Assembly ques.

[smittythewelder]

I never ran a looper myself, but over the years acquired three in boxes, two B's and a C. Seems to me I recall someone saying that you should bolt the back half of the 'case to the block first, then assemble the front end. Is there an approved description of a proper rebuild sequence somewhere here?

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I never ran a looper myself, but over the years acquired three in boxes, two B's and a C. Seems to me I recall someone saying that you should bolt the back half of the 'case to the block first, then assemble the front end. Is there an approved description of a proper rebuild sequence somewhere here?
That certainly could be one way,but not the way my father & I did it.We did the conventional build.

[Gene East]

At Quincy, we assembled the crankcase as a unit and then bolted the crankcase and cyl. block assembly the way John just described

[J-Dub]

I never ran a looper myself, but over the years acquired three in boxes, two B's and a C. Seems to me I recall someone saying that you should bolt the back half of the 'case to the block first, then assemble the front end. Is there an approved description of a proper rebuild sequence somewhere here?

That the way my Dad and Rich Fuchslin taught me...

[R Austin]

I thought that maybe Steve would chime in on this one. I was instructed by O.F. to bolt the bare case back half to the block with out the gasket. Install crank assembly and torque front cover and end caps. Then remove as an assembly and do the final assembly of rings ( and pistons on a 44 which will not go thru the back case), then bolt to the block with the gasket in place.

The thought was to keep the mid case from cracking. Pulling the front cover around the mains and not stressing the narrow web of the mid case half. The bad thing is todays gasket materials, sans asbestos, have a high rubber content and squeeze down and allow uneven and poor pressure transfer between the to parts. I try to use high pressure steam flange gasket material. Expensive stuff but hard enough to do the job.

[J-Dub]

The thought was to keep the mid case from cracking. Pulling the front cover around the mains and not stressing the narrow web of the mid case half. The bad thing is todays gasket materials, sans asbestos, have a high rubber content and squeeze down and allow uneven and poor pressure transfer between the to parts. I try to use high pressure steam flange gasket material. Expensive stuff but hard enough to do the job.

100% agreed. I have an aluminum Gasket/Spacer between my crankcase and block on my 60" engine. I have seriously considered having them water jet cut for the other Flatheads too.
**Note let me know if you need any head gaskets. I had some made for all 2 & 4 cylinder engines (A, B, C,D, & 44) in two different thicknesses (.016" & .025").

[Steve Litzell]

I was taught and have always done the same as Rich and Jdub and others do on four and sixes because of the mid case thinness. The two bangers not so much. With the others you have to jiggle a little and be sure that the reed cages and center mains are set square or cracks and case bulging happen. Also when out a bit it makes the crank turn over harder.I personally spend a lot of time whether it be a flathead or any other motor to be sure crank is free and spins nice. It was something Walt Blamkenstein taught me. Done the same with four strokes on drag motors. Can't spend enough time it seems to get this one part correct but it really helps with the way a motor runs and how quick it will accerate. Steve

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Walt Blankenstein was a master. I am not considering myself a mechanic. Jack Chance taught me how to take apart a motor, fix it and put it back together. After I learned that, he taught me many things to make them run better and more dependable. Just a couple of little things from the older Konigs that were very important.

The crankcase on the old "A"s (1960's) was three piece. Top..midsection...and bottom. The pieces were flanged so they could be assembled with the midsection halved around the center main bearing (if I'm remembering this right) and the top and bottom parts with their bearings and seals coupled together with the midsection. There were about six to eight small bolts holding the three pieces together. No gaskets...just Permatex gasket sealer. Jack Chance had his brother-in-law machine a straight shaft the same size as the crankshaft. We took our old motors and any new ones we bought, had the bearings in the pieces and assembled them around that shaft. We tightened the bolts most of the way then made sure that the shaft moved freely rotating and reciprocating. Then we tightened them down and drilled two small holes (about 3/16) all the way through all three flanges on both sides of the crankcase. Then we ran a tapered bit through the holes. After that, whenever we took a motor apart, before we did the final tightening on the crankcase, we drove the tapered pins home to make sure all pieces were aligned.

Many may remember the 4 cylinder Konigs from the 60's that everyone would call the "old style" crankshafts the "black crankshafts". That was when the wrist pin needle bearings were "free" and not caged. There were also an assortment of spacers you would need to center the pistons. They ranged from about .25mm to 2mm. Then we also had spacers to center the crank itself before centering the pistons. Jack always threw away the labyrinth seals and his brother in law turned brass rings to fit upper and lower American neoprene seals into the metric seats. To center the crankshaft Jack had us stab one set of pistons with rings into the part of the block that had the justifying pin. Then we would bolt on the stator plate making sure it was as centered as possible. After that we would tap the bottom of the crankshaft to make sure it was all the way up. Jack told me that a crankshaft goes up while the motor is running, so that's where the rods should be centered. After the crank was centered, then it was a matter of turning the motor over to see how the rods were riding. Sometimes every thing looked pretty good, but other times a lot of work needed to be done. Most of the time, the spacers were the most common mid range around 1mm or so, but every now and then we would need one very thin spacer and a very thick one to move the rod into the right position. Sometimes we ran out of the right sized spacer we needed and had to get more from Scott Smith. After the new cranks came on board we didn't have to do that anymore.

I had forgotten all about that stuff until reading this thread. After all it was several decades ago into the past century. I don't think I have ever talked to anyone about this, so I'm not sure how many old Konig racers bothered to do these things.

[Steve Litzell]

This old Konig racer remembers and still does this today, Thanks Wayne

[smittythewelder]

Thanks, all, for clueing me in on this.

And ditto Wayne on taper-pins thru the flange in the old A Konig 'case. I still have the tapered reamer and some pins, somewhere. That A Konig started with about 25hp in 1957, and the last one Ron Anderson built some twenty years later was putting 67hp (IIRC) through that same scrawny little crank and rods.

[BJuby]

You should make a separate post showing these restorations. If you're going to run them I would suggest using Mark 25 cranks in both of your "B" motors. I have a Mark 25 crank in all of my 2 cylinder loopers.

[smittythewelder]

Well, since I have the original 20H cranks for the B motors, I'll use them.

Also, the Merc lower units I can build for them only have 1:1 gearsets, so I'll have to get advice on props. In the day, these two engines were using 12:15 Konig units but I didn't get them, nor the tube towers which I'll have to make anew.

Thanks


(EDIT) I am curious, Juby; do you use the Mk25 crank with the bronze split bushing, or what?

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Well, since I have the original 20H cranks for the B motors, I'll use them.

Also, the Merc lower units I can build for them only have 1:1 gearsets, so I'll have to get advice on props. In the day, these two engines were using 12:15 Konig units but I didn't get them, nor the tube towers which I'll have to make anew.

Thanks
Smitty,

I started out with a deep skeg1:1 gear case cut off so I had a wider skeg on my "B" Looper. Then a 30 H which is essentially the same except a larger seal carrier for the slightly larger dia drive shaft. Shortly thereafter we switched to a Crescent 13:14 gear case

[BJuby]

(EDIT) I am curious, Juby; do you use the Mk25 crank with the bronze split bushing, or what?

Sorry I did not see your edit. I used the Mark 25 crank with the babbitt bearing. I don't remember it being brass, I think the split babbitt bearings are steel? For the amount I run them, it shouldn't be an issue. I think the roller type Mark 25 would also be OK, but I don't know if the center neck on those is narrower than the babbitt style cranks.

[Steve Litzell]

TheMk 25 shaft with Brass cage was also used by Quincy due to the center breaking on the B motors. The A,s used the 20 H crank. I think the Early B's used the 20H as well, but after time and power came up is when the change was made. Today and for a fun ride or show and tell it makes no difference, though I think I would stay away from the steel cages. Steve

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

TheMk 25 shaft with Brass cage was also used by Quincy due to the center breaking on the B motors. The A,s used the 20 H crank. I think the Early B's used the 20H as well, but after time and power came up is when the change was made. Today and for a fun ride or show and tell it makes no difference, though I think I would stay away from the steel cages. Steve
At the advise of Dick O'Dea we used the MK25 crank & the bigger reed opening brass reed cages with the labyrinth seal. Dick machined the inside and added the exit holes in the rear of the cages.