Metal Putty/Filler for use in alky engines

[corin_huke]

If I may, a question for those of you that enjoy fettling away on engines for hours on end.......

Can anyone recommend a putty/filler/epoxy that can be used on aluminium engine blocks that run on methanol?

In the past we have used, with little success, a number of different products but have not found one that is up for the job. The last product we tried was a Loctite 2-pack high temperature epoxy set (Loctite Hysol 3479). Although Loctite said it would be fine with methanol, over a short period of time (one or two races) the putty in the engine block became soft and where it was thin, lost adhesion to the aluminium

I wonder of you guys have discovered a product that is suitable? Preferably, I'm looking for something that once applied and left to go hard, the putty can be worked and shaped with grinding tools, sandpaper and the like

Any advice you can offer would be much appreciated

Regards

Corin

PS - the engine we wish to use it on is a pro class hydro outfit

[Master Oil Racing Team]

There is a stick that is half gray, half black that you pinch off and work it together with your fingers until it is blended. It goes by various names. Under the Quik Cure name it sells for 15 to 20 bucks. I get it at a franchise plumbing outlet for about 6 dollars. I don't know if it will work with methanol, but I have patched a tank filled with 70 gravity oil while it was leaking and stopped it. And about 10 years ago I punched a hole in the freon coils of a small icebox (you know how you defrost those things with a icepick). When the refrigerator repairman was servicing our refrigerator, I asked him if he could recharge it. He said he could but it wouldn't work. The coils were aluminum and between the pressure and the oil in the freon, it couldn't stick. I went to my workshop, got some sandpaper and quick cure and it was set up in about 20 minutes. That was 10 years ago. Now I defrost it with a hair dryer on turn it off.

If you can find it, put some on an aluminum piece about like you intend to use it and then soak it in methanol. It will sand, you can drill and tap it, and if you wet your fingers, you can shape it very easily. It has a consistency of putty. If you need for it to get hard quickly, just keep blending it and when you feel it getting hot and stiffer, apply it.

[Tim Weber]

I am not 100% sure about the methanol but I have used Marine Tex with good results on gas & oil mix engines. What I do is to rough up the surface real well and clean it with acetone. Mix the mixture and apply. It takes about 1 hour to cure real well. You can sand it, drill it. We even used it to patch a scored cylinder in a pinch one time.

Tim

[Jeff Lytle]

JB WELD!!

I found it to be #1 with Alky/Klotz mixes.

I was helping a friend dial in a new 500 Konig and noticed one of the head studs went clear through the water jacket into one of the upper exhaust ports, allowing water through as well.
Dan Kirts was pitted next to us and reccomended JB Weld. Not only did it withstand the heat, it was still there every time I tore the engine down for bearing changes. The stuff DOES NOT MOVE!

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

That JB Weld was made in heaven for motor junkies, their repairs and adaptations. When you need a lot is where it get pricey.

Carefull surface roughing and cleaning for adhesion is the way to go.

A variation to stick in filler blocks is to use Permatex ultra high temp RTV exhaust silicon on the same prepared surface you would use JB Weld epoxy on. If running a dry filler block with a cavern to fill too, you stick the filler block down real good with RTV making sure you take any excess away that gets into the exhaust port to filler block area as you squeeze everything down and then layer some more on the outside of the filler block as you build up and widen the seal base. To fill in caverns to level with the exhaust plate (Mercs) left mix the RTV with the gardening mineral called Perlite and layer that in and allow the layers to time cure. Once filled, no leaks and the RTV with Perlite resists heat transfer anywhere else except out the pipes.

Thing is with a dry filler block is to have deep cooling pipes taking water away from the exhaust port area waterjacket side adjacent the middle of the center exhaust port to get heat away from the ports and thir bridges as fast as possible by deep cooling like Quincy did to their Alky deflectors, which had to shed heat fast because they were always tuned borderline meltdown to get the most out of them.

One drawback is trying to get that filler block outa there again is no easy feat that requires a sharp utlility knife to cut RTV out like crazy and lotso leverage because the RTV really sticks it where its impossible to cut at that prepared bonding surface you did first. This is something you don't intend to do often anyway! :)

[corin_huke]

Thanks for the advice guys It seems that you have a good handle on what works and what doesn't. I think we'll give JB Weld a go

I've had a quick search on the Net and it seems like JB Weld is available here in the UK http://www.gluelines.co.uk/jbweld.htm. Any advice as to which one to opt for - I'm guessing that the 'adhesive' version will provide longer lasting results?

[m174inmichigan]

If I may, a question for those of you that enjoy fettling away on engines for hours on end.......

Can anyone recommend a putty/filler/epoxy that can be used on aluminium engine blocks that run on methanol?

In the past we have used, with little success, a number of different products but have not found one that is up for the job. The last product we tried was a Loctite 2-pack high temperature epoxy set (Loctite Hysol 3479). Although Loctite said it would be fine with methanol, over a short period of time (one or two races) the putty in the engine block became soft and where it was thin, lost adhesion to the aluminium

I wonder of you guys have discovered a product that is suitable? Preferably, I'm looking for something that once applied and left to go hard, the putty can be worked and shaped with grinding tools, sandpaper and the like

Any advice you can offer would be much appreciated

Regards

Corin

PS - the engine we wish to use it on is a pro class hydro outfit


As far as block repairs, after doing a lot of blown up motors and replacing missing pieces, jb weld will withstand age and alky, there are othere out there as well, I have used Devcon which is a 2 part epoxy, and jb weld to fill voids in the block and then remachine them, best instance is a 90 Konig 500 that had a big void on the exhaust side after welding in new pices and reboring for a new sleeve, on this one I used marine tex and has been there since, and is ava at most boat supply stores, just mix it up as suggested and work it into the void and let it dry, jb weld is a little thick and needs to be helped into the cracks and such as is a little thick, the Devcon epoxy is good, they have a lot of mixtures for different applications but again is a little thick, so as to work in with things like a toothpick or small pointed tool to get all the air from it and insure complete penetration with no air or (porisorty) which insures complete filling of the void, and it will withstand the heat, and vibration, biggest thing is to make sure everything is completely clean, before you do anything, ie no oil or what ever to give it a solid metal base to adhere to, then all will be fine, hope this helps,

[Ron Hill]

Back in the days we were racing alkies hard...Johnny Carnakis got a Grant built Quincy. Not sure why it was a part at my dad's house, but, being about 1964, my dad was in SHOCK to see "PLASTIC" inside this "C" Mercury..My dad was a total bug about case stuffing...and here, Marshall, had stuffed the case with "PLASTIC"..My Old Man punched, and scratched that MARINE TEX....He decide the ALKY hadn't effected it...After that, my dad became a Marine Tex freak...Where salt water about ate part way through the heads on the old Mercuries, my dad would Marine Tex them back and mill them off...If anything was said, he'd just answer, "Well Marshall Grant uses it." He also used Marine Tex to stuff the cases....like behind the port covers...top and bottom mains the had holes...

Later, Ted Zahorski, made long ways reed Yamaha V-6 motors into cross ways reed motors, with white Marine Tex...These was a gas motors...but he used white Marine Tex to stuff the case...Ted's engines managed to win Parker and Havasu...

We put our nose cones on withe "GLURP", a private label by Hill Marine..."GLURP" was white Marine Tex...

I'd agree with JB weld working too...Plastic is what the word was in the Graduate wasn't it???

[Dave S.]

But on gas motors...... I had a man that had a 115hp merc that had bad crank-driveshaft splines. Was a crabber and needed it NOW so we used MarineTex and it held.:eek: Made me a Beliver.:D

[bill boyes]

Back in the days we were racing alkies hard...Johnny Carnakis got a Grant built Quincy. Not sure why it was a part at my dad's house, but, being about 1964, my dad was in SHOCK to see "PLASTIC" inside this "C" Mercury..My dad was a total bug about case stuffing...and here, Marshall, had stuffed the case with "PLASTIC"..My Old Man punched, and scratched that MARINE TEX....He decide the ALKY hadn't effected it...After that, my dad became a Marine Tex freak...Where salt water about ate part way through the heads on the old Mercuries, my dad would Marine Tex them back and mill them off...If anything was said, he'd just answer, "Well Marshall Grant uses it." He also used Marine Tex to stuff the cases....like behind the port covers...top and bottom mains the had holes...

Later, Ted Zahorski, made long ways reed Yamaha V-6 motors into cross ways reed motors, with white Marine Tex...These was a gas motors...but he used white Marine Tex to stuff the case...Ted's engines managed to win Parker and Havasu...

We put our nose cones on withe "GLURP", a private label by Hill Marine..."GLURP" was white Marine Tex...

I'd agree with JB weld working too...Plastic is what the word was in the Graduate wasn't it??? Me thinks Martine Tex and JB Weld is the same stuff. Both works very well.

[majuri]

Doris, I use Araldit Blue epoxy in many of my motors. It works well.
If you must put it alot there Araldit have epoxy with metal, I don't remember name ?
You can also use Red one but it is 15 minutes epoxy. ;)