

This country could have had "Croquet Alleys" in every town, but a bowler with a vision got there first. Boat racing needs to find it's own niche too.



How BOWLING became a major sport in America:

The first Mineralite ball was introduced in 1914 by the Brunswick Corporation, and the first commercial installation of a pin setting machine came in 1952, making "pin boys" almost entirely unnecessary. But nothing did more for the popularity of bowling than the first broadcast of "Championship Bowling" by NBC in the 1950’s. Thanks to this show and many others including "Make that Spare", "Bowling for Dollars", and "Celebrity Bowling", bowling was thrust into the American public’s living rooms and hearts alike. The Pro Bowlers tour became hugely popular on ABC Sports Broadcasting after first being televised in 1961.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I like your idea about Pratical Jokes Boat Racer Style. How about starting it up?

[jimsummers]

they had it right but they ran him off. Terry P. IOGP

[Miss BK]

they had it right but they ran him off. Terry P. IOGP


You are so right, Jim. That's another thing boat racers have to get over -- that we can only progress when the guys running the show are making enough to live on. That's when they can devote 100% to our program.

[spn#43]

Ron,
Football (soccer) may be boring to you but fact is that football is a #1 Pro sport in the World and in a same time biggest money maker for players, teams and owners.
A lot of people here say that #1 form of car racing Formula – 1 is boring as well, but than again that’s number one form of any racing, period.
Point made.;)
Looks like we are finally getting somewhere….:eek:
LOL….I may not be always right, but I’m never wrong……LOL:D :D ;) :confused:

PS; what do you make of boat racing in Japan?

[spn#43]

One more thing,
Like in Val’s little story, every sport started originally as a hobby but there was a point in time when someone said: “Let’s make it better” and the rest is a history.
BTW if your prop thing is a hobby too, can I get few props from you free of charge for my hobby?
:) :D ;)

[spn#43]

Sorry it’s me again,:rolleyes:
Since you mentioned Soccer, I just remembered that your son is playing Water Polo, can you believe that Pro players in Europe are actually making really good money in that sport???? :eek:
In every sport there are people who are in it because they want to become Pro players one day, there are Pros, and there are Hobbyist, people who love the game but unfortunately they are not good enough to be Professionals.
My brain is on fire....:D :D :D

[B VALACHOVIC]

Sorry it’s me again,:rolleyes:
Since you mentioned Soccer, I just remembered that your son is playing Water Polo, can you believe that Pro players in Europe are actually making really good money in that sport???? :eek:
In every sport there are people who are in it because they want to become Pro players one day, there are Pros, and there are Hobbyist, people who love the game but unfortunately they are not good enough to be Professionals.
My brain is on fire....:D :D :D
SPN please say to me how much you can win cash money in Champ at a race and do they pay down at a percentage or what is it.
What are the points worth in cash value at the end of the year per point.
How much tow money do you get if you complete everything and make the final, and is this based on actual miles to travel to the race site.
Thank you. Bob

[Mark75H]

In every sport there are people who are in it because they want to become Pro players one day, there are Pros, and there are Hobbyist, people who love the game but unfortunately they are not good enough to be Professionals.

So ... go with the flow instead of against it ... quit your job, sell your house, move to Japan, go to pro driver's school and be a pro ... prove yourself and make the big bucks! :)

[Miss BK]

Thankfully he doesn't have to do that just yet. There are still a few boat racing organizations who are willing to ply their vision here in the US. If only we can just figure out how to end the five year restarts with Formula One/Champ, and learn not attack those with the visions, then boat racing in the USA really can prosper beyond hobby-level, like it has in Japan, Canada and the Emirates.

For those who want to see it, let's start using that Blue Fish truck for sponsor benefit. And PLEASE bring back the Calcutta - that way both fans and drivers can make more $$$$$. :D

[Miss BK]

Mercury Racing usually handles the payouts for Champboat Points. I probably can find that on the Mercury site.

I don't know what Champ pays the regular racers, but here are the details on the Rookie Program:


Champ Boat Series Rookie Program Renewed
Executive Director Wayne Worthy also announced the renewal of the Champ Boat Series Hydro Tec Marine Rookie Program for 2005. The program will offer up to five rookie drivers the opportunity to race in the Champ class without paying membership or entry fees and compete for prize money bonuses.

The top three rookie finishers at each Champ race will receive bonuses of $800, $400 and $300 in addition to winnings paid from the basic prize money schedule. The top-finishing rookies in the series standings will receive special recognition at the end of the season. To qualify for the program and receive all available prizes, rookie drivers must attend all scheduled Champ races.

The program defines a rookie as a driver who has not raced in more than three events in any one Champ Boat Series season.

[B VALACHOVIC]

Thankfully he doesn't have to do that just yet. There are still a few boat racing organizations who are willing to ply their vision here in the US. If only we can just figure out how to end the five year restarts with Formula One/Champ, and learn not attack those with the visions, then boat racing in the USA really can prosper beyond hobby-level, like it has in Japan, Canada and the Emirates.

For those who want to see it, let's start using that Blue Fish truck for sponsor benefit. And PLEASE bring back the Calcutta - that way both fans and drivers can make more $$$$$. :D
BK how much can you win at the champ races Cash Money and do they pay down as a percentage or what is it.
How much are the points worth ,cash value at the end of the season per point.
How much tow money do you receive if you complete everything and start the final . Thank You Bob

[Miss BK]

Most teams rely on sponsorship dollars to keep their teams afloat, they aren't living on prize money. This is the case with all major motor sport teams - Even NASCAR teams are funded by sponsors, but a good sponsor is impossible to secure without a productive Series.

But a healthy series which offers television, media attention and sponsor perks is what keeps the team sponsors happy, and keeps the teams funded.


As far as prizes, I don't know what they pay out for each race. I think it differs per event ---- For instance, Terry Rinker won money PLUS a $25,000 Girard-Perregaux watch at the Pittsburgh race. (See http://www.champboatracing.com/home/read.asp?ID=2 )



Here is the Series and Mercury year-end Points payout for ChampBoat in 2004:

2004 CHAMPBOAT SERIES FUND PAYOUT
Mercury Contingency Fund*
POSITION
CHAMP - SST-120 ________ ROOKIE
1 $6,000 - $3,000 ________ 1 $4,000
2 3,900 -- 2,600 ________ 2 2,500
3 3,000 -- 2,400
4 2,650 -- 2,100
5 2,150 -- 1,900
6 1,900 -- 1800
7 1,650 -- 1500
8 1,400 -- 1200
9 1,250 -- 1000
10 1,100 -- 1000


Series Point Fund**
CHAMP_____SST-120
15% -- 8%
11% -- 6%
9% -- 5%
7% -- 4%
6% -- 3%
5% -- 2%
4% -- 2%
3% -- 2%
2% -- 2%
2% -- 2%


*Payout of total $50,000 based on retail value of goods.
**Estimated points fund payout $25,000 cash. Amounts listed are percentages of whatever the final total cash payout might be.

[B VALACHOVIC]

Most ChampBoat teams rely on sponsorship dollars to keep their teams afloat, they aren't living on prize money. This is the case with all major motor sport teams.

But a healthy series which offers television, media attention and sponsor perks is what keeps the team sponsors happy, and keeps the teams funded.


As far as prizes,
Here is the Series and Mercury Points payout for ChampBoat in 2004:

2004 CHAMPBOAT SERIES FUND PAYOUT
Mercury Contingency Fund* Series Point Fund**

POSITION
CHAMP SST-120 ROOKIE CHAMP SST-120
1 $6,000 $3,000 1 $4,000 15% 8%
2 3,900 2,600 2 2,500 11% 6%
3 3,000 2,400 9% 5%
4 2,650 2,100 7% 4%
5 2,150 1,900 6% 3%
6 1,900 1800 5% 2%
7 1,650 1500 4% 2%
8 1,400 1200 3% 2%
9 1,250 1000 2% 2%
10 1,100 1000 2% 2%


*Payout of total $50,000 based on retail value of goods.
**Estimated points fund payout $25,000 cash. Amounts listed are percentages of whatever the final total cash payout might be.
BK Thank You. Now everyone can see this for the Champ Series at least.

[Miss BK]

You are welcome Bob.

keep in mind this was for last season. I don't have the info for 2005.

[spn#43]

Here is 2005 Champ Boat prize money payout

Champ

Pole position- $500.00
1. $4.000.00
2. $2.500.00
3. $2.100.00
4. $1.800.00
5. $1.600.00
6. $1.400.00
7. $1.300.00
8. $1.200.00
9. $1.100.00
10. $1.000.00
11. $1.000.00
12. $1.000.00
13. $1.000.00
14. $1.000.00
15. $1.000.00

Rookie

1. $800.00
2. $400.00
3. $300.00

SST-120

1. $1.500.00
2. $1.000.00
3. $800.00
4. $700.00
5. $600.00
6. $500.00
7. $400.00
8. $300.00
9. $300.00
10. $300.00

SST-45

1. $600.00
2. $475.00
3. $350.00
4. $225.00
5. $100.00
6. $100.00
7. $100.00
8. $100.00
9. $100.00
10. $100.00

Plus end of the season Series Point Fund like Val posted already and Mercury Contingency Fund.

[B VALACHOVIC]

That looks really good to me SPN .

[David Mason]

Big differences between Champ and SST120 payouts. There are more SST120 than Champs.........

Is Champ a lot more expensive to race than 120 ?

[TabaraRacing12]

Champ versus 120. Well depends, if you want to be Top 5 in Champ it will cost you MUCH MUCH more than top 5 120. The problem is good equipment and further more good props. Props Props Props, if you can buy lots and have the right friends in the right places welcome to the show, if you dont, you might get to buy all the stuff with big $$$$, or else you are like most champ racers besides 4 or 5 boats and you are out there. Now realize the past few years of the motor issues going on. EFI boxes etc, test, test, and test and yea whetever lol, we all know what is out there, so these new sealed efi boxes might fix this problem. But the reason why OPC gets to be out of control on prices is the costs of having something that is good.

FYI- I have 5 local dirt tracks in the area that I have raced it with Wissota, and I had much less money than a 120 invested and I ran for 2 or 3 times the purse of Champ.

And i went back to boat racing...LOL go figure... :confused:

[TabaraRacing12]

One thing where boat racing and specially OPC with series racing is to make the big teams and drivers more accesible for fans. This is where NHRA drag racing and nascar have a huge advantage. Between heats during the day people can walk back and check out what is going on behind the scenes. By making the drivers more accessible you will automatically have more fan following as these spectators move from spectators to fans, which then moves into the idea of following a certain driver throughout the season.

I think Page has brought up many good ideas.

Ron, versus where boat racing used to be to where it is and needs to go today. Boat racing as a hobby sport is not enough for it to survive, we need the professional series racing to keep grass roots around. THIS IS NOT A STOCK OUTBOARD KNOCK, we are discussing OPC, it is very important you do not mix the 2 when discussing where the sport needs to go. You must realize that Page is referring to OPC. The costs to run these boats, the high end of OPC, takes a massive amount of money which needs sponsorship and a high profile series to survive.

It by any means is not wrong for a boat racer who is racing OPC with a 50,000 dollar rig to say I want to get some of the cost back from races. There shouldnt be any reason why if we started a 24 boat Champ filed that 10 thru last should get ATLEAST 350, winner 5,000 to 10,000.

Grass Roots OPC racing absolutely NEEDS professional series racing to survive. With the right promotion and leaders in a series this could happen, BUT remember boat racing and those involved with the motors/rules are the ones that have killed it. They are the ones who made some of the best boat racers in the world turn there backs to the sport. We are now paying the price from the politics from the 80's and 90's.

Nobody can knock Page and say you dont understand him, it comes down to one thing, he believes driving Champ or F1 should be prestigious. Grass roots OPC racing needs these series races. On a local level when racing your goal is to one day make it to the level of series racing.

As it has been mentioned before we need to have a better show with less gaps, more things to do at the races etc.

I will point this out about the hour wait to line up Champ/120 after a crash. Once the course is cleared if you are not on the dock we are going without you. Forget this 5 min work bs. If you get it working you can rejoin the race, BUT do not make the show wait for just 1 boat to get worked on no matter who you are or what your name is. Do they wait in Nascar? F1? I didnt think so.

[tacobellprop]

I will point this out about the hour wait to line up Champ/120 after a crash. Once the course is cleared if you are not on the dock we are going without you. Forget this 5 min work bs. If you get it working you can rejoin the race,

"Backup boat point system"..........

Seebold, 2nd in points coming off a win a week ago in Bay City caused the first red flag of the day on the 12th lap by stuffing the boat down in the notorious short straight between turns 3 and 4 on the east end of the race course. He took number 2 teammate Nathan Worthy out of his boat when in 6th place and put him self in the backup boat and finished 5th when the day was over. It was the 3rd time in four events this year Tim failed to reach the podium.

Some rules like this sound so amateurish to me.

[Miss BK]

The reason for the Back-up boat system....


In order for the Series to collect promised prize money, most contracts stipulate they will pay the full amount ONLY when a certain number boats are entered.

The dwindilng teams over the past few years began to cause concern that some races would not meet the 15 boat minumum. So one way to see full fields was to ask some of the top teams (the teams who bring back-up boats) to put a rookie driver in their SECOND rig - thus, the Series would meet the contract requiments, and bring some new blood into the sport.

Now, of course, these top drivers were not too thrilled when they first heard about this program - because they needed their spare boats to be ready in the pits --- just in case something happened.

So, the Series told them that they would not be penalized, and IF a situation occurred where they would need to get into their backup, they could do so without losing position or penalty.

In otherwords, the backup boat system was installed to create a larger show. The downside is that the rookies have to give up their ride if something happens to the #1 rig. But they already knew that going in.

[B VALACHOVIC]

While we are here. Why is it that we do not see any JOHNSON's running. You can't tell me that Bombardier can't make them competitive or at least supply the parts so somene can put one together. Bob

[spn#43]

In UIM circuit Velden racing team tried running OMC and they were totally uncompetitive even with much bigger engine displacement. Instantly when they switched back to Mercury it moved them from bottom to one of the top running teams.
Here in USA two teams Hydro Tec and Anderson teams tried running Yamahas but unfortunately without much success.
I would like to see some color in the field it would help the series, but it would have to take full factory effort.

[B VALACHOVIC]

In UIM circuit Velden racing team tried running OMC and they were totally uncompetitive even with much bigger engine displacement. Instantly when they switched back to Mercury it moved them from bottom to one of the top running teams.
Here in USA two teams Hydro Tec and Anderson teams tried running Yamahas but unfortunately without much success.
I would like to see some color in the field it would help the series, but it would have to take full factory effort.
Spn were these Johnson engines 3 liter downsized 8 cyl's

[Ron Hill]

I think I will go to the President of Evinrude and get a e-Tec 225 for my MOD VP. It is a 2006 motor, with a cone.... We need to RACE STOCK APPEARING motors...LIKE NASCAR started out to be....

When Formula One reappears, look for MOD VP to be part of their program....

Howard Pipkorn and I were always going to strat a business called MAXIMUM EFFORT...

Where OMC went wrong was: Their Production motors sound like V-4's...not V-8's...A Race V-8 was the coolest, nastiest sound you ever heard.....Of course, they burned 50 gallons an hour each, as I recall!!!!

Old pictures, for Vapor Trails, 1988.

Benny Robertson and Rick Hoffman!!!

[spn#43]

Spn were these Johnson engines 3 liter downsized 8 cyl's
Don’t know much about those engines but if I’m not mistaken they were 3.0l V-6’s

[B VALACHOVIC]

I recall the SST 100 class that I actually thought was a good class. They took a L C G tower housing from a V8 Johnson and re geared the gearcase placed a stock V4 on this with a different cengine cowling. The boats would travel around 90 + mph and sound like a little V8 .

Why Van der Velden's boats didnt run well who knows.

[Bob Valachovic]

So S P N after all of this from all of us talking about everything ,are you going to return to Kankakee next season?

[RAISINGCAIN]

The reason thier is no Johnnyrudes in the Champ/SST120 show is because of the rules! Look at them, Yamaha - after winning X# of races you must lower your rev limiter:eek: . Johnnyrude- lower RPM than the "BLACK" engines. Look at the points payout- Merc points? My point is that no matter what you try to run, if the rules keep you from being competitive then the rules need to be changed. But I am worried that Champ is sooooo far in bed with Merc that the other brands will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage! Look at most of the old (70-80's) pics on this site, what do you see? A lot of Johnnyruds, rules start changing you start seeing less and less of them. The blame also sits on OMC's sholders for not putting the money or attention into the sport like Merc did. Where there is money their is influence! Ron Hill has even stated that a Merc rep was on hand some of the APBA rules and class meetings:eek:

Somebody please prove me wrong! ;)

[Ron Hill]

I was quoted as saying MERCURY was at the APBA meetings....but keep in mind MERCURY RACING DOES CARE ABOUT BOAT RACING or they wouldn't be at the meetings....Try if I will...Yamaha, Johnson, Evinrude, and Suzuki have made no effort to support boat racing...that I can see. There was a Suzuki and Yamaha in Super Sport...

Tohatsu isn't in the game either...they don't have a legal motor for any APBA class...

Mercury builds an S-3000 RACE MOTOR...In my opinion, this is the finest V-6 motor built to date...And anyone can buy one...

Stoker, helped CEES build a V-6 for Europe, but told Cees, they needed better pistons...No one wanted to pay the price, so, the engine failed as predicted by Al Stoker... Al built one motor, then they had someone else build the rest....Hmmm.

Yamaha once built a complete MOD U motor....after a testing accident that resulted in DEATH...Yamaha was sued....they destroyed all racing parts, and ain't really been back....

I've heard this quote for my 60 years..."What we need is better publicity".... Well, if you had 100,000 show up would they go home happy????

San Diego had over 100,000 watching, Champboats weren't there....Will there be a race in San Diego next year??? YES!!!!

I went to a car show in Havasu...$80 entry fee, 1,000 cars...The $80 got you two tickets for Friday's and Saturday's dance and show. Two T-Shirts, two lunches each day, two alcohol drinks each day, and two sodas each day....Seems the car owners got some value for their $80 entry fee...Plus there were at least 16 Classes of Show with cool trophies...

Of course, they were showing their $50,000 cars.....But, for two days, people paid $12.00 each to watch and everytime I went near the gate, people were coming in....They got their $12 worth....

Win, win, and win..City did well, promoter did well, the car owners didn't go broke...spectators had a good time........

When you go to a Champboat race.....

Let's see..

Someone wins one heat....Someone wins the scond heat...and Someone wins the final...20 boats...three winners, 17 losers...Hmmm...how does this differ from a car show???

Champboat Racing needs NIGHT RACING....in St. Louis....(Because it is hot as all get out there in the day).....JUst one suggestion.

[RAISINGCAIN]

Ron,
I agree 100 % on the Merc support read my post next to the last line (The blame also sits on OMC's sholders for not putting the money or attention into the sport like Merc did. Where there is money their is influence!) But that still does not explain why Champ and APBA has made the rules so one sided. Merc does not care about the sport, they care about selling motors! If they cared about the sport they would insist that the rules be equal for all makes! put them head to head cubic inch for cubic inch DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR and we will see which motor more racers use:) Just like the ODBA unlimited class, when the big boys show up with those white Johnnies they are unstopable.

[RAISINGCAIN]

Now that I have got my motor vent out of the way, let me address the original post. I agree that the pay out at these rasces are not high enough. I know that there are alot of factors that set this pay, but thats the problem, no one is doing anything to solve the core problems. If you need more people to come out and watch the race then accomadate them. I cannot speak for all race venues but I have been to quite a few boat races of many different kinds and all of them treat the fans the same way (except Firebird). Crappy viewing area (almost never bleachers) lack of souviners, and only one or two people selling food & drinks. Give the people some bang for there buck and they will come!

If NASCAR and NHRA had the same type of treatment to there fans I would bet my right arm that there would be alot of changes including those big paychecks! (NO FANS = NO MONEY & NO SPONSOR)

Boat racing is one of the only sports that I know of where a Profesional has to hold down a regular job just to make ends meet:p

[Ted March]

Hi Justin,

I've been going to Jasper every year (5 years) since 2001. Ain't seen no white motor in the Unlimited winner's circle yet. Fact is. In these five years, I've only seen one white motor in the winner's circle in any class. Lake Racer 2001 - on a Triad V21.

Tell Dad Hello.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

They have the same kind of event here where the weekend is solid collectors cars, like over 2,000 this year with spectators outnumbering cars about 10 to 1 and evening events, shirt sales, swap meet to hold everyone there and have a real good time. It was all very inexpensive too. What it was though was a "spectator event"! They had loudest stero contests, tire burnouts and every manner of stuff. Its becoming bigger every year the way Sturgess SD has become to the motorcycle community, a big participant and even a bigger spectator event. It takes hard work, a business plan, a participant base and honesty to make it all work for the spectators and it then happens and will happen time and time again. :)

[TabaraRacing12]

Bob, If ChampBoat is back and racing in Kankakee you will most likely see Page and his brother, if not you might not just like most other Champ guys, although there are some "exceptions" that will race even if it wasnt a Champ race, but in order for Kankakee to have a "good" field of Champ/Mod U boats you have to have it as a sanctioned race for ChampBoat points. Do not make this an issue of love for the sport, but time/money/traveling/cost factor. But most of those Champ guys that do race at the nationals when non series sanctioned are fairly close to Kankakee. MONEY WILL NOT BRING BOATS, but Series sanctions DO, thus we can look at last year in Kankakee where there was either a 20,000 or 25,000 dollar purse plus tow money for Mod-U Worlds and only 6 boats showed with everyone concerned about the ChampBoat race a week or 2 after the nationals. Those boats were Tim Seebold, Chris Fairchild, Wyatt Nelson, Lynn Simburger, Pete Nydahl, and 1 other West coast boat but I dont recall his name off hand.

[Bob Valachovic]

Bob, If ChampBoat is back and racing in Kankakee you will most likely see Page and his brother, if not you might not just like most other Champ guys, although there are some "exceptions" that will race even if it wasnt a Champ race, but in order for Kankakee to have a "good" field of Champ/Mod U boats you have to have it as a sanctioned race for ChampBoat points. Do not make this an issue of love for the sport, but time/money/traveling/cost factor. But most of those Champ guys that do race at the nationals when non series sanctioned are fairly close to Kankakee. MONEY WILL NOT BRING BOATS, but Series sanctions DO, thus we can look at last year in Kankakee where there was either a 20,000 or 25,000 dollar purse plus tow money for Mod-U Worlds and only 5 boats showed with everyone concerned about the ChampBoat race a week or 2 after the nationals.
I originally said that nobody will stay away from the Nationals no matter where they are.
All that was said here is on the positive side, everyone saying their peace. Lots of information here that can be viewed again and again. Nothing will ever happen or change if no one says anything.
Lets just say it is a large group meeting with a lot of information and input.
Thats how things happen by input and reasoning,(anything successful).

[TabaraRacing12]

You are right that nothing will ever change if nobody ever says anything. Another thing that maybe some people can help out here with is we just got a new channel in our dish network package called the H20 Channel/Water channel, I have seen drag boats (IHBA) offshore, poker run stuff but nothing with OPC, I think this channel might be a great place for perhaps APR to get a TV promotional spot if they want to take the series to that level...and maybe they have looked into it, I have no idea I was just wondering if any OPC has been seen on the channel.

[Bob Valachovic]

Bob, If ChampBoat is back and racing in Kankakee you will most likely see Page and his brother, if not you might not just like most other Champ guys, although there are some "exceptions" that will race even if it wasnt a Champ race, but in order for Kankakee to have a "good" field of Champ/Mod U boats you have to have it as a sanctioned race for ChampBoat points. Do not make this an issue of love for the sport, but time/money/traveling/cost factor. But most of those Champ guys that do race at the nationals when non series sanctioned are fairly close to Kankakee. MONEY WILL NOT BRING BOATS, but Series sanctions DO, thus we can look at last year in Kankakee where there was either a 20,000 or 25,000 dollar purse plus tow money for Mod-U Worlds and only 5 boats showed with everyone concerned about the ChampBoat race a week or 2 after the nationals.
The original quote that started this thread by Page was that he received 150.00 for Mod U . Now i am reasoning this out and saying that if only 5 boats showed and even if more joined in and there was $25,000.00 offered for the class + tow money You are saying there was that weekend for this UIM event . WHATS UP Please print out the payout from the 25 grand + tow money so everyone can see this.
M.R.Tabara probably doesnt have the payout list but i am sure that someone does.

[TabaraRacing12]

I was talking about last years OPC 04 nationals (go back and read it again if you need to Mr Valachovic) where they held the UIM Mod U Worlds. There was going to be a purse of 25,000 if "X" many of boats showed, BUT only 5 or 6 boats showed. I dont have a race circular from last year, but there was a "huge" purse for Mod-U, but all were a no show. Also note that tow money plus local sponsor monies were also payed. This played a part into the big sponsorship troubles this year for the nationals as sponsors had put up big $$$ in 04. So as you can see "money" doesnt bring boat racers, series conjuction does. If the boats that showed this year would have showed up last year they ALL would have went home with decent checks.

[Bob Valachovic]

I was talking about last years OPC 04 nationals (go back and read it again if you need to Mr Valachovic) where they held the UIM Mod U Worlds. There was going to be a purse of 25,000 if "X" many of boats showed, BUT only 5 or 6 boats showed. I dont have a race circular from last year, but there was a "huge" purse for Mod-U, but all were a no show. Also note that tow money plus local sponsor monies were also payed. This played a part into the big sponsorship troubles this year for the nationals as sponsors had put up big $$$ in 04. So as you can see "money" doesnt bring boat racers, series conjuction does. If the boats that showed this year would have showed up last year they ALL would have went home with decent checks.
(If i need to).
Soebody Please print the out the pay out for This year for MOD U so Eveyone knows why Page got a hundred fifty bucks for running his boat.
Thats wy this thread was started n the first place. Thank You. Bob
Excuse me 105.00 i went back in the thread and looked.

[TabaraRacing12]

LOL, YES YOU NEED TO :confused:

APBA Race Circular
Sanction ID 1535

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Regatta OPC NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
Date 2005-09-02 thru 2005-09-05
Sanction Status Approved Region # 7
Conducting Club GREAT LAKES BOAT CLUB, INC. Club# 28
Co-Host CHAMPBOAT SERIES
Application Date 2005-07-11 Approved on 2005-08-09


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Place Kankakee , IL Kankakee River

Directions I57 to Exit 312, take Hwy 17 West 4 blocks to Court St. Turn left and follow signs to pits.

Accommodations Holiday Inn Express 815-932-4411, Quality Inn & Suites 815-939-3501, Country Inn & Suites 815-468-2600, Hampton Inn 815-932-8369, Fairfield Inn 815-935-1334. These are sponsoring hotels please use them.


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Classes
Monday, September 5, 2005
07280 - SST 120 National Championship
07290 - SST 60 National Championship
07310 - SST 45 National Championship
07340 - FORMULA 150 National Championship
07350 - SPORT C National Championship
07390 - FORMULA V National Championship
07400 - CHAMP National Championship
07640 - MOD U National Championship

** ADDITION TO CIRCULAR, 8/30/05 ** The following is added to this sanctioned event: Monday, Sept. 5 - Exhibition of 4 Outboard Drag Boats. Sport C, SST 60, Formula V, Super Sport, Formula 150, Mod U - two 7 lap qualifing heats, one 7 to 10 lap final. SST 45 - two 10 lap heats, 30 lap final. SST 120 - two 10 lap heats, 30 lap final. Champ - two 15 lap heats, 50 lap final. Class scheduling will be posted on APBA website news or contact Mike Wienandt.
Format/Rules SST 45: Approx. 3/4 mile course. Not Approved for Records All other classes: Approx. 1 Mile course. Not Approved for Records.

Prizes Sport C, Formula V, SST 60, Super Sport, Formula 150 and Mod U: $1,500 per class per table. SST 45 - $4,000 Per ChampBoat payout table. SST 120 - $7,500 Per ChampBoat payout table. Champ - $20,000 Per ChampBoat payout table. Possible Bonus money to be announced later. Payout table available upon request.

Registration Pre-registrtion ONLY. Send by 8/25/05. You must enter in advance. Mail, Fax or Email. Bring your check to the club house when you check in before any testing. $100 late fee for not preregistering Friday: 9:00 a.m. - 11:30 a.m. / 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. only. Saturday: 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. only Sunday: 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. only

Drivers Meeting Saturday, Sunday, Monday: 10:45 a.m. at Pavilion

Send Entries To Mail, Email or Fax. You MUST send entry in advance by 8/25/05. Mike Wienandt, W6912 Fox Drive, Fond du Lac, WI 54937 E-mail: apbaopc1@charter.net - Fax: 920-921-2755
Entry Fees Sport C, Formula V, Super Sport, SST 60: $100 each SST 45, Formula 150, Mod U: $150 each SST 120 - $200 - Champ - $400


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Officials
AsstRef: DEE BERGHAUER 1505 WOODSIDE LN ELM GROVE, WI 53122-1982
AsstRef: GARY ROMBERG 45012 BYRNE DR NORTHVILLE, MI 48167-2802
Inspector: EDGAR ROSE 741 SYCAMORE LN GLENCOE, IL 60022-1446
RaceDir: MIKE WIENANDT W6912 FOX DR FOND DU LAC, WI 54937-9154
Referee: NORM SCHAUB 1417 CARRIAGE DR WEST BEND, WI 53095-4584
RiskMan: LOUIS SCHUH 2293 E 3150 NORTH RD SAINT ANNE, IL 60964-7111
Scorer: KELLY LADD 11920 N MAIN WHITMORE LAKE, MI 48189-9340

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Notes * ChampBoat Series Points race for SST 45, SST 120, Champ classes * PAT WHITCOMB will be ASSISTANT RACE DIRECTOR for the entire event and will handle all ChampBoat Series classes. * Fuel: VP Racing Fuel will be the required fuel for SST 60, SST 120, F-150, Champ, Mod U. Bring your empty containers. A required 10 gal. in SST 60 and F-150, 15 gals. in SST 120 and Mod U and 30 gals. in Champ class - minimum must be purchased for these classes. VP will provide MS93-90 motor octane, VP Marine-95 motor octane, and VP Red-105 motor octane. All provided fuels meet APBA/OPC requirments. Fuel will only be available Friday noon to Saturday noon. You must be there to get your required fuel for the weekend. Sunoco GT 100 is not APBA/OPC approved. * Absolutly No motorhomes parked closer to the water then the end of the tennis court. MotorHome parking across the street. * Conducting Club is responsible for payment of the Region 7 Safety Fund fee of $10/sanction day, payable to the Region 7 Chairman, Dee Berghauer, 1505 Woodside Ln., Elm Grove, WI 53122-1982.


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This Regatta is Sanctioned through the APBA
All prizes are the responsibility of the conducting Club. APBA does not guarantee nor is it responsible for payment of prizes. You are advised this event may be canceled prior to the race due to circumstances beyond the control of this association. If you plan to travel a long distance, it is recommended that you contact the race sponsor prior to your departure to ensure this event will take place.

[TabaraRacing12]

04 Nationals was 10,000 for Mod U plus Champ 5,000 BUT there was more local sponsors, tow money, mercury support money. Between those 2 classes there was 20-25,000 total prize money available. Now those were the race circular prize monies layout. My bad I thought it was just Mod U but it was the combined purse of Mod U and Champ. I just remember no boats showing up for good money, UIM World Title, plus National Championship titles. This year 05 ChampBoat event brings in 3 times more Champ/Mod U boats.

[Bob Valachovic]

04 Nationals was 10,000 for Mod U plus Champ 5,000 BUT there was more local sponsors, tow money, mercury support money. Between those 2 classes there was 20-25,000 total prize money available. Now those were the race circular prize monies layout. My bad I thought it was just Mod U but it was the combined purse of Mod U and Champ. I just remember no boats showing up for good money, UIM World Title, plus National Championship titles. This year 05 ChampBoat event brings in 3 times more Champ/Mod U boats.
If no boats show up for good money, there should be a percentage discount for prize money for a sparse class so that the races in that particular class do not place a great strain on the funds provided for this class so that it can continue for the season or next season.(Less boats Less prize money). I read it wrong but if that is what happened ,last season and it placed a strain on the race this season from the last it should be adderesed so it is fixed.

[TabaraRacing12]

As we all know the Nationals was always known to have the most boats from the small boat to the big stuff. Now that times have changed we dont have 150 small boats that show up. In classes other than SST-120 and Champ you usually only see 6-12 boats. SST-60/Formula V/Sport C all these classes only have minimal numbers. SST 45's used to have to run last chance qualifiers, not just 1 but sometimes 2, now they are down to 15-20 boats a race. Which leaves the Nationals with 120's and Champ. In the past the number and competition in the smaller classes could outweigh the show of 120's, Champ, etc (big boats) but now that times have changed we need to have the best show out of the 120's and Champ to save the small boat count for all the other classes.

And I do believe that the purse always has a minimum boat count for the listed prize monies, but if the boats do not show they adjust accordingly.

[john miffco]

i was at kankakee along with tabara in 2004 and 2005
and i race the champ series with page
this thread started from page getting a small check from mod u

as been said boat count was low in 2004 for champ and mod u

as i understand there has to be a minimum of 5 boats in a class to be eligable for points,title and national honors,,,,,,,,,,,,
at drivers meeting they had 4 in champ,,,,3 for mod u
and had to get people in both classes to combine together to get the 5 boat count for both classes
pete nydal hurt motor,,,,and they had to scramble to try to get that 1 boat back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for mod u
thats how bad the boat count was for the 2 classes

champboat sales an event to sponsors with a 15 boat minimum field
so if you were a sponsor in 2004 at kankakee,,,,,would you sponsor again in 2005?

kankakee lost their largest sponsor and numerous smaller 1s for 2005
because of the low boat count and was a rainy weekend so revenue was also lost from paying spectators

so champboat series stepped in for 2005 and promoted the champ,sst120,45 classes
which gave series points to them teams,and also normal champ series prize money only for them 3 classes
all the other classes were only given 1,500 each

at the drivers meeting we were told 2005 had the largest boat count in years

as tabara said ,,,the series racing brought up the boat count.............

page is mad because the check he got for mod u was small,
well that was becuse they lost sponsor money from the yr previous
and mod u is not a champboat event.
he is used to the champseries payout and hope he understands the reasons why the mod u pay was low


do yall know that 2005 was the last yr on the contract for the kankakee race?
so i hope the good racing and boat count was enough to have kankakee pick back up the contract for a few more yrs
and enough promoting is done to bring back up the prize money
we can argue about the prize money and whos not going back

whats wrong with putting that energy together to make sure we dont lose another venue
hate to lose a great national event as kankakee
and none of us be able to go back

john

[spn#43]

I’m back in civilization, after 16 days without power, thanks to Wilma.
Looks like some of you misunderstood my original post.
I’m not mad only because of small check for Mod-U, which was just part of it. Main thing was that I was lied to, and screwed for sponsorship money (promised $500.00 received $0) plus cut short for Champ check and had to wait whole month for everything.
Will I go back to Kankakee? Only as a part of Champ Boat Series and that’s the only way.
I don’t know what’s the big deal that Kankakee contract is expired for Nationals, if they don’t sign up someone else will, you can bet there will be Nationals somewhere and change is always good, new venue, new people, new spectators , new sponsors….hey, think about it.

[Ron Hill]

So, by your post can I assume that you are putting a bid together for the 2006 OPC Nationals???

When I was OPC Chair, Kankakee was the ONLY BID. They have had a REGATTA on that river around that same time for more than 50 years.....

Is Region 5 going to bid for the Nationals??? How about Region 8??? Region 11 runs Sport C only....So, we can't plan that they will bid.....

Maybe, San Diego will bid for them!!!

OPC can count themselves LUCKY if Kankakee bids again......and in the future, if someone offers sponsor money, GET IT IN WRITING!!!! Because, if it isn't in writing, it is TALK!!!!

If I was Kankakee, I'd lower my prize money bid, raise the entry fees, and pay a per cent of the entry fee back as prize money....

We had 36 boats pay $300 to race the Blue Water Casino 300. The prize money paid back was $10,000. We raced for our own money, but 90 per cent of us will be back and 100 per cent of us knew going in that we weren't racing for money.

Kankakee is a small city like Parker......Where are they supposed to get more money???? (AND IF NO ONE ELSE BIDS FOR THE NATIONALS, WHY SHOULD THEY COME UP WITH MORE MONEY???) Maybe, charge a gate and split the gate 50/50 for prize money.....(This would be a good way to see if people will pay to watch a race...)...

The OPC NATIONALS is a RACE FOR DRIVERS TO WIN A NATIONAL TITLE....

[spn#43]

The reason thier is no Johnnyrudes in the Champ/SST120 show is because of the rules! Look at them, Yamaha - after winning X# of races you must lower your rev limiter:eek: . Johnnyrude- lower RPM than the "BLACK" engines. Look at the points payout- Merc points? My point is that no matter what you try to run, if the rules keep you from being competitive then the rules need to be changed. But I am worried that Champ is sooooo far in bed with Merc that the other brands will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage! Look at most of the old (70-80's) pics on this site, what do you see? A lot of Johnnyruds, rules start changing you start seeing less and less of them. The blame also sits on OMC's sholders for not putting the money or attention into the sport like Merc did. Where there is money their is influence! Ron Hill has even stated that a Merc rep was on hand some of the APBA rules and class meetings:eek:

Somebody please prove me wrong! ;)




Max displacement - Mercury 2.5L, Yamahaha 2.6L, sl-OMC 3.0L
RPM Limiter - Mercury 8600, Yamahaha 9000, sl-OMC 8600
Heads - Mercury 36cc, Yamahaha any, sl-OMC any
Intake - Mercury Merc spec, Yamahaha any, sl-OMC any


Cubic inch for cubic inch????

[spn#43]

So, by your post can I assume that you are putting a bid together for the 2006 OPC Nationals???

..

Yes Ron, you and me together.:) :D :) ;)

[Ron Hill]

We need to get a bid together by the APBA Convention the last week of January. The convention is in Fort Lauderdale.

All we need is about $40,000.
A place to hold it.
A club or group to run the race.
Someone to CHAIR the project......

Hmmm. This may not be easy!

[Mike Muldrow]

ODBA has a tentative race scheduled at Kanakakee in 2006. The date isn't set yet but who knows? Mike

[john miffco]

champboat series also has a tentative schedule for 2006 at kankakee
for sept 2=4
champboats only is listed to be there

there were 4 o/b drag boats there running at 2005 event for an exhibition

looks so far could just be drags and champs for 2006 at kankakee

[TABARARACING]

Are you guys sure that its not on Champs site to support the event like they did this past 2005 year?
The champboat guys made that into a really fun event for spectators and drivers who like spectating when not driving.
Champ also has Minneapolis listed, that would be really cool to have the Minneapolis Aquatennial again!

[Pitboss]

Brian....Saw that champboat had Mpls scheduled for 06. Lets hope that they have it on one of the MANY LAKES in the area and not the river! There are lots of lakes but what will be available..who knows. Be a cool place to race on Calhoun lake.

When you guys have a race at Moose Lake, is it in the lake right in town? I remember when turning off 35E that there is a lake right there. Is that the one?

When ya gonna come out and get to a APR superleague race? The one in Peoria Ill wouldnt be too far.

Keep em dry... Pitboss

[Ted March]

puts on one helluva show. It would be a huge draw in boats if it suddenly became part of the Mercury Triple Crown Series, which would seem logical since Kankakee is so close to Mercuy headquarters. It would sure shorten the pull for the Mercury trailer.

[TABARARACING]

Nothings more cool than the river races for spectators. I know for the owners of equipment its not much fun, and hoping nothings floating down, but for you of those who have been to the Minneapolis aquatennial you'll never forget it. I remember seing thousands on the other side of the river, and strung across the bridges watching. Because of the angle of the banks, its like a outboard racing arena in metropolitan Minneapolis. It sure is really neat, Kankakee has a fraction of that with the banks.
Moose Lake is right in town, that is just a little local race for guys to have a good time at the end of the year.
Brian