Need the facts (From the OMC xperts)

[Charles Salsman]

Ok, this pertains to a '76 135 Evinrude, all stock, in remarkable condition for it's age. Former owner was the proverbial old man who took it fishin on Sundays. Kept records of all the service, etc. It weighs 271 lbs, according to the specs.

The boat...is going to require some explanation.
The boat that this will be used on is a 17' Ranger Bassboat (1776 Super A). Up until 1976, Ranger made some pretty cheesy bassboats, by todays standards. To commemorate the bicentennial, and because Ranger was sponsoring a major bass tournament that year, they introduced a new model, the Super-A. The designer of the hull was a man from Tennesee by the name of Darris Allison.....
The hull is identical to the Allison offerings of the late 70's, but the Allison models (of course) kept the extras to a minimum to conserve weight. I have De-Rangered the boat, by removing all the carpets, chrome doo-dads, the rod locker. New stringers and deck using Marine Plywood, S-glass and Epoxy, moved the seat and steering closer to the center. The lids for the compartments weighed 80lbs alone! I have not weighed it yet, but I suspect it weighs around 500 bare of seats, gas, batteries, motor. Oh yes, I put in all new 4lb flotation throughout, except for the bilge that runs through the centerline. I spent 4 months of free time on the structural, and would trust my life to this boat.
I still have cosmetic things to do when the weather warms up. I do plan on having a trolling motor on the bow, and will make the livewells usable if needed.

What I want to do is make this a one-man fishing boat that has some 'giddy-up'. Id like to use the 135, but others have cast doubts that it will perform to my expectations, and suggested that I 'hang a 225 merc on the back' if I want performance, and that it'd be a miracle for this old OMC v4 to do much better than 55. Granted, I didnt say what kind of boat I was using, so they may have a preconcieved notion of a 20', heavy bassboat that Ranger is typically known for...

What I plan to do is see where Im at rpm-wise with the stock prop, get familiar with the handling, and then maybe some of you guys can help me put together a game plan for the best approach.


But I do have one burning question: Has anyone ever adapted a sportmaster (Or similar perf. lower unit) to a stock v4 x-flow?

Is anyone aware of any books written about outboard motor engineering? The science/art of gear ratio selection, prop pitch, and the many other variables involved?

Its late, but my other questions will have to wait....

Remember, just the facts!
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Ranger/Day2/1776SuperA.jpg

[JohnsonM50]

As far as the hull goes your on the right track, floatation up in the gunwales if possible is good. Is the keel arrow straight? You could try a speed coat on the aft of the bottom. A hydrolic transome jack with trim / tilt and a performance prop will maximize the 135. :cool:

[Mark75H]

If you are talking about the Merc Speedmaster, OMC made racing versions of the V-4 and their own racing lower units for them. It would be less work to find one that just bolt up instead of adapting a Merc Speedmaster. As far as the Sportmaster, no one that I know of has adapted a Sportmaster or Torquemaster to a V-4. It is truely less work to run a V-6 and the results are more or less guaranteed vs not.

More directly to the pure racing lower units is that they do NOT INCREASE SPEED by themselves and then ONLY IF YOU ARE ALREADY running 80 mph or above on a very very light boat; something well under 800 pounds total weight. In connection with this, props were not made for speeds less than 80 mph for any of the racing lower units and you would have to have one custom made at $400 to $600; the 80 mph props cannot be repitched to run 60 mph.

More directly addressing your rig, the larger diameter stock prop will work much better with the size and weight of your boat. Generally the smaller diameter lower unit and prop you use the faster you can go - providing they still produce enough thrust volume for your rig. Larger heavier boats need larger props which have to run slower RPM because the blade tip speed may not exceed the speed that causes water pressure behind the blade to drop low enough to boil - true "cavitiation" (vs ventilation which is something different). The larger the diameter of the prop, the higher the blade tip speed is in MPH at the same RPM

No insult intended, but I would be surprized if your boat is quite as light as you hope. In most communities there is either a grain scale or a scrap yard scale where you could weigh your trailer alone and again with the boat on it to confirm the weight. Don't forget that you and the motor will probably weigh close to 500 pounds unless you are very small and 10 gallons of gas weighs 70 pounds. That means the boat would have to weigh 300 pounds or less to benefit from a racing type lower unit.

[Bill Gohr]

Well, there is a chance that that boat would get down to 500lbs, but that would be empty, without you or a fishing pole, so keep that in mind.
There was test reports back them for that boat, probably with a 115 merc on it as shown in the pic. Just do a comparison of that with the 135 on it. The 76 135 is a pretty stout motor, I would rate it as 3rd strongest of all the old V4's, stock, the gearcase will hold you back, it wasn't designed for speed, very blunt in the front. Normally, I wouldn't tell you to put a nosecone on it till you were over 75mph, but on that old case I would do it anyway, no need to change it, just reshape it.
The post 79' gearcases were much better and I have run them close to 80 with out a cone but that was pushing it. The 135 should get you into the high 60's or 70's, it has a taller gear ratio than the later V4's, find yourself a 14X22 Chopper and have it rehubbed and go from there.
Don't be afraid to spin it over 6K we ran them there all the time.

[tthibodaux]

6000 rpm, you can turn that dude way more than that. I have turned mine 7100(all day) BUT it's rpm curve seems to be at about 6700. Anything after that and it's not pullin anymore just spinnin. Mine runs best on the HydroStream at about 6400.:D

[Bill Gohr]

Oh without a doubt, you can spin them where ever you want, but keep in mind his motor has lower ports than yours. I was giving him a safe rpm for a 31 year old motor, when I ran my modified 140 on my Vector I ran it at 7700rpm.

[tthibodaux]

Oh without a doubt, you can spin them where ever you want, but keep in mind his motor has lower ports than yours. I was giving him a safe rpm for a 31 year old motor, when I ran my modified 140 on my Vector I ran it at 7700rpm.Your rite. Man they sure sound SWEET turnin over about 6500.:D

[Charles Salsman]

As far as the hull goes your on the right track, floatation up in the gunwales if possible is good. Is the keel arrow straight? You could try a speed coat on the aft of the bottom. A hydrolic transome jack with trim / tilt and a performance prop will maximize the 135. :cool:

I replaced all the foam in the floor, there is already foam under the gunwales all the way around, including 2 massive glass-enclosed sections of foam on each side of the boat that are about 5ft, which I left intact. I suspect it is 2lb foam, because the foam I used is much more substantial.

Ive got power trim/tilt, but have to manually raise and lower the height.

[JohnsonM50]

I replaced all the foam in the floor, there is already foam under the gunwales all the way around, including 2 massive glass-enclosed sections of foam on each side of the boat that are about 5ft, which I left intact. I suspect it is 2lb foam, because the foam I used is much more substantial.

Ive got power trim/tilt, but have to manually raise and lower the height.

I mentioned the floatation because it was part of your posting, when its all on the bottom - and if your misfortunate to flip, the boat would favor being wetside up with little chance of bailing. Its cool like you have it.
I hitched a ride on a speedboat that had a jackplate It, used with the trim tilt really gave the boat a kick in the ahhhhh.. :D both low for takeoff then raised for speed. Ive seen them in Overtons if your interested [maybe somebody knows better] That would also give you a 5 inch standoff.

[Charles Salsman]

If you are talking about the Merc Speedmaster, OMC made racing versions of the V-4 and their own racing lower units for them. It would be less work to find one that just bolt up instead of adapting a Merc Speedmaster.



No insult intended, but I would be surprized if your boat is quite as light as you hope.


No use me speculating until I weigh it. I can pick up the *** end (without the motor on of course) off of the trailer enough to shift it. I shouldve done that when I had the motor off and the boat suspended from the rafters.

Im just trying to find out what all my options are. I saw that there were aftermarket hp gearcases for those motors, not racing gearcases, but better ones. I think that the gearcase on the 135 is the same as the ones used on the 200hp, or the Stern-Drive units. Its huge.

[Charles Salsman]

There was test reports back them for that boat, probably with a 115 merc on it as shown in the pic. Just do a comparison of that with the 135 on it...


, the gearcase will hold you back, it wasn't designed for speed, very blunt in the front. Normally, I wouldn't tell you to put a nosecone on it till you were over 75mph, but on that old case I would do it anyway, no need to change it, just reshape it.... The post 79' gearcases were much better and I have run them close to 80 with out a cone but that was pushing it. The 135 should get you into the high 60's or 70's, it has a taller gear ratio than the later V4's, find yourself a 14X22 Chopper and have it rehubbed and go from there.
Don't be afraid to spin it over 6K we ran them there all the time.

--Yes, the reason I am looking at the gearcase first is because of others (and you) mentioning this fact in other threads...
--- Ive contacted Ranger, they said they have no further info, other than that picture.
--Ok, this is good info. I havent looked into the particulars of nosecones, is there a certain type I should look for?
I was also considering the Boyeson Reeds.
What octane gas should I be using, and what spark plugs do you recommend?
(Im not using those 73 heads, I just bought them for 'provisional' purposes in case I want to get deeper into modifying this)

The prop I was considering was a 13 1/4 x 24 "Raker", but Im going to follow your advice on the Chopper 14x22... I didnt realize I could divert from the 13 1/4 dimension.

[Skoontz]

I found that running a 12" step bottom on a Vee, and an additional cantilever, which stuck the motor back 8 more inches, and then jacking the motor 4" higher than stock propshaft depth worked best. That was on a '79 140, and I ran a 28" chopper at 5800 RPM. Higher R's on that motor actually ran slower for me. Speed danced between 72 and 73, Island Lake Illinois Police radar under the 176 bridge.

Thought i would toss that at the fan...

[Tomtall]

Charles - Very cool project you got there. I remember when Ranger came out with that boat. Listen to Bill Gore. The man worked for OMC and knows his stuff about their engines. He probably doesn't remember but he helped me out way back when to get a GT150 to run like stink on a Skeeter bass boat. If your lookin for a great nose cone with a good fit go to http://www.hydromotive.com/main.html
They also have a prop that would work VERY well for your set-up. It's a desighn of their own based on a small chopper and can be hubed for your application. I've run their props on many a bass boat set-up and they blow the rest away;)

[Charles Salsman]

I appreciate all of the response you guys have given me so far, seriously. I no longer feel as if I am going through this alone & blindfolded! I am glad I decided to register here. I have lurked here for a while now, reading up on various topics, mainly about the old OMC crossflows, so I know to trust the words of Mr. Gohr!

Ive got the factory service manual and it lists this gearcase as having a 13:25 gear ratio. They show 2 different models - 135683 & 135643. It looks like the 643 (my model) came with pt&t, 12A stator, and stainless 13x19 prop. They list Champ. UL77V plugs, or L77J4 for sustained slow speed operation. I just want to make sure that's still applicable, as the UL77V has been discontinued, and crosses to a QL16V plug.

I got some feedback from another forum about my boat, it is the same as the Allison XST. The XST was listed at 700lbs, came without carpet, had 1 livewell instead of 2, and no doubt did not have 80lbs worth of hatch-lids :)
Apparently in the mid 70's, Allison did not have a presence West of the Missippi River (According to an article I saw on Allisonowners.com scanned from an old magazine).
Speculation- I doubt Ranger wouldve become the monster that it is today if they had not hooked up with Allison that year. (At least FLW had the decency to pay them for their technology instead of trying to copy it) I guess the difference was that Ranger's target audience was less about performance, more about fishing, and Allison is ALL about the performance...

[Charles Salsman]

If your lookin for a great nose cone with a good fit go to http://www.hydromotive.com/main.html
They also have a prop that would work VERY well for your set-up. It's a desighn of their own based on a small chopper and can be hubed for your application. I've run their props on many a bass boat set-up and they blow the rest away;)


Which prop is it?

The T-3x sport is 14 1/4x(22-34)
The T-4x is 13 3/4x(22-34)
The Quad IV-x o/b is 15x(22-32)

Of those 3, the T-4x seems the most appealing because of the claims of improved handling.
Also, I read some info from a guy with an 76 Allison XST that used a 150 Merc and '26 pitch stock chopper'

Ive been trying to find out what exactly a 'chopper' is, and what the different types are, such as 'round ear', 'small ear', etc, etc. Also, is a cleaver a type of chopper, or something entirely separate?

Ive ordered a couple of books from Amazon that will hopefully enlighten me a little bit.

[Skoontz]

Chopper props were originally sold by Mercury and you had to respline them to work on OMC. The blades are long and thin, rounded on the end, kind of look like a Basset Hound dogs ears welded to a stainless hub. They are made to lift the nose.

[JohnsonM50]

A cleaver is basicly the kind with the straight trailing edge and pointed [not always] tips. Choppers are similar to dog eared in appearance.

[Tomtall]

Thomas Burgland gives some sound advise on the differnt prop styles and set up for a UIM race class (but also applies to your situation) at this link. http://www.ocke.se/motorboats/boating_tips/index.html

As far as a 3 blade or a 4 blade design I would always talk with the person selling the prop for their input. On the Bass Boat hulls that carry a heavy load the 4 blade seems to give a better hole shot but I have seen a reduction of 1-2 mph on the top end. Stability and steering torque are more favorable with the four blades. I am no prop guru by any means but am giving you what I have experienced after a lot of testing on the water with both styles.The Cleaver style props on a bass boat hull usally don't perform as well as a Chopper style.

[Charles Salsman]

Thanks, Im not sure how much bow lift I'll need with this hull... In addition to a pad, Ive got tunnels, which are supposed to provide some degree of lifting, if Im not mistaken. Here is a link with drawings of what the hull looks like. http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPATD244518

Do y'all think since it's got 'sponsons' it'd quailfy as a Tri-Hull racer? :D

I do have the number to a shop in Tenn. that I plan on calling, was told he has much experience with these bassboats.

We had some decent weather today, but I am not done yet with rigging, and Im waiting on the UPS man to get here with a new 'Vernatherm' thermostat, old one is sticking. It might be another few days before it warms up enough to get out there and do some testing.

[Tomtall]

The thing that cracks me up when I watch the guys in our area with their $50,000 bass boats they bought at the local Bass Pro Shop store is they have a rooster tall 100' long behind their boat trimmed to the moon trying to get the bow to carry and going 65 mph. Keep the motor trim neutral with a laid down rooster tail. If you need a prop with more rake to get the bow up to do this, so be it.

[Skoontz]

Tom has a a cardinal rule point here.... Whenever I brought a prop to Don Hendrich, the first thing he would ask me is how high my rooster tail was. Typically, if you can see the spray over the hood of an OMC motor under full power, you need to lower your motor, or figure out whats going on before you can get your set up to work. So, if the rooster tail is over 5' off water, you need to set the motor lower because the prop blades are throwing too much in the air rather than thrust behind the boat....

[Charles Salsman]

The thing that cracks me up when I watch the guys in our area with their $50,000 bass boats they bought at the local Bass Pro Shop store is they have a rooster tall 100' long behind their boat trimmed to the moon trying to get the bow to carry and going 65 mph. Keep the motor trim neutral with a laid down rooster tail. If you need a prop with more rake to get the bow up to do this, so be it.

Yes, the bass boating 'subculture' is kind of funny to observe. Kind of like the golfers that buy all the latest gasget clubs to improve their game... Thats all I'll say about that. Except that where I grew up (S. Louisiana) if you wanted to catch fish, you use a fishing boat. Aluminum utility boats with homemade livewells is all we ever fished out of.

[Bill Gohr]

the prop you would be looking for is a 14X22 which is commonly known as a small ear. The only other prop I would use was the sst rx which was a 23 but needs to be severely reworked, the 24 raker will most likely be too stiff, remember you have a taller gear ratio than the later engines which will throw you off.

[tthibodaux]

Try to find a 14x22 YAMAHA DRAG. (or a Ron Hill copy) great prop for lift, made a hell of a differance on my HydroStream but I was stupid and didn't buy it used when I had the chance so now I'm waiting to find a used one. My boat with my Raker even though it has quite a bit of rake still uses alot of trim because of weight distrabution. The YD worked perfect. But, new they are $600 bucks and thats WAY to much to spend to try one and it not work. I was lucky some of my buddies race trihulls and let me try for free. Don't we all wish props could be rented or something?:D

[Charles Salsman]

So if I come across a Yamaha drag prop that is 14x22, is that the same as a "Small Ear" 14x22?

This is a pic I found of a Yamaha Drag prop (Not for sale) with the same dimensions:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/YamahaDrag.jpg

This is a "big ear" ? x22 prop I saw on Ebay:
http://i8.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/89/38/cb5e_1.JPG

Bill, do you happen to have any literature that would have a Part# for the prop you are describing? That may be the most foolproof route for me to take.

[tthibodaux]

That big ear looks like to much for a V4. May be for V6 Merc.(merc hub anyway) I haven't had much luck on a V4 with the couple of big ear props I tried RPM was low and holeshot real bad. Also keep in mind 14 diameter is all a V4 can run. Just tryin to help.;)

[Charles Salsman]

Yeah, I was just trying to get an idea if thats the type of hub and general shape.

[tthibodaux]

Thats a chopper like you need but be real careful not to get one for a V6 merc because they are a dime a dozen. That motor won't turn anything more than a 14X24 maybe 26 but not likely. Also, you don't need more than a 4in setback plate. Anything more than that will change the angle of attack to much and cause a bad porpios.

[Charles Salsman]

Dont worry, I will scour the earth for the proper propeller.

Bill Gohr, you should consider writing a book. I'd buy it.

[Skoontz]

My 140 had no problems turning a 28. 5800 out of the box, with a vented hood, 6200. Seemed just perfect to me.

[Charles Salsman]

What kind of hull? And I guess your 140 is a real 140. The 135 became the 115 in 1977..... Rated at prop.

I did buy some reeds today, and looking for some filler blocks. I have a set of 73 cylinder heads. Is there any other parts I should be loooking for deals on? Electrical? The bigger carbs?

And... since I have my cowling all sanded bare. (Former owner attempted a mediocre paint job I guess) Can we talk about the cutting of the louvers into the cowl?

[tthibodaux]

My 140 had no problems turning a 28. 5800 out of the box, with a vented hood, 6200. Seemed just perfect to me.Take into consideration his motor is a 1976/135hp not nice and new or fresh rebuilt. If you jack the motor up HIGH enough it will turn 9700 but after about 6800 he's not makin hp he's just overreving the motor.

[Skoontz]

The hull was a 17' Switzer Super Sport, weight of 900 lbs. The motor was a '79 140, 99 cubic inch, i.e. the good 140. the 122's had V-6 gearcases, were heavy, etc etc.

All we jacked the motor was 4", at 5, the rooster tail was too big. Hole shots were OK, the boat would lug briefly, jump up on plane, drop down, the engine would rev higher so you take your foot off for a blip, then hammer down. I wasn't ever after hole shots, just the end speed.

[tthibodaux]

The hull was a 17' Switzer Super Sport, weight of 900 lbs. The motor was a '79 140, 99 cubic inch, i.e. the good 140. the 122's had V-6 gearcases, were heavy, etc etc.

All we jacked the motor was 4", at 5, the rooster tail was too big. Hole shots were OK, the boat would lug briefly, jump up on plane, drop down, the engine would rev higher so you take your foot off for a blip, then hammer down. I wasn't ever after hole shots, just the end speed.Your right. It will most likely run some big #'s but I still think all around boat performance would be better if he stays more conservative. As I found with my boat your only gonna get so much of one thing before you lose another. Charles, so many people are not only right but also wrong so the best thing to do is TEST all affordable options and see what works best. Get a GOOD boat setup FIRST and then you can adjust for speed.

[Bill Gohr]

I did write a book, John Tiger had the idea to write an article about modding V4's, so he and I sat down and gave the short version of all of this, it was in Bass and Walleye or Hot Boat, called I think "the Venerable V4".

What filler blocks are you looking for? Your motor should already have the good ones in it, the 135 style make mor HP than the 140's and the 140's made more low end. The 115's were the same block and porting, the 135's got the exhaust, carbs and heads. In your years the 115 had a 2:1 and the 135 had the 1:92's. All the V4's 78' and up were 2:1.

Back in the day, whenever that day was, my last Vector had a 78' 140 on it, Ricky came up with this bare block he had buried in his back yard for 2 years, he said thats what the old drag racers did to season the block. So I take this wad of dirt and rust and spend a week trying to make a block out of it. After cleaning, boring and modifying it, squared ports, finger ports, .020 over, KR pistons, yadda, yadda, that motor would spin a 24 at 7750, and the boat, was 775lbs, full dresser, ran 83MPH. After snapping the crank, I switched to another block with the big center main, that motor never spun like that "seasoned" block. Go figure.

[Charles Salsman]

What filler blocks are you looking for? Your motor should already have the good ones in it, the 135 style make mor HP than the 140's and the 140's made more low end. The 115's were the same block and porting, the 135's got the exhaust, carbs and heads. In your years the 115 had a 2:1 and the 135 had the 1:92's. All the V4's 78' and up were 2:1.


Ok, I have in my notes to look for filler blocks, either 322684,322722,392000. I double checked my parts manual, no sign of filler blocks. Went to BRP website and those fillers above are for 115, 140 motors. Searched my model# 135643 for "filler block", came up with nothing.

I'd have to backtrack to figure out where I came across the info & those part #s. Probably this site, but most of my notes are little scraps of info from the internet.

Or are you just seeing if Im paying attention? ;)

My list of simple mods from my notes:
73 Heads 317848,849 (which I have)
78/79 V4 Carbs 1 3/8" (Not sure of the benefit)
Cut tuner ~7.25" below powerhead adaptor
Intake Fillers
Fiber Reeds (Have ordered)
Scoop Cowl or Poor Man's Velocity Stack(?)
NoseCone (Still looking)
"Dry Stacking" (Not sure of any benefit)


Then I have another list of things like the porting work, which if I were going to get into it that deep, Id send it off to someone like Monty Racing (For example)

I asked on my last post about the mods to the cowl, have any of you done any of that?

[Charles Salsman]

. Charles, so many people are not only right but also wrong so the best thing to do is TEST all affordable options and see what works best. Get a GOOD boat setup FIRST and then you can adjust for speed.

If you can't tell by now, I like to do my homework before diving headlong into something. But I can amass the parts I need with no risk, since they are easily liquidatable if I find I dont need them. (New Old Stock stuff anyway)

Bill Gohr: Seems I recall reading somewhere that you have/had a 15' Allison bassboat from the same era as my Ranger.... I didnt realize it, but it looks like in 1976 Ranger made a 15' model also. This is a pic of what the Ranger version looks like. (Got the pic from a for sale ad online)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/86042950_1.jpg

[Skoontz]

Dang Bill...Where were you when a couple 155XS Merc jerks were hunting me down? I pulled by them, but, with what you did, I would have eaten them....And Mercs taste better with every precious bite after you get the first inital bad taste out your mouth........

[Charles Salsman]

E-z there tiger, or next thing you know this thread is gonna turn into one just like at any of those other boating forums. Lets stick to the *facts* and let the chips fall where they may!

Some of the other boating sites are so full of smack-talking egotists its hard to wade through it all. My hats off to the guy running this board.

[Bill Gohr]

No, never a bassboat, many 15 Allys though, have one right now that is getting, guesswhat, a modded V4 crossflow.

When you were talking about filler blocks I thought you meant exhaust. Yes, the intake fillers are good to have, we stopped using them only because they were not alcohol resistant parts and there were reports of them falling apart from certain fuels. The 392000 part number you listed are exhaust parts.

As far as your list goes, scratch the dry stacking, takes away bottom end, it would increase high RPM's but I don't think you'll be running it that high. As far as porting, I think I do that too.

Skoontz, the bad thing is back then I was building those 1500XS's too, way back then, I worked for Ralph Kozan and that was ALL we did was in line 6's.

[Skoontz]

Ralph was a great guy even though he worked for the other team. He ended up buying the 155XS I took off my Switzer. I remeber lots of stories about Ralph through my dad and Charlie Rullman. Seems he used to use hundreds of carb floats until he found 6 that displaced equal amounts of fuel. He did Charlies J motor on his Hustler tunnel and Charlie won or placed very high in the nationals that year...Has Ralph passed on or is he still with us? He could tell some interesting tales on this forum if he is still here.

[Bill Gohr]

Ralph's problem is he can't type, I talk to him once a week, he's all good been trying to get him to close that joint up and go travel, that's all he talks about

[Charles Salsman]

No, never a bassboat, many 15 Allys though, have one right now that is getting, guesswhat, a modded V4 crossflow.

When you were talking about filler blocks I thought you meant exhaust. Yes, the intake fillers are good to have, we stopped using them only because they were not alcohol resistant parts and there were reports of them falling apart from certain fuels. The 392000 part number you listed are exhaust parts.


BIll Gohr: If I had one to go off of, I could make a copy out of epoxy. Lets see some pictures of that Ally & project V4! And what year was that BWB article that you were talking about?

And Thibodeaux, I dont kneaux what you're talking about, breaux... You & me are running different motors, aint we?
I'd like to see some pictures of that roll-cage you use in the tri-hull racing.

[tthibodaux]

I don't have a tri hull. If you read back it says some friends of mine let me try some props. Thought I could help you with boat setup since I currently run a V4 powered sport boat but sounds like you've got it all figured out. By the way, no E in Thibodaux.

[Bill Gohr]

I can't believe you can't find any of those intake fillers laying around, take some more motors apart you'll find them.

That article had to be 97' 98', I had one here I don't know where I would find it.

The Ally is derigged right now, cleaned it up and ran the buffer over it, it's mint, all original, the center section is off being cut down and the gearcase is down at JC's getting a nosecone, as soon as I get that stuff back I'll get it together and get the center section and gearcase on it and start rigging it. That will be fun, can't remember the last time I had a boat you could rig in one day. The powerhead is in pieces right now, making a flywheel for it.

[Charles Salsman]

[QUOTE=Bill Gohr;29648]I can't believe you can't find any of those intake fillers laying around, take some more motors apart you'll find them.

Yeah, I picked some up today. But I dont keep motor parts laying around in the backyard, man :)

...the center section is off being cut down and the gearcase is down at JC's getting a nosecone,

Im thinking the best nosecone for this fat '76 135 gearcase is the one that Hydromotive makes for the V6 OMC. This gearcase is the same identical one used in the Stern-Drive V6's for several years (Up til the 80s I think), part for part.

For the record, just because Im trying to squeeze as much info as I can out of Bill about various modifications doesnt mean that Im going to jump in and do all of them. I plan on doing Reeds, Intake Fillers, and Nosecone/LWP to start with. I also value Bill's propeller reccomendation, as the '76 gearcase is a different animal than the other V4's. Also, carrying on a conversation via PM would not benefit anyone else that might want to come along down the road looking for the same information that I am seeking, and I know there's probably others with old V4's following this thread and not saying anything.

P.S. I found a virtual treasure-trove of a parts source about 45 mins. away from where I live. Like I was stepping back in time, no kidding. Who needs '73 heads? :D More details later, gotta eat!

[tthibodaux]

I need 73 heads.:D Part #'s 317849/317848.;) What ya want for em?

[tthibodaux]

The intake fillers are only going to make a little more crankcase pressure. The reeds will give you a few more revs but most of all save the motor if one brakes because it'll just spit it out the exhaust. You need to run a leak down on it first to get an idea if it's even worth spending any money or just find one a couple years newer that has the new trim (inside the clamp brackets) and the better gearcase.

[Charles Salsman]

Ok, what's a fair price for the '76 135 heads, new? The guy I met today has so much crap, he doesnt even know what he has. I got those filler blocks, every kind of gasket I probably will ever need, went to the attic and picked out a new looking 1975-ish cowl. (He probably has at least one of every size for every year OMC made motors)
I asked him about those Pollari heads, he asked me how many I wanted. I asked him how many he had, he said "How many you want" I told him Id get back to him.

He said he was pretty sure he had a few new, and knew he had a lot of scrapped 73 motors on shelves that could be scavenged. I had already run the guy breathless getting my stuff that I told him Id come back again when I had more time. Real nice guy.

You go to pretty much any new boat place around here, and they almost laugh at you when you ask for a part, gasket, etc for something thats over about 5 yrs old. They cater to the rich. This place was out in the sticks, I saw about 3000sq ft floor to ceiling of old OMC parts in dusty old boxes. Plus a huge amt of powerheads, lower units, intakes, everything. Like an OMC museum. I told him he could sell a ton of this stuff on Ebay, he said it's too much hassle....

I will go there again this week, & get him to dig for some new 73 heads, and get an idea how many he's got new vs used. The only thing that wouldve made it a perfect day, wouldve been a room full of 2nd-Effort stuff, but he acted kind of funny when I asked him about having any of that.

[Skoontz]

Does he have any 15 parts? Particularly gear case, powerheads, etc??????

[Bill Gohr]

That gearcase is not the same as the sterndrive, we never used that one on them, your gearcase is not he same as the 800/V-6 size, it's the same diameter as all the V4's, someone will have to just blend a later nosecone to it, no problem just a little more work.

[Charles Salsman]

Skoontz: You mean KR 15 stuff? I tried to bring up the subject about 2nd Effort stuff, and also even mentioned the KR15 specifically, but he changed the subject on me. Its hard to explain, but around here, people are leery of people that they dont know, especially if they're from somewhere else.

Bill: Im not arguing with you, but take a look at this picture & compare with diagram of '76 135, you can see how I made the mistake of assuming that. I had to get a seal kit for the l/u, impeller & they are the same, as well as a lot of other parts. I didnt compare every part, and given that they *look* identical at a glance, I assumed it was.



http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/omc-V6-Hydraulic-shift-1976-1978.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/76135Gearcase.jpg

I still think given the available choices, the nosecone I mentioned may be the closest matchup... Or not, I dont know now!

[tthibodaux]

I need a 140 tuner. Also those heads are worth $100 buck to me.:D Each of coarse.;)

Charles, man I would say stop goofin off and spendin money and find yourself a newer style (80 or newer) mid and gearcase. Dime a dozen.

[Bill Gohr]

What tuner do you need????

Charles, if those are the pictures you are going buy.......the only part on there that is the same is the pinion nut. the top pic is of a 76' or early production 77' 200 gearcase, not an 800 drive. If you're looking at part numbers, look at the bearing carrier oring, the top one will be a 305123, V6 size, the lower pic will be a 313446, V4 size.

And after thinking about what you said, yes, TODAY the seal kit is the same, we superceded them together, because like in 97' we decided to put all the different size seals and orings in one kit so it's a one size fits all seal kit, that kit will seal a V4, V6, and a V8, all different size everything. THere were like 14 part number seal kits and we condensed it down to one parts number. If I was going to reseal your particular gearcase, I would get the parts seperately. 2)321463 2)321453 1)313446 4)317178 2)311598 1)313754, can't remember the number for the shifter cover gasket.......

[tthibodaux]

Bill you know better than I do about the tuner. The new motor is an 89/115 and of coarse I have the big carbs and the port work is taken care of only on the exhaust side. Not messin with intake side to keep from killin the holeshot. I had forgotten you had the heads I need, are you around so I can give you a call?

[Charles Salsman]

Thibodaux: So you're saying I can get a 1980 or newer style midsection & gearcase, and bolt my 1976 135 powerhead to it? And sorry I mispelled your name that one time, Thibodeaux is a pretty common name in La.


Bill: The reason it came up about the other gearcases was that I was looking for a nosecone that would fit my 135. Hydromotive makes one called an HC-JE6 that fits the V6 gearcases, and a HC-JE4 to fit the 140 & 115 V4's. Since my 135 has an appearance that more closely resembles the V6 style I posted above, I was thinking that the HC-JE6 might fit better. (I had *assumed* they might be the same housing, but never looked closely enough until last night)

I have already sealed up my gearcase, holds pressure all day, and changed impeller.

$135 for a nosecone is still cheaper and less hassle than finding & adapting a new mid & lower, I would think.

[Skoontz]

Charles, I mean parts for an OMC APBA Class A engine. I need driveshaft(s) and a race gearcase. Powerheads are good too. I'll also take any KR-15 parts he has to sell.

[Charles Salsman]

You're gonna have to give me parts numbers. Im going back through there Thursday. He was out of breath from the trip to the attic, and his phone was ringing, and had some people drive up, so I paid him for my stuff and went on my way.

He acted awkward when I asked him about the racing stuff, but he didn't say no either. I told him what I was doing with my boat, he showed me an SRX 388884 prop that he said would work well, as well as a room full of other props.

You can PM with part numbers and I will check whatever you want me to check. I may have to leave the list with him.

And I checked about bolting a 135 powerhead to a newer midsection & lower unit, seems that nothing would line up, so I guess that's out.

Thibodaux- Tell me about a leakdown test. Give me a step by step.

[tthibodaux]

I would rather use the leak down on an older motor than a commpression test. Keep in mind each cyl. should not have more the 10% loss. 120 lbs. comp. would be considered good in most cases but if a leak down on the same cyl. indicates 20 or 25% excessive wear is a good bet. Scored cyl. stuck rings, ect. Remember when performing the leak down to begin at start of compression (just past ports) and NOT tdc, and be sure the flywheel is locked.

[Charles Salsman]

Ok the piston position was mainly what I wanted to know about.

[Charles Salsman]

Ok Bill, I have a 14x22 Chopper now, but have to get it rehubbed. It looks like the little 'spikes' on the backside need to get ground down. Any specific instructions I should give to the prop man? (If you know any prop. guys near Atlanta, Im about 1 hr from E. Atlanta)

And what do you think of those srx props that I was talking about (388884 srx) 13 3/4x23. I've seen people refer to these as an "omc chopper", I think it's called a "silver streak". Would I be able to spin this?

[tthibodaux]

Sounds like you got yourself a Merc chopper. Better recheck the diameter.

[Skoontz]

A Merc Chopper from the 1977-84 era will fit the new design V-4 (streamlined) gearcase, I had one and yes it's close but will work. I'm not sure about the blunt nosed 135 case diameter. I second checking the diameter before you shave off the nubs.

[tthibodaux]

A Merc Chopper from the 1977-84 era will fit the new design V-4 (streamlined) gearcase, I had one and yes it's close but will work. I'm not sure about the blunt nosed 135 case diameter. I second checking the diameter before you shave off the nubs.I didn't buy it because I didn't think I could turn it. The merc chopper has way more blade area than the standard V4 style chopper.(14x22 yamaha drag). I guess if you got the money to spend go for it.:D

[Skoontz]

Ah, the method to the madness! yer right, that thing looked like a Basset Hound ear welded to a hub!

[tthibodaux]

Ah, the method to the madness! yer right, that thing looked like a Basset Hound ear welded to a hub!Skoontz, are you ok?:confused: That almost sounded like you agreed with me for a change.;) :D

[Charles Salsman]

It fits on there, but the hub is too big. Bill told me to get a 14x22 chopper and have it rehubbed to fit my propshaft. My propshaft has 13 splines. This chopper has 15 splines and has a slightly larger diameter hub.

[tthibodaux]

It fits on there, but the hub is too big. Bill told me to get a 14x22 chopper and have it rehubbed to fit my propshaft. My propshaft has 13 splines. This chopper has 15 splines and has a slightly larger diameter hub.Merc made some choppers that ran real well on the old inline 6 that would probably work ok but the couple I've seen didn't have the "spikes" on em like the V6 chopper.(witch is more comon and easy to find) Give it a try, hubs are only $60 bucks.

[Skoontz]

TTibodaux:

I agree with whatever works best in every situation! And I'm by no means PC...LOL

Most all of the early Merc Choppers had 3 large nubs that typically would sit just under the edge of the exhaust opening on the gearcase. They claimed they were an anti weed device but who the hell would run a $300-400.00 prop in so shallow water there would be weeds? That's stainless abuse!

The first thing Don Hendrich would do when he tweeked the props for us was grind those nubs off and give special washers he machined for the prop to fit in the right spot.

[Charles Salsman]

Yeah, I need to know what hardware I will need. That parts guy I was talking about had 2 used SRX's, 13 3/4x23 both with the paint still intact, but one had some very tiny nicks and scratches but no dents or dings. I was thinking about getting one to try, and putting it on Ebay if it didnt work. What's a fair price to offer?

[tthibodaux]

I know this has already been said but we have gotten away from the facts here. You want to get the boat running perfect and get all out of it you can. In saying that, first you need to get the boat running. Before you can get maximum performance you need to get a base set up. First be conservative, Set the center of the propshaft 2in below the pad (running surface) and find you about a 22 raker and get the motor running smooth with stock parts. Once you do that you have an idea what you have to work with. Once you have an idea what it will do(or what it needs to do) then you can make better performance adjustments and save MONEY at the same time. Man I'm just tryin to help out but how do you know what will or will not work if you don't even know what you have from the start? Why buy up all the props and parts if you don't even need them? Ron Hill had a couple of V4 rakers on his ebay store last week you could have bought for $100 bucks. Again, do what you want but keep in mind you could spend a ton of money rite now and you have nothing to compare the results to.:eek:

[Charles Salsman]

Yeah, man, I havent deviated from my plan. I have a regular prop. I started up on some cosmetic stuff on the boat that needs to get done before I can start rigging it, otherwise I will be duplicating tasks. I met this guy named Fred on another boating forum that lives in the next town over who is a semi-retired OMC master tech. He's helped fine tune everything (sync & link, timing, etc, helped me put in fiber reeds) as long as I bring some Budweiser longnecks when I come by. He even said the thing is mint. Another day or 2 of good weather like weve been having and Im ready to go. My hands are sore from sanding.

Im trying to get Fred to check these forums out, he used to race Hydrostreams up north, but stopped after an accident of some sort. I figured if he wanted to elaborate more on the details, he would've. Anyway, he's now a hardcore bass fisherman and goes by the book...No "hop ups".
The other day though, when he was (barking orders at me) helping me put in the reeds, I showed him the nosecone and chopper prop, and could see his eyes light up a little bit....He smiled and said "Gotta love a crossflow...Ask that Bill Gohr what we need to do with this exhaust" I could tell he was thinking about the 'good old days'. I had to remind him that this was still going to be a fishing boat, that we're not gonna be doing any drag racing...:D

And thibodaux, I think if I got that SRX for cheap, I could easily sell it if it didnt work out. Same for the chopper.

Hell, I dont have but $2600 in this whole project so far. Lot of time and elbow grease though..

[Bill Gohr]

Chopper, cut the weed cutters off, a little leading edge roll, re hub it, call it done, those Silver Streaks were OK after ALOT of work, they didn't work at all out of the box, later we changed that prop, when they turned black, rather than silver they would work out of the box, but only needed a little help. If someone is selling you a silver prop, it needs to be cheap. I believe I still have some of the original thrust hubs for those props, it looks like a blowout ring added to a stock V4 hub. Try the Chopper. As far as the exhaust goes, you can pull the tuner out and cut it off 7" from the bottom of the adaptor plate, it will lose a little off the bottom but will run much better on top. An over the hub prop will slip it past the low end.

[tthibodaux]

Get your little tourch out cause those old 73 model bolts ain't commin out easy.:D

[Charles Salsman]

Hi y'all. I got sidetracked with a few things, but Im going to start rigging the boat this weekend. The last thing Im going to need to think about is steering. Im considering a dual cable nfb rack. I dont want to spend the money on a hydraulic steering setup.

What I need help with, is finding out what the hell I need to hook up a 2 cable steering system to my motor. I guess I need another tube, and steering arm.

And Bill: What additional hardware will I need to run my Chopper, if any? Its still with the prop people.



Here is my midesction:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/convert.gif

Part numbers would be helpful.

I also need to find out what I need to do to the carbs when running fiber reeds, as far as orifices go.

Thanks.

[Tomtall]

Charles - Here is a link to the place that has what you need.:cool:

http://www.trmarine.com/cat.html

There is also one listed for sale on e-bay at

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-DUEL-STEERING-KIT-JOHNSON-EVINDRUDE-70-235-HP_W0QQitemZ300102637560QQihZ020QQcategoryZ31283QQ cmdZViewItem

[Charles Salsman]

Thanks. On their site, everything for OMC says 1977 or newer? I will call them Monday.

[Bill Gohr]

Dual cable steering hey, first you need to find a 1976 or 77 dealer accessory guide, get the part number for the kit, and give it to me, I'm sure one of 2 people around here have it. Looking for a needle in a haystack, I have 2 old dealers here that should have it, believe it or not. If not, I think, I've never tried it, don't have motor here to test it on, but I think we could slightly modify a 78' and up kit and it would fit. That I have

[Charles Salsman]

On the BRP website, listed in Steering Accessories for 1976, the only 'dual cable' kit was for the 200 v6:


20 DEGREE BEZEL KIT-FRICTION ADJUSTING 35 THRU 200 HP
20 DEGREE BEZEL KIT-ROTAMATIC II 35 THRU 200 HP
90 DEGREE BEZEL KIT-FRICTION ADJUSTING 35 THRU 200 HP
90 DEGREE BEZEL KIT-ROTAMATIC II 35 THRU 200 HP
OVER-UNDER ADAPTER KIT
PULLEY & ANCHOR KIT
REMOTE CONTROL AND STEERING CONNECTOR KITS 40 H.P.
REMOTE STEER KITS 40 H.P. PUSH PULL ROTOMATIC 1
REMOTE STEER KITS 40 H.P. PUSH PULL ROTOMATIC 1 TWIN MOTOR
ROTAMATIC I DRIVE & CABLE
ROTAMATIC II STEERING HEAD 35 HP THRU 200 HP
ROTARY HELM
STEERING BOLT AND CLEVIS ASSY. KIT 35 - 200 EXCEPT 40 H.P.
STEERING CONN. KITS 25 & 40 H.P. CABLE PULLEY ONLY
STEERING CONN. KITS-CABLE PULLEY 35 H.P.
STEERING CONN. TIE BARS-MECHANICAL 35-200 H.P. SNGL ENGINE
STEERING CONN. TIE BARS-MECHANICAL DUAL CABLE 200 H.P.
STEERING CONN. TIE BARS-MECHANICAL. 55-135 H.P. DUAL ENGINE
STEERING CONNECTOR KIT-ROTAMATIC II 35 & 55 H.P.
STEERING CONNECTOR KIT-ROTAMATIC II 70 - 200 H.P.
STEERING CONNECTOR KITS 75 H.P. SHORT SHAFT
STEERING CONNECTOR KITS-ROPE 6 - 15 HP P/N 377440
STEERING CONNECTOR KITS-ROPE 6 - 15 HP P/N 384540
STEERING KIT-MECHANICAL
STEERING KIT-ROPE
STEERING WHEEL-ROTAMATIC II
TRANSOM BRACKET KIT ROTOMATIC I & II 35 - 200 H.P.

[Bill Gohr]

Nope needs to be for the 76 v4 so go look in the 75

[Charles Salsman]

John Tiger responded over at S&F to my question,

You will have to fabricate a dual steering connector. The clamp brackets and swivel bracket assembly changed from 76 to 77, and OMC did not make dual steering adapters for pre-77 engines...neither did T & R or anyone else. I've done this in the past, it requires using some of the parts from the 77-later T & R or OMC kits, and machining some thrust washers to make them fit.

JT


So.... Mr. Gohr....looks like we need to talk. Can you PM me your phone # so I can call you about this?

[Bill Gohr]

Mr. Tiger is incorrect, we did make it, now I'll have to go find an old acc. catalog, as well T&R made one that had 2 aluminum brackets thatclamped together with a bolt to hold it to the stock tube, the 78 piece can be made to work by either cutting those 2 webs off in the front or, narrowing the tube bracket in the 78 kit, which I have, I just don't have an old center section here to check it on.

[Charles Salsman]

I guess there are a lot of ways to accomplish this. Ive seen posts where people have described adapting mercury hydraulic steering units, and one person said to take the swivel parts off of a newer unit and swap them out, get a kit for that, and abandon the old tube.

It'd be easy if I had access to a variety of parts & pieces to make something work, but I dont.

The bracket you are describing sounds like the one on Ebay that Tomtall posted a link to.

And Bill, you said you were putting a boat together with an old V4..... Hows that coming along?

[Charles Salsman]

1) Boyesen Reeds, rejet? I have a foot throttle.

2) I think I need to remove some metal from my trim tab. I will post a picture tomorrow.....

Thank You Guys for all the help, seriously.

[Bill Gohr]

no need to rejet as the instructions say unless it sneezes at idle, and yes you may have to modify the trim tab.

My project is going along slowly for the moment, stalled waiting for parts being modified, the center section isn't back yet, the block is being machined, the decals have been duplicated and will be printed maybe today, the gearcase isn't back from getting a nosejob.............I have everything else here and waiting, steering is in the boat, rigging, oopps, forgot to order a seat, I need to do that right now,

[Charles Salsman]

I got a Bobs nosecone/lwp kit a couple months ago, has been in the package since.

My plan was to get the fit just right, and take it down to a guy here that does great aluminum welding to tack it on. Then do my fairing with epoxy.

Problem is, the Bobs is too tall. Id have to whack the top of it off, and do some serious fabricating.

Im going to call Hydromotive about their unit and try and sell this Bob's kit.

[Charles Salsman]

Hydromotive quit making everything except the universal kit because of low demand. This is depressing. :(

The lady on the phone was extremely nice.

[Instigator]

Can try and scan if you guys want it.

Haven't done real well getting print to scan clearly in past though.

Gary

[Mark75H]

Use a very high resolution on the actual scan ... 300 dpi or higher. If the software has "descreening" make sure it is turned off for scanning text. Descreening is good for scanning dot matrix type images at resolutions that normally cause "interference" patterns in the scan, but it makes text and line drawings fuzzy or jumbly.

If you successfully scan at a high dpi and have trouble getting it back small, send the large image to me and I can probably fix it.

[Charles Salsman]

Ok, Im still figuring out what to do with this lower unit.
(Which was the initial concern when I made the decision to "commit" any time/effort/money on this motor.

So far all Ive done is the Reeds, filler blocks, carb kit, lower unit seal kit, impeller, vernatherm (tstat). Ive got the '73 135 heads & head gaskets but Im not messing with that for now. I spent $225 for a Chopper prop, and had it rehubbed and cleaned up, which I have to say, the man did a remarkable job.

My steering (rotary dual cable) should be here tomorrow, and I bought that L&S steering kit that Tomtall pointed me to on Ebay for $18. It has a tube, an arm, and a bracket. I should be able to cobble something up with all that.

In an ideal world, I'd send it off to someone to put on a nosecone & lwp, but I feel like I can do it myself. (I know someone locally who is very talented with TIG, MIG welding) Ive got the Bob's kit. I want to find out the most efficient way to make this work, with the minimal amount of surgery to the L/U and to the "Bobs".

I forgot to take a picture with the "Bobs" next to my gearcase. I will go out and do that now. Then Ive got questions...

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/100_3075.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/100_3074.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/100_3073.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/100_3072.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/100_3066.jpg

[Charles Salsman]

While Im thinking about it....... I notice that my geasrcase was probably one of the last ones to be made with a straight skeg. Are there any rules of thumb about the length of taper, and the angle?

It appears to me that if I were to change the shape, I should make the bottom edge protrude down the same distance from the center of the propshaft to the cavitation plate (7.5" or so)

I notice that one side of my skeg seems to be flat, and the other is rounded.

I also notice that there is a small ~3/16" hole below the 4 water inlets. There is no mention as to it's purpose in my service manual. Que'st-ce que c'est?

Also, there is a passageway for intake water that leads directly to the exhaust. In this drawing, it shows it. Can someone explain what's happening here?

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/Lower%20Unit/2554944390091848696BuSQlf_fs.jpg

[Skoontz]

When you say dual rotary, do you mean a spool that both cabnles come off one side and connect from the same side to the motor?

Or does one cable come off each side and connect to the right and left side of the motor? You don't want a dual cable to one side steering set up if you can get the other kind. It's not as stable.

[whaledog]

Trim tab has a cooling water pickup to cool the prop hub in later production engines.

[Charles Salsman]

Hi Skoontz. The steering that I got is Teleflex Dual-Cable No-Feedback Rotary 4.2 "Pro" with tilt helm.

It is a side steering setup, as it is a bassboat. I extended the seat towards the center, but not totally, just about 8 inches closer. I built a new console and moved the steering wheel to the left also. It was very uncomfortable to sit there before I did all that. Anyway, there would be really no way to put in an opposed(?) cable setup.

The "Rack" dual nfb "Pro" kit was about the same cost, but they make you buy the tilt helm separately, so thats why I got the rotary. Im much farther along than when I took this picture, but it shows the console I built using the "hollow foam" trick & epoxy/fiberglass. I then made my first attempt at shooting metalflakes & gelcoat. Now, all the horizontal surfaces are dark(er) blue metalflake and the vertical surfaces inside the boat are white.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/000_0643.jpg

This was my old "console", if you want to call it that.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/G_00018-1.jpg


And finally, one more picture that inspires me.... I believe that is Darris Allison driving that beautiful boat, and Im pretty sure that's a 150 Merc. he's using!

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/A_Fn_NOOB/darrisbassrecord35kt.jpg

Looking at the various models they made (From pictures on the internet) from 1974-198? or so, they changed various features of the transoms each year until 1984 when they came out with an entirely new bass boat.

I may need to add a "channeled air planing apparatus" on the underside of that step, which was something had not yet thought of in '76... but thats a subject for another topic. This one is about waking up this old 135...

Back to the gearcase.... B. Leonard had written a post about these gearcases that said they would blow out at around 55-60 mph. Is it the blunt shape alone the reason for this, or the skeg? Or both?

In other words.... would I be able to put a cone on without a LWP and still be able to keep water pressure? Ive seen some mention of plugging some holes, or making one large opening for the water.

Roughly how many gallons/minute flow through an outboard of this size, at WOT? I have 2 tubes coming off of my impeller. Most just have 1.

[MN1]

Charles,
My brother raced a 1973 135 Johnson in 1974 in the FS class, with duel Ride Guide too. The class specified that the prop shaft had to be 5" below the bottom. He used a Merc 2 blade 28 pitch Elephant Ear prop which was made to fit the OMC. I believe the speed was 70 mph with two people, an (full)18 gal fuel tank and a 90 lb tractor weight glassed in.
We had Bill Richter Sr. mod the motor for us. I don't know what he did but it really helped. His son is on this site with the screen name (brichter).
Bill Gore has done lots of work to OMC V4 motors too. He's had many National Championships won with motors he's built in the Formula 100 class. And I'm sure more in other classes too.
He's an old time photo of my brother.
Mark Nelson

[Charles Salsman]

Ok, a middle of the night idea:

Is there any reason that I could not take a 1976-1978 V6 gear housing and stuff the internals of my gearcase inside, and bolt it up to my 135? From this, I would gain a more efficient nose, and the improved (and patented) skeg.

It looks like it would.... check this out also:

"Both the 400 and 800 series gearcases evolved from the Johnson/Evinrude outboard line (a division of OMC). The 4-cylinder/400 gearcase is similar to the V4 outboard gearcase and the V6/V8/800 series gearcase is similar to the V6 outboard gearcase. Other than the addition of a water pump, different drive shaft and shift mechanisms the stringer and Cobra gearcases will interchange with some of the outboard gearcases!


http://www.glmmarine.com/30yearsomc.html

Im not trying to reinvent the wheel here. But all of the discussions Ive seen about using a 135 powerhead on a later model mid/lower always look at the 140. But the 150 is a V6, and the 135 used a big FAT V6 housing.

Ok, shoot me down Bill.

Good night.

:D

[Skoontz]

The 135 used a club footed version of what the 99.6 cubic inch 140 had. The 99.6 cube 140 had better hydrodynamics than the 135. That was the years of '78 through '84 give or take. When the 122 cubic inch looper V-4 140 came out, it was basically a V-6 with two jugs cut off. All the big V-6 stuff which slowed it down tremendously and made it heavy. That engine ran the fat lower unit the V-6 had.

[Bill Gohr]

OK, You've been shot...............why would you want a "fatter" gearcase? We always try to use smaller ones, what are "we" nuts. Yes you are reinventing the wheel. Send your gearcase to someone who puts nosecones on and they will fit one to it, call it done, your parts will not fit in a V6, or a later gearcase, if you're going to do all this modding, why don't you just get a later engine??? Or put your powerhead on a later center and lower???? There are better things to think about in bed at night.................

[Bill Gohr]

And, the hole below the water pick ups is a drain, and the water that is blown in the exhaust is to cool the prop hub............

[Charles Salsman]

I was thinking this thing has the fat gearcase. It looks like a freakin' blimp!

And earlier in the evening I had seen a newer style gear housing on Ebay for sale for $50. and it looked like it would bolt up perfcectly. It was just a question in my mind. That answers that!

Actually the dogs barking next door woke me up. Then I started thinking about my gearcase.

[mac19f]

Roughly how many gallons/minute flow through an outboard of this size, at WOT? I have 2 tubes coming off of my impeller. Most just have 1.

One tube is a water return down from the thermostat to help the engine warm up quicker.

[Charles Salsman]

One tube is a water return down from the thermostat to help the engine warm up quicker.

Yeah, I knew that. The reason I specified that, was because I am wondering if, by using a LWP in the cone, I will affect the way my cooling system operates. I doubt it though.

Apparently, having a LWP changes the water pressure somewhat, and since my unit has a vernatherm and the recirculating operates by pressure....

[Charles Salsman]

Ok, I got my steering done. Tomtall, thanks for pointing out that T&R dual steering kit on Ebay. $17 was a huge bargain too.

All I had to do was grind 1/8" or so out of the sides of the bottom clamp (Only on the side marked "M") and then the clamp slid perfectly into the slot. Then it was just a matter of lining everything up. I had the motor hanging from a come-along, cant imagine it could even be done with the motor attached to the boat.

The kit was a T&R OSM3601 and it seems like a really nice, well made unit.

[Tomtall]

Charles - Glad it worked out for you. Now do us a favor when your done with this project and post some pictures for us. Thanks for all the replys guys on the steering system delema. I have been in the biz for 35 years and still learned stuff that I was not aware of. Isn't BRF cool !!!!!:cool: