An aluminum outboard hydro?

[smittythewelder]

There's a new fellow on the HR site, I don't think he has ever raced, who wants to weld himself up a 10' 6" aluminum outboard hydro to put a B Anzani on to get a fast ride around the lake and have something unusual. Best of luck to him on that project, but that's not what I'm asking about here.

It seems to me that someone said that there was a hydro that was all or mostly aluminum, whether a production boat or a one-off, that was raced in the early Fifties. In my hazy, mix-everything-up memory, the further part of this story was that this aluminum hydro served as the design for a plastic model outboard hydro (can you imagine such a thing?!!) that Monogram or somebody sold a lot of in hobby shops in the Fifties. I had one; the maker called it the "Dipsy Doodle," very nicely done, with its plastic KG4 or KG7 on the back. Wish I still had it.

Anybody know anything about any of that?

[champhotrod]

I believe there were Blue Star aluminum Hydros and racing utilities back in the fifties.
If you go through the old Boat Sports you can find some info on them. I have a photo of one of their runabouts

Cooper

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

My memory is in the stage where it goes in "fits & starts' these days, but if I am not mistaken I seem to remember a French driver at one of the UIM races at Dayton in the 80's that used an aluminum hydro. Don't know whether it was his and he brought it over, or borrowed from someone here although if that were the case I would think we would have seen it other places and races in that time frame.

Will send Wayne Baldwin an e-mail and see if he remembers it and whether he might have a photo.

[jon66w]

Blue Star Made a BU in the fifties and had a factory team that raced them with some success in Kansas. The boat was named of coarse "Rivets". If I remember the Driver was a Black Gentleman.

[ProHydroRacer]

My memory is in the stage where it goes in "fits & starts' these days, but if I am not mistaken I seem to remember a French driver at one of the UIM races at Dayton in the 80's that used an aluminum hydro. Don't know whether it was his and he brought it over, or borrowed from someone here although if that were the case I would think we would have seen it other places and races in that time frame.

Will send Wayne Baldwin an e-mail and see if he remembers it and whether he might have a photo.

It was at Dayton for a Worlds race that Baldy put on. The hydro was from France as I remembered and it had been run some over there. The boat already had some dings to it. It didn't fare so well as I remember.
Bill

[jrome]

Bill the hydro was from France . I have aphoto or two if I can find them.

[Gene East]

I know a guy in Florida who has an aluminum hydro.
He knows someone who has some Anzani contacts.
Don't know if this is the same guy or not.
I won't mention any names here, but the person I'm thinking of does more talking than doing.
I'm sure if this is the guy, he'll let me know what a worthless bastard I am.
That's alright, he knows I know he's a bull-****ter. Just took me a while longer than it should have to figure him out!
If there is a legitimate attempt to do this, I wish him luck!

[seacow]

Up in the Canadian Prairie Provinces in the 50s and 60s there were a few custom built all aluminum class D runabouts. Fenton Malley was one driver of a metal DU in competition and I think his son still has it. My recollection is that these folks worked for a Canadian Airline and that's how they were built. They were ultra-cool and did well in competition.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Pierre Deisertenne had an all aluminum hydro at the UIM World Championships at Dayton, Ohio in 1978. Bill Kurps is correct in what he says. I have photos of Pierre working on the bottom before the races, and other photos, just haven't had time to scan and post them yet. Pierre had some success racing in Europe, but I don't know if it was with the Aluminum hydro. Had one pic in my computer until it crashed last year. It is someplace here already on BRF. Probably in Random Shots of the Pits, but I will post it again and maybe others when I get a chance.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I know a guy in Florida who has an aluminum hydro.
He knows someone who has some Anzani contacts.
Don't know if this is the same guy or not.
I won't mention any names here, but the person I'm thinking of does more talking than doing.
I'm sure if this is the guy, he'll let me know what a worthless bastard I am.
That's alright, he knows I know he's a bull-****ter. Just took me a while longer than it should have to figure him out!
If there is a legitimate attempt to do this, I wish him luck!
Gene,
You are way too kind!!!!

[Gene East]

John,
Do you know who I'm talking about?

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

John,
Do you know who I'm talking about?
Without a doubt!!!Claims he worked for Chris & has the fastest 20h ever that with 1:1 gears can pull a 13 p prop.Funny though although I can picture his face I can't recall his name to post his initials. Wrote slander about me when I ran for VP AOMCI which was quickly taken down. Just remembered his last name the same as the former NASCAR driver they call the King.

[F-12]

MP???? Fastest sob in FL.....

[smittythewelder]

Pretty sure this is not that fella.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Pretty sure this is not that fella.
Smith, I believe this is him. He is also the same guy who took over Charlie Williams Classic Outboard site by default as Charlie couldn't bothered with all the bull

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

John/Gene/Charley:

Is the person you all are talking about the same guy that had all the Anzani info (photos,history) on BRF several years ago and the took it down in a snit because of perceived problems with either Ron or Sam or both?

[smittythewelder]

No, Bill, that was John Taylor. This poster on hydroracer says his name is Daniel King. His manner and style seem different than either Taylor or "Hurricane Mike".

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

No, Bill, that was John Taylor. This poster on hydroracer says his name is Daniel King. His manner and style seem different than either Taylor or "Hurricane Mike".



Thanks Smitty, I remember the name now that you have jogged my cells.

[gyoung82]

Refering to smittythewelder post about plastic outboard by monogram-I had one and a lindburg plastic hydro called the flash. I was based on Bud Wiget's Neal hydro but motor shown on the cover was a Allyn Sea Ray not the johnson of Wiget's. I put the K&B Allyn torpedo fury on it and had a ball at the Manteno,Il. races when I was a kid growing up. Also had the Sea Fury twin that I [put on a Van Pelt kit-actual shrunken plans of the rea big boats. I was maybe 13or14 at the time. Don't have them anymore and can't recall what happened to them. The Japanese made a sea horse .15 back then on a mark 55 looking lower unit.. I have a five foot gas powered Fountain powered by a modified Fuji airplane engine ,the maker of the .15 outboard mentioned. At my age now Im having a ball announcing boat races, helping my nephew with his DSH and gaining a strong interest in the antique group with Gibby Gibson and Jack Campbell here in the midwest. This is the first time I have posted on the internet and want to give a shout out to jerry wiendant, who took me under wing when I got into racing in DSH and the tunnel boats with his brother Mike. Also have been doing some boat racing paintings for some of the midwest racers. Had the Fountain out last part of 13 and hit over 70MPH breaking it in, Motor is just over a cubic inch. George young

[Master Oil Racing Team]

You joined awhile back George. Glad you finally posted. You got some stories to tell I can see, so don't stop now. We look forward to you chiming in on stock outboard, OPC or whatever you want to.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Pierre Deisertenne had an all aluminum hydro at the UIM World Championships at Dayton, Ohio in 1978. Bill Kurps is correct in what he says. I have photos of Pierre working on the bottom before the races, and other photos, just haven't had time to scan and post them yet. Pierre had some success racing in Europe, but I don't know if it was with the Aluminum hydro. Had one pic in my computer until it crashed last year. It is someplace here already on BRF. Probably in Random Shots of the Pits, but I will post it again and maybe others when I get a chance.



Wayne:

Have no idea whether this is the same person or not, but the spelling is very similar. A driver with a very similar name ran the Formula 1 tour that was on TV for several years recently and was from France, although a good number of years had passed since his Dayton adventures of course if it is/was the same driver.

[Danielking]

Hi everyone it seems some of you may think I'm somebody else. I'm a new member to this site from the Uk, I'm planning on building an all aluminium picklefork to run my anzani 350 racer on. I'm not planning on racing it just using for a bit of fun. I'm in need of some info on the sponsons and then I can get to work. I've been looking all over the net for some info but I can't seem to find anything😞. Hopefully one of you gentlemen can help me out. Many thanks all the very best Dan

[David Weaver]

Perhaps the lack of information as to aluminum hydroplanes (and relevant plans) is an indicator that one should consider a different direction. I would suggest wood and/or a wood composite mix. Keep it lighter, bouyant and easily repairable!!


Hi everyone it seems some of you may think I'm somebody else. I'm a new member to this site from the Uk, I'm planning on building an all aluminium picklefork to run my anzani 350 racer on. I'm not planning on racing it just using for a bit of fun. I'm in need of some info on the sponsons and then I can get to work. I've been looking all over the net for some info but I can't seem to find anything😞. Hopefully one of you gentlemen can help me out. Many thanks all the very best Dan

[smittythewelder]

Glad you showed up on this site, Daniel; when the speculation got going, I should have invited you here. Anyway, tell us first about your motor. Is it a gas-and-oil stocker, an all-out alky-burning racemotor, or what? This has considerable bearing on the advice you'll get. Are you going to try to build something exotic like a prop-riding hydro, some sort of tunnel-boat (which I think the Europeans call catamarans), or a standard "tail-dragger" hydroplane, which is what is used for pretty much all PRO racing over here? I take it you don't need much info on aluminum construction, and mainly want design pointers. That's good, because as you can see there isn't much current advice to be had on how to build a structurally adequate aluminum hydro that would still be acceptably light. The boats being built today, with various amounts of advanced composites, are astoundingly light, but since you are just building what we would call (with no intent of being demeaning) a "lake-racer" or "playboat," you don't have to achieve this degree of lightness. The weight of a hydro has to be balanced by the amount of lift it has, and that is basically determined by the shape of the bottom and its width, and the depth of the sponsons. David Weaver's advice is the practical approach, and if you build in aluminum you are exploring little-known territory, but if you enjoy being a bit of a contrarian, that's great. Just be aware that when any of the famous boat-builders attempt an out-of-the-mainstream design, even if they are confident in it they will say, "This might take me two tries, two boats, to make it work."

On your hydroracer thread you said you expected to need about a 10' 6" boat. If it were a plywood boat, and if your B Anzani is a sort of standard, single-carb alky burner with open pipes putting out around 45hp, that might be about right. One thing new guys don't know is that racers don't pay a lot of attention to overall length; for them the critical lengthwise dimension is "afterplane," the distance from the back edge of a sponson to the back edge of the bottom. For the posited Anzani of middling power, an afterplane of maybe 76" to 82" ought to be in the ballpark. On a plywood hydro of this size, the width of the bottom between the sponsons generally was in the 34-36" range. But this is where, if your aluminum boat is going to be over 150lbs, you'd want to be a couple of inches wider. Angle of attack of the aftmost 8" of the sponsons (relative to the aftmost two or three feet of the bottom (which is generally the reference line for everything else) should be around 1 1/2 degrees positive for a taildragger.

Daniel, my information on all of this is pretty ancient, and though I think it would work for you just because it used to work, others here will surely have their own ideas and those will be more current than mine. If you were hoping to find a set of plans (for a plywood hydro) from which you could extrapolate in building your aluminum boat, you could contact Darryl Sorenson in California. Or if you want a retro-looking round-bow hydro, try to find someone with an old set of plans from Ray Ogier in Canada; either his B/CSH Hydro at 10' 6" or his DSH hydro at 11' 2" could work well for you.

Best idea: go to a boatrace. Take your tape measure (but ask before you use it!).