Charleton hydros

[smittythewelder]

About 1966 or '67, J Dub's dad John Myers acquired a Charleton hydro. Don't know if it was new or used, or where John got it. If memory serves, it was nominally a C Stock boat, and John might have used it for that without my having noticed; what I remember is John's dad, Bill Myers, a wonderful guy (and OLD, it seemed to me as a dumb twenty year old kid)(Bill was fifty then, LOL), running it first in BOH with an old Konig deflector twin, and a little later with a Quincy loop A. The Charleton (correct my spelling if needed) was the only one out here, rather exotic, even a little weird-looking with its enormous-looking cockpit and big round cowl edge but a flat fabric cowl, and odd non-trip angles (steep angle for the sponsons, shallow for the afterplanes). Rode rather flat, seems to me, but I don't recall what the Myers men thought about the ride or handling. I don't know where the boat went after Myers were done with it.

I know that Charleton had been building boats for many years before we saw this one in Reg 10. I never hear anybody make reference to these boats, and it isn't right that they should disappear from our collective memory without a trace. Who can tell us about this boatbuilder? John Schubert will know, I bet. Who used and liked them? When did they cease production? Anybody have photos?

(I hope I haven't asked about this before, and forgotten. I have an excellent memory, but short, nano-seconds sometimes. I couldn't find anything with the Search).

[DeanFHobart]

Mike Raich also had one for CSH and / or DSH. He went back to a Sid-Craft the next year.

[FurnalFlyer]

They were built around Ft. Lauderdale. I remember them when I was station in Tampa. That was 1969 and I can't remember a new one being built after that. Dave Rawson was building boats and he had worked for Charlton before that . In the water I always thought they looked cool and like a alligator. If you put a pair of eyes near the top of the cowl and with that long nose that's what it looked like to me. There were a lot of them built in the fifties but you never see one now.
FLYER
Leigh

[Ron Hill]

I don't think I'd ever seen a Charleton until I was in Seattle, 1959. As a "Nosey" young man I asked Bob Brown why he had a water pick up on the bottom of his sponson fin. He said, "Well, when was quits squirting out of the fin, I move forward." He said, the boat rode so smoothly you could not feel if lift, then, you'd "Blow Over". His water pick up, much like a speedo tube" was his "Anti Blow Over" device.

I have much more in my head, but, the interesting thing, Elgin Gates, the So Cal Mercury Distributor has some A-B hydro built in Mexico that I always felt the Charleton was copied from. I will look for some pictures tomorrow and continue my story!

[smittythewelder]

Pretty clever idea! When I got my first alky motor, an old 2-pipe A Konig, somebody told me, "The two best moments you'll have doing this stuff come right before disaster strikes. First is when the boat starts to get nice and light and loose, and the ride gets real smooth and quiet, . . . just before you blow over. The second is when the engine starts running real clean and even and really winding out, really singing, . . . just before it sticks."

What was that about somebody getting a boat built in Mexico? Were there any racers from there in those years?

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I don't think I'd ever seen a Charleton until I was in Seattle, 1959. As a "Nosey" young man I asked Bob Brown why he had a water pick up on the bottom of his sponson fin. He said, "Well, when was quits squirting out of the fin, I move forward." He said, the boat rode so smoothly you could not feel if lift, then, you'd "Blow Over". His water pick up, much like a speedo tube" was his "Anti Blow Over" device.

I have much more in my head, but, the interesting thing, Elgin Gates, the So Cal Mercury Distributor has some A-B hydro built in Mexico that I always felt the Charleton was copied from. I will look for some pictures tomorrow and continue my story!
Yes he did but stuffed in Beloit 1960. Guess the water thingy didn't tell him about when is was about to stuff.. He also had a padded MK30 block.There also was a guy in Mass. that had one, pretty fast until I beat him on time in 1961 with my C-D Sid. Smitty, the only oither hydros that I drove was 2 races in a Swift in 1953 then switched to a Jacoby through 1955 when my dad convinced Sid to build a hydro. I had the 1st one in 1956. Always drove Sid's thereafter. Forgot to mention, Chris Ernestson from Ft Lauderdale won BSH in 1957 at Worster, MA in a Charleton. He was one of a couple that were legal on the stat of the second heat. I wasn't, had high hopes after winning the divisionals. BTW Chris had a 20H as I did, several Hot Rods also in the finals.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

They were built around Ft. Lauderdale. I remember them when I was station in Tampa. That was 1969 and I can't remember a new one being built after that. Dave Rawson was building boats and he had worked for Charlton before that . In the water I always thought they looked cool and like a alligator. If you put a pair of eyes near the top of the cowl and with that long nose that's what it looked like to me. There were a lot of them built in the fifties but you never see one now.
FLYER
Leigh

Anybody remember the Mishey hydro? From Phoenix I believe. They kind of reminded me of the Charleton because of the front deck.

[smittythewelder]

But who was the man behind the Charleton boats, where was his shop (oops, Flyer says Ft. Lauderdale), when and how did he get started, when did he stop building, etc., etc.?? And is he still with us? I just think we ought to have stories on these guys while a few still remember.


Gotta remember (duhh) to call Bob Rhoades, who hasn't been involved in a long time, and see if he will come here and tell his story. Bob's boats, most of which were built with the assistance of his brother-in-law and fellow C/DSH racer Jim Daniels, were some of the best-handling, best-turning hydros of their day, as were those of another Seattle builder, Ed Karelsen. Maybe we can locate Larry Goff, too, whose hydros were so beautiful they should have gone straight into art galleries and museums. I don't know anything about any of the local builders of recent decades, so at some point maybe the younger crowd will tell us about them.

[rumleyfips]

I remember one in the 60's, owned by a guy from Ottawa, Ontario ( Ross ? ). Someone else described the ride as in rough water as driving a big sponge.

[F-12]

There was also a Cajun by the name of J. C. Smith, from Ft. Myers, FL, who had a BSH Charlton hydro. He did really well in FL but never traveled to out of state races. Quite the colorful racer......

[FurnalFlyer]

I've been trying hard to remember his first name. I think it was Phil but can't be sure. Charlie maybe you can remember.
Flyer
Leigh,

[F-12]

You would be correct, Leigh. It wasn't long after Dave Rawson started building boats that I left college and moved in with Dave to learn the art of hydroplane building. Heard a lot of stories about Phil and what Dave learned during this time. I slept on a couch next to a 10 inch South Bend lathe in his living room, and got a treat when we got some alky out of the trailer and used it to cook steaks in his fireplace. Dave is still around but doing high end super yacht finish woodwork. I stop to see him whenever I am in the area. If anyone would like his email............let me know.............

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I've been trying hard to remember his first name. I think it was Phil but can't be sure. Charlie maybe you can remember.
Flyer
Leigh,
Leigh,

Might you be confusing Phil Charland, now deceased, raced BSH, became President of NJOA, refereed a nationals & than married Caryl Porter & moved to Massachusetts. He & John Runne were good friends as well.

John

[Ron Hill]

When we were planning the 1977 Nationals, most SoCal people were fine with my dad inspecting motors as he had inspected many Nationals, and if my motor (s) needed inspecting guys like Harold Berghauer, Dick O'Dea, and Hal Barnes to name a few could easily check my motor (s). But a Referee from SoCal seemed too much CALIFORNIA, so the name Phil Charland came up as he had worked other Nationals and everyone agreed he did a great job. He did a great job at the 1977 Nationals, except he tossed Broom out in 35 SS Hydro for "Rough" driving me...Phil was from Jersey and Broom was from Jersey...I passed Broom, on the last turn, which caused me to get a boat between me and Hank Menzies, giving me the win....I argued with Phil that Broom drove "FINE" and he was wrong to toss Broom...Phil said, "I tossed him on the first lap." End of story!

[Ron Hill]

As I continued to look at Bob Brown's CSH at Seattle I noticed, that the boat had NO AFTER PLANE. I also noticed that he had a propeller that would hardly touch the water as his transom was so high. Thinking he was defending Champion, I decided I'd watch him closely.

Green Lake first turn was at the opposite end of the pits, so you could not see the first turn very well, but I could see the "TELL TAIL" squirting from Bob's sponson fin. He exited the turn on the outside, and headed for the pit turn. I was "Shocked" to see him have probably a 10-12 boat lead in one straight away. He slowed that mother down to almost a stop, his outside sponson grabbed hard and the rear end came about half way around on him, but he's slowed so much he had plenty of time to catch it. Then, he kind of moved slowly off the corner, but by the first turn, he was 10-12 boat lengths ahead.

Seems it was only three laps, but each was the same. Smitty the Welder said the boat had very hard chines on the sponsons and flat chines on the back. This could explain why it cornered poorly....but I think the fact he had the motor jacked up to the stars was also part of the problem.

Bunky Bowerman won CSH in Hinton, West Virginia in 1976 by about the same distance Bob Brown won in 1959.

Padded heads or no padded heads, Bob Brown had a great set up for top end.

Elgin Gates, had the Mexican build him some boats, the were copies of Shirlee's (McDonald)...But for A and B Stocks.

[FurnalFlyer]

John,
That's what was screwing me up so I called Tim Townsend and he also thought it was Phil. His father had a Charleton ran c-d . He thought that Pat Benz had bought one of the last boats. He said that he would have died years ago.
Flyer
Leigh,

[smittythewelder]

Oh, fine, now I'm wondering if I have been misusing a common racing term for fifty years. Ron, you say above that you looked at the boat and it had "no after plane." I have always thought that "afterplane" was a specific DIMENSION of standard hydroplanes, namely the length in inches from the back edge of the sponson to the back edge of the boat, a dimension the Charleton I saw certainly did have (I'd guess about 68"), So please set me straight on this.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

As I continued to look at Bob Brown's CSH at Seattle I noticed, that the boat had NO AFTER PLANE. I also noticed that he had a propeller that would hardly touch the water as his transom was so high. Thinking he was defending Champion, I decided I'd watch him closely.

Green Lake first turn was at the opposite end of the pits, so you could not see the first turn very well, but I could see the "TELL TAIL" squirting from Bob's sponson fin. He exited the turn on the outside, and headed for the pit turn. I was "Shocked" to see him have probably a 10-12 boat lead in one straight away. He slowed that mother down to almost a stop, his outside sponson grabbed hard and the rear end came about half way around on him, but he's slowed so much he had plenty of time to catch it. Then, he kind of moved slowly off the corner, but by the first turn, he was 10-12 boat lengths ahead.

Seems it was only three laps, but each was the same. Smitty the Welder said the boat had very hard chines on the sponsons and flat chines on the back. This could explain why it cornered poorly....but I think the fact he had the motor jacked up to the stars was also part of the problem.

Bunky Bowerman won CSH in Hinton, West Virginia in 1976 by about the same distance Bob Brown won in 1959.

Padded heads or no padded heads, Bob Brown had a great set up for top end.

Elgin Gates, had the Mexican build him some boats, the were copies of Shirlee's (McDonald)...But for A and B Stocks.
Ron,

How come you haven't commented on my comparison of the Mishey to the Charleton?

Also above I mentioned a guy from Massachusetts that had a rather fast "C" Charleton. His name came to me last night. Bud Goodwin.

[Ron Hill]

I've been looking for some pictures of a Mexican Hydro and a Mishey...(Looking on the Speed and Spray Magazine)...but haven't found anything.

On a runabout, anything behind the transom is considered "AFTER PLANE".....The distance from the back of the spnson and the back of the bottom...I don't know what that is called.

[oldalkydriver]

Emmet Reese (San Diego) drove a Mishey 'C' Racing Hydro and if I remember, he was middle of the pack racer. Ralph Holmes (Phoenix) raced a Mishey 'F' Racing Hydro with a 460. He and Chuck Parsons used to do battle at Long Beach Marine Stadium. Ralph also ran, '1 man 'F' Racing Runabout. He was killed in a plane accident in the middle fifties if memory serves me correctly. Only problem is at my age, Getting Lucky, means remembering what you walked into the room for!

[Ron Hill]

I want to start a thread for Mishey Boats as soon as we can post pictures again. Old Alky Racer is right about Ralph Holmes. Ralph was a big time con tractor and helped sponsor races in Phoenix. He was killed in his own private airplane.

Frank Zorkan ran a B Stock Mishey hydro for years before he started building boats.

Other than both Charleton and MISHEY'S HAVING CLOTH DECKS THEIR DESIGNS WERE MILES APART, AT LEAST IN MY MIND THEY WERE. I'm not yelling capital lock went on)...

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I want to start a thread for Mishey Boats as soon as we can post pictures again. Old Alky Racer is right about Ralph Holmes. Ralph was a big time con tractor and helped sponsor races in Phoenix. He was killed in his own private airplane.

Frank Zorkan ran a B Stock Mishey hydro for years before he started building boats.

Other than both Charleton and MISHEY'S HAVING CLOTH DECKS THEIR DESIGNS WERE MILES APART, AT LEAST IN MY MIND THEY WERE. I'm not yelling capital lock went on)...
I reached ouy to RC Hawie who has all of his father's historical boating & racing history. You are right indeed I was wrong as the Charleton & MIshey boats are considerably different. He has a picture of a step hydro, a 3 point & a F Racing runabout. Unfortunately he doesn't know how to scan & then e-mail the scan so he is mailing them to me. I'll scan, save & post if that is ever able to be done again.

[Ron Hill]

George Mishey lived in Phoenix with his wife Gina (I thought they pronounced it Gena) and they seems to live a good life style. They put on a race or two every year. George was BIG into NOA and F Hydros.

We went to Phoenix for a "BIG" money race in the spring of 1952. My brother worked as a "BOX BOY" at the Greater Central Market in Bellflower and he had to work Saturday. Being it was a "BIG" money race my dad flew my brother to Phoenix.

There was a large field of C Hydros and only two F Hydros. My brother "Stepped Up" to F Hydro. He won C Hydro and he also won F Hydro. When they went to pay the money they gave my brother first place money for C and third place for F. They said the F's were more important than the C's. My brother wanted to know who he could appeal this to in NOA, and they said, "George Mishey."

Well, the Hill Family came home and we only raced 2 or 3 NOA races ever after that and we helped promote APBA for more than 50 years.

Mishey boats were COOL looking, but guys like Wade Terrill were building boat for $100 and could deliver them in a week, and he had some great designs for the time.

Eglin Gates, owned the Needles Trading Post and raced M and C Service. He was poor as a church mouse. He could gas weld aluminum gas tanks, so my dad was always sending him tanks.

Elgin decide he wanted to run for a record or two at Devil's Lake, Oregon. I'm not sure the year, he had my dad go through his M and Service C. Elgin went to Oregon and broke both records. While he was in Oregon he met Doc Jones who was the Mercury Distributor for the Northwest and Doc offered Elgin a job. Elgin came home, sold or closed the trading post and went to work for Doc.

Some where along the line Doc told Elgin he was selling his Mercury Distributorship and buying the OMC distributorship for west of the rockies and he was moving to Phoenix. But, he told Elgin, the Mercury Distributorship for Southern California was coming up for sale and he (Elgin) should buy it, which he did.

Elgin was more of a "Racer" at heart the a businessman, but luck for him his dad had made him take a business man in as a partner, his name was Don Graves. The distributorship started making money hand over fist, Elgin started traveling and actually opening new markets by going to Mexico. He also went to places like Africa with Roy Rogers. He build a large home in Newport Beach that he later sold to John Wayne.

While in Mexico, Elgin decided to build some race boats and I really don't know how many he build, I have first hand knowledge of 3 A-B runabouts, 1 D Runabout, and one B Hydro.

The runabouts were copies of runabouts from the Northwest, Shirely Fathoms and the hydros were Elgins design, I think.

I always thought that the Charleton was a copy of Elgin's Mexican hydro (s), but this may not be the case at all. Making a cloth deck like the Mishey might have been too much trouble and this was easier...

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

George Mishey lived in Phoenix with his wife Gina (I thought they pronounced it Gena) and they seems to live a good life style. They put on a race or two every year. George was BIG into NOA and F Hydros.

We went to Phoenix for a "BIG" money race in the spring of 1952. My brother worked as a "BOX BOY" at the Greater Central Market in Bellflower and he had to work Saturday. Being it was a "BIG" money race my dad flew my brother to Phoenix.

There was a large field of C Hydros and only two F Hydros. My brother "Stepped Up" to F Hydro. He won C Hydro and he also won F Hydro. When they went to pay the money they gave my brother first place money for C and third place for F. They said the F's were more important than the C's. My brother wanted to know who he could appeal this to in nOA, and they said, "George Mishey."

Well, the Hill Family came home and we only raced 2 or 3 NOA races ever after that and we helped promotoe APBA for more than 50 years.

Mishey boats were COOL looking, but guys like Wade Terrill were building boat for $100 and could deliver them in a week, and he had some great designs for the time.

Eglin Gates, owned the Needles Trading Post and raced M and C Service. He was poor as a church mouse. He could gas weld aluminum gas tanks, so my dad was always sending him tanks.
How in hell can you say Elgin Gates was poor, wasn't he one of the first Mercury Distributors like Merlyn Culver & Don Guerin

[Ron Hill]

When Elgin bought the Distributorship it was only $35,000 and Elgin wanted my dad to be a partner for $5,000. My dad had $5,000 about 1949, but told Elgin he'd be a dealer and he bought the first $5,000 worth of motors. My dad put the motors in gas stations on consignment. My dad stayed a Mercury dealer til 1997 when he died, he never had a retail shop. Mercury would NOT transfer his dealership to me, his number was 001.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Thought said he was more broke then a church mouse. Where did he get the $35,000

[Ron Hill]

Elgin's dad agreed to loan him like $15,000 if Eglin would take Don Graves in as a 50% partner, my dad's $5,000 for the first shipment of motors. They reanted a small building behind Sam's Seafood in Surfside and Seaboard Equipment Company was born, early 1949.

[HydroPhillip]

Thanks ya'll for lettin me be apart of this! I believe ya'll are talking about my Grandfather here. He built many Charlton hydros, sent a few clear to Australia! I have some nice 8x10s of his boats im going to post here tomorrow. Its late ya'll cant wait to here anything about his time in racing. Id live to restore an original Charlton hydro from back in the day!

[zul8tr]

Charlton pics:

Page 16 lower left Skip Ritter in a BSH Charlton 525F

http://www.boatsport.org/magpdf/bsv42.pdf

Page 14 lower left Dutch Stossel DSH Charlton, also page 15 bottom 5 A stock Charltons

http://www.boatsport.org/magpdf/bsv61.pdf

[HydroPhillip]

Jus so ya'll know i am attemptin to ipload some pictures via my phone. Ive 6 er 7 good photos of a boat in the process if being built with one er two when this Hydro was completed. Please bear with me, im by no means tech savvy, at all!��

[HydroPhillip]

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