Russ Hill's Epiphany on Boat Racing's Future

[Ron Hill]

My brother wrote this EPIPHANY several years back, and made me promise to only show it to the Hill Family. Well, my brother has passed on, but I feel his words need to be spread the future boat racers. Tana Moore felt this Epiphany might be more of an EPITAPH, both are about the same.

Recently Ade Bloomfield bought two Ever Crafts from Australia. These boat are class 6 Liter and are an approved UIM Class. State of the art boats, with DODGE Penske NASCAR motors and capsules. This is a class my brother would have embraced. There is a least one electric motor company actively supporting boat racing.

Here it is:

[Powerabout]

Russ was right that document doesnt need a date stamp is will be correct in any period

[oldalkydriver]

In the last fifty years or so, I've watch two sports (maybe I should say 2 hobbies) that I participated in ALL BUT DIE! In my pre-teen and adolescent years I lived, ate and breath Outboard Boat Racing. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't only boat racing, but more the social outing. Being from San Diego or (North Tijuana) I really looked forward to our weekend trips to the boat races. Most of our regions races were in the Los Angeles area, but included Bakersfield, Fresno, Kingsburg, Lodi and Sacramento. Notice I didn't say Family outing? As my sisters got older, they chose to stay home rather then travel. So most of my trips were with my dad, oldest sister and the neighboring San Diego participants. Wow, they were some good trips. Parker Arizona, Salton Sea, all nothing but memories. Even though I was raised in a racing family, my racing career was short by any ones standards. My oldest sister Peggy, raced 'M' hydro's. She ended up with Eric Mollenar's outfit. When she had enough of racing, I also got started in being a spectator on the water! Yup, that is what I called it. I don't see how any kid got experience in driving such a short distance? Russ, I think you would have to eliminate 'M's' if you wanted to run all races in a three hour time period. The only experience I got from an 'M' was pulling the rope, 60 lbs. bony frame out on the front of the hydro trying to get on a plane. Driving to the race coarse, then repeating everything. Those so call engines were better use as anchors, paper weights. 42MPH! When? Mine never got past run.

Then came the magic age of 12 and 'A' Hydro. WOW, now I'm really speeding. 51 MPH! Really moving. Putting all my driving expertise from 'M' Hydro to use. I was so shocked my first race in 'A'! I won. First place! Naturally it was my vast experience, but I don't remember ever having the lead. First heat I ran a respectful 4th place. The second heat, because of my start I was LAST! Only problem was everybody jumped the gun except me. I was more then a half lap down and that was before the start. Yup, won my first race in 'A' Hydro. My head was so big, I was ready for Nationals. Actually won my second race at Hansen Dam thanks to Glen Campbell. He put another rev stick on for me before the second heat. Ran 3rd first heat and lead from gun to gun in the 2nd heat. And you thought my head was big before? The rest of my racing before I joined the army was kind of a blur. Coming home from the service, with the injury to my left leg, I thought both of my hobbies were finished. I tried to race again, but my left leg had minimum flex ability. My skating career took a different turn. Although I couldn't preform as well in the artistic events, a pro taught me peed skating. And my career blossomed. Plus there were other boat racers involved. When I made nationals, there were the Smalls out of Florida. Although a lot younger then I, they were involved. I meant them and their dad the following year at roller nationals.

Which brings me to the disagreement I have with Juniors article. For me, when I was young it was the social event and racing. As I grew older and on my own it was joined by another factor, affordability. I bought my first outfit on my own from a guy in Merrietta Georgia. I worked for Atlanta Dairies Ice Cream Wholesale and that was my district. Ralph Donald sold me a 'A' Konig of which I knew nothing except they went fast. That only lasted a few races, then I was off to California again. I arrived back in California in 1968. It was the end of the racing season. So in '69, I hooked up with my dads old partner in racing and my mentor, John Toprahanian. I mostly pitted for him. When I had the cash, I bought a 'C' Racing Hydro and John helped me with the motor. Although my leg was getting better, it was still difficult for me to kneel. So in the early 70's, I just called it quits. My reasons were #1 my leg, #2 boats were just getting too fast for my comfort zone. If age wasn't a factor, now that I can more or less afford anything I want, I find myself longing for the noise of the 30's motors, the relative safe speed (60-75MPH), and the smell of the alkies. For me the difference between the stocks, alkies, and modified stocks. Alkies generally were 5mph faster then stocks. Loved their low level bellow for noise. Modified Stocks too loud on these old ears. So, I'm one of the people that are bad for racing as I loved what we had then. Even spectators could afford to buy in if they wanted. Just my personal limited feelings.

[Powerabout]

thats whats Russ is saying
Young people today look at a new 300 BRP and it looks good to them, how to get kids to race antique engines that they watched their grandfathers race.
Kneelers are an engine class for enthusiasts, that may be well and good and a great family activity but...
Who cares about Nascar engines, ( until recently also antiques) as they race the car not the engine.
IMHO boat racing also has to be a boat race and not an engine race.

There are more people that think they could drive a nascar than there are who think they can build a nascar engine for example, so if the 2nd point was a requirement for the first then the entry list will get very small

PS I do love the engineering that goes into kneeler engines...

[seacow]

I only spoke to Russ a few times and that was during the last year of his life. He had encyclopedic knowledge about all aspects of our sport. He was helpful, a clear thinker and a friendly person. Some of what Ron shared of his notes is what he told me. I was of the same mind years before before I started to talk with Russ and many of my BRF posts make many of the same points. I have some additional thoughts as well.

When I quit racing the main reason was infighting and acrimony that persisted for many years and got progressively worse amongst the driver groups in region 11 where I was living at the time. I think that the infighting took a big toll causing my quitting because when I quit I was racing three classes, mentoring 3 new drivers, was an APBA referee and race organiser and the past vice commodore of the local club. The kind of persistent infighting that turned me off still goes on in APBA and its clubs, no matter what the cause. For example it grieves me to see the ranks of the Crackers so splintered.

I tried to return to racing and still consider it and although I remain an avid spectator I still have some resistance about a return. Part of it is due to my age, I admit. Here is my list for outboards: infighting, no electric starting, no seats, too few competitors, antiquated technology, expense, to many remote race locations, courses are too long and wide and not close to spectators in many cases, excessive speeds in the larger classes and safety.

My attempt to return to racing a few years ago was to my mind a fiasco. For my tastes and concerns it seemed like Sport C was perfect. Several region 11 drivers recommended one rig as an available fairly priced and competitive. I purchased it. I tried to compete at Cooperopolis. Folks were very helpful. Ron loaned me a great wheel, RJ helped me with setup and someone else loaned me a helmet. Darryl helped by storing my rig. The first heat I did not get started because I failed to know or remember to open a gas tank vent. By the second heat I was unconscious from sunstroke with some longer term health problems from the 105 degree heat.

I was prepared to continue my return to racing in Sport C irrespective of my flawed re-debut. Then I learned the truth: the rig that everybody had recommended to me was not legal. It had been ported beyond APBA specs and everyone that recommended it to me knew it but never told me. Then I learned that they all had done the same thing to be competitive but some had truly stock power-heads just to go to races where they were sure to be inspected. The leader in the class had sent his motor back east for $5,000 of legal rebuilding in this supposedly "stock" class. It was the lack of honesty of the drivers particularly from those who encouraged me to buy the rig, the sham of calling it a stock class and finally the fact that all Sport C races were in Norcal and I lived in SoCal that prompted me to withdraw from racing a second time. After that I strongly considered reentry again in COR but there were problems for me in that class. I was not comfortable for what seemed to be dangerously high straightaway speeds for open cockpits. I also noted that the winning rigs required an investment north of $12,000. Finally to win, one could not buy a whole motor but had to find and piece together a professionally prepared 120 competition motor to a club foot.

I have a few more notes to share.

I enjoyed old alky racer's post very much. It takes me back to those great old alky races. I agree about the thrilling noise. I loved watching the FRRs that were so very exciting. Their deep-throated growl. One point of disagreement about his comments about M hydro. In the early days, as slow as they were spectators loved the class because it was populated by a rarity in those days: women drivers. THe races in the 50s and 60s were fun for the social and camping aspects despite the infighting aspects.

I like the 6 litre boats that Marlee helped bring to Long Beach. I agree that they could be the future for big inboards for those who can afford the price. Their engines are big bore and they are not a big bore in competition. Like everyone else I love seeing the K boats in action and the 6 litre class seems almost as exciting and a bit safer when I consider that half the K boats are flat bottoms and many still don't have capsules. I thrill and cringe every time the un-capsuled Ks are in a heat.

For safety and good looks I like the idea of fiberglass factory-built v shaped like the aussies small displacement outboard and inboard jet classes. Sorry about that, Ron.

Although his post has focused upon many things that need changing in boat racing I point to one bright spot. Here in region 12 many races are well run and a spectators dream. They surpass most of the events that I have spectated at or participated in since I was a lad in 1955. Although good heats well populated by enough drivers are rare, very few people across the US and for all of racing history have been witness to the thrill of the Crackerboxes and the modern K boats.

Even though they were too fast and hard to put together for me the COR racing has been superb bright spot in outboards right up until the accident. The Long Beach course has excellent spectator attendance and is wonderful and exciting for spectators to view. San Diego is from time to time racing nirvana. Where else in the US, the entire world or throughout history can you see outboards, inboards, unlimiteds, pwcs, drags and ocean racers at one event on a course in a major city next to a beautiful 2500 acre park next to the ocean with 30 to 50 thousand spectators?

I still am waiting to drive in that truly stock, out of the box, affordable, easy to buy new, sit-down, electric starting, not too fast, well populated, inboard or outboard racing class in a club with sellers that do not deceive with a sanctioning body and club that is not in constant turmoil and conflict. That is a tall order and expecting too much, I know. Never-the-less I hope it comes in my lifetime for me to drive in or at least to watch if age catches up with me.

[champ20B]

There are some good points here....

Being that I am totally new, the only reason I was able to get my kneeler runabout rig going is because I am a absolute "wizard" when it comes to clamp on outboards of old. Also, I am highly proficient and experienced when it comes to building plywood or any other kind of boat (a family thing). There aren't many people that would be able to do what I could do in those respects. It would likely be intimidating for many folks of my (later generation) to try and tackle the obscure and little known world of kneeler outboard racing from raw materials, reviving and tuning an old engine to race like new, and knowing the tools and hardware to get it all together with. I guess I'm a rare one.

But since this 6 litre class is a new wave that was mentioned, I believe that this would only be a "high stakes professional" class. Guys, just the engine alone would be over $50,000.00.......trust me, I know. And furthermore, you cannot build these engines yourself. These aren't vamped up 360 cubic inch small-block mopars here. These engines are very unique. They have a strange offset rocker arm arrangement. The block is a one of a kind. You could only get them from an outfit like (Petty Enterprise) just to name one. How many average people do you know that could or really would pour that kind of money into such a boat as these are? Remember, just the motor is worth over $50,000.00.....and it is probably not openly available to just anyone in America. You likely have to be a bonified race car team owner just to get one, otherwise NASCAR would probably have a raging fit about it. I cant imagine how the builder of these boats is able to do this (getting these engines), but they are putting them together so far. Never the less, this isn't going to work for regular guys at all as I fore-see it.

[champ20B]

There are some good points here....

Being that I am totally new, the only reason I was able to get my kneeler runabout rig going is because I am a absolute "wizard" when it comes to clamp on outboards of old. Also, I am highly proficient and experienced when it comes to building plywood or any other kind of boat (a family thing). There aren't many people that would be able to do what I could do in those respects. It would likely be intimidating for many folks of my (later generation) to try and tackle the obscure and little known world of kneeler outboard racing from raw materials, reviving and tuning an old engine to race like new, and knowing the tools and hardware to get it all together with. I guess I'm a rare one.

But since this 6 litre class is a new wave that was mentioned, I believe that this would only be a "high stakes professional" class. Guys, just the engine alone would be over $50,000.00.......trust me, I know. And furthermore, you cannot build these engines yourself. These aren't vamped up 360 cubic inch small-block mopars here. These engines are very unique. They have a strange offset rocker arm arrangement. The block is a one of a kind. You could only get them from an outfit like (Petty Enterprise) just to name one. How many average people do you know that could or really would pour that kind of money into such a boat as these are? Remember, just the motor is worth over $50,000.00.....and it is probably not openly available to just anyone in America. You likely have to be a bonified race car team owner just to get one, otherwise NASCAR would probably have a raging fit about it. I cant imagine how the builder of these boats is able to do this (getting these engines), but they are putting them together so far. Never the less, this isn't going to work for regular guys at all as I fore-see it.

Correction: I looked and found that one can buy these engines. But they aren't cheap at all. You can get an old surplus dodge NASCAR motor in the $8000.00-$15000.00 dollar range if you want to chance it. It would likely be well worn though and not a winner at all. This would be costly or very chancy altogether.

[Powerabout]

Maybe the class needs a crate engine and someones marinising kit and then bingo, mail order race boat.

[smittythewelder]

I don't understand why your brother would not have wanted these ideas put up for discussion. We're all sorry he isn't still with us (and able to argue for his ideas).

I gather that Russ' racing was mostly or entirely done in the Stock and Outboard (PRO) divisions, and that these are the divisions he wanted changed and "modernized."

But it seems to me that another APBA division, Outboard Performance Craft (in my day, Outboard Pleasure Craft) already offers everything he is advocating: a range of dealer-available motors and boats that can be put together in turn-key configurations for new racers. Looking at the APBA website, the OPC division already offers half a dozen entry-level possibilities that are just what Russ seemed to be asking for. Turn-key racing of production boats was why the OPC division was created fifty-some years ago. So why should the Stock/Mod/PRO divisions be changed to versions of what OPC does already? For that matter, if Russ' "computer geeks, lawyers, and mailmen" want dealer-available turn-key powerboat racing, there is also jet-ski racing (for the mailmen?) and Offshore (for the lawyers and the more successful computer geeks!!).

Seattle Outboard recently ran a local club race with eliminations in four or five classes, with 24 C Stock hydros, which would suggest that Russ' "old junk" hasn't lost its appeal for a lot of folk. Are local OPC races seeing eliminations in several classes? Would not the practical test of Russ' ideas be that the dealer-available OPC classes be hugely popular and growing?

[champ20B]

As far as stock, mod, and especially that called PRO......there are plenty of new engines available now for any of them. You have Sidewinder, Tohatsu 50, Yamato, and the J/A Mercury. There are four brands of engines available for PRO that I know of. The fact that old stuff is still run as well does make it possible for the more financially challenged beginners. I couldn't have built mine if I had to shell out over 1500.00 total for my engine. And come to think of it, most people interested in this are either gearheads, or potential gearheads. There are very few folks of the non competitive nature who would even be interested at all.

[Ron Hill]

My son, Chad, will be 38 this year. He attended his first boat race at the age of one week. He started racing BMX when he was 4 1/2 in the 5 and under class. He raced J runabout and hydro, A runabout and hydro....winning Winter Nationals in JSR, JSH and ASH. He raced 45 SS at 16, and Formula One at 18. He was Rookie of the Year on the P.R.O.P Tour 1997. He race 45 SS for several years, he's won the Parker Enduro three times, once overall, twice as a class winner.

Boat racing has been a large part of our lives, but Chad decided he wanted to give "OFFROAD" a shot.

I looked at the rules for his class and had a hard time believing them. They suggested you buy an Eco-Tech Chevy off E-Bay that had at least 60,000 miles. You then pay $1,400 for and EFI, and $500 for a header, and $600 to get you motor "Sealed". A motor on E-Bay cost $800.

So, off we go to the races: 12 classes, 220 cars. $10 to entry the pits of the weekend. Nice grand stands. 5,000 spectators and participants, people ride their quads, Rhinos and dune buggies everywhere.

Each class gets five qualifying laps. When qualifications are over, they give you a print out of everyone's times. Chad's class had 10 cars, Chad was 9th fastest.

Chad's race was 14 laps, as was all classes races. At lap 7, they toss a yellow flag, and bunch the field for the the last 7 laps. It is like two heats, except, it doesn't take all day to run them.

12 classes were run, on schedule. Racing was done at 5:00.

A couple of classes that I thought were cool as hell, Trophy Kart...kids 8-12, 22 entries....sealed motors, also. Th second class I really liked was S-1000. (Stock 100 CC Polaris 2015 model)....There were 33 vehicles in this class. At one time there were four upside down and one in the dry river along side the course. 3 finished. Cost of these 2015 S-1000 is $22,000 plus $6,000 worth of safety equipment. The good thing about an S-1000, is you can drive it on the desert when you aren't racing.

It became very clear to me, that every class had rules that were not written by the drivers. The rules were written by someone or a group who knew what it would take to equalize competition.

We were home from the race in less than an hour. So, this weekend, there is a race at Lake Elsinore, 60 miles from her and a boat Race at Lake Ming, 200 miles from here.....

Lucas Oil owns MAV-TV, any boat racing organization ever go to Lucas and ask them what they might like? I know Geoff Archer of Twisted Liquid Marine, has Junior Drag Boats lined up with Lucas for 2015. This seems like a great step in the right direction.

Dacati Motorcycle contacted me about a motor with 175 HP....I said, "Sorry, no interest."

Best part of the car races for me, we had the motorhome there, and 9 vehicles parked randomly...and no one bitched us out for parking like we did. We had family, neighbors, friends....grand kids, old farts, kids...all having a great day at the races.

Come to Lake Elsinore this weekend end and join us (March 7-8, 2015).

http://www.jlacyphotos.com/ShortCourseRacing/2015-Lucas-Oil-Regional-Round-/Pro-Buggy/i-zskpCjJ

[oldalkydriver]

Hi Ron, I know that we were raised around different types of boat racing. I'm not too good at expressing my feelings, but I'm going to try here. I attended a few stock races in my day. Never drove a stock class, however I did pit for a few. And when the races were in San Diego, I did work for the club. As for me, I liked the 'alky's'. Not only the noise, but the smell of the burnt fuel. Ultimately what drug me to the races were my father, and the diffent families. Yup! My look forward day was heading to the races to see my friends and their families. I couldn't afford much while a teenager because of money. After my Army days, I had enough money to buy my own outfit. I purchased an 'A' Konieg from a guy in Georgia. Around the Atlanta area. I also meant Ralph Donald from Merrietta at the time. He happen to live on a road that I wholesaled a grocery store, Atlanta Dairies Ice Cream.

I soon realized that not only didn't I make enough money to support my habit, being raised around alkies, I had no idea of how to fix this engine. In late '68, I had an offer to work in a casino at Lake Tahoe, so sold everything and headed West. I get back to familar stomping grounds and start attending the races. After all, my dream was to race 'C' Hydro and Runabout. Problem was, I only weight 160 lbs. I had to add dead weight to either class. I was also too light for Torprahanian's 'F', which was my extreme dream.

Getting back to my main topic: you do remember the puddle and the TV show? You also remember how many spectators they drew? The thing was a spectator could fall in LOVE with racing and buy a competitive outfit for less then $500. I know, I know, gas was also under a quarter. Racing is a team effort. It takes everyone to promote a race.

A fan or spectator looks for several things: affordability, can he/she do it?, safety, mentors to help, excitement, being able to involve friends. I know once I married and had a kid, the automatic fear factor set in. It was no longer just me. It was my family. Truth be know, I was comfortable with speeds in the 60's mph range. Okay with the low 70's. But when they got higher, common sence for me set in. I have to work the rest of my life to support my family. Divorce fixed part of the problem, but I could not over come the thought that boats were now going faster then what I was comfortible with.

I went to Alexandria, LA. in '76 with Toprahanian. We were there on a Thursday so we could test and set up. So John drove, and I rode. We took an unexpected bath. John hurt his right hand. We changed motors, and I drove, he rode. Another bath! We couldn't understand it. It was the same setup George May always drove for Lake Ming. Friday, John tried out 4 or 5 drivers. All ended up in the drink except Ralp Donald and I believe it was the Kirts brothers. However, he did not want the deck rider to cross in front of him, so they sat abreast. Not Good!

At the hotel that night John decided to go with his 'second' fastest setup and Ralph Donald. Good races, but I witness lots of 'upside downers' and people getting hurt. That convienced me that racing had become too fast for me as well as expensive.

My thoughts for a solution? Slow the classes down for most, find inexpensive motors and boats, and go back to basics. Promote, promote, promote. These days with 80 plus cable channels running 24/7 it could be too difficult to spark interest for a channel and spectators.

For me, I miss the sound of PR's, smell of burnt fuels and the comfortable speeds. Just my view.

[Ron Hill]

Hi Ron, I know that we were raised around different types of boat racing. I'm not too good at expressing my feelings, but I'm going to try here. I attended a few stock races in my day. Never drove a stock class, however I did pit for a few. And when the races were in San Diego, I did work for the club. As for me, I liked the 'alky's'. Not only the noise, but the smell of the burnt fuel. Ultimately what drug me to the races were my father, and the diffent families. Yup! My look forward day was heading to the races to see my friends and their families. I couldn't afford much while a teenager because of money. After my Army days, I had enough money to buy my own outfit. I purchased an 'A' Konieg from a guy in Georgia. Around the Atlanta area. I also meant Ralph Donald from Merrietta at the time. He happen to live on a road that I wholesaled a grocery store, Atlanta Dairies Ice Cream.

I soon realized that not only didn't I make enough money to support my habit, being raised around alkies, I had no idea of how to fix this engine. In late '68, I had an offer to work in a casino at Lake Tahoe, so sold everything and headed West. I get back to familiar stomping grounds and start attending the races. After all, my dream was to race 'C' Hydro and Runabout. Problem was, I only weight 160 lbs. I had to add dead weight to either class. I was also too light for Torprahanian's 'F', which was my extreme dream.

Getting back to my main topic: you do remember the puddle and the TV show? You also remember how many spectators they drew? The thing was a spectator could fall in LOVE with racing and buy a competitive outfit for less then $500. I know, I know, gas was also under a quarter. Racing is a team effort. It takes everyone to promote a race.

A fan or spectator looks for several things: affordability, can he/she do it?, safety, mentors to help, excitement, being able to involve friends. I know once I married and had a kid, the automatic fear factor set in. It was no longer just me. It was my family. Truth be know, I was comfortable with speeds in the 60's mph range. Okay with the low 70's. But when they got higher, common sence for me set in. I have to work the rest of my life to support my family. Divorce fixed part of the problem, but I could not over come the thought that boats were now going faster then what I was comfortible with.

I went to Alexandria, LA. in '76 with Toprahanian. We were there on a Thursday so we could test and set up. So John drove, and I rode. We took an unexpected bath. John hurt his right hand. We changed motors, and I drove, he rode. Another bath! We couldn't understand it. It was the same setup George May always drove for Lake Ming. Friday, John tried out 4 or 5 drivers. All ended up in the drink except Ralp Donald and I believe it was the Kirts brothers. However, he did not want the deck rider to cross in front of him, so they sat abreast. Not Good!

At the hotel that night John decided to go with his 'second' fastest setup and Ralph Donald. Good races, but I witness lots of 'upside downers' and people getting hurt. That convienced me that racing had become too fast for me as well as expensive.

My thoughts for a solution? Slow the classes down for most, find inexpensive motors and boats, and go back to basics. Promote, promote, promote. These days with 80 plus cable channels running 24/7 it could be too difficult to spark interest for a channel and spectators.

For me, I miss the sound of PR's, smell of burnt fuels and the comfortable speeds. Just my view.

Chad and I were talking about speed. One thing we noticed about the times the Lucas Oil Regional Racers gave us, it was in seconds, not MPH. We don't know how long the track is but we do know it takes about a minuted to get around the track. I know Chad's Buggy o n flat ground will go like hell, but the track has three left turns, one right turn about 10 jumps. Chad and decided he may not be going much faster than 50....but who cares, everyone is going fifty. The reason I like 36 Runabout was it went about 50 MPH and could run in any kind of water. I think Wayne Baldwin figured the speeds jumped abut 10% in two years at DePue, and participation dropped about 20%.

I raced A Racing Runabout and held the kilo record of 70 MPH. To make weight, I ran a 90 pound DeSilva A Stock boat of Max McPeeks. Jim Schoch a Quincy factory driver, blew his A Runabout over at DePue, and the next year the Commission did away with weights. Pro Buggy has a weight of Car and driver, something NASCAR needs.

I was third in the 1956 A Stock Runabout Nationals at 35 MPH, today and A Stock runs about 55 MPH...Anyone, can drive a 35 MPH boat, few can drive a 55 MPH boat.

[champ20B]

Speaking of auto racing, almost anything "circle track" is gonna be peppered with rules and spec limits/parts compliances. That's why I enjoyed the Pure Stock Drag-racing scene. Its nothing big, just local saturday night fun. Here one can run a stock production muscle car. Cruise on sunday, drive it to the store Monday, put on slicks and pump up the shocks to race week-end. If you get tired of it, sell it to anyone whether they race or just like a true performance vehicle. Its been a long while since my friends and I done this though, but in my experience I ultimately found that the 440 chysler big-block is a real hard hitting engine off the cuff. The L-34 and L-78 (396 c.i.d) chevy is a hellcat too, but it likes a bit of throttle as it is a breather like the 426 hemi. It was Just a little bit less though in 1/4 mile than a 426. But one engine that could beat the Hemi or equal it "stock for stock" was a 455 buick stage one. However, I learned by trying it, that a 1968 Cadillac 472c.i.d is an absolute freakishly powerful engine. It is set up like a 455 stage one as far as its factory 10.5:1 compression and camming, but it is a unique design all of its own. It was my little secret for a while till modern hot-rodders have lately caught on to them. Those 1968-70 caddy 472-500 engines were surprisingly light (only 80 lbs heavier than a small block chevy) due to alloy castings, but are super tough and massive. You have to shoe-horn it into a 68 chevy C-10 custom sport stepside (one of my rigs). It would give you way over 400hp (underated at 375) and over 540 ft lbs at 3000rpm. It is a axle twister!! but I recommend 440 dodge and a (472 caddy powered custom job).

My thing was custom sport factory muscle trucks!! And yep, they made specialized trucks before the chevy SS-454 truck or F-150 Lightning and dodge SRT-10 were ever a thought.

-1970 C-10 shortbed, custom sport (CST), 396 c.i/350hp, 4-spd rock crusher trans, 12-bolt rear.

-1968 C-10 stepside, CST package, (1968 casting) 472cid Cadillac engine, 3spd TH400 trans, 12-bolt posi, auto adjustable rear air load shocks.

-Dodge 150 stepside, WARLOCK with bucket seats, 440cid (all six-pack build except that it is a carter 4bbl 780cfm), 727 trans, aluminum mopar turbine wheels, side gate pipes instead of smoke stacks........You get the picture!!

[boatmark59]

Russ made some very valid points. But from my perspective it is only half the question. We need good, clean, readily available, user friendly equipment. And most importantly we need somewhere to race it on a regular basis. We to be able to show new people they are going to get a lot of fun time racing their investment.

I was an OPC guy from South Florida. If we use 1980 as an illustration point, living in Ft. Lauderdale we could run (counting from memory) about 10-12 weekends a year within a four hour drive of home. Add to that two long weekends going to the nationals, and you had a pretty full racing year. Cost of entry was manageable - I think my parents had $3500 invested in my E-Production rig. (Allison / 75 Johnson - all less than two years old when we got it). Perfect for a family new to racing, since it was all about set-up, props, and driving - the equipment was bone stock, new, and trouble free. Boat counts were strong - 4am on a race weekend Saturday the Dunkin Doughnuts parking lot filled up with 7-10 rigs ready to caravan to wherever we were racing, and that was us guys from Lauderdale.

Now when I want to get back into things, the world has changed. Advances in safety have all but killed club racing in OPC. I have lost enough friends to applaud the advances, but it means that getting into a class with good race counts and boat counts means going series racing. Those four hour runs to one and two day races are now 16+ hour runs that require four and five day weekends. The equipment is no longer available new, so equipment has to be pieced together, and there are a lot of questions in some of the appealing classes about how "stock" the stock powerheads really are. So how much equipement is necessary to run competitive in different venues.

Bottom line is the chicken or the egg. Is the issue the antiquated equipment scaring people away, or is it the inability to get much racing out of the equipment, be it old or new? I can see where the old equipment would scare someone new from diving in, but even accepting the issues of piecing together equipment, for me it is weighing the costs of jumping back into the sport I love, with how much racing can I do every year after spending the money.

I don't have a solution. And I know we can't go back to the past. But if going boat racing means very little racing is available, like the Hill family I may be looking at other forms of motorsports . . . . and that is a sad thing. I am after all, a BOAT racer.

[Ron Hill]

I was having lunch with my son, Greg Foster and my step son Alex. It was Alex's 25th birthday yesterday. He is taking a little time off before he start USC Medical School in July. We have two Pro Buggies, one we bought from Foster. Foster is building a new enclosed trailer to carry two F1 boat for this season. Greg has been looking for some S-3000 powerheads and Number IV Speedmasters. Rumor has it, Mercury has four NEW S-3000 powerheads at $12,000 each and if you order #4 Speedmasters, they will make a run of them soon, at $9,600 each.

I told Greg I might go to Valleyfield and Bay City to watch him run, but that was it. I said, I really enjoyed the Lucas Regional races and can't wait for this weekend's race. Greg said, "Lucas Regional racing is like boat racing used to be."

Chad's at the races today, there were 220 cars at the last event, in 12 classes. Chad says there are a lot more people, cars, motorhomes at this race.

After lunch, my step son said, you worked on Greg Foster's props when he was 17???? Almost 40 years ago? I said, "Yes, Greg and I became friends over a prop.

Greg was 17 year old driving an E Flat Bottom, a rich kid from Newport Beach. He came into my shop and asked if I could fix his prop? (It had my name on it)...I asked, "How did you bend just one blade?" He said, "I was going down the freeway and hit a bump." I said, "You didn't take your race prop of to go down the road??" Greg asked if I could have it by tomorrow as he wanted to go to Black Lake in Washington.

The next day Greg show up at the shop with a check in his shirt pocket. He asked if the prop is done? I say, "Yes." He says, "How much?" I say, how much do you have? He reaches in one pocket an pulls about about 22 bucks, I say what's in your other pocket??? He say, "I have a check." I say what's in your other pocket? He has about 20 bucks and some change...I say, "Give me all YOUR money." He says, "I'll write you a check for $150." I say, "No I want all your money, not your dad's money."

Until a couple of months ago, that prop hung in Greg shop...He's loaned it out to some SE Flat Bottom friend, but that was the start of a friendship Greg and I have today. He learned I wasn't about money, I was about propellers.

My point bookmark59, was the same as yours: You can spend a couple hundred thousand and race F1 because there really isn't any local racing, You can't buy new equipment. Offroad racing is one hour from our house. If I decide to buy an 201 RXR Fox, S-1000 Polaris, I could be racing in a week, along with 33 other racers.

[champ20B]

I was having lunch with my son, Greg Foster and my step son Alex. It was Alex's 25th birthday yesterday. He is taking a little time off before he start USC Medical School in July. We have two Pro Buggies, one we bought from Foster. Foster is building a new enclosed trailer to carry two F1 boat for this season. Greg has been looking for some S-3000 powerheads and Number IV Speedmasters. Rumor has it, Mercury has four NEW S-3000 powerheads at $12,000 each and if you order #4 Speedmasters, they will make a run of them soon, at $9,600 each.

I told Greg I might go to Valleyfield and Bay City to watch him run, but that was it. I said, I really enjoyed the Lucas Regional races and can't wait for this weekend's race. Greg said, "Lucas Regional racing is like boat racing used to be."

Chad's at the races today, there were 220 cars at the last event, in 12 classes. Chad says there are a lot more people, cars, motorhomes at this race.

After lunch, my step son said, you worked on Greg Foster's props when he was 17???? Almost 40 years ago? I said, "Yes, Greg and I became friends over a prop.

Greg was 17 year old driving an E Flat Bottom, a rich kid from Newport Beach. He came into my shop and asked if I could fix his prop? (It had my name on it)...I asked, "How did you bend just one blade?" He said, "I was going down the freeway and hit a bump." I said, "You didn't take your race prop of to go down the road??" Greg asked if I could have it by tomorrow as he wanted to go to Black Lake in Washington.

The next day Greg show up at the shop with a check in his shirt pocket. He asked if the prop is done? I say, "Yes." He says, "How much?" I say, how much do you have? He reaches in one pocket an pulls about about 22 bucks, I say what's in your other pocket??? He say, "I have a check." I say what's in your other pocket? He has about 20 bucks and some change...I say, "Give me all YOUR money." He says, "I'll write you a check for $150." I say, "No I want all your money, not your dad's money."

Until a couple of months ago, that prop hung in Greg shop...He's loaned it out to some SE Flat Bottom friend, but that was the start of a friendship Greg and I have today. He learned I wasn't about money, I was about propellers.

My point bookmark59, was the same as yours: You can spend a couple hundred thousand and race F1 because there really isn't any local racing, You can't buy new equipment. Offroad racing is one hour from our house. If I decide to buy an 201 RXR Fox, S-1000 Polaris, I could be racing in a week, along with 33 other racers.

I did the off road stuff when I was a kid till I was about 15. But I took the easy route.....MOTORCYCLE and a FOUR WHEELER ATV!! But I always thought that those mud/dune-buggies were pretty neat too! I never drove one of those. Pretty much any motorsport on land will be more inviting though, than boat racing could ever be. Many people in general aren't as comfortable in a boat on water as they are in a car (a common everyday means of travel and way of life). And anything raced on land is likened to cars or bikes (something most people are accustomed to).

Basically, one cannot truly compare auto sports to boat racing. These are two different worlds that are as different as a bird is to a fish.