Aristo-craft Torpedo I4

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

Looking For Some Help If Possible. I Have A New 14 Aristo-craft Dry Weight 250 . I Have Strong 55-h And Mk-55 Standard Lower Unit.i Am 180 Lbs.i Made Ajustable Set Back Bracket About 4" I Can Adjust Height No Problem.i Would Like To Run 55-h . I Had Boat Built With Rear Cockpit Cable Steering No Winshield Etc. Will It Work? Height? Prop? Any Thoughts? Also Hull Has 1.5" Kell From Bow To About 16" From Transom,should I Cut It Back Further? I Retired From 30yrs. Of Racing In 1990 But I Still Like To Go Fast. Thanks Nick

[Mark75H]

I'm afraid that is just too heavy to use with a 55H. :(

[Jeff Lytle]

Nick Cerino of Miss Hillwinds and lil' Miss Hillwinds fame? COOL!

We had Dinner at Hillwinds back in the late 70's with Chick Ciotti and his wife. My Dad, Al Lytle was the announcer at all the Inboard Littleton regatta's, and I think the Littleton Chamber of Commerce flipped the bill for dinner that night!

Got to meet Uncle Louie too!

Ciao!

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

Hi Jeff Thats Me, Great To Here From You.many Good Times.i Miss That Great Part Of My Life. I Just Play At The Lake House Now .still Like To Go Fast. Happy Holidays NicK Cerino

[Bob Rusnak]

Looking For Some Help If Possible. I Have A New 14 Aristo-craft Dry Weight 250 . I Have Strong 55-h And Mk-55 Standard Lower Unit.i Am 180 Lbs.i Made Ajustable Set Back Bracket About 4" I Can Adjust Height No Problem.i Would Like To Run 55-h . I Had Boat Built With Rear Cockpit Cable Steering No Winshield Etc. Will It Work? Height? Prop? Any Thoughts? Also Hull Has 1.5" Kell From Bow To About 16" From Transom,should I Cut It Back Further? I Retired From 30yrs. Of Racing In 1990 But I Still Like To Go Fast. Thanks Nick
Hi Nick, I agree the the 14 ft Aristo Craft will be too heavy for the 55h. I have a 14 ft Speedliner that is about the same weight. I use a MK 58 on a gear shift lower unit using a 2 blade 12" pitch prop. It has plenty of speed (not as fast as a 55H ) "or a B Hydro" and could use a little bigger prop. I would go with the MK55.. Bob Rusnak N-96

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

Thanks Bob Its' Not Looking Good For 55h.

[Jeff Lytle]

Have you seen this?:

http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/media_spec_t2_lilmisshillwinds.html

[Tim Weber]

You guys are wrong on the 55H deal. In the old days a DU, as in utility, the boat itself had to weigh in at 280 pounds. The combined weight rule didn't take effect until the mid 50's. My Grandpa, Bill Leutner told me that he would see about 54 mph with a KG-9 on his Switzer Bullet. The thing to do back then was put a fly weight guy in a DU to take advantage of the weight difference. I have a pic of Jerry Waldman racing against my Grandpa in DU. Waldman weighed what, about 140 pounds?

My Grandpa also put a 55H on his Switzer. It would run about 58 mph. He actually took the rig to the Worcster Mass. nationals in the late 50's and he made it into the finals with that big tub. My mom has an old 16mm film of one of the heats. He actually led a heat for 2 1/2 laps and was past by 1 boat on the last turn. His combined weight was 605 pounds. This is when the combined weight for a DU was 525 pounds. To my knowledge, he was the last of the 280 pound boats to ever make a finals.

Now, he ran the motor deep, never above 13" on the transom. The fashion back then was to use a small prop, wind the hey out of it and run it deep. When the KG-9 came in, it had a short skeg like a KG-4, the Q set up. They also used a tremendously big fin on the boat. When the longer skeg foot came out they could do more with set ups.

So There!

I would think this Aristocraft would run in the low 50 mph range with no problem and be a lot of fun.

Tim

[Mark75H]

Tim, I know your intentions are good, but your information has a few errors. I looked up the actual rules and weights and .... 280 pounds is involved, but it is not the bare hull weight. 280 is the boat and everything attached ... motor, steering, cleats etc. An addtional 155 pounds was the minimum for driver and additional non fixed items ... fire extinguisher etc.
435-485 was the racing weight with 435 the minimum combined legal racing weight for DU ... straight from the rule book from the early 1950's

I used to have a 13ft Switzer Bullet myself, I am certain of the bare hull weight .... probably about half of 280


my experience with the 13 ft Bullet and D motors says your speed reports are exactly right for the Bullet and its real weight, but the Aristo is much heavier than the DU's as raced, even from the early 1950's

[Tim Weber]

Sam,

Now I am confused. The total of 435 pounds is correct? How could that be when it was 525 for years after.

Also, I still have one of our old Switzers and its' a beast. Its' got to weigh easily over 200 pounds.

If the boat say weighs 200 + 115 motor ( 55H ) + 25 hardware thats 340 pounds. I would guess the boat to be closer to 225+ which is then 365 without the driver. Then add a 220 pound guy and you got 585 pounds.

The Aristicraft weighs 250 +115 motor +25 hdwr. thats 390 pounds. Add then a 185 pound driver ( owner in this case ) then the total is 575 pounds. That should be well with in a 55 to push that.

Why do you say this won't work for a 50 mph ride?

Tim

[Mark75H]

Checked some more rule books up to 1965 .... 435 is the DU weight in all of them

Not all Switzer Bullets were built exactly the same. In fact there was no plan or blueprint for them, according to Bob Switzer, he just put wood on the floor and started working. I have only seen 2 others in person and they were both built a little more stoutly than mine (more stringers) .... but certainly less than 160 pounds bare. If you have a 200 pounder I think yours was built extra heavy on purpose

[Tim Weber]

The bottom on mine is 3/4 inch thick in places. It was built with a double, shingle bottom. It also has a box transom which is heavvvy. Also, I think it has 7 sets of stringers and it has a built in seat in the front cockpit. The thinest wood on the thing is the decks which are 1/4" ribbon grain mahogony plywood. The total width is about 58". It must be 24" deep at the dash too.

Like I said, its' a beast but very cool too.

Tim

[Mark75H]

That sounds more like the pleasure version of the Bullet, racers were usually built lighter.

All the racing Bullets I've seen had 3/8 bottoms, 1/4 sides and decks

[Tim Weber]

My Switzer is a marathon boat. It looks similar to the pic you posted but it is a true kneeler. It still has the original Atwood wheel and Quincy throttle in it.

A scary thing about it is that none of the hardware is bolted in. Its' all screws. I haven't played with it on the water, don't worry I know better.
Also, it has an indirect steering set up too. The fin was mounted in the center of the bottom. I bet its 12" long and 6" deep.

Tim

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

;) Thanks For All The Feed Back. I Think I Solved The Problem. I Bought 1981 Staudecker 5 Lite Inboard Hydro To Race In Vintage Class. I Am Going To Put Stock Mk 55 On Aristo Craft For The Grand Kids To Play With. You Guys Cost Me A Lot Of Money I Told My Wife Cathy It Is All Your Fault???
Thanks A Lot
Nick Cerino

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Hey Nick, I didn't know Chin Chin 1110 was you. Merry Christmas. What years were the last few Pro Nationals you ran?

[capnzee]

Hello guys, sorry that I am getting into this so late in the game. I had a 12' Aristocraft, I forget the model, however the single seat back was hinged and would fold back so that you could make it into a kneeler. With the stock Mark 50 engine, the boat would run about 41 mph. I put a quickie unit on the Mark 50 and it ran just about the same speed. I jacked the engine, trying to get a little more speed and ended up throwing a rod from overrevs. The 12' Aristocraft had a full length keel about 1 1/4" deep. It didnot have a turn fin on the bottom. The boat turned fair with the keel, but lost a lot in performance. In the 50's we had a few local type races. My Aristocraft could beat one of the local Merc Super Hurricanes, equipped with a "quickie" unit, on a "B" Pabst run a bout and would just about run with a Power cat with twin 70 hp Mercs. I ran a race in Cordova Il. and got beat by a round chined boat powered by a 33 hp Scott. I did beat quite a few of the local boys, however the course had 4 buoys and was almost square favoring the round chined boats. I mounted the Mk 50 powerhead on a Mk 40 direct drive lower unit and it was the most successful match I could put together at the time. I always loved that Aristocraft with the two tone mahogany deck, a grill in the front and a green windshield. I later traded the boat for a Mk 55H. Wish I had either of them back now! Rod Zapf

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

Hey Nick, I didn't know Chin Chin 1110 was you. Merry Christmas. What years were the last few Pro Nationals you ran? HI" WAYNE SO GOOD TO HERE FROM YOU. I HOPE ALL IS WELL.I THINK MY LAST YEAR FOR PRO NATIONALS WAS 1973. IN 1973.I WENT TO VALLEYFEILD THAT YEAR AND WON BOH.I WAS OFFERED A RIDE IN 280 INBOARD.I GOT HOOKED BAD, SOLD ALL PRO STUFF AND BOUGHT MY FIRST INBOARD.I MISSED ALL THE GUYS FROM OUTBOARDS.BUT I HAD A BALL RUNNING INBOARDS, SET A 5 MILE RECORD AND WON NAT. AT ST. PETE LATER I HAD OFFSHORE CHIN-CHIN,WON KEY WEST AND SET KILO RECORD 1989.
THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES NICK CERINO "CHIN-CHIN"

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Yeah, I was thinking 1972-73. I remember when you went into inboards, then lost track. How about putting up some pictures of your boats and stories in the inboard and offshore categories. They need a little more attention. BTW were you at Valleyfield in 1976?

[CHIN-CHIN1110]

Yes" I Raced At Vallyfield 1974- 1978 In 145 Class, Boat Called" Miss Hillwinds. 1979 -1982 280 Class Boat Named Chin-chin E-111. I Also Drove Miss Patco. I Am Putting Together 280 For Vintage Class "like I Am". Just To Get A Ride Again Can't Wait. I Have 8 Grand Kids Who Knows What Can Happen? I Would Like To Post Some Inboard Stuff, Old Pictures, Etc. May Be If All Go's Well Vintage Boats. First I Have To Learn How To Do It.as You Can See I Am Not Very Good At Typing And Computers
Chin-chin Nick Cerino

[Master Oil Racing Team]

...and that's good enough. As far as computers go, BRF is the best way I have found to learn how to use a computer. 11 months ago, I knew hardly anything. If you don't have a scanner get one. There are a number of people here who can guide you, but trial and error and WANTING to post something are very good motivators and you will learn more about computers than you ever thought possible.