In appreciation of vans

[smittythewelder]

This is probably dumb. Wouldn't be the first time for that!

One of the automotive sites I visit has a section on full-size vans, with much useful info. The other day a guy was asking for advice about his van and posted a photo the looks to me as if he is using it to carry a couple of roadracing motorcycles. The bike racers have long been heavy users of full-size vans, and seem to have a million stories about them. For some reason, it struck me that with all the reminiscing that old racers do, I have never seen anybody write a tribute to the lowly van, so I posted the following, which few of you will see so I'm pasting it here for what it's worth:

I'm an old man, got into racing outboard hydros in the era of the Jan and Dean and the Beach Boys. Whether cartopping the raceboat or towing a light racing trailer, nothing was better than a van! If you were carrying the racing machine externally (unlike most of the bike and kart racers), you probably had room to camperize your van with a fold-out cot for two, maybe even a sink and icebox and a fold-out table (my '66 Econoline Supervan had all this). This meant you had a LOT more fuel-efficient and handy set-up for two-day races than did the guys who had big pickups with huge drop-in camper units (which however were more commodious and wife-friendly).

I wonder if any old amateur motor-racer has ever written a paean of tribute to the lowly van. At club-races of boats, roadbikes, MX'ers, enduro and trials bikes, karts, sleds, sportscars, dune buggies and sand draggers, . . . if you were in the parking lots and pits at any of these events you'd see vans all over the place. Nice ones, crappy ones, all makes in all lengths. Yeah, we certainly could have used pickups and station wagons, and even old ambulances and hearses and run-out commercial step-vans (which are all geared wrong for highway use), but the vans that started coming out in about 1961, IIRC, turned out to be the deal sheneille for low-buck racing use.

So here's to the vans! Thanks for all the good times!!

Got any good van stories???

[A/B Speedliner]

Alan and I had a neat tow vehicle, not quite a van but I guess it was close. It was 1950's Willy's panel truck that once was used by our father as a survey crew truck. Always had problems with the front suspension so he wanted to get rid of it. Alan and removed the 4 cylinder engine and transmission out of it along with the rear end. We purchased a used Chevy 348 CI V8 with a two speed Chevy automatic transmission and installed a '57 Chevy rear end ( I think that is what it was). We built an engine rack on one side of it and used that as our two rig with a two boat trailer. We could sleep in the back if we could not afford a motel.

David
Aeroliner Race Boats.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Smitty:

One of the reasons you do not see the proliferation of Conversion Vans on the roads anymore is very simply greed, along with lawsuits against the "rolling stock" that the Vans were made from. To explain further:

I bought my first Van in 1979, a GMC Vandura model, 2500 (3/4 ton series) as a bare cargo van, and all the rest of them I purchased until 2001 were purchased the same way. This was in the day when there was a Van conversion place on almost every corner in almost every town of any size. I purchase a total of 6 Vans over the following years until 1998 and that was my final one. In every one I wanted a special conversion that was done to my specifications and consisted of four Captains chairs (one on a removable pedestal) including the passenger and driver and a couch that folded out into a bed across the back of the Van. Along the drivers side of the van was a full height closer with shelves and hang up for clothes and back of the couch was a plywood partition that divided the back three feet or so of the Van from the passenger area. Back there I carried the demo equipment of the type I was selling at the time. I used the Van(s) for both business and pleasure (Boat Racing) for that almost 20 year period. The reason for the 3/4 ton rating was all the mfgrs were in the clutches of the CAFE regulations and trying to meet the fuel economy regs of the time to meet there whole fleet requirement, and the 3/4 Vans were usually available with a larger engine than the 1/2 ton models. I only bought one Van with a 302V8 and that was the last one I ever had with an engine that small. I had the engine replaced in that one with a 350 V-8 and drove it about 150K miles.

My purchase of this type of transportation was halted in the year 2001 when I tried to purchase another Van and have the special conversion done on it that had always been done by the small corner shop. I quickly found out the the mfgrs would not sell a Van anymore, to a private individual, with what was known as a "Conversion Pkg". and had everything you would need to then have it drop shipped to a Conversion facility of your choosing. In addition, where there had been a conversion package shop on almost every corner, there were only 1-2 left in most every state as the small companies had been driven out by the lawyers seeking money when an accident occurred. Because of that the mfgrs would only do business with the very large Conversion places and that plus not selling the Van with the "conversion pkg" to an individual anymore, and their reluctance to stray very far from their "standard" package which had velour upholstery instead of the Naugahyde I wanted for ease of cleaning turned me away from Vans and to SUV's as I could still get something which was heavy duty and came with a larger than standard engine.

Was really sorry to see the small conversion company go by the wayside as by and large they did a very good job, built what the customer wanted, and at a very good price. When it got like it did, prices went sky high and engine options went in the toilet.

What a waste of a great business, and one that gave the customer what he wanted.

[champ20B]

The 3/4 ton vans by GM were actually "heavy half tons". Rather than the heavier 14 bolt rears with the full floating axles like the ones on 3/4 ton pick-ups, many of the 3/4 ton vans had those five and six-lug 12-bolt rears that were semi-floating axles. That is what is on my 1/2-ton 1969 C-10 pickup, which by the way has a factory big block 396 v-8 in it. And yes, you could get anything from a six cylinder to a 454 in anything 1/2 ton and up from 1973 to 1994, truck or van. That was GM. The 454 was used in trucks until the mid 1990s when they quit making those engines. The last was a 1/2 ton pickup with make believe SS-454 decals on the side. Now days, you can get a 496 cid vortec-8.1 liter in anything 3/4 ton and up. But most prefer those charcoal smelling diesel stink machines that girgle and clatter so loud you have to roll the window up to save your ears, when the light goes green. But if those mini campers or custom vans is what any prefer you can get them at RV dealers now. They'll set em up like you want ordered to make a buck. They are in business putting in-experienced operators of large (up to and over 2 ton) vehicles on the roads every day as it is, so why not?

[Steve Litzell]

My First tow vehiicle was my 57 chevy wagon. It was used for going to school and to work mostly but on weekends for racing it was used to haul my boat. When i got the wagon the first thing I did was change the front seat out to a two door type that the backs would bend forward. With the backseat folded down you could lay back there real compfy like. I did add some soft carpet with backing to it. This was done before the van craze. It worked out real well for dates as well. ( Another story) I had a roof rack and all i did was put the motors in the back and stuff I need and off I went. When I got to the race site even at night I could always get help to get the boat off and on the stands. I then installed the motor and this made plenty room
in back for sleeping. This is what I used until it got turned into one of my first drag cars. It also was used to tow the boat trailer at times when Hosler and I teamed up. My first van was a 83 GMC with the diesel that I got from Charlie Westbrook. This think was great and took me and rest of our race team all over the country side for boat races. I made a rack on top that would hold two 700 hydros back to back. One year for Depue we had to use my van because Ralph's was in the shop. We towed the old open strange stuff trailer fully loaded and two boats on the roof rack. Iside the way it was made we had at least 5 people and away went. Great trip and a lot of fun. Drove that van for 300,000 miles before retiring it. Now I have a burb and love it for it tows my trailer good and most the time now I just take the burb with parts in the back.

[DeanFHobart]

I remember first seeing Vans as a Boat Racing Vehicle at the 1975 Stock Outboard Nationals in Dayton at the Hydroglobe. The next year in 1976 I had to have one. Prior to that I had a Ford Country Sedan Station Wagon. Vans were the perfect vehicle for Boat Racing and sleeping in. The problem in 1976 was that Vans had gotten so popular that all brands, Ford, Chevy, Dodge..... You had to get on a waiting list to buy one. And as if I remember the waiting list was 6 months long. I was able to find a slightly used Ford
"Shorty" 8 foot van with a Straight 6 and a 3 Speed Manual Transmission... So I bought it. Dick Fickett built a Roof Rack for me for the full length top. Our family drove to the 1976 Hinton, West Virginia Stock Outboard Nationals that year. Seattle to Hinton, to California, and back to Seattle...... 3 weeks total.... About 6500 miles total. I had that Van for about 4 or 5 years. Then I got a Pick Up and Camper...... The Boat, motor, and tools & gas can would go in the Camper....... The Good Ole' Days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smittythewelder]

Some of you were around for boat racing in the Fifties and earlier, but I was just a kid who occasionally got to go see a race then. But as I look at old black and white photos from outboard races in that pre-van era, what I see in the pits is nearly all station wagons and family sedans, towing small box trailers with racks atop, carrying one boat, and maybe a rack on the car for a second boat. This crowd was mostly the generation that were kids during the Depression and then fought WW2. They came home hungry, ambitious, and frugal. They got married, worked hard, raised families, and when they had time and cash to race boats, the family car was their vehicle to take to the races. Nowdays, young guys crack me up because they think they must have a big four-wheel-drive rig with gnarly off-road tires in order to go hunting (with their assault rifles); the WW2 generation somehow managed to get animals despite, again, using the (2WD, no-Posi) family sedan or station wagon (and bolt-action 30-06s)!!

Before vans, the common light commercial vehicle was the panel truck, and the even lighter sedan-delivery, which was basically a windowless station wagon with stiffer springs. But I don't think many of these were privately used in the way that vans were starting in the Sixties.

Remember the big van "craze" in the late Sixties, with vans converted into virtual rolling cathouses with velvet curtains and such? A guy named Clark Marshall staged his yearly Custom Auto, Hot Boat, and Speed Show in the Seattle Coliseum in those years, and there were always a bunch of these tarted-up vans along with all the hotrods and raceboats. And of course, a generation of hippies lived in their rather scruffier vans when they were between communes, I guess.

Bill Van, that's the first I'd heard about any legal issue with van conversions . . . Lawyers!!!!!!!

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Smitty:

The last several Vans I had were built on Ford chassis, primarily because unlike the Pick Ups which were mentioned in another post, as you could not get, at least with Chevy or GMC, anything larger than a 302, even if you went with a one ton . This was in the mid 80's and the main reason I changed from GM products to Ford. The 302 was a real dog, and I drove it about 20K and changed it to the 350V8 I mentioned. I got it from a guy name Rich Thomas here in the STL area who had a name for RV and Van Motors. It was hotted up some and had gobs of low end torque, so much in fact that in less than a week after the re-engine, it tore the transmission up that was in the 302. I got a Turbo 350 and had no more problems. That thing was a real runner, and would almost lift the front end off the ground from a stoplight. Rich claimed over 300HP at the rear wheels. As mentioned I drove it about a year longer as it was such a good runner.

I tried a 351 in a 3/4 ton Ford next, and it did not have the performance I wanted so my next van was a one ton with a 460V8 and the final one before the 2001 Excursion a V10, again in a one ton. I just took several leafs out of the rear springs and it rode great, and lasted much longer. They were gas guzzlers though, although surprisingly the V10 got better milage. Of course it was only 413 cubic inches instead of 460, the largest Ford V8 with two extra cylinders.

The legal issues first came about in about the year mid 1990's because as I mentioned, by that time there was a conversion place on every corner
and they were being involved in accidents, some with fatality's of course. The lawyers went after the Van mfgr, not the conversion place, or if they did the Conversion place just went bankrupt and out of business, an since the mfgr's had to accept the liability, they said it they are going to be sold, they are going to be built the right way. That was the death knell of the specialized conversion like I had for 20 years.

I cannot make any comment about engine availability in Pick Ups, but I stand by what I said about the Vans, both GM and Ford. I bought too many over 20 years to not be aware of what was going on in that industry. As far as the 3/4 ton Chevy being a "heavied up" 1/2 ton, again I am not going to argue about that. It had the 2500 series decals and specifications, and that was good enough for me. I did find the Fords held together better than the GMC/Chevy's, and that is why I bought them after several of the GMC's. When you are paying for the truck yourself and your own expenses to travel in excess of 50K per year, you learn fast. Either that or you are broke all the time.

[champ20B]

Ford had a great 302 for many years. But the GM 5.0 liter that was available in the late seventies and in the 80s was a (305 v-8). GM did have a 302, but that was a special competition/performance engine to combat the 302-BOSS ford back in the late sixties to early seventies in road racing. It had a forged crank, forged pistons, solid tappet cam, four bolt main block, aluminum heads, holley double pumper carb, or optional dual cross ram 8bbl carb set up (very rare)....

The GM 302 was available in the early Camaro. The engine that GM used later for regular cars and trucks in 5.0 size was the 305. It was really just a replacement for the old 307. A 305 is actually a 350 with really small diameter pistons. Crank and rods were the same. The old 302 high performance had a short stroke 283/327 crank.

As for the G20 vans according to a few sources, The third generation models lasted from 1971-1996. Available engines were :

4.1 litre (I-6)
4.3 L (V-6)
5.0 L (305 V-8)
5.7 L (350 V-8)
7.4 L (454 V-8) this was just a low compression motor with TBI in the 90s.
6.2 L diesel (v-8) 1982-93...a real piece of crap!
6.5L diesel (V-8) 1994-95

Transmissions were : 3spd auto, 4 spd auto, and 4 spd manuel (available though probably rare).

Some of these options may not have been available based on dealer and location, but could be bought elsewhere. I know that ford does this with certain models of mustangs and custom trucks.