shallow sponsoned kneeldown/laydown tunnel boat

[Joe Silvestri 36-S]

After looking at all of the different types of racing, boat designs, etc... here at BRF, I'm going to ask the question I asked at Hydroracer last winter. Is it practical to design and build a shallow sponsoned, kneeldown/laydown, tunnel boat for racing in either the stock, the mod, or the pro catagory? I'm not sure it would be legal at this time, but I've thought about this concept for a couple of years now. If it were practical and worked, it would surely allow us to race on so many more bodies of water, because we would not have to worry about the water becoming to rough. This could potentially allow us to race at sites that could draw more spectators, which in turn, could possibly draw new racers to our sport.

Also, does anyone have pictures of 3-point hydros that are raced in Europe? When my parents came back from Italy a couple years ago, they had pictures of hydros that they saw at a rest stop and pictures they had taken while visiting the Rossi factory. I'm curious, because by the looks of a few of the photos, there seems to be some sort of tunnel built into the afterplane. The boat still seemed to be a 3-point hydro but the afterplane had, what appeared to be a 2' pad at the bottom of it, which followed the shape of the airtrap. I'm not sure I explained this correctly, but I do not have a good picture to look at tofully understand what I saw. Thanks for any info.

[kws]

SOUNDS LIKE A FAIR PLAN TO ME ...
but you will have to get the board to allow longer sponsons it seems to me . As the rules state ( from memory) sponsons cannot be longer than 60% of the boat length( hydro)
then you have the issue do you run hydro,runabouts & tunnels or would the tunnels run with the hydros ?

ok somebody go ahead and slap me lol

[spn#43]

I got tons of pictures of formula-500 boats if that's what you are talking about, when I get out of work I'll post some.

[David Weaver]

Such a boat would not be legal today.:(

[Jeff Akers]

They ran the tunnels and hydros together. I remember looking at all the boats in the morning and thinking , cool a tunnel class too:D
Then when they lined up on the beach with the hydros I thought , no way, they cant run them together, sure as hell did!
It was the most exiting racing event I have ever seen!
SAFE ????? NO FRIGIN WAY!!!!

Glad my brother was standing on the beach with me ( he was on crutches from a blow accedent during a kilo run). I don't think I could have watched the start, and race to the first 90+Degree turn if he was in that race. He does'nt know this, but I'm glad he couldnt race that day!!!

[Jeff Akers]

After reading my post it may sound a little negative:(

Joe, I understand what you are talking about is a more "useable" boat. Thats a good thing and your Idea's are worth talking about. when I read kws's post and Qestion about would they run with hydros or???
Thats when the "flashback" started:o

I'll shut up go back to work on my boat now:cool:

[spn#43]

here are some

[spn#43]

;) ;) ;) ;)

[Joe Silvestri 36-S]

Jeff,

Your right, all I'm trying to do is come up with a way in which we could design a boat, which would be close to what we race now, that would be more user friendly no matter what the water conditions. I have many boat design ideas, which I have no idea if they will work, but just thought I'd throw this idea out there and get some feed back from all of BRF's members since there are so many racers of different factions on here.

I know that the design idea would not be legal right now, but if the design idea worked, could it be legal in the future.

Some of the boat designers on hydroracer said that the two designs should not race together and their reasoning made sense.

The pictures my parents brought back from Italy were of OSY-400 boats.

Any and all replies are requested, no hard feelings here. I love talking about this stuff. :D

On a similar concept, I know that Marc Johnson is planning on building a couple CSH's this winter and is planning on building the cockpit sides, transom and dash as one piece, like a capsule. I can't wait to see the results and I think this is a good start to making the boats safer. I build my cockpit sides very tall simply for protection from other boats and it helps keep me in the boat while driving through rough water. Another safety feature in my mind.

[paul jillings]

Most of those boats are 500's which are now all tunnel hulls in the Internaitonal series (World F500).

The smaller classes (OSY, 125, 250 & 350) still run hydro's with the maximum sponson length of 60%.

For some more pictures here is another link :-

http://republika.pl/jlw/indexEN2004.html

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I fell out of Tim's boat in a turn at Alex one year when my sponson slammed a little hard. I preferred a higher side and when that happened in my boat, my hip just bumped against the cockpit side. Tim had his cut down to match the cutout on the left where you lean. I fell out but I had a death grip on the steering wheel and the boat straightened up. I hit the water flat on my back still holding to the steering wheel, bounced into the air and landed back in the boat.

I didn't know tunnels were illegal in Pro now. Nick Marchetti built me one in 1970 and took it down to Lakeland. The sponsons were too flat and there was way to much surface area on the deck. Bob Hering took it for a test before I got there and promptly blew it over. He told me "Wayne--that boat's dangerous. Don't drive it. It'll kill you.". We tried all kinds of ways to make it work, but Bob was right. Nick later built a C,D F tunnel for Elmer Grade. Don't remember how that turned out.

You may try some different sponson designs to help cushion the blow. One thing about it, boat racers are always experimenting around. This is a good place to bounce ideas around.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

This is what some of the hydro's looked like from the mid 70's.

[Joe Silvestri 36-S]

When I bought my Roper, which I eventually sold to Tad Olson, from Sean Augistine in 2001, it was the first time I drove a hydro with such tall cockpit sides. They were 21" at the windshield. It felt funny at first, but after one heat of racing I came into the pits and told my dad I'd never race another hydro with sides any shorter than 21".

Wayne, thanks for the old pics. I love the looks of the European hydros. I always like the big bubble winshields too.

I reattached two pics Wayne attached in the above post to show the windshield, deck lines and nose lines I like. I also attached a pic from Wayne of the back of the bottom that I think is what I saw in the recent pics my parents had of the OSY boats from Italy. What does the pieces of wood at the back do for the boat? I assumed they extended all the way to the back of the sponsons creating some sort of tunnel effect like the tunnel boats.

[Danny Pigott]

Joe In 72 AN 73 Larry Swier (sp) Ran Mc Call Tunnel In DMH AN EMH He Did Well With It I Think He Won A Championship In 72 At Dayton With This Boat.

[Doug Hall Y51]

The #66 in the previous pictures is James Aderholt. The boat was built by Gary Pugh. James is working over seas and had Gary build him a boat for their style of racing. The problem with those boats is they dont work well on our style race courses. We use a bigger sweeping turn where the Catamaran likes the one buoy turn. This is one reason why when the Worlds are over here for the bigger classes they dont usually do that well and why we probably wouldnt do well over there on there courses.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Those wedges are only a couple of feet long and taper back to flush with the bottom as they go forward. One thing they do is help keeping the transom from slapping so hard in rough water. That style of laydown boat is called a proprider, and they would help in that sense also. In those boats, the sponsons are very active down the straightaways. They are constantly contacting the water on those rough courses and are designed for that. The sponsons also are built to help slow the boat down quickly for single or narrow two bouy turns. They do however have some courses with wide turns. Sometimes they may find smooth water and they need to relieve some air. Those wedges would help in that respect.

[spn#43]

Those were nice boats back then.
Here are some pix of my brother’s old F-500 boat, which is still sitting the way we left it back home some 14 years ago
;)

[Master Oil Racing Team]

So you left it in Yugoslavia?

[spn#43]

So you left it in Yugoslavia?


Yes, white boat is still there.
BTW; it used to be Yugoslavia, now is Serbia.
;)

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Yeah, I saw the Yugoslavian flag and I called it as it was back then. I don't know what the Serbian flag looks like. My nephew went to college with a roommate from Serbia named Rotko. He learned to speak the language over the phone talking to Rotko's parents. He spent some time in Serbia this past summer, but I forget the town.

I used to have a Yugoslavian flag. When we raced at Dayton in 1978, we had an entry from Yugoslavia in class OB. I had flags from all participating countries, and found an album in Dayton that had the national anthems from all countries except Yugoslavia. The driver's name was Perko Drago and he was from Mirabor I believe. Another guy came with him, but he didn't race. He just kept his eye on Perko. Maybe you could start a thread on what racing was like back then.

[Ron Hill]

I know the Rossi 125 is a new motor, but are there any new motors in the 500-1100 cc range???

Our 45 boats work well with a 44 Johnson/Evinrude....Why wouldn't a 45 tunnel boat work well with like a "D" Konig Motor???

I mean there are really a lot of 45 boats around... My problem with the alky burning kneeldown or lay downs is the go way too fast and I don't see enough safety cells....

I see those pictures that where just posted and thought, hell, that water is too rough for a hydro...

What's the rule on the 500 CC Sprint class....

45 Series basically like to run 37 second laps or close....causes wrecks in the cornewrs, but they don't have the blow over we had when we ran mile, mile and a quater courses...

A 500 CC, on a tunnel, on a 37 second course would be "SPRINT CARS" on water...I think I'd want a transom height rule though....maybe!!!

I guess my point, if I have one would be to say it would be way cool to come up with a SAFE CLASS that kneeler both Mod and Pro would like and not be way too expensive....D and E Mods, to me are like 20 MPH too fast...and even 125 PRO is too fast for me....without capsels...

[Mark75H]

Konny, Arens & Rossi all build 500's

Rossi makes a 700, and I think Konny does too

500cc Sprint is a short course class running 500's on open cockpit hydros

The course is supposed to be too short to allow the 500's to get over 100 mph and marked with outside as well as regular inside bouys

[David Weaver]

VRP and GRM produce 125, 175, 250, 350, 500 and 700cc engines. Konny makes 500 and 700 engines. Arens makes on a limited basis 125, 250 and 500. A 45 boat would be inadequate for a 500 or 700c engines (were not designed to run over 100 mph). Plus APBA and AOF rules do not allow for a full tunell hull. Are OPC safety capsules superior to those used in 500cc or 700cc PRO boats? Just a question, I do not know.

As to open cockpits,......same argument, but a different day. Respect the choice of each driver to choose his/her preference.

[Mark75H]

David, I think Ron was considering a rig that wouldn't go 100 mph on purpose ... and probably thinking outside the current PRO rules box on purpose, too ... not really considering running current classes, but instead considering what if?
D and E Mods, to me are like 20 MPH too fast

Ron is thinking of a 60-65 mph class

[Ron Hill]

Quit reading my mind, makes me jumpy...I was thinking 65-75 MPH class with capsule...and Yes, a WHAT IF CLASS????

I see Go Karts growing like crazy... I see various Off Road Classes growing like crazy....I see boat racing growing at a reverse rate.......maybe not like crazy but, not growing...

We need some "WHAT IF CLASSES"... for sure!!!

How much are those NEW motors????

[David Weaver]

Cost of new engines complete run anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 as you move-up the displacement chart (powerhead, pipes, lower-unit and tower housing).

We have kicked around the idea of a PRO class that would match the rules used by O-500 in UIM (i.e. tunnels allowed). The "issue" is that it becomes much more of an effort in terms of preparation and maintenance. Most importantly, the drivers really are not demanding it. It is great to think outside the box, but you have to have drivers "demanding" the class.

Are there classes in OPC with capsules that run in the 60-65mph range? If so, it may not be necessary to have that class in PRO racing.

[Donald]

This is what some of the hydro's looked like from the mid 70's.
Wayne, Certainly enjoy seeing all of your pictures. I wonder how you had time to race. I have my old Dannish boat here in Naples just like ones in your pictures at Oberhafel, and hope to get it ready to run in the Sprint 500 in Depue. I need the plastic bubble for it though, and have had no luck finding anything close, if anyone might have a suggestion, I will be grateful. Ralph

[spn#43]

Yeah, I saw the Yugoslavian flag and I called it as it was back then. I don't know what the Serbian flag looks like. My nephew went to college with a roommate from Serbia named Rotko. He learned to speak the language over the phone talking to Rotko's parents. He spent some time in Serbia this past summer, but I forget the town.

I used to have a Yugoslavian flag. When we raced at Dayton in 1978, we had an entry from Yugoslavia in class OB. I had flags from all participating countries, and found an album in Dayton that had the national anthems from all countries except Yugoslavia. The driver's name was Perko Drago and he was from Mirabor I believe. Another guy came with him, but he didn't race. He just kept his eye on Perko. Maybe you could start a thread on what racing was like back then.

:eek: :eek:
Wow….it’s a small world isn’t it? I know “big” Drago personally, the guy in a black boat #106 is his best friend Janez Ajlec and they went all over Europe racing together but I never knew he went all the way to USA for a race.
Drago first raced Speedway dirt bikes before he got too big (heavy) for motorcycles and then he made a switch to a boat racing OB (350) and later OC (500)
Here is a picture of Drago that I got from E. Pugh when we talked about hydro racing in Europe over on other site he met him as well in England.
It’s a small World!
PS; and attached is also Serbian flag.:) :) ;)

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I never knew he raced speedway bikes. Those things are exciting to watch. That Serbian flag is quite stunning.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Ralph.....I suppose at the time it might have resulted in some oversight on set ups or lack of focus, but I am glad now that I took those pictures. The regrets I have are the ones I don't have. For instance at Hinton in 1977 I didn't go any further down the pits than the Kirts'. I skipped 80% of the pits and some racers from the Northeast I barely knew. And at Yelm, Ron Hill and Julie Seaman were pitted to our left & I never even wandered over there. Oh well, if Joe hadn't turned me on to BRF the ones I do have would probably have disappeared some day.

Here is a closeup of Perko Drago in Dayton 1978. He borrowed a Butts Aerowing from Ray Hardy. The tunnel being unloaded from the shipping container is an OC driven by Ekkehard Knappe. He did very well with it in Berlin in 1977. In the last shot you can see him on the inside at the start, but the Dayton course is more suited for the hydros so he didn't fare as well.

[paul jillings]

Wayne - that bottom picture is BOAT racing!!!!! Different shapes, sizes - fantastic!! Knape did quite well with that boat, he was World OD champion if I remember correctly.

Ralph - I may be able to help with the bubble. There may be a way........will check it out.

The European craft are designed to suit the courses here - tighter, rougher as stated, but the new generation 500 & 700 boats are really impressive. They are super fast, turn on a dime and make for a great spectacle. There is only the F1 and F2 stuff that is on a par for speed, but these smaller craft just look so much better. All the safety cells being used from next year (2006) have to be 2000N to comply with the safety rules.

It was good to see in one picture Manfred Loth - one of the all time greats! Just can't identify the venue.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

The venue is Strandbad Oberhavel in Berlin. I guess I'll put some of those up soon since there are becoming more European members. I have more of Manfred to post, and do you remember Erwin Zimmerman from Austria? He was one of the world's great natural racers. He was just starting to get into tunnels when he was killed in a kneeler. He would have been another top F1, F2 driver had not he met an untimely death. He was also a great guy.

[spn#43]

Here is a closeup of Perko Drago in Dayton 1978. He borrowed a Butts Aerowing from Ray Hardy.

That's cool thanks, he looks a lot younger in the picture than what I remember him from late 80’s. :)

[spn#43]

It was good to see in one picture Manfred Loth - one of the all time greats! Just can't identify the venue.

In the picture #8 that I posted earlier you can see #26 Manfred Loth, #24 Gulliano Landinni (spell?) in the middle (ahead) and #115 to the right.

[spn#43]

The venue is Strandbad Oberhavel in Berlin. I guess I'll put some of those up soon since there are becoming more European members. I have more of Manfred to post, and do you remember Erwin Zimmerman from Austria? He was one of the world's great natural racers. He was just starting to get into tunnels when he was killed in a kneeler. He would have been another top F1, F2 driver had not he met an untimely death. He was also a great guy.

Erwin Zimmerman, the great #77 too bad his great carrier was cut short with the accident. If I remember right Erwin was thrown from the boat and somebody ran over him?
Here is some pictures of his son or grandson (I guess) Erwin Zimmerman in S-850.

[Joe Silvestri 36-S]

What tunnel hull class is that pictured above? What size motor? What kind of hull is that? Very nice.

[paul jillings]

Erwin Zimmerman = Lucini Boat / Selva 1000cc / Class = F1000.

In the previous post - it is Manfred Loth but I don't recall Guilliano Landini ever having a Danisch boat. My money would be on the boat in front being Laszlo Volenter or some other Hungarian / Eastern European. The boat that Loth is driving is a round nosed Popoli or Mostes style hull and for sure all Italians had these at that time......

[17W]

So from the collection of pics I see posted from over seas, all racing is hydros huh? I quess all must walk before they run.......;) Joe I would like to try your laydown sometime......

[Master Oil Racing Team]

BTW, Steve Litzell holds your same opinion;)

[mintominto]

I assume the above venue is somewhere in Germany, but what was the year?
The tunnels look like the old SD and SE classes but not too sure what the Vee is on the crane, looks like 750cc or under.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

The race was a 1 or 2 hour marathon on the Weser River at Karlshaven West Germany. I think the boat was 750, but not positive. One great memory of that race was the steam locomotive that passed by. The tracks were up in the mountains that the river ran through. It was very cold and overcast. The engines of the boats echoed throughout the valley. A real live working steam engine came from behind the trees in the distance and when the engineer saw the boats racing down below, he let off a couple of long wails from the steam whistle. Man, was that something to hear. Never forget that black coal fired smoke and that old steam engine. It was too far away to get a good picture, but the sound really carried down that valley.

[paul jillings]

Some more "European" boats...

http://konny.cz/galery/galery.htm

[mintominto]

Thank you for the info Wayne, would like to see a few more pics of your Euro travels. Looks like a Carniti under No18, seen a few Vee boats run those in the 1970's.

[Mark75H]

Rod, is #21 a Volvo or a Selva?

Do you more pictures of either?

[spn#43]

Rod, is #21 a Volvo or a Selva?

Do you more pictures of either?

#21 is a Archimedes, same thing as a Volvo like Johnson/Evinrude

[spn#43]

Here is a picture of first SPN-motorsports race boat SD class powered by Volvo Penta 60 just like one on Boat #21 but in Volvo version.

PS that was first ever race for my brother and his first win.:cool:

[RichardKCMo]

There was one once, just ask,Hydroplanes were an afterthought to bring interest to the real thing.

Utilittys forever!!!

[mintominto]

Rod, is #21 a Volvo or a Selva?

Do you more pictures of either?
I've managed to dig out Archimedes, Carniti and Volvo Penta pics, have got loads of Selva, some of which I will add in the next few days.

[Mark75H]

Boat # SE 21 with the Carniti is really cool. What kind of boat is that? About what year? What size is that motor?

The #105 Volvo Penta boat .... the motor says "GTX" on the side ... was that the Volvo/König rotary valve powerhead? Is the motor common or rare?

[spn#43]

I don’t remember where I got this picture from but I think it’s cool.:) :)

[mintominto]

Boat # SE 21 with the Carniti is really cool. What kind of boat is that? About what year? What size is that motor?

The #105 Volvo Penta boat .... the motor says "GTX" on the side ... was that the Volvo/König rotary valve powerhead? Is the motor common or rare?
The SE 21 cat is a NIBO hull with 843cc Carniti dated about 1975. Not sure of the GTX significance on the Volvo but I do know that the motors used in that class (NE) were standard production engines ( 750cc max) with no modifications allowed.

[Brand X Racing]

It would be nice to have the opportunity to race tunnel style boats in the PRO division. I'm not sure why the rule is 60%, or when that rule was introduced. Probably back in the 50's!!! The PRO division has enough classes without adding new ones, but allowing different designs to run in the same class (i.e.500 and 700 hydro) doesn't seem too difficult. I know the arguement will be saftey, but give me a break!!! The PRO division argued about onboard radios, and in most tunnel boats....radios are required!!!! Safety is not the issue!!! Both styles race together in Europe and both designs have different advantages. It could attract some new drivers or even bring back some old drivers???? How many PRO drivers moved to tunnel boat?? For more photos http://www.ameridutchracing.com

[Mark75H]

It would be nice to have the opportunity to race tunnel style boats in the PRO division. I'm not sure why the rule is 60%, or when that rule was introduced. Probably back in the 50's!!!

No, the no tunnels rule is relatively recent. It keeps out consistant running 45SST's and makes overlap/turn judgements easier. There is no real reason for it except politics.

[racnbns]

During the 70's and 80's [before the 60% rule] we ran hydro's and tunnel's together. It got rather exciting at times, especially if you were in the turn on the inside lane and a tunnel was outside of you. You better hope he sees you and doesn't turn like there capable of. In Wi. [Badger State races] we would have 3 or 4 tunnels running with 1100 hydro. On some of the narrow river courses it got real challenging after a couple of laps. Sort of like an ocean in a hydro but the tunnels ate it up. My personal feeling is that the two types of boats are not compatable and should not run together. I happen to love my hydro ride and have no desire to get in a tunnel boat. My B.S.

Bruce Summers
V-71

[RichardKCMo]

As in stock 4pt.s have been not allowed for some years, as have tunnells not, as there were none, at that time as when rules were first, reritten in the 60s, out loud anyways, must of been by CK.
Just seen some new lead seals from K,Merc on Ebay, wonder how much?
Wonder what stock is?
What the heck is a tri-hull?

RichardKCMo

[RichardKCMo]

What does blueprinting have to do with stock outboard racing?
Duh? fillout quesationaireto left.
Havefunhear.

[RichardKCMo]

During the 70's and 80's [before the 60% rule] we ran hydro's and tunnel's together. It got rather exciting at times, especially if you were in the turn on the inside lane and a tunnel was outside of you. You better hope he sees you and doesn't turn like there capable of. In Wi. [Badger State races] we would have 3 or 4 tunnels running with 1100 hydro. On some of the narrow river courses it got real challenging after a couple of laps. Sort of like an ocean in a hydro but the tunnels ate it up. My personal feeling is that the two types of boats are not compatable and should not run together. I happen to love my hydro ride and have no desire to get in a tunnel boat. My B.S.

Bruce Summers
V-71
Bruce , could not agree more, don't know how old Sam I am is 40ish maybe but rules are what they are, and for a reason .

As you have mentioned everything being equal overlap, adds a lot to basic responsability, of the individual , sorta' like when it says MERGE LEFT , My Daughter says,WHAT!!! Says, I Look Left,actually i say nail it kid, cause i've already looked.
I have 6 so you know i've been scared a lot

[RichardKCMo]

It would be nice to have the opportunity to race tunnel style boats in the PRO division. I'm not sure why the rule is 60%, or when that rule was introduced. Probably back in the 50's!!! The PRO division has enough classes without adding new ones, but allowing different designs to run in the same class (i.e.500 and 700 hydro) doesn't seem too difficult. I know the arguement will be saftey, but give me a break!!! The PRO division argued about onboard radios, and in most tunnel boats....radios are required!!!! Safety is not the issue!!! Both styles race together in Europe and both designs have different advantages. It could attract some new drivers or even bring back some old drivers???? How many PRO drivers moved to tunnel boat?? For more photos http://www.ameridutchracing.com
Looks kinda like they race on some pretty close turn places, Ross should get them boys to long beach.

I would bet my social security as Merle says that no one here seen supercalafragilistic dissapear, oh well Oh i fergot expealadoshous? My youn'g is 31 'members ever' thing,girls are like that.
Y'all have fun here

[racnbns]

Looks kinda like they race on some pretty close turn places, Ross should get them boys to long beach.

I would bet my social security as Merle says that no one here seen supercalafragilistic dissapear, oh well Oh i fergot expealadoshous? My youn'g is 31 'members ever' thing,girls are like that.
Y'all have fun here

Hi KCMO:
This is a little off the subject. You say your youngest is 31. We must be about the same age cause my grandaughter[oldest] will be 25 on Jan. 3. How's that for logic?
Happy New Year,
Bruce Summers
V-71

[RichardKCMo]

Bruce there' only one merc 6 that runs with those E rudes,and wins a bit,Duwane Larimore is the name , i'm sure i'll be corrected if not so.
The group is from Tx, Kid's A Driver.

[RichardKCMo]

No, the no tunnels rule is relatively recent. It keeps out consistant running 45SST's and makes overlap/turn judgements easier. There is no real reason for it except politics.
It is a recent rule 'bout 12yrs ago or more , but as i 'veheard from some they'll never stand fer it.
Glad i ain't no older'ni am.!!!
What is a hydroplane? 2 points front 1Point back simple, isn't it called 3point early 60s apba said same , i suggest that if one was really int. in rules, read book.
Oh by the way what is 4 point, not allowed ? me thinks? could be corrected though.

Hey , i need some support here on rules and regs.
Honesty, is formost, so full circle., S, Man

[racnbns]

It is a recent rule 'bout 12yrs ago or more , but as i 'veheard from some they'll never stand fer it.
Glad i ain't no older'ni am.!!!
What is a hydroplane? 2 points front 1Point back simple, isn't it called 3point early 60s apba said same , i suggest that if one was really int. in rules, read book.
Oh by the way what is 4 point, not allowed ? me thinks? could be corrected though.

Hey , i need some support here on rules and regs.
Honesty, is formost, so full circle., S, Man

We have 2 or 3 four pt. hydros running in the USTS races. The're a legal pro. category hydro and I guess always have been. I hear they are a little tricky to set up but they are competitive. I may find out this summer.

I can't recall the name of the owner of the six you're talking about[CRS]. I met him at Alex. 3 yrs ago. My friends the Snell bros. work with him. They tell me it runs real well. I think the lad that drives it took a bath at Alex. a couple of years ago.

As far as rules and reg. we settle all that at the annual APBA mtg.and then run with what the book says. If we don't like it we try to change it next year. Simple as that.

Bruce Summers
V-71

[Jeff Lytle]

CRS= Chris and Ron Shurilla

[Mark75H]

I think they are talking about Cleaburn Phelp's boat and Dwayne Larrimore ... but Paul Fuschlin should not be left out as a winner with a 6 in current racing

[racnbns]

I think they are talking about Cleaburn Phelp's boat and Dwayne Larrimore ... but Paul Fuschlin should not be left out as a winner with a 6 in current racing
Yeh Sam thats the name I couldn't remenber. Seems like the memory bank isn't what it used to be.

Fuschlin's six is probably the finest running 6 [deflector] ever. At one time or another he has beat them all and has the hardware to prove it. Rich Fuschlin says that engine pulls more horsepower on the dyno than his looper 6. If my memory is right he said 159 verses 150. Paul or Rich correct me if this is wrong.

Jeff---
That is one I hadn't thought of but you know why I couldn't remember them -
CRS!

Bruce Summers
V-71

[corin_huke]

You guys may be interested to learn that the Lucini boats built in Italy are used essentially in two classes - Formula 1000 (as raced by Erwin Zimmerman's son) and Formula 500 (Pro Hydro). The design of the hull lends itself to two classes, as the tunnel boat design is now popular in the Formula 500 class. Ok there are a few modifications - rear cowling, transom height and so on, but essentially it's the same boat.

The one thing I'm unsure of are the dimensions and if they are the same - I would guess that they are as the boats are composite and it's a lot of work to have two sets of moulds

The design of the Lucini hull goes back a number of years and I'm attaching some photos of boat that it now in the UK, but was raced by Danielle Roda of Italy. This was the begining of the Lucini boat design and was a 'one off' at the time, although you'll see that a number of the design features have found their way into today's boat designs here in Europe (Tiziano Trombetta nr 53 boat). Both Danielle and Tiziano were/are incredibly successful in their respective boats - they effectively cleared up in the classes, winning everything in sight!

Now a question for you guys - shortly before his untimely death, Gerry Drake imported a Fort trimaran boat (built in Russia) into the US. Sadly I don't think Gerry ever got to race it, but what ever happened to the boat - was it ever raced? Where is it now? There was some talk of Gerry's son racing it, but I don't know if this was just hearsay

If you guys ever get to see (or have seen) one of these Russian design of 'tunnel boats' I'm sure you'll find them fascinating. Lots and lots of design features that were emassed over many years behind the Iron Curtain. Okay the engineering was a little "argicultural" but the ideas.....wow! I can remember the first time the boats were seen outide of the then USSR (I think it was Berlin, Tegel). People were looking at them, scratching their heads, thinking what the hell is that and that they would never work. The smiles were on the the other sides of their faces, when the Russian's hit the water and you couldn't see them for dust (or should that be their roostertail!)

Corin

[Brand X Racing]

Gerry Drake's Fort boat was never raced in the States. It was sent back to Europe two years ago to be used in the F500 Series. The MRC Team in Berlin still has the boat but it's no longer usable in UIM due to the capsule certification. As far as I know Gerry's son (Charlie) raced 350 Hydro for a couple of seasons and then just stopped. I haven't seen or hear from him in years.

[Doug Hall Y51]

If I am not mistaken Gerry's boat was raced in the States. I believe that Neil LaRose raced it at the Worlds at Cyprus Gardens. He did not have any success with it. Seemed like he could not get it to break over on plane. Dont know if it was a set-up problem, motor problem or a situation of not having enough experience with driving one of those boats with all the kick-out and tilt levers they had. I also remember Charlie racing a few times after Gerrys death. I have heard that they may have moved back to South Africa. I would like to get ahold of them so if anyone has any contact info please let me know.

[chicagopaul]

I kinda fancy the "Shoe Boat" myself :D

If UIM is the "Mother Ship" and these bpoats are legal UIM boats, and the APBA is affiliated, then why would a UIM class be and illegal APBA class? :confused:

[Mark75H]

If UIM is the "Mother Ship" and these boats are legal UIM boats, and the APBA is affiliated, then why would a UIM class be an illegal APBA class? :confused:Being a UIM affiliate does not require all classes to be 100% aligned with UIM rules .... it only requires world championships and records to conform to UIM rules.