Bonneville towers and Chrysler racers

[Modhydro Steve]

Can anyone provide some info on Bonneville towers? I have one for a Chrysler and would like more info on them. What all did they make? When did they make them? Does anyone have more info on Chrysler racers than what is in the factory brocures? I have a 105 and a later one that was supposed to have been built my Mercury under the Force banner. Any info is welcome and greatly appreciated.

[spn#43]

Can anyone provide some info on Bonneville towers? I have one for a Chrysler and would like more info on them. What all did they make? When did they make them? Does anyone have more info on Chrysler racers than what is in the factory brocures? I have a 105 and a later one that was supposed to have been built my Mercury under the Force banner. Any info is welcome and greatly appreciated.

Look for T-Rex over on www.byuboyz.com forums, he knows all about Chrysler.

[Mark75H]

T-Rex knows how to make them go fast, but he's not a big historian.

Chrysler built racers from 1968 until 1976, ranging from 105 hp to 150 hp. Chrysler got out of the outboard business in 1983 when they sold the outboard stuff to an investment group that called itself "US Marine". I think US Marine sold out to Merc in the early 1990's. I've heard the Merc/Force racer rumor many times, but I very much doubt Merc had anything to do with any Force racer given the stretch of years between the Chrysler racers and the year Merc acquired Force.

There are a few simularities between the Chrysler racing lower unit and the McCulloch racing lower unit. This is because when McCulloch got out of racing in 1967 their racing R&D team became available and was picked up by Chrysler. The team consisted of Bob Kies, Jack Oxley and Danny Snead. I located and interviewed Kies and Oxley a few years back about their involvement with both companies. The early 105 Chyrsler racers just had the racing lower unit bolted on to a std short shaft powerhead. There were also racers badged as 120 and 135. Next they added the open megaphone exhaust and finally larger carbs, L-shaped piston rings and a higher compression ratio on the 150 hp racer. The early racing lower unit used a fat 7/8" prop shaft and couldn't use Merc Speedmaster props. The 150 type racing lower unit used the same splines on the prop shaft, but had more space between the shaft and exhaust outlet, so a larger diameter prop could be used compared to a Merc Super Speedmaster. There was also a 2" longer racing lower unit for bigger boats with taller transoms (the extra 2" is all under the cav plate). Chrysler never made a big splash in APBA OPC racing, but did very well in outboard drags, holding many speed records over the years.

The Bonneville mid sections were made by Bob Florian in California during the time Chrysler motors were popular and fast at the drag races. Bob also made short mids for 6 cylinder Mercs and 4 cylinder D Mercs; again popular with drag racers. The time frame was probably 1969 to 1972 for all Bonnies.

The Bonneville mids were intended to be used with Merc D clamps & swivel assemblies. The gear ratio is 17:15 (7% overdrive). There were optional 7% reduction gears, but they are very rare.

[OLEGATORXX]

For Some Reason, There Are People On This Site, Who Think, Just Because They Never Saw A Good Running Chrysler, They Were Not Competitive. I'm Here To Tell You That Is Bs. Bobby Soles Ran One For A Couple Years That Was, Not Only Competitive, But Was A Many Time Winner. Since We Both Were From Florida, We Ran Against Each Other All Season Long. Neither He Nor I Were Able To Win 2 Heats In A Row, Including The Nationals. Had I Not Run The Nationals That Year, A Chrysler Would Have Been The Champion.

[spn#43]

;) ....

[Mark75H]

For Some Reason, There Are People On This Site, Who Think, Just Because They Never Saw A Good Running Chrysler, They Were Not Competitive. I'm Here To Tell You That Is Bs. Bobby Soles Ran One For A Couple Years That Was, Not Only Competitive, But Was A Many Time Winner. Since We Both Were From Florida, We Ran Against Each Other All Season Long. Neither He Nor I Were Able To Win 2 Heats In A Row, Including The Nationals. Had I Not Run The Nationals That Year, A Chrysler Would Have Been The Champion.

Jim is absolutely right. For example in 1970 Chryslers took 25 firsts, 29 second places and 30 thirds in OPC racing. Respectable in the least. :)

[59powercat1400]

Hey Steve, here's the 135 Chrysler I'm currently running on one of my 14ft. Fantasy Hydros. Dick.

[RichardKCMo]

Hey guys there a fella' here in the midwest area That has a c mod chrysler, David might know who, that runs real well.???
RichardKCMo

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

The two big Chrysler engines sitting here stored are both pleasure engines that are complete and ready to run as such. They were tradeins on new Mercs some dozen years ago and are just sitting in storage where I got my Merc Twister tunnel boat engine from. Now to find some Chrysler tuned exhausts, racing towers and gearcases! What an impressive hydro that green beast is!! That is the kind of big hydro I was hoping to find a while back for the Twister as I am no fancier of tunnel boats anyway.

Some one in the midwestern area has a Chrysler C-Mod engine. I know where there are a number of those sized pleasure engines too. That is worth a lookeesee all by itself. Chryslers enjoyed a good reputation here too and there were a lot around for a long time.
:)

[Modhydro Steve]

Two lower units that I got were painted with the "Force" blue and have a longer skeg (as cast and not welded on) They both have a 1" 15 spline while a whitish Chrysler one I have has a smaller diamter 12 tooth spline. I don't know if this will be a clue for anyone or not.

I think it is Campen's with the C mod Chrysler.

[Sunburnt]

Here is a couple of Pic's of another project boat from the Dick's Marine stable (59powercat1400). This will be a sister boat to the Green Fantasy.

The Hull is a 63 Craig Craft Kit Cat.. a clone to the Viking SuperCat. The deck, from a Fantasy Cab over Hydro has had a few mild modifications.

Motors are 105's, with the short version counter rotating Chrysler Lower's.

Way to go Dick!!

[BBaron]

Here is a picture of the boat that won the 87or88 nationals at Kankakee Il. and the one on the left ran 2
thease are force motors on Bonneville exhaust housings that and the person who owned thease boats is from Texas and the drivers Roddey Forman
and Terry Strock and the blue boat was in the Chicago boat show that year

[brichter]

.....I'd appreciate any leads. Thanks!

[BBaron]

Check with clampon he may can help you as he is from the Austin Tx ares and also knows the people who owned them they may still have some parts but I don't know
Good luck

[Bob Rusnak]

Can anyone provide some info on Bonneville towers? I have one for a Chrysler and would like more info on them. What all did they make? When did they make them? Does anyone have more info on Chrysler racers than what is in the factory brocures? I have a 105 and a later one that was supposed to have been built my Mercury under the Force banner. Any info is welcome and greatly appreciated.
I attached a photo of a Chrysler Race engine at one of our local Eastern Outboard Racing Club racen in the the early 1070's. Interesting engine..Bob N-96

[brichter]

Check with clampon he may can help you as he is from the Austin Tx ares and also knows the people who owned them they may still have some parts but I don't know
Good luck
Thanks for the lead, I had already contacted him but too late. The ones he was selling are gone.

[brichter]

T-Rex knows how to make them go fast, but he's not a big historian.

Chrysler built racers from 1968 until 1976, ranging from 105 hp to 150 hp. Chrysler got out of the outboard business in 1983 when they sold the outboard stuff to an investment group that called itself "US Marine". I think US Marine sold out to Merc in the early 1990's. I've heard the Merc/Force racer rumor many times, but I very much doubt Merc had anything to do with any Force racer given the stretch of years between the Chrysler racers and the year Merc acquired Force.

There are a few simularities between the Chrysler racing lower unit and the McCulloch racing lower unit. This is because when McCulloch got out of racing in 1967 their racing R&D team became available and was picked up by Chrysler. The team consisted of Bob Kies, Jack Oxley and Danny Snead. I located and interviewed Kies and Oxley a few years back about their involvement with both companies. The early 105 Chyrsler racers just had the racing lower unit bolted on to a std short shaft powerhead. There were also racers badged as 120 and 135. Next they added the open megaphone exhaust and finally larger carbs, L-shaped piston rings and a higher compression ratio on the 150 hp racer. The early racing lower unit used a fat 7/8" prop shaft and couldn't use Merc Speedmaster props. The 150 type racing lower unit used the same splines on the prop shaft, but had more space between the shaft and exhaust outlet, so a larger diameter prop could be used compared to a Merc Super Speedmaster. There was also a 2" longer racing lower unit for bigger boats with taller transoms (the extra 2" is all under the cav plate). Chrysler never made a big splash in APBA OPC racing, but did very well in outboard drags, holding many speed records over the years.

The Bonneville mid sections were made by Bob Florian in California during the time Chrysler motors were popular and fast at the drag races. Bob also made short mids for 6 cylinder Mercs and 4 cylinder D Mercs; again popular with drag racers. The time frame was probably 1969 to 1972 for all Bonnies.

The Bonneville mids were intended to be used with Merc D clamps & swivel assemblies. The gear ratio is 17:15 (7% overdrive). There were optional 7% reduction gears, but they are very rare.

The most common ratio was the 15:14 (7% overdrive) and the much rarer 14:15 (7% underdrive). Strangely, there are also some units that were made with 19:18 gears (5% overdrive). I wonder why they would bother to make a second ratio that was so close to the standard one? Maybe the original ratio was 19:18 and later changed to the 15:14 to beef them up(???).

[Mark75H]

Strangely, there are also some units that were made with 19:18 gears (5% overdrive). I wonder why they would bother to make a second ratio that was so close to the standard one? Maybe the original ratio was 19:18 and later changed to the 15:14 to beef them up(???).

Kies strongly believed in alternate gear ratios and non-synchonized tooth ratios. The Mac's had many ratios and probably no matched tooth ratios.

A clue as to whether the 19:18 ratio was early or late would be whether the prop shaft was 7/8" or splined.

5% was probably to appease some racers that wanted a ratio closer to the Merc 1:1 ratio without going to 1:1.

1:1 gears wear out quicker than one tooth off ... after Carl was gone even Merc admitted this and change the Super Speedmaster to one tooth off.

[brichter]

Kies strongly believed in alternate gear ratios and non-synchonized tooth ratios. The Mac's had many ratios and probably no matched tooth ratios.

A clue as to whether the 19:18 ratio was early or late would be whether the prop shaft was 7/8" or splined.

5% was probably to appease some racers that wanted a ratio closer to the Merc 1:1 ratio without going to 1:1.

1:1 gears wear out quicker than one tooth off ... after Carl was gone even Merc admitted this and change the Super Speedmaster to one tooth off.
I had always thought it was the other way around, My reasoning is 1:1 gears always touch the same tooth so they will wear in to a tooth.
That is why you mark them before you take them apart.
When we ran the OMC V4s, we had a 1:1 that we put about 30 hours on and never had it apart. The 15:17 case lasted 3 hours and that was it.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

All I know is the "F" Konigs usually had a 1:1 and the "D"'s had 15:16. They were both so hard on lower units you counted by heats on them. Lost more races to a blown 1:1 than a 15:16.

[gyoung82]

I started racing in OPC in SST70, at the time, a local class that ran at the nationals, I believe in 98 with a Force outboard on a merc tower and gearcase and go a 2nd behind Forman that year against the modified OMC engines. Later went to a half v-six built by Mike Wienant who got me into tunnel boats with him and his brother Jerry. The boat was built by Sam Hemp and with the force outboard , I used to say it sounded like a big block garbage truck on steroids. The 70 class was a blast to race in and had a lot of fun when I raced. Was hurt seriously in a car wreck which took me out of the drivers seat but kept the boat in competition until the 70 class pettered out with the development of the series races which now dominate opc at this time. I feel that the change damaged opc racing because the little guy could no longer race locally. The Minisota group still has some local classes they race which are a blast to see and are affordable for newcomers to get started in opc. This group puts on a fantastic show for the spectators at their races. Presently I announce races in the Midwest and co-announced the OPC nationals in Kakkakee until it was discontinued this year. We have one more stock,mod and J-class race on Lake Koshconong in Wisconsin. Lakeview Campgrounds( 1901 E. Hwy 59, Milton, Wi. Entry fee is $10.00 a day PerClass/per day. Racing from11.00am until 5.00pm sat and sunday. Live music in the pits Friday and Saturday nites. Check out at bsoa.net Friday set up[ day. Come on out for a great race and lots 0f FUNat Lake Kosh Hydrofest.