56er six pack build

[Fast Fred]

this is the block to be used, solid mold bridge port.:cool:

[David_L6]

Dang Fred, you couldn't find a block in better shape?

[sharpeye Mike]

Document us a build on that motor Fast Fred, from start to finish, after all it's going to be another long winter.
P.S. Did you find it at the bottom of Chesapeake Bay? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Fast Fred]

she was a hard worker, she'll clean up just fine, be a looker...................

[Fastjeff57]

We used to call power heads like that "submarines". But, like the man said, it's gonna be a loooong winter (dang it!)

Jeff

[Fast Fred]

ok then, i've tryed to buy a good used cases, got told for 400 bucks you get what you get and thats what you get. so no sale. i've used new, but the cost is big, and in the end i don't think the customer was happy because of the over all cost. any ways once cleaned and .020 over she will be at a good fees-able cost . rules to be followed - what ever i feel like. the goal- to make as much HP as there is to make , to run with and /or by a 31M-FT

[sharpeye Mike]

Cool, keep us up to date on the build Fred.
I have an 87 block on the bench that I will tackle this winter, got a home made SST60 tuner, 15" mid., Pro 50 swivel bracket with trim and nitro gear case to play with.

[Fast Fred]

been soakin the case for a wile, goin to setup a straight in power head (56er) on a SST/ FT / Stinger mid, tray and hood. see what that looks like, see what i gots to do to make it fit..............

[sharpeye Mike]

Any progress Fast?

[Fast Fred]

roundin up all my parts still, did get some good notes off a thred hear, see if she will 9000 and hold it, sittin next to it on a tiller

[Fast Fred]

first problem to over come is the bracket, :cool:,

[wtsjr66]

Fred, do you know where I can buy a intake manifold for the angled mod 50 front half? Thanks

[Hevi Kevi]

first problem to over come is the bracket, :cool:,

Hey Fred - Do you have that block sitting on a 49ci adapter plate for mocking it up or a 56? Not sure how much extra you need but if it's sitting on the 49 plate now, you'll gain about 5/16" clearance if you run a stock style 56ci adapter plate... Only reason I say that is from the pics it looks too short to be a 56 plate

[75luva]

Hey fred do you have anymore straight fronts ?

[Fast Fred]

i would think Sea way would have some on the shelf. you can buy this one but you have to take the whole thing, when i'm done. with my standard warranty witch reads " you buy it you own it , no matter what it brings, and this agreement stands no matter of law ect.............

goin to change the bracket

[Mumat]

I know this is a bit early do you have any plans on porting and the cast in exhaust passages? I'm interested in how this turns out.

[Fast Fred]

it's not to early, it's best to have a plan. i will install the Straight-in port map. the exhaust will stand as it is. i've heard of Dyno tails of 115hp out of an SST 60 with stock carbs and no finger ports. not seein it. 110-115 hp is were i think she will end up, not seein the sst60 makin more than 100hp with finger ports............

[Fast Fred]

see about puttin a copy of that map up, then yous can in stall it in one of your own

[Hevi Kevi]

see about puttin a copy of that map up, then yous can in stall it in one of your own

Would be nice to see that. Fred, you mentioned before about 2 barrel carbs being different for a mod 50 than carbs off an engine that feeds 2 cylinders like a V4 or v6. Other than jetting, and linkages, what would be different in making a v4 and v6 carb work in that application? I have 3 carbs here that look like the ones in your pics that I'd like to use on a similar project. Not sure what they were originally from but they were pulled off a 49.7 that someone had modified.

Kevin

[Fast Fred]

the throttle plates are different, one cyl carbs only have the slot at the bottom of the plate. it will idle at like 7000rpms with "V" carb plates.
the main nozzle is also different, the older Mod50 carbs had a smaller center hole in the main nozzle, newer mod50 carbs have a jet in the bottom of the nozzle

[Hevi Kevi]

the throttle plates are different, one cyl carbs only have the slot at the bottom of the plate. it will idle at like 7000rpms with "V" carb plates.
the main nozzle is also different, the older Mod50 carbs had a smaller center hole in the main nozzle, newer mod50 carbs have a jet in the bottom of the nozzle

Good info thanks. Looks like the carbs I have, have the proper plates. Just not sure about the nozzles

[Fast Fred]

gots a Mod50 straight in , seems unmolested, so i'll use it to get the port map and transfer it to the 56er and or the jest of it

[sharpeye Mike]

Yes sir, that's what I'm talking about, finger ports looks kind of short though.
Nice to see this thread rolling again.

[MGR]

What would a power head like this cost?

[Fast Fred]

i don't have that number for you at this time MGR, i am keepin notes on it.
talk about deck height, soon. later, got to go do stuff,:cool:

[Fast Fred]

so, one of the things needed to build such a moda is, a 56er motor, or the sum of those parts. so when you get that power head back to shop, pull the head. note where each piston crown lands at TDC, most will be flush with the deck, what i want is for the crown to clear the deck by .020, deck as needed. SST 60 spec i have is 6.375 deck height to min. 6.363

[Fast Fred]

exhaust port transfer, the mapping ink is called DYKEM, get some................

[Fast Fred]

the exhaust port is huge on the Mod 50 block..................... that bein why i'm lookin to uses it

[upyours]

subscribed keep the cards and letters coming

[Fast Fred]

gots a caliper hear, usein the back side for inside diameter= id, the height of the port is locked in,

[Fast Fred]

so gots the port height locked in, and take it over to the 56er, from the bottom of the port, ( not goin to lower the port at any time ) set the lower finger of the caliper on the bottom of the port (sill) and make a scribe mark with the the other finger of the caliper

[Fast Fred]

this is what i do hear on this, works on the 19-s front half as well............

[Fast Fred]

same deal on the intake side, i'll get some numbers so yous can measure out a port map, be lookin to send it out for machined finger ports,

[Powerabout]

Hi Fred
If you are copying the port map are you going to use the long rods as well?

[Fast Fred]

minimum run of pistons is 2500 bucks, that gets 4 sets, not seein it, 56er rods are .100 longer stock, than the 49er or so i was told (i'll check that my self) 56er seems to carry 10hp more cuzz of bore and and rod over the 49er. if i could buy three trick pistons i would......... gots sets of mod50 rods on hand.

[Powerabout]

minimum run of pistons is 2500 bucks, that gets 4 sets, not seein it, 56er rods are .100 longer stock, than the 49er or so i was told (i'll check that my self) 56er seems to carry 10hp more cuzz of bore and and rod over the 49er. if i could buy three trick pistons i would......... gots sets of mod50 rods on hand.
So your building it with 56 rods and 56 style pistons?
I dont think the pistons are that expensive Phil McDaniel does 100 and then on sells them for 100 each I seem to remember ( 49 ones for the long rod that is)
Without the long rod your porting will be advanced compared to the Mod 50

[Fast Fred]

the gain in mechanical leverage is not enuff to out way the cost, it's minimal, been a wiseco dealer for about 25years now. there is not a big dif' in the mod 50 rod over the 56er

[Fast Fred]

if there is a new set of long rod 56er +.020 or +.030 over pistons would be interested ..............

[Fast Fred]

so, some notes, the long rod with the trick piston gives the power head a mechanical advantage, over the stock set up. the piston crown vary much does the same thing at the same times give or take no mater which set up. if i was runnin in a class and could use them, i'd be runnin them. i run a set of McDaniels top pin Mod50 pistons now.

[Fast Fred]

some notes on temp, no thermo, no springs, no guts at all, yup, sounds wrong, "thay" the factory, wanted the power head to run at 145deg F for regular racin, and 180deg F for kilo, temp gauge is a good idea, maybe a choker in the water exit toob to keep the temp up, if she is cold, she Bogs................
notes i've picked up along the way, did the facyory say them things, ????? don't know, sounds about right.

[Powerabout]

Yes Fred
On the dyno hit the outside of teh case cylinder walls with your infra red temp gun to ensure all are the same then experiment with controlling the total waterflow to the engine and it will make max HP at a certain temp for sure
Typically OMC race motors dont have thermostats but I think they should especially when you use forged pistons as they need to be running in warm sleeves before you punch it

[Fast Fred]

i would think that to be the part of the basic dyno service, but it's not or so it would seem... anyone can buy a dyno and make claims. any ways i build modas for the fun of it, and cuzz i can and or know how. so not hearin any words on the long rod 56er pistons so just goin to gets some wisecos, i can do my own finger ports, gots some port hights to share, check them against the SST60, and Mod50 hights i have

[camohunter]

the gain in mechanical leverage is not enuff to out way the cost, it's minimal, been a wiseco dealer for about 25years now. there is not a big dif' in the mod 50 rod over the 56er

So the wrist pin hole in the mod 50 piston is closer to the top to allow the longer rod? OR does it extend past the deck into the cylinder head? I'm new at this trying to learn how to build a motor.

Justin

[Fast Fred]

the wrist pin is moved closer to the crown (top), the crown at TDC is about the same as stock give or take. so exhaust hight measurement on SST60 we go from the top, 1.485, mod50 is about the same. on the chamfer from the top on sst60 it measures 1.393, on the mod50 it comes out 1.330. i'll take some shots, so you can see how i get there.............

[Powerabout]

If you have different length rods you cant compare port height you need to compare opening crankangle degree.
Btw a longer rod has less mechanical advantage
It increases piston dwell time at tdc and bdc
It reduces side load on the piston
It reduces max piston speed by slowing the accelaration

[Fast Fred]

ya, all them is true, my self. i'm thinkin we just see it diferant, short rods are quick to spin up, the long rods be pullin in at the end of straight away.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

so, Powerabout gots some good points, temp bein vary important, if not up to temp, when you lift and then slam it, she will just fall on her face. i am seein a deg wheel needed on the intake side, need them to be set so finger ports are timed right. both specs are given, work in your deck height ( its there , need to be clipped) want to stay safe, stay on the sst spec, , think in the middle be better, or you can take it all the way, your choice.

[Fast Fred]

the wheel............ it can be help full, it can also be confusin and frustrating, but just in case there is some thing to be seen, we'll have a look to see what slowin the piston speed down does..........................i'm sure there is someone out there who knows, be good to hear from ya ...............

[Fast Fred]

so i gots to pull a crank, so went over and over on rod length, and it was thought best not to push exhaust height more than .040 over sst60 spec, so not to pull all the low end out but some blow down time should be added, added bore size would make up for it. sst 60 spec on intake is 118deg atdc on the side transfer ports and 120deg atdc for the boost, i am movin the boost port timin up closer to 118deg. finger ports open at 118deg..................... i'll get back when i pull this crank

[Fast Fred]

blow down is the time when the exhaust opens but before the intakes opens, the cyl dumps off the power charge to a level that the intake charge can push its way in.

[oledawg]

Hi Fred, What do you expect will happen when you raise the boost ports to the same height as transfer ports? Will that change the power curve upward? Will it help top end HP, but hurt bottom end?

Thanks,

Thom

[Fast Fred]

just short of the side transfer ports, i think it helps the curve through the mid range to the top. side transfers, finger ports, then .050 -.060 down, boost port opens

[oledawg]

Thank you Fred. Sounds like the way to go.

[sharpeye Mike]

What's going on with the build Fred? Been a while, just wondering.

[Fast Fred]

doin research, talked to some dudes down under, see what they are runnin, lookin for long rod pistons on this planet, none. chuckin out cranks lookin for a nice one. did find some one to machine finger ports and fit new pistons, sorting through what makes HP,and what does not. it's out to be machined in about a week...................

[sharpeye Mike]

Cool, working on one also, not thinking of doing much to it maybe raise the ports a bit next to the bridge and maybe widen them a tad like you showed us in the past, I found another Stinger the other day, picked it up for $500, I don't know if it runs or not but I don't care, It's a good parts motor, I come across a lot of old 55 HP but the 75 are getting harder to come by.

[Per]

I found a crank from an old 55hp Electric shift engine some time ago. I noticed that it has a portion next to the flywheel taper is machined to three cams will this work in my 56ci block together with the stock -92 flywheel?
And equally interesting will the rods fit?:confused:
I have been told earlier that all 3-cyl cranks are interchangeable but would like to double check this again.


59596

[Fast Fred]

that is a cast crank, i would not run that me self, it should fit, but i'm not sure how the it will like new style ignition , as far at ive ever seen, all 56ers came stock with a forged crank, heavier but stronger than cast..............

[Per]

that is a cast crank, i would not run that me self, it should fit, but i'm not sure how the it will like new style ignition , as far at ive ever seen, all 56ers came stock with a forged crank, heavier but stronger than cast..............

OK, I know you are spinning your Engines hard but would you considder a cast crank for some thing not meant to spin higher than 6500 or so RPM? 4-spline 56ci cranks are not easy to find here either:( I see an input shaft adapter in near future, Think I can locate a donator shaft for it:rolleyes:

[Powerabout]

That rust on the taper will cause a problem holding the flywheel, you need to get that polished.

[Fast Fred]

the early 75hp had a cast crank, and skinny rods, some liked that setup best, said it pulled better. is lookin like she needs a buff.

[Per]

Think I Will be able to sort the rust on the taper with electrolytic rust removal and a buff. Just want to make sure I could use it before I put any work into it. Thanks for the heads up!

[75luva]

doin research, talked to some dudes down under, see what they are runnin, lookin for long rod pistons on this planet, none. chuckin out cranks lookin for a nice one. did find some one to machine finger ports and fit new pistons, sorting through what makes HP,and what does not. it's out to be machined in about a week...................

Hey fred i got a set of new long rods and mod50 pistons off tim kurcz unsure if he has any more forsale
Im building a mod myself just waiting on adaptor plate which is being made.

[Fast Fred]

got 4 sets on the shelf,runnin a set in my 19s, i had them top pinned and moved the ring gap out of the finger port. lookin for a set of long rod 56er pistons.heard about a set of 56er long rod pistons tested at the factory.

[sharpeye Mike]

Fred do you know the length of the tuner on the SST60? I seem to get two different measurements from my research, one is 7 5/8" from bottom of power head the other is from the bottom of the adapter plate. From the bottom of the adapter seems long according to the pics. I seen of it.
By the way how did the tuner that you modified with the aluminum base ball bat work out for you?

[Powerabout]

the measurement will be on the APBA rules site

[oledawg]

7.69" from the powerhead mating surface to the end of the tuner.

[sharpeye Mike]

Perfect, thanks a lot guys , working on my short shaft 56 project and I'm at that stage, now I can move on.
Thanks again

[Fast Fred]

bump

[Fast Fred]

tryin to get a clip up of a Fast Fred SST60 with 31m port map............... so far not workin for me

[Fast Fred]

bump bump60160

[Fast Fred]

ok, think that worked:cool::cool:

[sharpeye Mike]

What happened to the six pack Fred? Did you have it out yet?

[Fast Fred]

that's just one i've sent out, the 6 pack power head is on the bench waitin on me to through some machine work $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at it. did pick up some power head's so i can sift for a nice crank and rods

[Fast Fred]

been takin notes from some dudes down under, they run 56 six pack power heads ( seems there is a lot more parts to be had there) the FT 19s on the back of my Super Lite Tunnel stomps hole sale a$$, even more than that would be total devastation to the competition best i can tell, i would like to see how that looks, needs to be "shiftable" , haven't seen that yet, maybe have to make it to see it...:cool:

[87vantage]

any news on the 6 Pack?