Super E/Formula E

[Tim Chance]

After a 15 year layoff, I'm going to climb back into the cockpit again next year. Super E (APBA FE). 3-cyl OMC. I've got most of the parts and a whole winter to put it together but there are things I just don't know, I just got back from the NBRA/ODA race at Shelbyville and figgured a lot out (not enough,I'm sure). The biggest difference I coud tell was exhaust. Everybody I talked to said exhaust was very important. I saw a 3 megaphone setup , one with 3 expansion chambers, Hustler exhaust, Mod 50 exhaust, and others that were similar with a manifold with a big volumn chamber and an outlet pointed down or back. I don't know where to start. I will be running with a 15:16 Konig lowerunit on a 250 Pugh Pro hydro. I'm clueless on exhaust. Who sells this stuff. Help. Thanks.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

I am into FE Merc 44s with 3 Super E / FE blocks with plans on plans. There is a large section on this website with the FE / SE guys on it with hundreds of things to read from beginings to cylinder mappings done along with exhaust tips and everything else. The thing about these 3 cylinder loop engines or for that matter the deflectors that are 3 bangers as well is they fire every 120 degrees and with in that there is "pulse tunning present" that is a block wave on the back of the exhaust wave by virtue of the 3 cylinder firing order. You have seen all manner of exhaust versionsm they are all affected with this one primary fact of 120 degree pulse tunning being there. On family as well as performance snowmo sleds the same fact exists but since they want a wider powerband there is the tendency to use these days a computer program to produce a single expansion chamber pipe that works for all 3 cylinders on a common cylinder linking manifold. Sure you can go 3 megaphones, collector with exhaust dump, Mod 50 style exhaust or 3 expansion chambers and they will all work depending on some other engine factors as intake, pistons, ports, prop, boat and setup. They are all big inch, internally and externally heavy and all work well for those already doing them for so long. I don't think anyone is going to hand you their speed secrets but there is a commonality to all of those 3 cylinder OMCs. Forget about 3 cylinder Merc or Mariner 2 carb deflectors, it has become OMC country. I kind of wonder though if a former 250CC alky boat is going to cut it because they the OMC 3s are quite heavy by comparissons and they will torque twist and severly vibrate the hull at times delivering that raw power. If you don't sink rearwards putting it in or getting mobile, question remains if the hulls integrity will remain? 3 cylinder OMC is a big jump and a very heavy weight one that must be factored in.

[Tim Chance]

David - Thanks, Do you have their address, phone #, e-mail, whatever so I can contact them.-Tim

[Tim Chance]

John - I went to the race at Shelbyville and there were quite a few ex-pro boats running in Super E. Plus Gary Pugh builds a good strong boat so I don't forsee and problems there. And I would rather run a boat that's a little on the small side (within reason) than one that is a little on the big side. You can always slow the small one down , but you can't speed the big one up. Besides, when I was young and dumb I ran a 4-carb D Konig on a 10-6 Sid Craft. Now I'm older, but just as dumb, and I have a ruputation to uphold.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

Sure Pugh builds a strong boat, to a point! lol! so did Schumaker and some others too. I sure did see some disintegrating, tumbling, flying and twisted lumber and sinking with a red helmet buried in the spray of all that too with Super E power, FE power and even 500 Alky power.

Some boats had their cockpits sectioned as a rebrace/bulkhead 2/3rds down the cockpit to counter engine torque twisting and others with braced transoms from near the ends of the afterplanes/non-trips angled to the transom as added anti-twisting struts just to hold the behemouth on the back as well as aluminum bracing on the inside of the transom going forward on the main cockpit girders to help. They are heavy and slowing down may not be enough once things start tearing apart and you start sinking. Give it all a good hard look anyway because they are that heavy.

Most of those OMC guys have some custom made FE/SE boats too being that there are some former Alky boats there too, still the OMC 3 is really heavy, real torquey, real powerful and the boat and driver have to respect that real hard. I lost 2 rear bottoms sections out of my Shumaker 500 Alky boat twice from the dumb useless Merc/Mariner 2 carb 3s being tested and ended sinking like a stone near the beach without drowning thank goodness and the boat was rebraced and bulkheaded too. I am keeping an eye out for something too future wise that won't spring leaks and come apart. :) Even the Mark 75 FE engine I have did not give that wrenching feeling those extreme top heavy 2 carb 3 cylinder Mariner/Merc direct charged did and it tall as it was, never broke anything! Those OMCs got more power but which vibrate worse or twisted more some say already??? I gave up on the Merc 75 and Merc/Mariner 3 cylinder 2 carb engines and I am going to go where you are with eyes more wide open than before too boot as a result.

Somewhere I got pictures of some rebraced and some disintegrated boats because of that OMC 3 cylinder power they were carrying. I am gonna dig them up just to look at them again.

[Tim Chance]

I've built about 40 boats in my life. All the way from 7-10 JSH to a 13' for 700 Hydro. My biggest claim to fame is that I built Tim Seebold's first boat and he won the first time he ran it. I was going to build myself a SE/FE boat and I have it all down on paper. It is much more substantial in the transom area for the added weight and torque. But I really don't have time to build it and I couldn't pass up the deal from Charley. I am going to beef it up where necessary. I'm also wondering, in as much as I'm bolting the motor on the transon ala Konig rather than using a clamp bracket, what heavy duty shock mounts would do??

[Mark75H]

I have had no trouble using an old 350 Pugh alky boat in FE. I even crashed it once and it took my 6 cylinder Merc along with it with no damage to the transom and just a little cosmetic damage to the deck at the back of one sponson. That was 2 years ago, I'm retiring it in favor of a Giles 250 laydown for no other reason than it's age.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

The Pugh came apart ( Carl Laverenz's) end to end went into a fast turn and wacked a hole in 500 ALky. It was 2 years old. It was in 2 major and 1 minor piece. I well remember Dave Storlene's OMC 45SS powered Butts hydro that was previously braced twist and blow apart on the water and that was its second time handling that engine torque that did it twice. There is circumstances where these boats got pushed over the edge of their limitations and broke. A Butts Aerowing Super C in 1978 ran fine without the secondary rear bulkhead in front of the gastank, the owner put a Merc 44 Modified on it, it twisted at near the transom, broke cockpit girders hooked and rolled. The driver felt the twisting straights into corners and out again. The cockpit bracing bulkhead was re-installed on its repair. Sure they were all good boats too, so why? Weight, power and racing conditions of the course and how the boat was driven. Super E with the OMC is pretty powerful and quite heavy, so be cautious is being prudent.

[crankbearing]

Hey Tim,

A neat Idea that one of our young (old) time boat racers did on his D-mod boat when he was building it was to incorporate an Aluminium rib that was integral to the transom and the rear of the boat it was milled full of holes to reduce weight in key places not to harm integrity and it even incorporated the clamp pads for the motor.. which was a neat touch. That would never come apart. I am building an FE boat for another racer this winter and was going to incorporate Carbon fiber in that area, but my panel builder does not do that anymore so it will be some kind of metal rib for rigidity across the back.. It will be a 6 cylinder MERC not a 3 holer..

Regards,

[crankbearing]

Forgot this in my other post, talking about putting some life into old Alky boats. I think to me wether right or not. many of the early boats had smaller bottoms 34" etc. Most of the new FEH boats are 38 or higher thus helping to absorb some of the big a$%%#@ powerhead getting around the corners.

Regards,

[Tim Chance]

Just measured mine. 35" bottom with a 13-1/2" x 3/4" tunnel. All I can do is bolt the monster on the back and see what happens.

[David Mason]

36" is a very nice width for a SEH. I have never run anything wider and don't have a lot of trouble with ET through the corners. I would not build anything much wider than 36" for a competition SEH/FEH. That is packing a lot of air and can lead to unwanted developments when gusts come around, or entering a corner.

[Mark75H]

Wider will not be a problem either. John Runne made one 40" wide and loved it ... planned on making the next one even wider. From what I saw of the 40" wide boat it had very good manners; as far as I know it is collecting dust

[crankbearing]

I do know of an FE boat that has 42" bottom and it is one of the most stable boats I have seen in the class. If you do build wider bottom 38,40 etc... Then there is nothing saying that you cannot take some lift OUT of it when you build it.

Regards,

[David Mason]

Take lift out, lose the Pop out of the corner in my opinion. Just in my opinion I think 36" is fine and wider is not needed in most cases.

Tim, Double up the cross frames in the transom, and the next two or three and your twisting and tweaking problems go away. If possible sandwhich some carbon and glass between them. It makes them unbelivablly strong. A cheaper way than carbon is to use some 5mm or 6mm plywood with the grain going the right way. This adds a lot of strength without adding a ton of weight. I have a Roper Hydro (currently MJR Composites) that is almot 14 years old, and it to this day has not tweaked. I ran that boat a LOT until a few years ago when I built myself a lighter boat. The old girl just gained to much weight over the years to ET out of the corner with me in it. Dad in it brought it back alive and won a race against the top competitors fairly easily.

Just some thoughts in case you decide to modify the hull you found. Yes, the OMC 3 Holers torq worse than almost any Alky, and vibrate....... my gosh, they shake until you hit RPM. I check all the nuts and bolts after every weekend, on the boat and motor. The newer style cranks are a little better than the older for balance, but they still are not good.

[17W]

973-948-8885

[David Mason]

If you need any help with something, give me a hollar, glad to help out if I can. Good to see ya at the NBRA race earlier this year. Should be fun mixing it up with you this next season.

[Ron Hill]

Are there any special serial number that are the one people want for a Formula E? I'm heading to Apple Valley Marine, this Friday, and would like to dig through a pile of motors, but don't want to dig out junk....

I know it is powerheads only, that are needed, but are there certain years that are in demand???

[David Mason]

Nothing special I know of. There are so many of them it is hard to find a bad one. Just get a 70 HP OMC. Call it a JohnRude if you want.

[NERSTROM]

Ron, this is insider information - the best blocks were always kept to build Evinrudes. Why do you think Jimbo was always so fast!!

[kevin beaulier]

Ron, this is insider information - the best blocks were always kept to build Evinrudes. Why do you think Jimbo was always so fast!!
I always thought it was the areo-dynamic bubble face shield Jimbo wore...

[Ron Hill]

So, as long as they are the 70 HP motors? Like 55 HP electric shifts and such aren't what I want???

Side Bar to Jim Nerstrom.....

In 1978, when you jetted Freddy and My CCC Evinrude.....I never dreamed Freddy and I would win... As you recall, like it was yesterday, firstr run out, one lap, engine felt like it "Stuck"...I came in thinking I had not given it enough break in time....You and Freddy pulled the plugs....Then rejetted her...She ran like a song for 7 hours....

My old V-4 could see 108 at times, the new V-6 went 118 when I quit looking at the speedometer....I knew we had a shot at it, then catching on fire at the pit stop.....We made Brad Miller and Crazy Horse Camp Grounds proud that day!!!

And people wondered why I had tears in my eyes when Chad came across the line, yesterday, as the overall winner of the Blue Water Casino 300 Enduro.....Flash backs...Thanks, Jim, for all your support and help through the years...

[David Mason]

I think you want to stick with 65HP, 70HP and 75's. Evinrude or Johnson. Sierra makes nice aftermarket pistons, a TON cheaper than OMC, and in my opinion, better due to the stronger looking skirts. Last time I weighed them, they were very close to an OMC stock piston as well.

Cranks, unless you have a good connection for drive shafts, stick to the old style cranks. The newer lots and lots of splines cost lots and lots of money. Not enough of them in junk yards yet to bring cost down. Not uncommon to pay over 100 bucks for one, and all we do is cut it down...... seems a waste. 100 bucks is a1 /4 of a new prop, which will make you go fast more so than any driveshaft.

Flywheels, there is a style known as a Pancake flywheel. They are the lightest stock flywheels you can find. They are rare though. Can't remember part numbers. When you find one, get at least the stator as well, as the magnets need to be correctly aligned.

Ignition, I like both old and new style. No secrets there, they both work.

I see speeds somewhere in the 90's all the time with my Super E. I can tell you that the engines are already decent for speed. You have to prop for speed. These engines are torque monsters, so you can figure out what needs to be done from there. No magic prop, just never stop trying to find the magical one.

You don't need to spend much money on a good rig. If you are even remotley mechancially inclined, you can have a fast SEH/FEH. You just need to test props and set ups. You can spend thousands if you choose for engines, or spend hundreds, then a few props and get as good if not better results.

[shenders]

Tim

I Dave is right. Not to hard to get a good running set up.. BUT, if you see a orange color engine in a pile get it.. That’s a 75 stinger.. Port timing is a little different..
Stanley Henderson
Del Rio, Tx.

[Jeff Akers]

Ron, Like David said, 60,65,70,75 HP from 1973 through1985 are what you want to look for...They started going to 56ci " foam casted blocks " ( not legal for FE ) in late 85 early 86.

Some good info here:) ...I wish this was posted a few years ago when I was building mine;)

[Ron Hill]

Any chance of like posting that OMC code to remember the year, and serial numbers....???

Or do you have a list on serial numbers....

Going to make a run to Yuma, Phoenix, Kingman, Needles, and Apple Valley in two weeks....looking for STUFF!!!!! (Good STUFF, you know)...

[Jeff Akers]

Omc ID by model numbers not serial numbers.. This attachment should work for the newer stuff...On the older stuff I can give you some exampels......
Evinrude 1975 70hp.....model # 70572
Evinrude 1978 75hp.....model # 75849

Johnson 1975 70hp....model #70es75
Johnson 1978 75hp....model #75etlr78

Here's the newer code:

[Barry Strawn]

Here is the best guide I have seen. Even has the race stuff.

[Jeff Akers]

Here is the best guide I have seen. Even has the race stuff.


Good one :) :cool:

[Mark75H]

That list is WOW! Thanks for posting it!

[SANGER-RICH]

Im looking to find out if anyone knows a guy that drove a Super E that had a nick name of Lizzard, in the drags in 1983??
I'm helping my daughter with her school paper she is doing on drag boats and racing :o