View Full Version : 59ci mercury tuner
tyst67
11-24-2013, 03:38 PM
What exactly does cutting the tuner and (adding a bell?) do for your performance on these motors! Hole shot or top end or both? And how do I do it?
mate I just bought a tuner off hydro tech,should be fittin it on the weekend and givin it a run.i'l post how it goes.
I've heard its a bit off a hit and miss cutting your tuner,works for some and not others.
I thought it gives you a bit more topend??
tyst67
11-24-2013, 10:59 PM
mate I just bought a tuner off hydro tech,should be fittin it on the weekend and givin it a run.i'l post how it goes.
I've heard its a bit off a hit and miss cutting your tuner,works for some and not others.
I thought it gives you a bit more topend??
Ok that's awesome! Let me know how it works :)
hi mate ,fitted the tuner and give it a run.i don't have a tach ,but I reckon its given it about 150/200rpm.its a lot more powerful in the topend,feels a bit better down low,but I fitted some reeds as well.
well worth doin in my opinion,my motors a stock 55 same as a 60hp
Fast Fred
12-01-2013, 06:50 AM
factory tunas are for a round power curves, bell style pushes the power to the top of the curve for a peaky top end. it does Not make HP, it just tunes the power you have.:cool:
my motors a stock 55 same as a 60hp
since when is a stock 55 the same as a 60 ?
I make it 5hp difference, unless its not stock anymore and has been taken to 60hp now ?
tyst67
12-01-2013, 04:10 PM
factory tunas are for a round power curves, bell style pushes the power to the top of the curve for a peaky top end. it does Not make HP, it just tunes the power you have.:cool:
Ok, so if it adds to top end it probably takes away a little from the bottom end! I have an extra tuner and I am gonna modify it! Do you have any opinion on how I should do it? I would like to find someone on this site that had done it before and send it to them so they can do it for me!
tyst67
12-01-2013, 04:15 PM
my motors a stock 55 same as a 60hp
since when is a stock 55 the same as a 60 ?
I make it 5hp difference, unless its not stock anymore and has been taken to 60hp now ?
They are the same! All parts are the same! The carb is the same size Venturi as the 60 except the 55 has smaller jets! I'm not sure if the 55 reed cage is slightly smaller or if it is the same as well
so its not the same then is it.
should of said same as 60 apart from the jets !!!!!!
you might also have restricter plate on or in the exhaust or behind the carbs !!!!!!!
you might also find the seapro has a lot more stainless fittings than a normal motor !!!!!!
like the old mariner v merc from the 80's in uk. mariners had stainless stuff, mercs had steel.
tyst67
12-01-2013, 05:09 PM
so its not the same then is it.
should of said same as 60 apart from the jets !!!!!!
you might also have restricter plate on or in the exhaust or behind the carbs !!!!!!!
you might also find the seapro has a lot more stainless fittings than a normal motor !!!!!!
like the old mariner v merc from the 80's in uk. mariners had stainless stuff, mercs had steel.
Yes you are right lol I wasn't fine tooth combing it. I ment they are the same carb same motor! Lol and you are right about stainless steal! Sea pros are stainless steal but again ! "The motors are the same besides material and a few dollar part lol
the only difference between the 55 and 60 is the jets .060 for the 60 and .058 for the 55 ,also the 60 runs 4* more timing then the 55.
considering most guys with the 60hp fit the .058 jets and most guys with the 55hp bump the timing up to 24*.they may as well be the same.
I dunno about the seapro motors having more stainless???all the part numbers are the same
tyst67
12-01-2013, 10:44 PM
the only difference between the 55 and 60 is the jets .060 for the 60 and .058 for the 55 ,also the 60 runs 4* more timing then the 55.
considering most guys with the 60hp fit the .058 jets and most guys with the 55hp bump the timing up to 24*.they may as well be the same.
I dunno about the seapro motors having more stainless???all the part numbers are the same
Yeah sea pros and mariners have stainless shafts and the motor weighs about 15 pounds heavier because of this! Fs5 what reeds do you have now and what reeds did you used to have? And did you run a modified tuner before or is this new tuner the first you have tried? Is there any benifets of trying to modify my own?
mate pm me your email and i'l send you the pics of the hydro tech tuner and a stock one side by side.
i used to run chris carson reeds (sport) not his race ones.the ones i just fitted were the hydro tech carbon ones.
i put a comp gage on it today and my cranking cold compression has gone from 112 to 118 ???same gage.i think i may have over torqued the old reeds ,the were sittin pretty high off the reed block.
always ran the stock tuner until now..
putting different reeds in a motor will not give more compression, you can take the whole reed block out and the compression will stay the same.
only way to raise compression is in the combustion chamber, now unless you stuffed a load of rag in the carbs to stop any air getting into the block,
reeds do not give more cold cranking compression.
maybe this time you had a touch more fuel in the cylinders or the carbs open instead of shut.
,
HankFrazier
12-02-2013, 11:31 AM
putting different reeds in a motor will not give more compression, you can take the whole reed block out and the compression will stay the same.
only way to raise compression is in the combustion chamber, now unless you stuffed a load of rag in the carbs to stop any air getting into the block,
reeds do not give more cold cranking compression.
maybe this time you had a touch more fuel in the cylinders or the carbs open instead of shut.
,
I cant stop laughing. this is some funny stuff.
tyst67
12-02-2013, 12:05 PM
I cant stop laughing. this is some funny stuff.
Hank do you run a modified tuner? And if so how did you do the mod?
well that's what the gauge said mate...
if you think that by putting different reeds youl get more compression at cranking speed, then your on drugs..
reeds will work better when engine is running yes maybe.
but go read again, its when he is doing a piston compression check.
so if that was aimed at me, then now who's the funny one.
HankFrazier
12-02-2013, 02:38 PM
[QUOTE=fs5;136026]well that's what the gauge said mate...[/QUO
I believe what you said about the numbers but most likely due to the amount of oil in the cylinders. I am not making fun of any body on here it's just fun to me to watch people try to figure out stuff that we SRG has learned years ago. we know a lot about what it takes to make the 59 cid mercurys run fast and it's fun to watch other people play with them.when you discover the secrets that really work you don't share them. thats the way you stay on top and part of the fun of racing.
tyst67
12-02-2013, 02:46 PM
[QUOTE=fs5;136026]well that's what the gauge said mate...[/QUO
I believe what you said about the numbers but most likely due to the amount of oil in the cylinders. I am not making fun of any body on here it's just fun to me to watch people try to figure out stuff that we SRG has learned years ago. we know a lot about what it takes to make the 59 cid mercurys run fast and it's fun to watch other people play with them.when you discover the secrets that really work you don't share them. thats the way you stay on top and part of the fun of racing.
Hehe that's my problem, I tell almost everything to help people out! I'd like to know some of your secrets! New Brunswick is a long ways away ;)
do any of you clean up and polish the reed housings to get better air flow ...
i.e unrestricted due to the horrid castings with razor sharp rough edges being cleaned up.
just a thought, as every little bit helps, ive seen people polish some crazy stuff to get a bit extra.
.
like I said,the reeds were sitting about .060 off the reed block,i remember last time I did a comp test the motor made a croaking sound back out the carbies with the old reeds in it...it is what it is .i'm happy with the new ones.
I polished my reed block ,It can't hurt.
ima75man
12-03-2013, 12:54 PM
that's a little bit different than i thought it would be.. thanks looks like it will work
how much different is that to the normal one ?
and what gains are you hoping for with this one ?
.
MWhite
12-03-2013, 07:26 PM
got a question,, if your motor is running wide open say at 7000 rpms are the reeds closing and shutting at every stroke,, are r they hung open???
this should be an interesting answer
some say they open and close every cycle and some say when you reach a certain rpm they stay open???personaly I wouldn't have a clue..
this is a bit off topic,but would trimming the bottom of the sleeve on the intake side back to the block ,help the motor flow better?
MWhite
12-04-2013, 03:04 PM
some say they open and close every cycle and some say when you reach a certain rpm they stay open???personaly I wouldn't have a clue..
this is a bit off topic,but would trimming the bottom of the sleeve on the intake side back to the block ,help the motor flow better?
u talking about cutting the sleeve window on the intake side back to the casting???
u talking about cutting the sleeve window on the intake side back to the casting???
yeah mate.
we took it for a good fang last week and finaly cracked a 60mph on the gps (2up).the motors running the best it has in a long while.i did another comp test this arvo,and its the same 118psi.
was reading back through the posts
pdt,if you did a compression test without the reed block,just sounds silly to me.i thought the way 2stokes work is that the cylinder pushing down forces the charge in the chamber..without the reeds doesn't make sense to me???
mate I don't mind a beer ,but I definitely ain't smoking nothing..
testing the compression has nothing at all to do with how the engines induction system works.
you are only testing the squashed air in the gap between piston and cylinder head in the combustion chamber.
Compression only starts building up once the piston/rings have closed of both the exhaust and the inlet on the way up the stroke.
many builders of engine do a bench test to see about compression when doing mods to cylinder heads.
probably most of the guys on here who the modded stuff do the same with their race engines etc.
its not uncommon to test for compression without inlet manifolds or carbs or exhaust when rebuilding an engine.
The next time you take off your reed housing check it out, and i bet you the compression will be identical to when you put it back on.
obviously you wont believe me, but go check it out or ask the guru's on here.
.
Fastjeff57
12-09-2013, 08:57 AM
..."..testing the compression has nothing at all to do with how the engines induction system works"
Uuuummmm...not completely, for the compression stroke of the piston is what creates the vacuum that sucks in the air charge; and if the rings are really shot, the blow by will MURDER the inlet charge.
Jeff
PS: Worked on a Goodyear Sea Bee once that so little compression it couldn't open the reeds enough to suck in any air. It used a labyrinth (ugh!) top seal, which only aggravated the problem.
yes jeff the upward stroke does help to pull a fresh charge of air and fuel in the crankcase, but don't need to if no reeds are there to shut off the crankcase !!!!!!
we don't want to start it, we are just testing the combustion area for compression.
i had a sea bee once for about 10 minutes then took it straight back and got a little Johnson 4hp twin.
.
Fastjeff57
12-09-2013, 05:21 PM
Don't blame you!
Jeff
I always thought the piston moving down forced the mix up through the intake port into the chamber?if there were no reeds in it, it would just blow it out the crank and only rely on what the piston could suck in ??
next time I have it apart i'l do a compression test without the reed block in it.
Fastjeff57
12-10-2013, 05:10 AM
Reeds, a piston port design, a rotary valve...something HAS to keep the air from blowing back out the crankcase. The exception (not really) is EMD type diesels, where the crankcase has oil in it and a blower is required to push air into the cylinders.
Jeff
PS: Read this the other day: Some early aircraft engines had auxiliary exhaust ports (holes) drilled through the bottom of the cylinder wall to improve performance. The exhaust was simply allowed to vent out--obviously not a practical method nowadays!
there is millions of 2strokes that don't have reeds or a rotary valve as well.
not yet come acros a hedge trimmer motor with reeds, or small chainsaw motors, they still have good compression.
got 2 small mcaulloch engines here with no reeds or rotary vales, still good compression.
there is a lot of difference between the induction and the compression. the compression only takes place once the combustion chamber is fully closed off.
or in the case of my 60 rude halfway past those soppy compression relief holes.
Now for instance just take that engine alone, both inlet and exhaust ports are closed before the piston ring passes the little holes.
the average 2 stroke petrol outboard works on the old saying of "suck squeeze bang method", not pressure then squeeze then bang unless its fuel injected in some way.
the reeds are only there to keep crankcase pressure realy, and the more precise pressure they keep it I suppose is the better.
ive got a compressor in the garage, that compressor motor is almost a engine when you look at it, except instead of fuel and exhaust,it just get the air ,compresses it like in
a 2 stroke and dumps it out of its exhaust port down a pipe and into the tank.
ive seen plenty of home made compressors that have used 2 stroke engines as their compressor, probably a good few on you tube.
.
Fastjeff57
12-10-2013, 02:22 PM
That's a piston port design--I believe that I covered those.
Anyone out there ever ride an early Honda Elsinore, or a Suzuki TM-125 dirt bike? They were both piston pot engines with lots of intake open duration. Easy to bog the motor and, if you did, it sat there gagging away until it finally cleared out. (Ah, what fun we all had back then!) Eventually, every manufacturer went to reeds or a rotary valve, and power output (not to mention ride ability) improved.
Jeff
british seagull is another
only reeds they saw were in shallow water ha ha and yes I still have one.it just refuses to die ha ha
.
testing the compression has nothing at all to do with how the engines induction system works.
you are only testing the squashed air in the gap between piston and cylinder head in the combustion chamber.
Compression only starts building up once the piston/rings have closed of both the exhaust and the inlet on the way up the stroke.
many builders of engine do a bench test to see about compression when doing mods to cylinder heads.
probably most of the guys on here who the modded stuff do the same with their race engines etc.
its not uncommon to test for compression without inlet manifolds or carbs or exhaust when rebuilding an engine.
The next time you take off your reed housing check it out, and i bet you the compression will be identical to when you put it back on.
obviously you wont believe me, but go check it out or ask the guru's on here.
.
well mate you were right about something,i pulled the reeds on the weekend and did a compression test.it pumped 120psi 2 more then without the reeds fitted.same guage.
Fast Fred
02-05-2014, 04:08 PM
four stroke needs to have the throttle wide open or it will come up short on psi. most engine builder cc the head.
Fastjeff57
02-05-2014, 05:32 PM
Having the throttle open is also not necessary (contrary to popular belief). Done it both ways and there's no difference.
Jeff
Fast Fred
02-06-2014, 08:06 AM
so just so there is no confusion, on two strokes havin the throttle open does not make a big difference when doin a comp test. on four strokes it makes a big difference, it will come up vary short on psi if the throttle is not wide open.
hightide
08-05-2014, 07:52 PM
I have a 50 with 60 carbs currently and am wanting to swap to the 60 tuner(part number 8m0045214) and modify it like I've read about here, does anyone have specifications of exactly what they did to theirs? Will there be any fitment issues on my 50?
MWhite
08-06-2014, 09:07 AM
Its the same, except at the top where it vents.
hightide
08-06-2014, 05:02 PM
So it wouldn't be worth changing? Or are you saying it will fit fine?
MWhite
08-06-2014, 05:50 PM
no,,, work on the one u have. the 60 will fit yours fine, but its no different than the one u got now,(sizes wise).
LittleCharger
08-06-2014, 06:43 PM
no,,, work on the one u have. the 60 will fit yours fine, but its no different than the one u got now,(sizes wise).
Tried to send you a pm but your box is full.
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