Hi all, I would like to know details about the by-gone 20SSR class

[champ20B]

I always enjoy helping with info when I can, and now, I would like to learn more history on a couple of engines I have. I have a great Yamato-80 that I rescued. I will run it in "B" mod one day, win or lose, with just a modified gearfoot and prop-nothing else. I built a "killer fast" runabout that might give me some chance at doing well, hopefully. What I would like to know is about the old 20SSR boats. How did they run? I would like to know about how heavy they were and stuff racers tried. Did they run old phelon magneto Swanson/Champion hotrods here? If or if not, how late in the years were they(breaker-point style hotrods) raced and how did they do, (all speed-wise and wins)? What could they compare to in their later years.....1970s-1980s?

THANKS!!!

[Ron Hill]

In the spring of 1976 Tom Ige brought the Yamato 80 to SCOA's race at Brawley. He brought six of them and I thought he was "NUTS" to loan them out. But he bought about $500 worth of props from me, in cash, so I thought this guy might be OK.

By the end of the weekend he'd sold 3 or 4 motors. (They cost $318 including California state tax). Tommy Ige and I became very good friend over the next few years......

Fast forward: SoCal had: Bunker Hill, Dave Mayer, Joel Bronson, Mark Yunger Keith Yunger and about five others racing 20SS Runabout.

Ernie Dawe bwcamw Stock Outboard Chairman. His Commission convinced him that Stock Outboarding had too many classes and that B Runabout and 20 SS Runabout should merge. Trouble was, the 20-H could beat a 20 SS Runabout if it had one spark plug wire off. Once the classes merged 20 SS Runabout disappeared like a "POPCORN FART". This merger was a very dumb move on Ernie Dawe's part but is was done with the best interests in the sport. Ernie felt this was a good move. We all make mistakes. Wel maybe I don't!!!

[champ20B]

In the spring of 1976 Tom Ige brought the Yamato 80 to SCOA's race at Brawley. He brought six of them and I thought he was "NUTS" to loan them out. But he bought about $500 worth of props from me, in cash, so I thought this guy might be OK.

By the end of the weekend he'd sold 3 or 4 motors. (They cost $318 including California state tax). Tommy Ige and I became very good friend over the next few years......

Fast forward: SoCal had: Bunker Hill, Dave Mayer, Joel Bronson, Mark Yunger Keith Yunger and about five others racing 20SS Runabout.

Ernie Dawe bwcamw Stock Outboard Chairman. His Commission convinced him that Stock Outboarding had too many classes and that B Runabout and 20 SS Runabout should merge. Trouble was, the 20-H could beat a 20 SS Runabout if it had one spark plug wire off. Once the classes merged 20 SS Runabout disappeared like a "POPCORN FART". This merger was a very dumb move on Ernie Dawe's part but is was done with the best interests in the sport. Ernie felt this was a good move. We all make mistakes. Wel maybe I don't!!!

Yep, that's when "B" stock was really "B" 20cid motors. I've been trying to put rhyme to reason on this by research to see what not to do. I don't know if weight had anything to do with it, but if a 20H could whip a Y-80 that bad, even if it was a popper, it sounds like the Yamato was a pretty sorry performer for a looper for some reason (weight, prop height, or bulky hull?? maybe still using the low pitch Yamato 2-blade prop??). I know they recently took it out of 25SSR. Maybe it couldn't compete..... why?... What's weird though, is what success it has in "350cc Modified class" to this day....It holds every record in "B" MOD RUNABOUT currently.

The 25XS merc runs this class, but only has to do it at 395lbs. The 20 HotRod and 22 cid OMC runs 390lbs, and the 20cid mercs can still run "B"Mod at a low 370LBS with extensive blueprinting not allowed on other motors so it can keep up I suppose. The Yamato 80 has to run a whopping 415lbs and only gets to use a chamber to "supposedly" get more power, yet based on observation, that is questionable. I believe a streamlined gearcase is all it needs with a good prop. This is all referring to runabouts.....

I am just trying to get going for the future. Its a one time life list thing for me. But still, the technicalities as far as performance data, trying to see where I stand on engine quality and/or what crippled it is very confusing. On one hand its a great engine, then next thing a 1950s deflector piston antique could obliterate it in an instant, yet some highly mentioned champions still use it today. On the other hand, I read of 20SSH guys saying that the unrestricted 20S sidewinder can barely compete with it as it stands at equal weight. And what really puts the comedy in the mix is that the 20H popper is no more competitive than a little "A" mod where it is allowed in true stock (stock powerhead that is) form.... I don't think anybody runs these in "B" mod today, though they would be eligible.

Maybe somebody can put this in perspective to make sense of all this wacky stuff!! LOL!!

[champ20B]

I probably threw a lot of stuff out there.....But Ill be a bit more direct.

My little A/B runabout can hit the upper sixties in speed before entering a practice turn. That is a 2000-2500 ft straight away run.... I hope that's substantial for "B" mod.

I suppose that with a stock exhaust Y-80, I know what to do to make it run....but I was in a conversation about this with a friend today who is a collector, and Im a history nut!!!! I want to know what in this world was done wrong to get beat by a Mark 20H toilet.... I mean "COME ON GUYS!!"... A 30+ horse power looper with a true converging megaphone built in, with prramid reed valves ???..

How powerful was that little 20H popper, and why is it in a class slower than a 400lb 20SSH hydro today? That is where a "all stock Y-80" is run, still with the old club foot!!LOL!!

My head is spinning!!!! Call Bill O'Rielly to make it stop!!!!

[Ron Hill]

The Yamato 80 in stock form from Japan was a WONDERFUL motor. Bunker Hill and JT Snow once ran one of Tom Ige's 80's for five full days burning more than 5 gallons of gas a day. Then we raced that motor for two years without doing anything to it and Bunker was really never beaten in 20 SS Rnabout.

But we ran the motors stock. No blue printed ports. No shaped gearcases. Stock water pick ups required the propshaft to be about 1" below the bottom.


The speeds weren't blinding like B Runabout but B Runabout had died in SoCal so ten NEW racers with box stock motors was really quite exciting racing.

In this era the Mid Wurst was very anti Japanese. OMC and Mercury feared a Japanese invasion. The Region 7 Mercury boys led the charge to keep the Yamato out.

The 20-H was a "RACE MOTOR" with a Quickie tuned exhaust, beefed up crank rods, kit carb and flat top pistons.

The Yamato 80's were all almost equal until Dick Fickett started messing with them and then the Commission alowing MODs.

Combining B Runabout and 20 SS Runabout was by design to rid APBA of the 20 SS Runabout class. And it worked. No 20 SS Runabout driver in SoCal ever raced B Runabout after the rule change.

[champ20B]

The Yamato 80 in stock form from Japan was a WONDERFUL motor. Bunker Hill and JT Snow once ran one of Tom Ige's 80's for five full days burning more than 5 gallons of gas a day. Then we raced that motor for two years without doing anything to it and Bunker was really never beaten in 20 SS Rnabout.

But we ran the motors stock. No blue printed ports. No shaped gearcases. Stock water pick ups required the propshaft to be about 1" below the bottom.


The speeds weren't blinding like B Runabout but B Runabout had died in SoCal so ten NEW racers with box stock motors was really quite exciting racing.

In this era the Mid Wurst was very anti Japanese. OMC and Mercury feared a Japanese invasion. The Region 7 Mercury boys led the charge to keep the Yamato out.

The 20-H was a "RACE MOTOR" with a Quickie tuned exhaust, beefed up crank rods, kit carb and flat top pistons.

The Yamato 80's were all almost equal until Dick Fickett started messing with them and then the Commission alowing MODs.

Combining B Runabout and 20 SS Runabout was by design to rid APBA of the 20 SS Runabout class. And it worked. No 20 SS Runabout driver in SoCal ever raced B Runabout after the rule change.

Im learning stuff I didn't know!! Those B runabouts sound different that what I was thinking of. So the mercs were actually special built runners aside from a deflector piston engine.....Now I think the "what the heck happened" question is getting clear!! This is real interesting to me....

Did the yamato guys try running "C" boats against some 10-footers in this and could handling (rolling up a bigger boat) have played a part in the 20SSR demise against the "B" stockers?

Also, I sure would like to learn more about those "B" stockers in California back then....particularly those 20H build ups they ran!!

Thanks for the feedback.. this is cool stuff!

[Ron Hill]

A 20-H gear set was probably $100 and a Yamato 80 could be purchased complete AND COMPEITIVE for $318.

Most 20 SS Runabouts were run on OLD A Runabouts that could be bought for free...or new Zorkans. We built Bunker's boat called Fire and Ice. Bob Carlson, Art Carlson's son (Carlson Boats), painted super cool flames on it. Bunker was "FIRE" in 20 Runabout his sister, Georgie, was "ICE" in A Runabout.

When Bunker started racing 20SS Runabout I won't know have know where I could have purchased a 20-H. AND I know damn good and well getting a good one would have been close to impossible.

I personally sold more than 25 Yamato 80 for Tom Ige. Tommy sold them t me for $318 and I sold thme for $318. As I made my money on propeller sales.

I lost my impassioned speech to the Stock Outboard Commission requesting racing the BRASS Japanese prop. I told the Commission why sell people $250 propellers on a $318 motor???

The Stock Outboard Commission has always been smarter than me, I guess that is why I was never a Commissioner.

[Ron Hill]

I started Novice Hydro. A Yamato 80 with the Standard two blade Yamato prop. We probably had 12 Novices between Region 11 and Region 12.

At the APBA Nationals Meeting that year, the Stock Outboard Commission, voted to "DROP" Novice Hydro as a "Probationary Class".

The PRO Division decided that Novice Class would be good for them and they made it a class, except for two rule changes. Any TWO BLADE Propeller and no over all weight. This class MORPHED in OSY 400.

[champ20B]

I started Novice Hydro. A Yamato 80 with the Standard two blade Yamato prop. We probably had 12 Novices between Region 11 and Region 12.

At the APBA Nationals Meeting that year, the Stock Outboard Commission, voted to "DROP" Novice Hydro as a "Probationary Class".

The PRO Division decided that Novice Class would be good for them and they made it a class, except for two rule changes. Any TWO BLADE Propeller and no over all weight. This class MORPHED in OSY 400.

That's how OSY400 started!!! Awsome!!! That is one of the most popular outboard hydro classes from America to Europe if Im right......

Speaking of props that came with the motor, the one I have was chrome plated of all things!!! I thought it was a stainless prop, but the silver was deteriorated. I started sanding and working on it and discovered that it was brass/nibral or something. It is a two blade that is definitely correct to the motor. I had it stripped of the chrome or nickel, had it pitched to 12", had it cupped, polished, then I sharpened it and angle/edged the trailing edges. It turns out to be a surprisingly fast little prop job....for practicing. I'm running neutral at 3/4" depth.

There is some interesting history on this stuff. And you are part of these beginnings!!! That is awesome.... I really appreciate your sharing this....THANKS RON!!

[champ20B]

There is something else I remembered I wanted to ask about on Y-80 history......

(FORMULA-350) is something I have been wanting to know more about as well. There's not a lot of talk or literature on this one....
What exactly was that class? Was it a real PRO/ALKY category where Konig, Anzani, and Arens raced? I have heard bits and pieces about the Yamato-80 running here and doing well in it at the time. I heard though that the engine didn't like the lubrication used with methanol and had upper bearing troubles. I know that Yamato did make pro class engines with hatchet gearfoots and opposed engine blocks, but they really used a Yamato-80 in an alky class with success??? That is something I would like to know more about as well!!

About 25SSR..... I sure would like to find out exactly what the story is on the removal of the 80 in the last 3 or so years....
Imagine, having one motor (Y-80), one hydro, one runabout, and being able to run five categories in one gathering!!! One could do 20SSH, BMH, BMR, 25SSH,25SSR...
Now, it is just 20SSH, BMH, and BMR.... since it got booted from the 25 lineup.

[Ron Hill]

Too many questions here for me to understand.