It was coool but it made me ill.....

[Skoontz]

I was out ion Valley Center over the weekend to see a buddy. For those unaware, Valley Center is the home of Meyers/Manx dune buggies and many gear heads from all venues.

So, on a trailer behind one of my buddies freinds trucks, sits an antique Midget race car from the 40's. And this guy bets me and whoever $100.00 we could never guess what kind of an engine was used to power the car.

I wish I was wrong....The engine was a vintage Evinrude 4-60 with a set of home made pipes. After I won the bet I offered to allow the guy to keep his money and I would just take the engine in trade....

What further blew me away was seeing many of the old photos, this was his dads car after the war. Almost every car running on the track had a 4-60 engine!

[Mark75H]

More than half of OMC's 4-60 production went directly to midget racing, they weren't scavenging from outboards

[Skoontz]

Man to hear a pack of those things running dry pipes rounding the turns must have been something!

[Mark75H]

I think if you check with Dudley Malone in OK City, he may be able to tell you where and when to hear a pack of mostly 4-60's racing

[Skoontz]

That's awesome!


What I really need to find is a whole other 4-60 race motor right now.

[racnbns]

If you can make it to the Tomahawk antique outboard meet I plan on running my 4-60 on my De-silva, wide cockpit[side by side] runabout. We may even give rides so come and have a ball!

Bruce Summers
V-71

[Skoontz]

Bruce, where is Tomahawk, in Wisc???? We used to canoe there if it is.
Wanna get sick? At our boathouses auction, I watched Dave Strauss, one of the locals buy my dads, Rocholt and the 4-60 with 5 props for $85.00.
I'de give anything for wild 4-60 ride!

[racnbns]

You probably did canoe up there. The Wisconsin river runs right through town and there are numerous lakes in the area. I shot the primer on the two man boat and have a week to shoot the color coat and rig it. In a week and a half it's off to Constantine, the nationals and Tomahawk if I can still move. The 4-60 has never been run. I may need one of the electric starters the guys are using to crank the beast. She's got lots of compression!

Bruce

[Skoontz]

That used to be an 8 hour drive from St. Charles, Illinois. All single lane roads through marathon county. There is this lodge/bar place where I was introduced to a coboy killer...Tequilla and Kalua on the rocks. 2 puts you in the trash can fast!

Far as the 4-60 goes, once you start them the first time, you can use a rope. Mine starts in 2 pulls after sitting 6 months. The condensers on that motor hold so much charge the spark can jump 2 inches no problem. We would charge them up and ground them on the tester and they sounded like a firecracker going off. Make sure you don't advance the spark too much while you start it, or it will kick back and break your arm.

[Tuneafish]

A friend of my family was one of the first to put OMC motors in midget race cars, his name was Doc Ayer and he was an engineer at OMC. He worked with my dad on a number of openwheel cars (my dad's business was building the cars) thruout the 50's and 60's. While growing up, Doc and I would have long talks about how engines worked. We spoke about things like valve timing, "loop-charging", tuned intake and exhaust. We even got into what 'special tricks' he knew for different fuels. It was great to be a high school kid and have a very respected race engine builder take the time to teach/discuss/explain, how motors worked. He never talked down to me, and always encouraged me to ask questions along with giving my answers to his questions. The number one thing I got from him was to always offer help to anyone who will listen. With his "lessons" in mind, I was able to build a 1966 Chevelle wagon with a 327 four speed. Soon after my 18th birthday I ran it at "Lyons" in Long Beach Calif., 12.01 @ 114 MPH. THANK YOU DOC! Thanks to all the RACERS over the years. I had to edit this post, because I misspelled Ayer not Eyre sorry.

[Skoontz]

Tuna:

Great story! My brother in law ran a 50's midget powered by a model 60 Ford V-8 and I watched him run against 89 cubic inch V-4 OMC motors at Illiana Speedway. They would run away from the pack until they hit lap traffic, or the field came under yellow, and they just could not accelerate as fast as the four strokers.

As far as Lyons goes, one of the greats, like Oswego went by the wayside. Another great track falls victim to NIBMBY's who knew damn wel that track was their before they bought their house, owned their beemer or got their first boob job.....

You would have enjoyed this.... Last year out in Fallbrook, the two guys who owned Dragmaster opened their shop for a car show. Many photos of their chassis. Since Don Prudohme lived about a miles from our house at the time, he appeared, his shop is just over in Vista. Along with the cars were a few select vintage race boats from that golden age. The boats were getting more looks than the cars it seemed

[Tuneafish]

Who built the car? My dad was the foreman at Kurtis for a number of years. He then went on to open his own "repair shop" only to have customers demand that he build them NEW cars with his new ideas. If your 'bil' had a driver operated weight jacker for the front axle, he can thank my dad.

[Skoontz]

Who built the car?

It was a Kurtis frame. 60 cubic inch Ford flat head V-8 out of a '32 B Ford roadster. Later they ran Sesco (sp) Chevies, which are still fairly competitive today.

[Roy Hodges]

Who built the car?

It was a Kurtis frame. 60 cubic inch Ford flat head V-8 out of a '32 B Ford roadster. Later they ran Sesco (sp) Chevies, which are still fairly competitive today.


Sorry, but it would have been a V-8 - 60 with 134 cubic inches (when stock)
( 60 horse power )

[Skoontz]

Got my numbers invewrted AGAIN! 60 HP, 134 cubes, right??? Funny engines those flatties. I saw a 327 cubic inch 350 HP flatty in a '49 Merc truck at cruise night. Only 300 of them ever built. That from a 134 cuber...Pretty crazy!

[Tuneafish]

That's funny, I always thought there were "V8 60's", 60 degree V block, and the larger "V8 90's" like the "big Merc 239" 90 degree motor. The "V8 90's" became the "Y block motors" (OHV) in 1954/55.

[Skoontz]

Ok Tuna, maybe I'm off here, but if the numbers you mention correspond to the degree of the Vee, then how would a model 85, model 100 and 120 fit in? We were at Cruise Night last night in Escondido, usually over 3000 cars every Friday. The Ford truck club was there, and among them were, a 60 in a '32 Ford pick up. Then jump a few years, a guy had a '39 Ford standard, that's the grille kind of oval with slats running horizontaly, that truck had a midel 85 in it. Then, the same guy had a '39 Ford Super Deluxe truck and the grille began looking like that famous '40 Grille, except, the slats ran horizonatally, and, it had a model 90 in it. Go to a '40 Super Deluxe, and it had a model 100 flatty. Jump to a '49 Merc pick up, it had a model 120, 327 factory cubes, 350 factory HP, 8 Stromberg 97's on a hand cast manifold, all factory....

I'm confuzzeled!

In 1944, Ed Iskanderian hand built and designed his own overhead valved heads for a flat head Ford V-8, which he sold as a hop up kit through Hot Rod magazine. Later, Ford bought rights to that kit or subcontracted him and that first group of overhead Ford Y blocks were actually converted flatty's. By '55, Chevy made the ever so popular 265 with it's rochester 4 barrel and dualies, and Ford had to make a real overhead to keep up. Chryselr had been making the Hemi since 1951, even though it was on Horace Dodges drafting table in 1935.

You can see Ed's creation at the Peterson museum in Pomona, and if you are at the races, it's free. There's some vry cool stuff there, including a couple very early blown SK boats.

[Pop990]

I raced a 40 ford coupe stock car when I was in high school, 1951. The first flathead ford came out in 1932. It was 21 stud (headbolt) and was 85 horse (3 1/16 bore-3 3/8 stroke) til 1946 when it became 100 horse with 3 3/16 bore. It stayed a flathead til 1954 when Ford made their first lame OHV motor. The hemi head conversions for the flathead were designed and built by Zora Arkus Duntov who later designed the small block Chevy and helped design the Corvette. The V/8 60 looked just like the others only was little bitty, I could pick one up. The only ones I ever saw in cars were in Bell Telephone 39 Ford coupes. They had a 4.44-1 rear end which we all wanted for stock cars. Bill Curtis

[Skoontz]

Bill:

Did you run up against the Hudson Hornets or were they in a different class? Dad had a friend who ran one. They had to get the car approved by the track officials and had no money, so they stole a swing set out of someones back yard and made a roll bar then padded it until they could afford a real one!

[Pop990]

I raced them in '57 with my '56 Ford at Missippi Valley State Fair in Davenport, Iowa, but my Dad's Dodge D-500 beat everybody back then. I lived in Illinois but a guy by the name of Bobby Christy from Grant's Pass, Or. came back there and really ran good with a Hornet. Those Hudson's ran amazing for a flathead 6.

[Skoontz]

To this date there are still numerous records on the Nascar books from the Hudson. 2 barrel card and I believe that engine was undersquared so it wound tighter than 6 bangers of the day. What a butt ugly ride though!

[Roy Hodges]

Had 308 cubic inches . 3 13/16 bore , 4.5" stroke . top rpm , according to ole smoke (smoky Yunick) was 4500 (maybe it was 4400 ) . He cheated brilliantly . had to , to run with the oldsmobiles , like he ported the block with a slurry pump he designed . made the ports LOOK "as cast " . he even tried a reverse ground camshaft , with a rear end that had been turned upside down , so the engine could run backwards , thinking it might help cornering .

[Skoontz]

Good ole Smokey...And Junior Johnson... The Chevelle which had 1.5 miles of 1/2" fuel ine in the car...Funny NASCAR said the template did not fit to DQ him...And when he took the template over to Buddy Baker, Richard
Petty and Cale Yarboroughs cars, those templates did not fit either...Yet they were allowed to run....

[Roy Hodges]

his chevelle wouldn't fit the templates , because it's body was only 5/6th scale of a real factory showroom stocker . you know he used , back in the mid 60's , a synthetic oil ( non- petroleum ) that cost $25 a qt. -THEN - ? he said after the daytona 500 , no measurable wear ? but the co. went out of business , not enuff people wanted to buy it .
I guess nascar didn't consider him one of "the good ole boys ?"