Fast Fred's Secrets of the OMC MOD50's Thread #1

[Fast Fred]

Thare are three power heads, guna talk about the first one the 19s.
this is a Tradewinds motor,port exhaust standard 49ci case + .030
uses the long rods same size as the Big twin, thare are mod 50 rods,
the dif' bein the wrist pin hole, stock mod 50 rods run the big wrist pin and caged wrist pin bearing. the big twin rod is the best set up, thay make a kit to run the big wrist pin in the small rod hole with full complament bearing.
steal crank, the stock mod50 19s pistons are two ring dome style with finger port tranfur holes. the case it self is the same as the production case,
the rib under number three exhaust port is cut to let water run in to case , this moda ran no thermostat, did have a water pump, 6 amp alternater,
the exhaust exit is also cut to except the mod 50 exhaust plates.

the front 1/2 on this one has the same jog as the stock intake with 4 over 4
pedal reed blocks, the reeds also had two smaller reeds on top that sat sideways with three 1" 2bbl carbs. was lookin for 100-130oct avgas out of the box.

the Preface of the Owner Manual

" This motor has been engineered and assembled to give the professional race driver, who desires to have a motor with extra capability, a motor which incorporates very high performance with quality and workman ship."
thares more but to the point
I've heard alot about how much hp this moda made on gas, 200hp, 150hp, 135hp, not !!!!!!!!! like it or not 100hp-105hp @7200rpm
__________________

[Fast Fred]

this is the FR-19S
http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/6413/attachment0022ka.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attachment0022ka.jpg):cool:

[Fast Fred]

this is the 19S powerhead
http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/2396/newstuff47ir.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newstuff47ir.jpg):cool:

[Fast Fred]

Next is the Manawa motor:eek: , got to take some pic of it,:cool:

[Fast Fred]

the second generation , after the 19s but before the 31M thare is but another
MOD50 case, vary fue were made, looks just like the 19s, but in side it is vary dif', just so happens, i got one, made about 10-12more hp than the 19s
we'll take a look at it,:cool:



and as it would be, them mercs of the time were makin far, far less hp
than thay would like you to beleve, like 60-75hp at the most :eek: ;)

[Fast Fred]

this is the reed blocks of the 19s
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7559/dcp077709eu.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp077709eu.jpg)

[Tomtall]

Fred - I see no reed stops. Customery for these engines?

[Fast Fred]

no reed stop are shown in the owners manual, I don't run stops my self on any thing, i do sometimes cut the stops way back , thare just to hold the reed in place.:cool: the Yamaha 70 ces is the only race moda i'v ever seen
sent out with reed stops, at a minamum thay need to be cut back 50%, best to remove them ( in the yama)

[Fast Fred]

hangin thare Tomtall
just gettin goin, got a ton more stuff, slow on the pics, i don't do them my self
(the pics) thanks for lookin:) :cool:

[Mark75H]

The true purpose of "reed stops" is not to limit the reed's travel, but to reduce vibration of the reed. A more correct name might have been "dampener" rather than "stop". Some reeds in some motors will flutter and vibrate violently without a stop. At some motor speeds this can cause the reed to be bent into an S or C shape when the reed tip approaches the cage .... jamming the tip hard against the cage, causing premature failure.

In general remove or shorten "reed stops" with great caution; sometimes it will help, sometimes it will do nothing, other times it can destroy a motor.

This is a great thread! I can't wait to see more! Keep it coming :)

[Fast Fred]

hear we got a 56ci/49ci front 1/2 (same) and the 19s front
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9148/dcp077681ui.th.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp077681ui.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

not sure on this one, not a 19s , or a 31m, but for sure a MOD50:eek: :confused: :cool:
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6606/f31fm.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f31fm.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

hears another shot, hear we see the strait on front 1/2, 31m style, this uses ten pedle reed blocks, a full inline 5 over 5 semetrical block:cool:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4049/f3a8vn.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f3a8vn.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

on the port map, it's not to scale, if you got a Stinger or a Hustler or a 70hp on your lake boat, them hights ain't guna make you vary happy, but what is thare
would make more power , ( add the fingers at side tranfur hight, finger ports shoot more UP than out, through some timein in to the boost port, don't go nuts, work the right side of the exhaust port like on the map, no need to go the full exhaust port unless you got a MOD50 front 1/2 and carbs to put on :cool:

[Fast Fred]

thanks on the reed damper scoop,:cool:

[650xs]

hi fred like this info its sh....t hot /the dogs bo........lks like to see more on cc engine ,mat be should use it on our t850 class uk ?????????????? is this engine now obsolete like so many others???there are lots of 75 stingers in uk at mo but most are naff ,will need lot of work to use .once again taaa for ur wise words ;)

[Mark75H]

Very obsolete, certainly well out of homologation :(

[Fast Fred]

well dipendin on how you look at it, the class i run, homalagtion has no meaning,
it' a 1000cc or less,natraly asperated, with a shiftable L/U (F,N,R,), gas,
and thats that. so to build the Badest hull for the SLT Xclass, the choice is clear. out dated maybe, out gunned, not by a long shot, not even kinda:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:;)

[David_L6]

100hp-105hp @7200rpm
__________________


I wonder what those motors were turning with a racing lower unit on a tunnel hull and how many horsepower they were making at those RPM's???

[Fast Fred]

hp falls off, but that don't mean she won't keep turnin up, which will give the hull some vary long legs.:cool:

[David_L6]

I wonder what those motors were turning with a racing lower unit on a tunnel hull and how many horsepower they were making at those RPM's???


hp falls off, but that don't mean she won't keep turnin up, which will give the hull some vary long legs.:cool:


Anyone have any idea what kind of RPM's they were getting out of those motors on tunnel hulls?

Fred, what if the compression was bumped up a bit? (McDaniels piston on left, factory piston on right.)

[Fast Fred]

more compression would make more hp, but not nessasarly more rpms,
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6954/mod50kilo0lq.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mod50kilo0lq.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

higher ports make more rpms, a lot of other factor come in to play, I think it'll
pull in to the 8's, after that, ???, i'll have to let ya Know:eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

thanks for that the shot of them bullets thare DavidL6:cool:

[David_L6]

thanks for that the shot of them bullets thare DavidL6:cool:

No problem..... Can take as many as you want and e-mail them to you.

[Fast Fred]

see if this works, got a chart of a small 2 stroke, this one is vary pumped up,
see how it responds , http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/1580/actstg310kpipe8sq.th.jpg (http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actstg310kpipe8sq.jpg):eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

same moda stock, :cool: http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2696/stockact3yb.th.jpg (http://img469.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stockact3yb.jpg)

[Mark75H]

There is something weird about the way those graphs are set up .... they are not presented in the same format ... they are not a direct comparison .... closer than apples and oranges, but as different as Granny Smiths and Red Delicous apples. Each graph is correct to itself, but the 2 graphs are not comparisons

[Fast Fred]

???, I don't know, this is what i think i know about the two, maybe that helps.
same motor, 52cc, stock clutch comes in at 2 grand makes a pull, peaks at
3.4-3.5hp @ about 7500.

same motor , new carb same size +1/2, biger intake, port the bag out of the jug, w/ exspando pipe,
plug in make a pull, clutch comes in at 2grand, (i'm thinkin the pull is the same, the drag, the load,???) pulled to 9 donkeys @ like 9600:eek:
was just lookin at it for how the power curve looks as she runs on past peak:cool:

[Mark75H]

Correct. Each graph is correct to itself, but on the second both the hp and torque lines go 1-2-3-4 ... on the first one the hp goes 2-4-6-10 and the torque still goes 1-2-3-4

There is no information about the clutch action ... all the graph shows is that we know nothing about the power below 2,000 rpm. Either readings were not taken or the person presenting the data chose not to tell us, we do not know.

Stock made 1.1 hp @2k and mod was sacrificed to about .89 hp @2k
stock pulled 2.5 @4k, mod still slouched with 1.9@4k
stock pulled 2.8 @5k, mod broke even @5k with 2.8hp

Since chart 2 uses 1:1 ratio between hp and torque representations we see hp and torque at the same point on the graph at 5,250 rpm ... 2.96 or so. (The the stock motor's torque passed its peak at 4k and is falling gently, so with rpm increasing hp is also still increasing.)

Chart 1 shows that torque and hp are about 2.99 at 5,250 rpm on the mod motor, but since the scales are different they don't fall on the same point and the lines do not cross. The mod motor has not yet reached its torque peak, as rpm increases hp is increasing dramatically compared to the stock motor.

At 7,500 rpm the stock motor is maxed out at something like 3.6hp - the mod motor has almost TWICE the power, about 6.5hp, and has still not reached its torque peak nor hp peak. Hp is still increasing dramatically with rpm.

At 8,500 the mod motor's torque peaks at about 5.3, but with a smooth top to the torque curve, power is maybe 8.8 and still increasing with rpm increase. 30% more torque at double the rpm ... getting power from both hp factors.

At 9,600 the mod motor peaks out over 9hp. Hp no longer increases with further rpm increase because torque is falling dramatically with rpm increase; but hp stays over 5 hp past 11,000 where the stock motor was stuck at 3.5.

With a sliding length expansion chamber the torque may have risen even sooner ... the torque bump that starts at 7,000 could have started at 5,000 rpm. With a little luck the hp at 6,000 rpm would be increased from 4hp to 6hp and the torque drop at 9,600 could have been pushed to 11,000 and the hp bumped from 9 to 11 due to the rpm increase.

[Fast Fred]

was thinkin along the lines of a longer conrod, a trick piston,(same jug and crank) and two 7or 8mm carbs, on that pipe. top end would be similer, but the low and mid pull would go way up.:cool:
good stuff:cool:

[sasbenson]

Unless the rules for measuing horspower have changed the first chart is in error. Horse power is a function of torque and rpm and the accepted formula is torque(in foot pounds) multiplied by RPM divided by the constant 5252. So go anywhere on the dyno chart torque curve and use this formula and you will see the HP numbers are incorrect. It is not possible to have more torque than horsepower above 5252rpm. In practical terms, the reason horsepower falls off at higher rpms is the declining ability of the engine to process air and therefore torque. If the torque was able to remain constant from its peak figure to an infinite rpm level the horsepower would also rise to an infinite level. An engine making 10ft lbs of torque at 5252 also makes 10HP at that rpm but at 25000rpm it would produce a healthy 47.6HP with that same small 10 FT lbs of torque. Until the advent of "powervalves"in high performance two stroke racing engines (which alters the exhaustport timing) most racing two strokes had a very narrow or "pipey" power delivery indeed waiting for all of the sonic pulsation to come together at a precise moment to get a cylinder full of something that will actually make pressure.
This not a criticism of the person starting this thread in any way and I hope it may help someone who dosn't know how any of this suff works have a little better understanding. You feel torque in the seat of your pants! horsepower is but a function of that and rpm and is a way of measuring how much "work" is being done.

sasbenson

[Mark75H]

Steve you would be correct if the first diagram was typical, but it is not.

The charts are both correct, but the torque scale is not the same on each ... and the first one is certainly not typical with its non 1:1 ratio shown between torque & hp. Look at the torque number scale on the right - not the same as the hp scale on the left.

That was probably done to clarify the chart where the lines ran concurrently. But it would probably have been better just to make sure an easy to read line fell on top of a heavier bold line instead of changing one scale, changing the ratio between the lines and making it weird to read

[Fast Fred]

torque starts losein out hard at about 5grand, just like you said, but looks like
it's pullin on nitro compaired to hp on the chart, that what ya mean?:cool:

[Fast Fred]

OK, important news..."tooling and rights to the three-cylinder OMC Formula 3 race engines which had been built and distributed by Vander Velden since the late 1980s. Those engines and associated gear cases and center sections will be evaluated for production."thats this Moda, the FR-31M the last OMC genaration.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8058/f3m3119hr.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f3m3119hr.jpg):cool:

[Fast Fred]

Ok then, wanted to talk about pistons and rods in the Mod50's and how it works;) hear we got a stocker piston and right next to it we got a Mod50 one ringer ( both factory made pistons),http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2112/000008453pi.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=000008453pi.jpg) the diamiter and the hight are the same:cool: But:eek: the wrist pin location is closer to the crown in the one ring
mod50 bullet:eek: , this is key to let the long rod run :cool:

[Fast Fred]

hear we see both pistons and rod combos, thare overall hights are the same.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/739/oct19wv.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oct19wv.jpg)

crown stroke is the same:cool:ya it makes it biger,but what 's really important
is the piston stays at T and B, DC longer ( thats ware the long stroke gos)
which makes More torque. :eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

then the next generation was called the "straight in":eek:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7715/f38yf.th.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f38yf.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

Special die cast blocks were made by using inserts to form the ports. These inserts were later machined out and sleeves pressed in place.;) http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/9738/f3a4ik.th.jpg (http://img346.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f3a4ik.jpg):eek:

[Mark75H]

Does the straight in front use V-8 reed blocks?

[Fast Fred]

i think these are v-4 reeds from the 140hp, and that v-8 reeds are 6 over 6,
these bein 5 over 5http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6443/p10300102sj.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10300102sj.jpg):cool:

[Fast Fred]

lookin for a set of them by the way, unmolested:eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

hear we have OMC Mod50 "straight in" number 300:cool:
it's in "as raced" condition, this bein a race moda, Only one piston fits it, thare were No over sizes, 3.030" was it:eek:
so once a bore wore out, it was time for a new sleeve or new case set.:confused:
lookin at the bores of number 300, gota say the thing ran NICE:eek: , 1 and 2
are reddy to be fitted, number 3 how ever is out side tallerance. but more important, She never blowed up:cool:http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4259/p11000036ku.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p11000036ku.jpg)

[David_L6]

Fred, I think you can still get sleeves from L.A. Sleeve.


I'm about done gathering up parts now. Have a cylinder head on the way. Rules required use of regular fishing motor front half / reed cages / carbs so nothing fancy on that end. I'm thinking that I'll go ~.050" to .075" lower on the ports than the Mod 50 timing.......


I'm thinking of having a head built with a true hemi combustion chamber later on (after I get a motor together and tested).

[Fast Fred]

I altered the port hights in my 19s cuz the hull i'm runin has a 13" tunnel.thinkin full port hight would work nice for a hull like that L6 .:cool:

[David_L6]

I altered the port hights in my 19s cuz the hull i'm runin has a 13" tunnel.thinkin full port hight would work nice for a hull like that L6 .:cool:


I'm not sure how good an oval course race motor it would make with full port height and 1:1 gear ratio....... Can always raise the ports later. Can't lower them though.

[Fast Fred]

this was a Factory proto, had the full map, layed down the LAW.:eek: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6339/mod50kilo7lr.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mod50kilo7lr.jpg)
did do some research on the mod50 with reg front and carbs, on the short corse, it killed everbody. thats why i built one goin on two.

[Mark75H]

I'm not sure how good an oval course race motor it would make with full port height and 1:1 gear ratio....... Can always raise the ports later. Can't lower them though.True, but even the most extreme factory Mod 50 was an oval course racer ;)



this was a Factory proto, had the full map, .

We can ask the original owner about that ;)

[Mike Schmidt]

Full tilt Mod 50 porting worked just fine on our FRR motor 20 something years ago. Big old flat deck Desilva with two guys in it.

There is at least one FEH out there with full Mod 50 porting. He runs better than most....

Michael D-1

[Fast Fred]

I don't know the owner, but did talk to one of the builders of that Moda.:cool:

[David_L6]

I'm not sure how good an oval course race motor it would make with full port height and 1:1 gear ratio....... Can always raise the ports later. Can't lower them though.


True, but even the most extreme factory Mod 50 was an oval course racer ;)

Yeah, I know..... It had something like a 13:17 gear ratio though.... To be perfectly honest I don't know what port timing would be best. :confused: I do know that I can't lower them though....

If Quincy were still in business and new pistons and rings for the Merc were still available from Mercury, I'd have Quincy pad a block, copy my 44's port timing, and see if I could run with 'em with a Mercury.

[David_L6]

Full tilt Mod 50 porting worked just fine on our FRR motor 20 something years ago. Big old flat deck Desilva with two guys in it.

There is at least one FEH out there with full Mod 50 porting. He runs better than most....

Michael D-1


Hhhmmmm....... (the gears are grinding now......) What would you do Mike?

[Fast Fred]

hear we see a 19s with cast in liners, and we see some work on exhaust ports of one and three,http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4980/modports9gc.th.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/my.php?image=modports9gc.jpg)
and what are thay doin that for?:eek: :cool: :)http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1078/modports2bo.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=modports2bo.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

this is ware thay are tryin to go, not number two cuz of heat, i'm thinkin.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5096/p11000177zl.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p11000177zl.jpg):eek: :confused: :eek: ;)

[Fast Fred]

the "straight in" case can dump heat far better than the castin liners:cool:

[Fast Fred]

Originally Posted by Mike Schmidt
Full tilt Mod 50 porting worked just fine on our FRR motor 20 something years ago. Big old flat deck Desilva with two guys in it.
was you usein gas back then?:cool:

[David_L6]

hear we see a 19s with cast in liners, and we see some work on exhaust ports of one and three,
and what are thay doin that for?

I wonder just how many different port styles were tried on those motors.... That's the second time I've seen that port style, the block that I had looks almost like a fishing motor except the timing is different, and then there's the style that the 31M block had.....

[David_L6]

About running the Mod 50 port timing in FE/SE.......... The Mod 50 had better breathing than what the FE/SE motors are allowed. Seems to me that all the RPM potential of the port timing isn't going to mean much if the reed cages and/or carbs don't flow enough to support the RPM's of the higher port timing.

[Fast Fred]

air speed is way up, with single carbs, out the shoot, she should pull
:eek: Big:eek: to the turn;) think that thats the same port map for the last powerhead, spun about a buck 80, thare is still more:cool:

[NERSTROM]

Fred, the block you show the picture of was modified that way because the port rib cracked and that was the only way to try to salvage the block. This is not an ideal situation and will most likely be the cylinder which fails. This does not accomplish the same performance as the straight in blocks. Those ports are very different and can not be duplicated by grinding on a 19S block. The reeds (4 per side) used were V4 boxes with machined openings and later style V4 stops. The Straight In had special cast reed boxes (5 per side) and matching stops.

David L6, the Mod 50 porting requires an exhaust system which is matched to the port timing. Without the correct exhaust the higher ports will just hurt your bottom end with little help at the top. Note the ports are chamfered from the basic port section to the timing edge. This was done to maintain as much bottom end power as possible and still perform well at higher rpm.

[David_L6]

David L6, the Mod 50 porting requires an exhaust system which is matched to the port timing. Without the correct exhaust the higher ports will just hurt your bottom end with little help at the top. Note the ports are chamfered from the basic port section to the timing edge. This was done to maintain as much bottom end power as possible and still perform well at higher rpm.


I have a factory Mod 50 exhaust and part of an exhaust that is similar to the factory Mod 50 exhaust that was built by Ray Nydahl. I am hoping that one of those will run well on a non-factory tower. I'm not yet sure what kind of tower I'll use.

[Fast Fred]

way good stuff:) , as i understand it , the removeing of the rib is commin in one and two , i was thinkin thats ware thay was try in to go with it, way cool stuff:cool:

thinkin Davidl6 got some Mod50 exhaust parts, gots any pics to share, i don't have any pics of mine, thay went right to the dyno shop, never saw them, just pics.:eek: :cool:

[Jeff Akers]

Great thread guys !

MORE...MORE... MORE !!!:D

[Jeff Akers]

I have a factory Mod 50 exhaust and part of an exhaust that is similar to the factory Mod 50 exhaust that was built by Ray Nydahl. I am hoping that one of those will run well on a non-factory tower. I'm not yet sure what kind of tower I'll use.

David,

You should have sold that "THING" to me a long time ago!

I think it would flow nicely on my mid :rolleyes:

[Fast Fred]

:cool: well gots to go for now , gots more hear, see what else we can see:eek:
or maybe i'll see yous in FL, at the airport i herd, someware:confused: ;) :cool:

[NERSTROM]

David,
Not sure if you have to exhaust through the midsection or can run an open stack. The motor Fred used for the Mod 50 record had the exhaust into the midsection because of the rules for Mod 50. We could have just as easily made a system which came out above the midsection. We also raced this setup at the alky nationals in Minn. If you want to use one of the cast systems use the OMC parts. Ray's system did not require machining the block and compromised the exhaust passage. Look very closely at the rest of the Mod 50 system when you design yours, especially the area ratios. You will be surprised by what you find.

[David_L6]

David,

You should have sold that "THING" to me a long time ago!

I think it would flow nicely on my mid :rolleyes:


I like the looks of your exhaust! :cool: I bought that thing for a knucklhead over in Mississippi while I was chasing parts for him......

[David_L6]

David,
Not sure if you have to exhaust through the midsection or can run an open stack.

I can run any tower and any exhaust. No rules on those.

[David_L6]

David,
Look very closely at the rest of the Mod 50 system when you design yours, especially the area ratios. You will be surprised by what you find.

If you knew me, you'd be surprised if I found anything. :o I don't have a clue what I am supposed to be looking for and probably wouldn't realize I was looking at it if I was looking at it. :o :o :o

[Fast Fred]

on the exhaust, the distance from the port to the back of the exhaust plate is grater, the spent charge turns once (down):cool:

[Mark75H]

I'm still confused. Greater in relation to what?:confused:

[Fast Fred]

stock,stock plates, the mod50 plates have more volume right in front of the port window, just like that Runne set:cool: , you follow?:cool:

[Mark75H]

That much is obvious. I kinda think Jim N was hinting at something else?

[Fast Fred]

thare is not a lot goin on in thare, straight shot down, slight bend with a large,
Extra Large Exit in to the adapter, I don't have a Mod50 adapter, yet, think i found one, haven't seen the tuner yet:confused: , hopein it's welded to the adapter:eek: :cool: got to be the exit size,
I can't run "pipes", had to go with SST70 exhaust rules, Thinkin i still need one of them 3 in to 1 dry slippy cans with tiller lever controle, like a bike clutch lever, thinkin thats workin:cool: :eek:

[jeff55vDSH]

The true purpose of "reed stops" is not to limit the reed's travel, but to reduce vibration of the reed. A more correct name might have been "dampener" rather than "stop".
In general remove or shorten "reed stops" with great caution; sometimes it will help, sometimes it will do nothing, other times it can destroy a motor.

I couldn't agree more. For instance: In my old Merc 500 mod, I ran the longer reedstops from the big bore inline six's. I set the reed stop height at the low end of the factory tolerance for the Merc 500.
(My 44mod was pretty darn fast- so I'd been told.:D )
My theory was that more control of the reed would help the reed open, and more importantly CLOSE, when it was supposed to. Another benefit was longer service life from the fibre reeds.

[Fast Fred]

and back over hear, Jeff, Jeff AKERS,
OK was guna make some Nydal Exhaust plates, but cuz of some words sayed hear , i ran down them guys in Washington, and baged a set of new fr-19s exhaust plates, I asked them if thay would be selling them, thay sayed NO.
so i am tryin to get the mold from Bomb. at 275.- 325. a set i see it as the best set up for the bucks, even if you compimise them some to fit a stock case:cool:
so that ware thats at:cool:
tryin to bag the fr-19s addapter plate as well, so to make a compleat setup.:) ;)

[David_L6]

and back over hear, Jeff, Jeff AKERS,
OK was guna make some Nydal Exhaust plates, but cuz of some words sayed hear , i ran down them guys in Washington, and baged a set of new fr-19s exhaust plates, I asked them if thay would be selling them, thay sayed NO.
so i am tryin to get the mold from Bomb. at 275.- 325. a set i see it as the best set up for the bucks, even if you compimise them some to fit a stock case:cool:
so that ware thats at:cool:
tryin to bag the fr-19s addapter plate as well, so to make a compleat setup.:) ;)

So you aren't going to be needing to borrow the Nydahl exhaust that I have? What are you planning on building now?

[Jeff Akers]

Ummm, Errr...........Fred,
Like David I'm not so clear on what you posted:confused:

Are you saying you have found some Mod50 molds and are going to reproduce those insted of the ones David has? ? ?

[Fast Fred]

Are you saying you have found some Mod50 molds and are going to reproduce those insted of the ones David has? ? ?

ya, kinda, i got a set of them mod50 plates but i've never seen them, thay got sent to Wienandt,s shop. so i baged a set from Greg Jacobsen in Washington.
he said thay are only makin m-31 stuff, so guna take some mesurements lookin for what Mr.NERSTROM was talkin about to make sure i don't miss it, guna try to get the molds form Bomb, see what thay want for molds thay don't want to use:eek:

jeff, could make a 3 in to one W/ a 250cc dirtbike slippy can on it for ya:eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

kinda like this:eek: http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/5082/3cylhustler6ps.th.jpg (http://img425.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3cylhustler6ps.jpg):eek: but w/ a slippy can on it:cool:

[David Mason]

What kind of porting did you do to make this type of Exhaust work ?

[Fast Fred]

on page one of the tred:eek: :cool:

[Jeff Akers]

kinda like this:eek: http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/5082/3cylhustler6ps.th.jpg (http://img425.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3cylhustler6ps.jpg):eek: but w/ a slippy can on it:cool:


YOU BUILD IT I"LL BUY IT;)

[NERSTROM]

Fred,
Thats a great looking exhaust but not what you want for the Mod 50. Port runners are going to be way too long. If you think about the systems used on the Mod 50 & Merc V6 they are very simular. Merc V6 is tuned as if it were two 3-cylinder engines. I doubt you will have any luck finding the original pattern equipment for the FR-19, I am sure it was scrapped years ago. The system used on the -31 is excellent, except it goes on the wrong side of the engine. Here is something to think about -- what happens if you put the outlet at the top of the block? Don't laugh.

[Mark75H]

Here is something to think about -- what happens if you put the outlet at the top of the block? Don't laugh.

Wouldn't that sort of be like changing the firing order or running the motor backwards .... or ... turning the motor inside out and putting the exhaust on the other side of the block?

[Fast Fred]

no, the firing order is the same on the m-31, spins the same direction as the 19s, the m-31 had a better intake flow , it was also said that the rings sealed
better on the exhaust side of the piston in the m-31.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

my self, i got to dump in to the midsection, thats the rule.
i'm running an FT-19s ( nitro L/U with trick bigfoot nose cone, SHIFTABLE. thats
another rule on a vary short list). the hull has a 13" tunnel, it has to carry it self at all times, torque, got to have a bunch of low end:cool:

[Mark75H]

With the same crankshaft, the actual firing order is the same .... but the motor with the exhaust on the other side is in essence reversed on the crankshaft .... for the exhaust tuning the firing order is reversed. Jim asked what the effect would be of letting the exhaust out the top of a regular motor .... it would be the same effect .... changing the exhaust tuning's firing order

[Fast Fred]

interesting, please explain how changen the order of the lengths dose something.:cool:
thinkin it needs a reflective cone, the closer the better, like a bumble Bee, in line, on the top.:cool:

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

Jim asked what the effect would be of letting the exhaust out the top of a regular motor .... it would be the same effect .... changing the exhaust tuning's firing order

Sam; I believe you are over-thinking this situation. All three cylinders are [must !] exhausting into the same chamber, each one firing at 120 deg intervals. The pressure pulse felt by the next firing cylinder [120 deg later] is the same whether one exhausts top or bottom. I have made up two MOD50 clones from billet exhausting out the top, with good results.
Cheney Street also went out the top, and his 105 run still stands !
Biggest problem is folks throwing their gum wrappers in there, others calling it the 'slurppy exhaust', cause the tapered cone sitting on top lookes like one. But it is great fun to leave a oily rag in the pipe, and have it exit flaming on fire up!

[NERSTROM]

Sam, you got it! Kind of like firing 1-3-2 rather than 1-2-3. Depending on the engine this can help performance.

[David Mason]

I don't think it matters where you exit the exhaust with a pipe. The important thing is getting the right pipe on the elbow in relation to how you have ported the engine, among a few things. I run out the bottom exhaust on my SEH, My Parker Tower exits one way out the bottom, and my Bass Tower exits the opposite way because of how the Tower is built. Both systems provide equal results for top end. One thing to remember with my set up is I use an original Mod 50 system bolted on the engine, so everything coming out is the same until it exits the bottom through a pipe.

Pipes on these engines are a lot like expansion chambers, you can play with lengths on your exit tube to change performance depending on your desired results.


I have seen a lot of different systems on a SEH (49.9CI) and most seem to perform well. Ralph Cook has waxed my azz with a single megaphone on his, 3 into one system from Hustler, John Sharp has beat me with his three Megaphone system from I think Ericone. Eric Vanover has beat us all with a wierd system made by I think Tim Kurz. Chenny Street had a similar one to Eric's but flows up out the top. Lopez had 3 expansion chambers on his and won some. I have won a few times with a slightly Modified Stock system. In fact, I tested it once then bolted the Mod 50 stuff on and speeds were about the same, well within 1 MPH.

[Mark75H]

Sam, you got it! Kind of like firing 1-3-2 rather than 1-2-3. Depending on the engine this can help performance.

Jim, can you explain how & why to the naysayers?

[Fast Fred]

havein some trouble, and need some help.
I got a 19s powerhead, compleat, fresh, all new everything, nothing but the best. some shots of that.:cool:
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3724/newstuff30yo.th.jpg (http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newstuff30yo.jpg):eek: http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1229/mod50mach1a2xu.th.jpg (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mod50mach1a2xu.jpg)
and it's goin on hearhttp://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7279/buff54rf.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buff54rf.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

best i can see the mod50 exhaust adapter will not fit the Stinger mid. anybody got any shots of a adapter thay made, or is thare an FT exhaust adapter, any pics of the mod50 adapter would be way cool:cool:
thanks
tryin to get to the kilo in FL next mo.:eek: ;) :cool:

[Ron Hill]

Fast,

You wouldn't happen to have a Nitro (40-75 HP OMC) test wheel, for sale, would you???

Any idea of the part number...?

[Fast Fred]

i don't have one, this ones comein off the dyno, the others go to the local test tank, thay got a wheel, thay set the timein for me and try to find something wrong with it, keeps me in check:cool:

[Barry Strawn]

Ron - test wheel is #386950 and I don't have one either.

[Fast Fred]

seems that it's the Modifided Mod50 adapter that brings them together, on it's
way,I knew thare was at least one:eek: :eek: :cool:

B.R.F.:) :cool:

[Fast Fred]

the last and final part is on it's way, DAM! about time.:eek: i'll get some pics of the Mod50 exhaust adapter and put them up. never did get a pic of a FT-19S
Mod50, but i think this one will be every thing it was and then some.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

Ok Exhaust lets have a look at that
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/2998/p32200017iv.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32200017iv.jpg)
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/4205/p32200040op.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32200040op.jpg)
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2528/p32200069di.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32200069di.jpg)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/550/p32200076ea.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32200076ea.jpg):eek: :cool:

[David_L6]

What does the part of the tuner that goes down into the leg look like?

[Fast Fred]

it's not in focus just yet, hang on, a day or so;) :cool:

[David_L6]

it's not in focus just yet, hang on, a day or so;) :cool:

Get an autofocus camera. :D ;)

[Fast Fred]

i got it, thay had cut it off, i did send out the adapter to be tricked out for top mounts, and to get the thing on the dyno. i'll snap some pics for ya this afternoon:cool:

[Fast Fred]

see how these look:eek: :cool:
http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/4079/p40100032sj.th.jpg (http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100032sj.jpg)
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9535/p40100066rl.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100066rl.jpg)
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/4907/p40100050kk.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100050kk.jpg)

[David_L6]

Not much to that thing is it? Does it actually help (or could you cut it off and run just as well without it)?

Don't know why but I was expecting to see a megaphone shaped part..........

[Fast Fred]

this is what i'm seein, i think, the scaviging effect is happinin right in front of the exhaust port window( the sound wave reflection) the rest is the quickest way out with some backpresure and so it don't roast the water pump.:cool:
so the exhaust plate is the expantion can, think thats what i'm seein:eek: :eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

happy b-day Mark75H:cool:

[Ron Hill]

Those guys going about a hundred in Formula E, seem to have a CAn for exhaust...Does anone sell theose things?

[Fast Fred]

was it like this :cool:

[Roy Hodges]

I don't know about you guys, but i'm getting a bunch of ads on the "image shack" that is supposed to have his pics .

[Fast Fred]

ya , glichinout over thare some times, :eek:

[Roy Hodges]

did they run yer mota on the dyno , yet ? Got results?

[Fast Fred]

no:( :( :( :( :( : thinkin two or three more weeks:cool:

[Mark75H]

Those guys going about a hundred in Formula E, seem to have a Can for exhaust...Does anyone sell theose things?I think Ed the Sled Runne is the one who makes them ... I think I heard he gets a grand installed

[Fast Fred]

sendin this up for a dyno pull,
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9002/p41000074xm.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p41000074xm.jpg)

it would not be a good compairison to an FE with mod exhaust I don't think.
Cheater Moda:eek: :cool:
it's more Mod50 than FE, any way, I'm thinkin a FE with a Mod EDtheSled Exhaust 83-85hp, hows that sound? about right ya think?:cool:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4575/p41000087ii.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p41000087ii.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

Roy, that box find ya? got the one you sent, the thing is mint, thanks:cool:

Capnzee, you out thare, sent boath set ups and a bace gasket, cuz i'm not sure witch set up you started with, let me know, :cool:

[Mark75H]

it's more Mod50 than FE, any way, I'm thinkin a FE with a Mod EDtheSled Exhaust 83-85hp, hows that sound?

I think at least 10hp more for the current FE's. If your motor is more Mod 50 than FE, it oughta make well over 100, right?

I hope whoever does your dyno run gives you both the raw data and the "corrected" hp data. If they only give you one it is most likely the "corrected" data and you should ask for the raw torque numbers as well.

[Fast Fred]

well can't say i dont like the sound of that, on my 19s, exspectin it to take the Dyno to places no other 3cyl outboard powerhead has ever takin it, :eek: :cool: not sure on the Super Stinger, not too sure she can move enuff air to make more than like102-105.:cool:

[Roy Hodges]

[QUOTE=Fast Fred]Roy, that box find ya? got the one you sent, the thing is mint, thanks:cool:


I got it for sure ; it's fine . Hope to install it real soon. Thanks again -Roy

[Fast Fred]

ok ,corrected hp, thinkin takes 8hp off to get to the prop shaft with about 5ft.lb. O' torque, thay are not over a 1000ft up at the dyno so not exspectin a drop in hp thare:cool:

[Mark75H]

No, you are sort of mixing prop shaft hp vs powerhead hp and corrected hp .... I'm talking about the actual torque readings vs "corrected" to standard atmospheric ... sort of a "fudge factor"

Ask for the actual dyno numbers as single dots on a graph or a list of actual torque numbers at specific rpms with no correction factor. Also ask for the barometric pressure, humidity and temperature at the beginning of the run and end. Without the conditions, the "correction factor" is meaningless (except as a "feel good" number to make you happier with spending $$$$).

[Fast Fred]

well kinda lookin at it like this, on race day the barOmeter bein up or down
every ones guna climb or fall by that %, on that particular Dyno thare have Been 3cly powerheads that have gone on to lay down Law in thare Class,
thinkin thoughin Down more HP and Boot LBs than any of them, corrected or ,.
ya maybe "feel good numbs' " the kind that make Drool run down yourface:eek::eek: :eek: :eek: :cool:

i'll get all that info:cool:

[JohnsonM50]

this is the reed blocks of the 19s
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7559/dcp077709eu.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp077709eu.jpg)

Fred, those are 2 stage reeds ? and Im guessin at least the top is carbon fibre? Next Q is would removing or cutting back stops on metal reeds be more risky? understanding that if a metal reed lets go you got a problem but I mean likelyhood of breakeage ?

[Mark75H]

Exactly correct.

Reed stop is a misnomer, they stop harmonic vibration of the reed, not limit opening distance (on most motors). On a few motors Mercury lowered the stop height to reduce the power in a second tier motor (115 vs 135, etc), but I do not know of any other motors where the maker set them lower causing a power decrease. Generally reed stops are there to increase reed life, no other reason. If you want the reeds to break, by all means, remove the "stops"

Boysen "Dual Stage" type reeds are their own vibration dampeners and probably don't need stops on most motors

[Ron Hill]

On the two stage Boysen Reeds, does the fuel go through the reed itself and does the bottom reed ever open???

Seems like opening the hole in the thicker reed would increase flow???

I do know, that my dad always took the minus on a reed stop...like plue .025 minus .025..He'd go for the minus...He never believed that a reed could open and close fast enough....but he did like the reeds to seat on the blocks. There were engine builders that "pre" loaded the reeds and they never closed...bitch to start and spit gass back through the carbs...

[Fast Fred]

two Stinger powerheads side by side, same everything, but one with reedstops,
one without, same load on each, ( reeds should be seated, or you are waistin power) we make a pull on each same time, reedstop moda peaks, nostop moda pulls 4-500 more rpm:eek: :eek: :cool: .

all the reeds get openin, seems thay did add stops to the 19s powerhead,and the 31m blocks i got do have stops.:cool:

[NERSTROM]

All the 3-cylinder race engines had stops. Mark 75 is correct on the function of the reed stop. Stop height and shape are very important. Early M50 engines used 0.010" thick stainless steel reeds, each reed was measured. Reeds which measured 0.0098" would break, reeds which measured 0.0102" would never break. We always used 0.0100/0.0102. We went to Boyensen reeds once we found a design which made more power than the steel reeds. Did a lot of work with Eyvind to find materials and upper/lower thickness which would work. Power on the engines got better over the years, Tradewinds 19S made 95hp at the propshaft, M31 was in the high 120's at the propshaft. The only way to compare day to day tests is to use corrected numbers. True, on race day everyone sees the same weather conditions, but for development you have to correct.

[Fast Fred]

talked to Mike about corrected numbers , said the computor corrects the atmosphere data at the time of the pull to the national bace line.

can you tell us about secandary 2bbl carbs, did they make a set of 1 1/4" with secandarys?
thanks
FF:cool:

[NERSTROM]

We tested just about every carb combination you could think of at the time. It was possible to see a few more horsepower with a larger carb but when tested on the race course lap times would always suffer. Just not enough signal per cylinder to make the larger carb work well. We did find that "buzz bottles", like those used on snowmobiles helped acceleration.

[JohnsonM50]

Exactly correct.

Reed stop is a misnomer, they stop harmonic vibration of the reed, not limit opening distance (on most motors). On a few motors Mercury lowered the stop height to reduce the power in a second tier motor (115 vs 135, etc), but I do not know of any other motors where the maker set them lower causing a power decrease. Generally reed stops are there to increase reed life, no other reason. If you want the reeds to break, by all means, remove the "stops"

Boysen "Dual Stage" type reeds are their own vibration dampeners and probably don't need stops on most motors

Thanks,, um I mean no thanks. My choice of motor havin petal reeds smaller at the base, harmonic vibes would probably involve twisting, [even a back yarder like me knows how much faster that would break em.] Im just tryin to learn from the wealth of knowledge that is you guys.

[Mark75H]

Jim, you got me thinking about the M31 block again ... putting the exhaust on the other side took advantage of the reversed firing order, but if that was the main advantage you could have just run the original block backwards. Now I'm thinking the exhaust on the other side was just one of several things that were different. Did the M31 block give more room for a bigger exhaust chamber under the same cowl, too?

[David_L6]

We did find that "buzz bottles", like those used on snowmobiles helped acceleration.

What is a "buzz bottle"?
(I live in Louisiana. We've heard of snow and snowmobiles........)

[NERSTROM]

The exhaust was put on the other side to take advantage of the piston thrusting against that side on the downstroke for a better seal. This does not change the tuning effect due to firing order, still the same 1-2-3. When testing V6's we had noted that one bank always made more power than the other.

[Fast Fred]

What is a "buzz bottle"?

i think it's a chamber on the side of the intake, not sure if it 's before or after
the reed block, seen one on a Yamaha, looked like a oil jug stickin out the side of the ruba intake.:eek:


take advantage of the piston thrusting against that side on the downstroke for a better seal.
some one told me that was why that was done, for the seal.

[Fast Fred]

ok, talk about some cranks for this power,
hears the two to choose from
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4743/p71000083ou.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p71000083ou.jpg)
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2268/p71000094rf.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p71000094rf.jpg)
got to run for now, but i'll get back and talk about the dif' between the two:cool:

[Fast Fred]

ok, hears what i know about the two, (top pic) the one on tne right is cast,
made from a molten mix , pored in to a sand mold, lite machineing, hard cromed,
it's give away mark is the hollow throughs, and the finish of the counters.
light weight, reg- med duty.
on the left is Forged, a piece of stock is heated cherry glowin red, it is tranfured
to a press ware it is pressed with a bunch of tons of psi, until it is condenced
in to a smaller workable shape, machined off , hard cromed.
give away marks, hevy machine work on counters, no hollow throughs.
heaver than cast, as bullet proof as it gets:cool:

[David_L6]

Is the forged crank really necessary?

I don't know what the Formula E / Super E guys are running, but I don't remember ever hearing of broken cranks. See sheared Woodruff keys once in a while though.

[David Mason]

One has better balance than the other. Still not good by any stretch of the term. The dam things still will vibrate like crazy. OMC tolerences are rather generous.

I think Ralph sheared the key in his engine at Centrallia on Sunday. We could not get it started for SER. Looked and the timing was way off, and it bit the crap out of us while trying to crank it.

[Mark75H]

It only takes a little rust to mess up the tapers on the end of the crank and flywheel ... stopping you from properly seating them together. If they've been apart for any period of time it is good practice to lap them with a little compound to assure you have the flywheel properly seated on the crank to avoid shearing the Woodruff key.

[Fast Fred]

bullet proof as it gets is good for me, first factory race moda i ever had, broke it about hr 5, $ucked , no fun, fun over:eek:

[David_L6]

One has better balance than the other.

Which one? (I'd guess that it really doesn't matter in FE/SE as you can have the parts balanced. Just curious.)



I think Ralph sheared the key in his engine at Centrallia on Sunday. We could not get it started for SER. Looked and the timing was way off, and it bit the crap out of us while trying to crank it.

Yes, the key in Rotten Ralph's motor sheared Sunday at Centralia. I still have a sore paw to prove it! :eek: (It bit me before you and your Dad came over to help.)

[Fast Fred]

cryo ther key, all modas have a low speed and a high speed vibration. with balance you can move it and or smooth it.:cool:

then i fixed that racin Yamaha outboard, Fun on:eek: :cool:
many moons ago.

[David Mason]

Which one? (I'd guess that it really doesn't matter in FE/SE as you can have the parts balanced. Just curious.)

The newer style crank is better balanced from the factory, but it still has some crappy vibrations to it.

Yes, the key in Rotten Ralph's motor sheared Sunday at Centralia. I still have a sore paw to prove it! :eek: (It bit me before you and your Dad came over to help.)

That was you cranking the beast.... hehehehehe. Ya, I saw it snap a couple times.... figured something was up.

[Fast Fred]

Ok, seems the mod50's the 19s and the 31m each take a dif' starter.
anyone Know for sure what the difrances are? looks like if i move the front tab,
the one with the single bolt, forward and a bit lower, that would work.
any info would be cool, or if you got a #388338
thanks
FF:cool:

[Fast Fred]

ok, lookin at the 31m exhaust, and the 19s exhaust, the 19s aint got no Squese,:eek: seems I got to get one in thare, any pointers?:cool:

[NERSTROM]

Fred, they all got squese!

[Fast Fred]

thinkin she needs some more right ware it turns in to the adapter thinkin 100%to
about 55-65% then back to 100%, stock it looks like 100% to maybe 80% in the
turn into the adapter then back to 100%:cool:

[Fast Fred]

hear we got a Factory Mod50 head,
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/48/98901de4.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=98901de4.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

Ya, stuck it.
we see that the water passes goin back to the adapter are closed,
all the water is dumped off the head cover.:cool:
Center section is Dry

[Fast Fred]

anybody Know if they Made ( the Factory) a
Mod50 FT( shiftable foot) 31M:cool: just in case i need one:eek: :eek:

[Fast Fred]

I'm thinkin no on the 31m FT,cuzz thares no toob for the shift rod. I can make one.:cool:
any way, baffels, also called stuffers, for the carbs,they keep the gas in the bowl ware it needs to be. RED would indicate alcohol resistant.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5940/5b941ev8.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5b941ev8.jpg)
as opposed the White, witch is for fuel.:cool: :eek:

[Fast Fred]

on page 5 of the 1976, OWNER MANUAL AND PARTS CATALOG, theres a note,
says

"if alcohol Fuel is to be considered, wright to factory for special alky carbs,
fuel pump rebuild kits and full instructions for use."

lookin for them instructions, any year:cool: :eek:
thanks
FFX-61

[Fast Fred]

today, the bay is frozen still, about 1/4 mi. out,

lookin at the Homologation Sheet for OMC race Modas, in 1976 the FR-19s is listed and a FT-19s, no FT-31m Listed any year.


ice, the limitin factor.

[NERSTROM]

The alcohol kit was usually used in Europe for the OE Class. Kit included larger jets and "Gross-jet" needle seat assembly. Pump kit was just rubber material which would tolerate the alcohol. Best performance gain was had when compression ratio was increased and spark timing changed.

[Fast Fred]

was thinkin that the carbs i got would have the alcohol jets in them cuzz thay got the alcohol stuffers, and thay apear to be untouched, was thinkin the timin would need to bump up, could you say how much psi at crankin speed on gas, and then on Alcohol,
thanks:cool:

[NERSTROM]

There is some misconception on the stuffer, color did not mean gas or alky. Early stuffers were one color later ones another, no more-no less. ABPA MOD 50 was a gasoline only class. UIM OE was Alky until about 1978 or 1979 when the rules changed and it became gasoline. The FR-19's were all built for gasoline. Some European racers wanted to run with alcohol so the conversion kit was made and supplied to them. We never tested compression using cranking psi, too many variables to be accurate. We only used cc volume measured to the top of the spark plug hole. The MOD 50 engines with pressed in sleeves were a lot better than the cast blocks.

[Fast Fred]

so sounds like these carbs are most likely gas,thats cool:cool: , and the stuffers,:eek: well, yup gots some. that clears that up.
would you say 22-24cc on gas?

i do have one of them thare press in cases, with the strightin front 1/2's,got them carbs for it, guna have new liners put in it shortly, lookin a round for the exhaust plates for it, i've collected about every thing else for it.

[Fast Fred]

be getin some shots soon, of an FT, in MOFO'in Action:eek: , although, not on my hull:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

What did the reed cages look like in those mota's

[Fast Fred]

page two, runin two stage, no stops:cool:

[Fast Fred]

lookin for some help on OMC carb jets, main jets- what is the deference between a "C" jet and a "D" jet.


ever see a set of OMC 2BBL's with jetted nozzles?
thanks
FF

[Detroit Whitey]

OK this is kinda how i heard it.It`s a flow thing say if you have a Djet wich i see as a hi speed the flow would go through the sloted side and out the smooth end.As for C`s it gonna go the other way and i see them running on the small side like for intermeadate or small carbs.One of the GOD`s of omc would have a more detailed answer!!!!!Have you been out yet there freddy?I took the twisted blue trucker out last weekend WOW!! hard to handle and goes like hell. let me know hows it going for ya Happy easter:eek:

[Fast Fred]

still cold hear, the water is about 38-40 deg, the fishin dudes around hear say
that gives ya about 20mins to live if ya get tossed:eek:

your right it's a flow thing on the jets, got any .130 thou' main nozzles, i needs some:eek:

[Fast Fred]

Mr.NERSTROM
you out thare?
putin a set of these hear on a 19s
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7354/8001011pg6cl2.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8001011pg6cl2.jpg)
thinkin they should not stick in to far, just after the reed blocks.
any help would be good
thanks
FF
:eek:
:cool:

[Roy Hodges]

Why can't you just shoot in the mix into the intake (front ) of the carbs? i saw an OMC factory setup (nitrous) on a 75 horse stock SPORT E back in 1976 , it was 30 horse gain , really worked well.

[Fast Fred]

you can dust it in the airbox, but on a big hit it tends to freeze the reeds open
and the cyl drops,:eek:

[Skoontz]

Are you adding more fuel at the same time you add the N.O.?

[Fast Fred]

Skoontz
Are you adding more fuel at the same time you add the N.O.?

ya, if you don't it will just blowup as soon as the NOS hits. the nozzle smashes
the fuel and the NOS together, atomizes it.:cool:

[Roy Hodges]

you can dust it in the airbox, but on a big hit it tends to freeze the reeds open
and the cyl drops,:eek:....................................... .................................................. .................................................. ....................In THAT case, i assume your BIG HIT is much more than 10 horses per cylinder.

[Fast Fred]

ya, lookin for the Big hit, talkin "Funny Boat":eek: with 3cyls:cool: all within the rules, Rule number 1, thare are No rules.:eek: :cool:

[NERSTROM]

Fred,
The first time we used NOS we just shot it in front of the carb inlet. Ran a fuel line and NOS line. Ran this at St. Louis on the V6 the same year Mercury came with brakes. Later units were put into the intake manifold just in front of the reeds. Never had a problem with reeds freezing open. Drivers only used the gas out of corners. Boost of 50% was easy, but had to be careful, too long on the button and motor would blow. I would not spend the money on the trick nozzle, all gets mixed at the reeds. Unlimited started running NOS and kept adding bottles until they could run most of a race on the button, eventually blew all the motors and had to go to turbines.
Good Luck

[Fast Fred]

i've noted, that in the 1/4 mile, lightin off the Nos from the startin line out the backdoor( never lettin off the NOS) that freezin of the reeds happens, stickin open, and the cyl goes out, seems all reddy gots them thare snozzels:eek:

thanks
FF:cool:

[Fast Fred]

my uncle Willy is on at 9 tonight on the History channel:cool:

[Fast Fred]

:cool:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1441/p5040017cy1.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5040017cy1.jpg)
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9723/p5040010lv3.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5040010lv3.jpg)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3529/p5040012xl6.th.jpg (http://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5040012xl6.jpg)
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6087/p5040014kb6.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5040014kb6.jpg)
all grade 8 hardware:eek:

[Roy Hodges]

I especially like that solid top mount . did you make it from scratch ?................................................. ..........for those who want top quality grade 8 bolts , your caterpillar dealers sell them , at reasonable price, & it's not chinese or other foreign sub-standard stuff.And, my cat dealer used to have very good stock,or overnight ordering, and could special order grade 12 in 2-3 days, also reasonable prices .

[Fast Fred]

i made it, it's got a 1/2 alu' backin plate under it, to sandwich it all together.
made this one for the CC FT adapter,
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/954/p4120003vi8.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4120003vi8.jpg)
it's the one in back, it'a a dry block, water only comes in, then dumps out the head:cool:

[Fast Fred]

thinkin i mite just paint the mid and LU white, allready all set with buffin :eek:

[Fast Fred]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9514/p5050011cq7.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5050011cq7.jpg)

doses look good in Buff, but thinkin she be better off with a white mid and foot
up hear at the Stellwagon
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4835/p5050009aq9.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5050009aq9.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

got hear a factory Mod50 19S Power-Head Base gasket, New of course:)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4354/p5100001pa8.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5100001pa8.jpg)
this dude was lookin to mix it up with my mid section,:eek:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3478/p5100006qo7.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5100006qo7.jpg)
and, got the attack angle corrector, makin chips on it, almost got a 1/2 gal of fuel out of it.
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3338/p5100011nd0.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5100011nd0.jpg)

[Roy Hodges]

and, got the attack angle corrector, makin chips on it, a................................................. ...................................
O K, I'll bite- What is an "attack angle corrector?". part of a GUN BOAT ?

[Fast Fred]

no guns, just that 12 gauge hand gun, flare thing, no range for it, or is thare;)
it's a wedge, to correct the angle of the drive, so when she climes on the bubble (about 50-55mph, whos hull,with who in it),so she don't want to keep climbing out and pull the drive out, brakin the bubble causes the hull to slow down. flyin the canard looks cool, but it's not fast, flyin the hull with just a tuch
of bow+, compressin the bubble under the hull and applyin the drive at a horizontal angle, this is a better bet for FAST. no T&T on an SLT, just slows it down:cool:

[Fast Fred]

so i can stay On it, i made this heat deflector for the water pump, a buddy got a SST60, said he melted the water pump once.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/862/p5040012zo9.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5040012zo9.jpg)
thinkin if it gets blasted out by the shockwaves, it should fall into the LU out of the way, the pump will have to fend for it's self at that point:eek:

[Fast Fred]

Gots Candy? Oh ya:eek:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/627/p5250008nz0.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5250008nz0.jpg)
you gots too get sum
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3407/p5250009di8.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5250009di8.jpg)
:eek:

[Fast Fred]

David, easyer this way,
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1302/p5250012ba4.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5250012ba4.jpg)
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2627/p5250013lm7.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5250013lm7.jpg)
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7853/p5250014zv8.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p5250014zv8.jpg):cool:

[David_L6]

Finger ports higher than intakes? :confused:

[Jeff Akers]

That doesn't look like any of the Mod 50 port maps that I have seen:confused:

These pistons he posted seem to have the finger port transfer hole in a lower position than I have seen also.....Fred, doe's this have somthing to do with the addition of the Nitro ?

[Fast Fred]

i seen the finger port timin on some like that, the idea is that the exhaust is shorter on the lower cyls , more finger port timin is added to fatten the lower cyls up on the high rpm side of things, thats the idea.


nice pistons, thinkin, that the top pin length had a lot to do with ware the finger tranfurs ended up:eek: , ya thats what i'm thinkin:cool:

[Roy Hodges]

in the top right of the bottom picture - it looks like slag in the casting ! YUK ! .......I am refering to #187 pics from fast fred

[Fast Fred]

just exhaust spooge, glass beeda eat that right up, that is the way i found her,
came in with a small pile of udder stuff:cool:

[Roy Hodges]

just exhaust spooge, glass beeda eat that right up, that is the way i found her,
came in with a small pile of udder stuff:cool:....................................... .................................
I have one "udder" question; what are the differences between the 65 H P, 70 H P, & the 75 H P (50 CUBE) blocks?

[Fast Fred]

between the 70 and 75, seems to be the exhaust, the bevel on the top of the port and the notch in the second exhaust plate. i don't know for sure on the 65,
i hear it's got no boots port, just take the fly wheel :eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

Then I just talked with a friend of a friend here in California who was singing the praises of his zapcat and I believe he got it from you along with some monsterous tuned Yamaha 70.


:cool:
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1382/boat11kl9.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boat11kl9.jpg)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9278/boat13ds5.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boat13ds5.jpg)
No can get From the Yamaha Factory, Ever.:eek:

[Fast Fred]

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2250/p6280001xu3.th.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p6280001xu3.jpg)
:cool:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3433/p6280003po3.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p6280003po3.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

the Hustler mid comes down, and the FT mid goes up
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1962/p7040001cw6.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7040001cw6.jpg)
and on that i've set a Mod50 Powerhead:eek: :cool:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3098/p7070005zh7.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070005zh7.jpg)
with 3 vary big and tricked out carbs
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9245/p7070004gd7.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070004gd7.jpg)
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6060/p7070007rb7.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070007rb7.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

vary big, vary tricked out carbs, yes yes, cuzz you gots too have those:eek: :cool:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1003/p7070008uu4.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070008uu4.jpg)

[Fast Fred]

and, yes got more, and we hit the Fuel, then the FIRE
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3879/p7070009er8.th.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070009er8.jpg)
and we're Rollin
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8026/p7070010mw7.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070010mw7.jpg)
check the flywheel:eek:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8868/p7070012zn6.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070012zn6.jpg)
whatchewgot!:cool:

[JohnsonM50]

ya can almost hear it. :cool:

[MN1]

Come on Fred! Stick that mota on the Tuba and go for a Blast!!
Mark

[Fast Fred]

this powerhead is not mine, i built it for a friend, but i do have another, for that Blast. i need to pull a Stinger outa my hat just yet,really a Mod Stinger:cool: seems like it's a good time rig the hull for that BLAST.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

ok, launch is eminent, Got the Monsta tach with carbon fiber face and Must-tard colored bezel, ya you gots to have that:eek: ,
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8968/p7150005ia7.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7150005ia7.jpg)
then, well my sailboat is not to good, think it's called a "Full Purchase" block,
this will eliminate Torque transmited into the handle,
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4704/p7150002hz1.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7150002hz1.jpg)
then gots the Ranchairo 4x4 pickup truck steerin dampner, this will allso lessin feed back in to the handel,
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6507/p7150006qq3.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7150006qq3.jpg)
then i ratchet strap the gas can to the hull, it keeps me from gettin pinned on the transom, Cuzz She like to try to get out from unda ya.
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6746/p7150007zz6.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7150007zz6.jpg)
:eek:

[Fast Fred]

Sports drink:eek:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6835/p7150009kn1.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7150009kn1.jpg):eek: :eek: :cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

looks like you should check if you can steer that thing or the ELBOW is gonna eat that mako for breakfast thats if you show:rolleyes:

[Fast Fred]

thats all tryed and true tested set up, not only will it turn, it will out turn most.
just changed out my sheared keyway, gots to bail out my best prop:eek:, see if i can pull it together.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

OK, gots bulletin for yas, on these pistons, just somethin to look for.
we see the top gap scuffin on the side of the boost port, this will Kill it's self.
Not Aloud. Top-pins are nessasary on this Moda. maybe on yours too:eek: :cool: http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8360/p7250004gz8.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7250004gz8.jpg)

[Mark75H]

Are you going to get a chance to put a motor on a boat and race this year, Fred?

[Fast Fred]

i do believe i will get that chance this year, as i'm sure you Know bit more to it than just puttin on the brain bucket:eek: if and when the chance arises i Will grasp it with both Hands, Don't count on me Blowinup :cool:

[Fast Fred]

incedently, with a sponcered Tow, i'd drive it like it was Yours:eek: which i guna do any way, just self sponcered. " I am my own Best Sponcer ":eek: :o :cool:

[Fast Fred]

someone was askin "why", don't know for sure, thinkin that the boost port alinement has a tolerance on just ware it should be, like within .030 left or right of X,
these bein max right.
US1 will fix them:cool:

[mr_velocity]

someone was askin "why", don't know for sure, thinkin that the boost port alinement has a tolerance on just ware it should be, like within .030 left or right of X,
these bein max right.
US1 will fix them:cool:

Come on fred you know what pics I wanna see :rolleyes:

[Fast Fred]

them Dragsta dudes are hoggin the bore machine, just need them to hand it over,fresh water cases showed up on fri, they are bein ported, all most done.
lookin to trade up at the machine shop on mon, if all goes well yous guys will be boltin it on before ya see it hear, tryin for fri to ya, see how it goes:cool:

[Fast Fred]

Hey Whitey,
watch your exhaust bridges, i don't see no way to oil them, so you GOT TO back them out of the bore, so When they heat up they don't choke the bullet in the bore:cool:

[Fast Fred]

:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

YO!!! Fred
been a long time.Ran the stroker in trenton had the exhast all wrong and the prop was to big took the hole corse to get it up in the r`s. But i got that takin care of.Now if i was a betin man i would say it`s gonna be another year at TOP O without the fred? all ready did the briges thank`s for that one i soften those a while back. when this thing hit`s 65hundo it just keeps on a going to the freakin moon baby! i try to keep it down till i need it. got to go if ya anit goin you SUCK!!! If you do show I`ll buy ya a drink or whatever!
XOO:D

[Fast Fred]

not lookin good for me. just as well i guess, my power head would not have made it to the turn on Mullett,:mad:

[Fast Fred]

:( :mad: , well what to do, Fix it and keep tryin to get thare:cool: what else is thare?:cool:


can't say for sure i'd be thare if this was not the case, sure seemed to nail it shut though, workin on Top-pins, hand mapped top-pins, kinda thin between the crown and the top ring see how that works out.

[Fast Fred]

hey Whitey
thinkin that you went in the direction we talked about last with the exhaust,
dumpin the water off the head and dryin out the exhaust may work also.
by plugin the two lower holes in the head, under the water cover, and putin in a
1/2 nipple, in the Mod50 FT mid, thares a hole in the pickup toob that pees on the pump. lookin like this one. that no.15 i think, Hull is lookin fast.:eek: :cool:
Kick some A.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9595/p7070012re0.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7070012re0.jpg)

[Roy Hodges]

Be careful, don't fall off !

[Fast Fred]

Roy Hodges , Be careful, don't fall off ! ya, that ship has long since sailed:eek:

Whitey, whats the scoop:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

Another tuff year at topo.I ended up 3rd both days behind berg and laurer won it again.But both of the motors i built made it. So that for me was a win hek i even got in the m0ney!!! The B52 was in a bad crash and were hurt bad think there still in the hospital but they are alive good for that. i still need a dang prop some one one this site has to have somethig for what we run o well had a great time once again o yhea i saw berg hit the water that was funny and he still beat me that little $hit :D

[Fast Fred]

ya seen the burg go whippin by one season, was floatin in front of the camp ground on Mullet, they pulled a hair pin turn, got chucked. they was back in the boat and goin in about 15-20 secs.
i hear she got hurt the most, :(

[Fast Fred]

Top pin Mod50 pistons, ya we gots um:eek:


one big secret, the angled exhaust bridges of the 49cuber, cuzz ya can't oil them, heat becomes a big factor, you Must push them out, it's not mabe.:cool:
on the magawa moda, thay changed the bridge to vert, then you can oil it.:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

Freddy gots a real good 56 lookin to mod got any portin ideas want to go balls out on this one.sick of the stingers great play mota but not what i want . let me know give me a call 7346241696 or call me at the shop 3138420101 Latter!!!:D

[Fast Fred]

make it look like this, oil the bridge, should turn no.3 exhaust down for maximum a$$ kickige:eek:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8584/p1100017wv9.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1100017wv9.jpg)
:cool:

whatsup Buckwheat:eek: :D :cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

Otay what about running some fingers in these? and got any idea where i can get an adaptor??

[Fast Fred]

you gots to have finger ports:eek: you want the ring gap to run dead center in the finger port if you can get it, finger ports open at side transfure port timin,
the Mod 50 map would work or the other side of the cyl above which is lookin like this
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7951/pc290012xf1.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc290012xf1.jpg)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

made this 56 addapter from one off a 20" mid, just decked it down to the same as the Stinger addapter and gave it some trix:eek:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9199/p4120003bt2.th.jpg (http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4120003bt2.jpg)
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1053/p4120005lc2.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4120005lc2.jpg)
:cool:

[tsrt]

Next is the Manawa motor:eek: , got to take some pic of it,:cool:
Fast Fred,

Please email me topspeedracingteam@yahoo.com . I was thinking of sending sst60 powerhead to you for modification. It is outlaw in this class in our country. We can do anything to the powerhead. I’m located Malaysia. Many things to talk about!


Regards,
David
TOPSPEED RACING TEAM

[Detroit Whitey]

Fred i got to have one give me a price call me up .i would call ya but i lost your phone # any way i need a plate bad let me know

[Fast Fred]

i don't have an adapter to cut for ya Whitey, wasen't much to it, just decked it from the top, then painted the top with diekem and matched the gasket, then bolt on da pipe.

tryin to get excited about finishin my jalopeey. wrapin up some other stuff i gots on my bench.:cool:

on the finger ports for the 56, not too deep.

TOPSPEED RACING TEAM
hey, cool, i'll give ya a bump:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

what do you mean not to deep dont you have to go all the way through the sleave? Like on the 3.3liter blocks they have finger ports in em from bomb and they look like mini intake ports.keep a eye out for a adaptor plate for me

[Fast Fred]

cuttin right through, but not too deep in to the alu.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5236/transferportsvd6.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=transferportsvd6.jpg)
V8 fingers:eek: :cool:

[Fast Fred]

well lookin for some one who, would have been assemblin Mod 50 powerHeads at the factory. and what was the Factory spec on the first model on the exhaust bridges, i'm thinkin they brushed them back:cool: or maybe not, maybe i'm leanin on it too much:eek: :cool:
thanks
FF

[Fast Fred]

thinkin that info is lost too time, guess i'll just go with what i know:eek:

[NERSTROM]

Early Mod 50's with two port bridges did not have any special honing done to them when produced. Factory (OMC Race Group) modified motors had the bridge ground away from the piston. Not exactely sure what your failures are but piston fit is critical, too tight it sticks & too loose it sticks. If clearance gets over 0.0035 your done. You can expect one of the bridges to crack at some point. Motor will run without one of the bridges so long as what is left is ground to guide rings back into piston.

[Fast Fred]

they got Hot, swelled into the bore, she was guna stick. thinkin i'll bump up the jets. :cool:

Quote:
"Factory (OMC Race Group) modified motors had the bridge ground away from the piston."
as a rule, "if you can't oil it, you have to move it out"
that rule has all way kept me from driftin . piston to wall was, is good.

thanks
FF

[Fast Fred]

i have one more Q, on the first carbs for the Mod50, stock jets are .045 lowspeed, 40c highspeed by six, is thare a cut off point on how hard i can Lean on her from there? like no less than say just for sayin .040 on the low and 38c's on the high, bein at sea level:cool:

did you try stagered jet setups?:cool:

thanks
FFX-61

[Roy Hodges]

Question : what is the difference between a fishing 56 Cube 70 horse omc & the S S T 60 powerheads. i doubt that O M C would have built the sst60 with a fishing 70 horse powerhead. Must have been some differences ? P S : anybody else who KNOWS, feel free to speak up

[Fast Fred]

the head, the carbs, the adapter, the foot, hood and tray, steerin toob.
thats about it, thinkin the case was hand tuned. maked right about 85hp at the shaft.:cool:

[Detroit Whitey]

freddy call me up i got a price question 31357046910 thats new# they dont like water for some reason

[Fast Fred]

hey Whitey, whats the hot battery you runnin?, can't seem to find any Rules on it, thought once upon a time thare was some thin about gelcell only, i'm thinkin V twin Hog batt be gettin it:cool:

[Fast Fred]

after a few more reads, no rule on it that i can find, Hog batt it is.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8031/pa050006js6.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pa050006js6.jpg)
hey Whitey, see any fuel pump shutoff set ups? so the pump shuts down when i get chucked?:cool:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9015/pa050007el9.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pa050007el9.jpg)
:eek:

[Fast Fred]

gots the 65hp flywheel on there, it's about 3lbs heavier than the Mod50 fly wheel, thinkin the Mod50 flywheel was on the FT power head too.:cool:

[Jeff Akers]

Nice work Fred, I bet your triger finger is start'n to itch:D

Have fun and be safe !

[Fast Fred]

thanks, yup took a long while, but lookin like the boat i was thinkin of when i started, gots to spin the gas can around,:eek: tryin to work out the fuel PSI
on the rail, at 6, thinkin i'm poppin the needels:eek:

talked to them guys that got that 70hp case,(i put a 75hp cut on it), said they had it at 7000 flyin the hull into the wind, nice:) , spinin a tricked out Ron Hill 4 blade, Jacked to the top on one of them thare F'n Fred Nitro nose cone setups:cool: , good stuff.

Kilo, spring kilo:eek: :cool:

[mr_velocity]

I bet is looks something like this :cool:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/128/ffmotortp4.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2434/thunder1qw8.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2559/thunder2lt6.jpg

[Fast Fred]

nice boat, see about speedin up the drive shaft speed, say about a thousand
rpms. see what this looks like
http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/33789/2005496890013300640_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005496890013300640)

[Boatnut]

Tidy Fred, Damn Tidy:cool: