can someone identify this gearcase

[largecar91]

I recently picked up 3 old Johnson and 1 old Evinrude racing engines and could use some help identifying them. I only took pictures of this Johnson tonight. The other Johnson motors look almost identicle to this one and they say PR55 on the flywheel. This motor doen't say anything on it. This is the only one with this type gearcase on it. They all have Vacturi carbs and a rotory valve except the Evinrude and it is a speeditwin. The lower unit says "107" on the lower unit and it also has a what appears to be a dragon above the number. Can anyone shed some light on this please. I know very little about the old Johnson and Evinrude motors. Thanks

[Jeff Lytle]

This is a Johnson PR alky burning racing engine. Usually, they are not original, as parts were added as the OEM stuff became scarce or outdated. These parts usually included the heads, crankcases, rods and cylinders, and sometimes rotary valves. The names Fuller, Jones, and Hubbell come to mind as suppliers for these parts, but they are usually id's by some kind of name or initial in the cast. Clyde Wiseman, aka Wiseco usually supplied the pistons for these engines in their later popular years. He also made a pile of neat accessories too like ignition plates and bowden cable holders. There were various mnfgr's for after market lower units as well, with names like Starnes and Hubbell being the most popular. These engines, including the Speeditwin usually bring a fair dollar if restored and advertised to the right market.

The steel brackets going from head to head were to prevent the cylinders from blowing off if the engine sucked in alot of water when you dumped. They would usually break off right at the crankcase where they are bolted on if not supported in this way. The thought of the day was, why ruin a good set of cylinders when doing this sort of bracing would cost you a set of rods.
Want a challenge? Restore one and take her for a rip! They are alot of fun to drive.

[largecar91]

Thanks Jeff. I am not sure what to do with them. Right now I am trying to find out what I have. The other gearcases I assume are stock racing units. they have a bolt in the front and have a bigger torpedo than this one. I would really like to find out who made this gearcase. I would think the dragon or snake or whatever it is can help identify it. I do know they are going to be loud! When the PR's were put away many years ago, they put the pistons back in with no rings(I guess so they wouldn't seize up over time?). They have 2 ring piston with pretty thick rings. I dug up all kinds of neat stuff this weekend including a pair of n.o.s. Twister 2 timing belts in a box from Dick Sherer with a card in it from Ed Lane @ Merit Marine!

[Jeff Lytle]

My guess is it's a Hubbell, since it's identical to the one I used to have on my PR. Same water p/u, same cavitation plate, same screw on nosecone. I don'r remember any id numbers or marks on mine either. The dragon isn't a manufacturers id either--never saw one of those before.

As for the other units you have with the bolt on the front, they sound like stock, but a pic would be nice. :D

[largecar91]

I Will Post Pics Of The Other Engines Tonight. Thanks Again.

[Skoontz]

Can tell you more about the PR then the factory Johnson engineers. He is restoring one of the motors right now...

[largecar91]

Here Are A Few More Pics Of The Other Motors. I Also Found In A Box An Original Old Johnson And Elto Racing Spec Sheet For Use By The Race Inspectors That Is For Motors From 1933 To 1940. :)

[oldalkydriver]

My eyes are getting bad (even noticing less women) however it appears that the lower left and the two lower right are 'C' Service enginees. The PR55 might have a hubbel unit, but I kind of think it was an 'F' unit. Lots of PR's ran an 'F' unit until Hubbel and Starnes started making more stream lined units for 'C' class. Toprahanian had an old 'F' unit that had the "dragon' symbol on it. Right over a number. If I remember correctly my asking him what it was, he explained that he had sent the unit to someone who worked over the gears and slimmed the outside of the unti down.

I just hope my memory isn't as bad as my eyes!

[Mark75H]

Al, I think you are correct.

[Skoontz]

I've done a litle studying myself...Lemmme axe ya...Are there screws recessed on the bottom of that case similar to how an
OMC/A case is bolted together, or is there an unscrewable tail? I think Al's right, it looks alot like an F case

[largecar91]

Thanks Very Much For All The Info. I Might Try To Get One Of Them Running. I Might Sell A Couple Of Them Also.

[rbengines]

It appears to be a Hubbell center and lower unit ,but all the one's my dad ran had Hubbell imbossed in the unit and center section. Could be an early one.

[Modhydro Steve]

Are you guys all sure that isn't just a partial stamping of the Johnson "Sea Horse?" I think I have a unit that it is more pronounced on and is just the Johnson logo. I don't know the progression, but know that there was a Johnson case that had that same basic shape with the removeable skeg. Bear in mind that with stuff 70+ years old that more than one file has probably been used on it!

In the muliple photo posting the top left engine appears slightly smaller on the heads, but it may be an illusion due to more castor goo discoloration. I was thinking it may be an SR.

Steve Roskowski

[Modhydro Steve]

It looks like part of this doesn't it:

[largecar91]

Steve, It Sure Looks Like A Dragon On The Case. I Will Try To Look At It A Little Closer Tonight And Maybe Post A Better Picture. It Does Have A Removable Skeg. I Am Going To Round Up Some Rings And Tear It Down And Try To Get This Motor Fired Up. I Think I Gotta Hear What It Sounds Like! I Assume These Were All Alcohol Motors.

[Jeff Lytle]

The other Johnson motors look almost identicle to this one and they say PR55 on the flywheel. This motor doen't say anything on it.

I had the same thoughts about at least one of them being a SR since it appeared that the head dia. was a tad smaller.

Do they ALL turn over?

The Speeditwin has been converted to a racing service engine, but it's still convertable back to the original if you can locate the key missing / replaced parts --The original gas carb and the exhaust seem to be the only things I can see that are missing, other than the lower unit. The steel tank bracket has been added to support the tank leaving the ports open. The original exhaust routed the gasses through the top of the lower unit, and supported the tank as well.
The fact that this engine still has 80% of the original stuff, including the tag would make it a real coin toss for me if I owned it.
The things I can see that would make it a less than competative C Service are:
The original tower (very prone to breakage.....most seen now have Wiseco replacements)
It still has the heavy magneto flywheel (We used to cut them down for better acceleration and either use 6 or 12 volt point, condenser, coil setups) It still has the choke on the Vacturi carb....These were not used in my day, we used to hand choke.

It looks to me like they are all alky / castor oil burners. The PR's used to run with the needle valve open about 2 1/2 turns, and my Speeditwins were around 2 turns. I used to time the Speeditwins at .350" BTDC, I cannot remember the PR setting.
Set the spark advance lever just a little past 1/2 way, any more and they will bite you!!
Wrap the cord around the flywheel and with the needle open and your hand over the carb, rock/bounce the flywheel into the compression stroke literally till' it soaks your hand (bout' 10-15 times) Prime a shot of gas into the exhaust ports and give it a good strong pull! The compression will surprise you!

Also, be very careful the engine dosn't run away on you if you are firing without a prop out of a test tank. I saw this happen more than once even after the ignition was grounded and a hand over the carb. I never could figure out why alot of the racers in Michigan used to fire up their engines in the pits and risk this. I knew if I had spark, the right needle and spark settings, it would run.

[Jeff Lytle]

Here's an excellent link that shows some restored PR's and Evinrudes as well.
If you look at the 1931 PR-55, you'll see one of the same unit's you have. Cool videos too! :D

http://www.frontiernet.net/~outboard/WebSite/index.htm

[largecar91]

Great Info, Thanks Again. I Took A Couple More Pics Tonight And I Saw That On The One With The Small Gearcase, The Cylinders Are Welded On The Top In The Same Spot. Kinda Looks Like They Might Have Done Some Internal Mods And Had To Weld The Jugs Back Up? ALSO IT COULD BE A SEAHORSE ON THE GEARCASE AND PART OF IT RUBBED OFF OVER THE YEARS?

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

The Johnson in the first pic has a SR-38/39 lower unit.
These[rare] units were made with a double pinion bearing, as is obvious by the long vertical bulge above the cav plate. Without bore dims, it is hard to say if the motor is an SR or PR, but I would bet its an SR.
The two SR-38/39s I have seen had no serial #s,
or model stamped on the rope plate.
The crankcase serial # identifys them.
This is a pic of a Hubbell C unit.

[Matts]

Hi!
While searching for timing info for a V4 Strangler I found this thread, nice to see there are discussions about the older stuff too! I am wondering if this is the "correct" gearcase for a PR55, I beleive it is but your opinions are very welcome. I also have an SR55, that 'case doesn't look the same. "Correct" for the SR? Not too many racing engines were imported to Sweden during the depression in the early 30's.
Thanks,
Matts

[russhill]

The gearcase on the engine in the top (first) picture is a positively a PR65. It may have been a "factory" (Johnson), or a Homer Price, or in later years,(1949 or so) a Hubbell. I assembled several dozen when I worked for Pep.

Homer Price had his made by prisoners in the Ohio State prison in the late '30s. I don't know which functions or what parts were made by the prisoners. They were not considered as good as "factory".

There may have been other manufacturers of the PR65 units that I don't know.

Some of the cases on the pictures further down may have been PR55s. The primary ddifferences were that the 55 was a two piece unit. i. e., the pinion shaft, gears were in the upper piece and the propellor shaft, gear, and bearings were in the lover half. The gear adjustment was through the front of the foot and there was a separate nose piece.

The PR65 was a single piece. Same was true for the SR65. There was a SR55 and a KR55. Due to the depression and all there was never a KR65 unit made, just PR and SR.*

The 65s were a single piece and were assembled thruough the bottom. That took some trickery and cussing to perform. The skeg had a flat top and three screws that closed up the foot and held the skeg.

The SR and PR 55s had a 12-21 gear ratio. The SR and PR 65s had a 13-19

I hope that more information than any of you ever wanted to know

Russ Hill

*Models above:
KR = A
SR = B
PR = C. If you don't know that, I'm really casting pearls before swine.

[Matts]

Great info I almost had enough, truly enjoyable! Those aftermarket gearcases from Hubbel (and others) where they of superior design like extended usage of ball bearings/sleeker body or was it more of a cost/availability issue? Sorry if I got too held up on this but I really do think the Rotary Valve Johnsons are such a beautiful & great running outboard. Thank you.

[Mark75H]

Availability ... OMC stopped making racers and parts in 1941

[russhill]

No, the early (Price, Hubbell, et al) aftermarket parts were not improvements. In some cases the weaker spots were "beefed up" but not changed--emulating "factory" was where the aftermaket tried to go.

Later, mid-50s, the new lower units started being improved. Not so much with bearings, but shapes and gear ratios. HH Starnes produced a 13-16 gear ratio which became sort of the standard. The Racing Commission changed the allowable minimum "R" measurement (R = cross sectional measurement of the foot)

Back yarders, notable Marshall Edridge, were building a few new more streamlined units beginning about 1950.

I believe the real motivation of the manufacturers was the advent of the Mercury QuickSilver. We ultimately just put our PR onto a Quicky, but there was a lot of early reluctance to "join the Mercury camp."

Russ Hill

PS your picture is a P-50, not a racing engine--note the muffler.

[Ron Hill]

As I recall, the external rotary valve make people think is was a "RACE" motor. Hans Monk had a "MAY TAG MOTHER" with a "Mixer Boxer" (External Rotary valve)....with lots of POLISHED METAL...But is was a P-50...

[Matts]

Thanks again for great info about the later gearcases!! Re the P50/PR55, i have always looked upon this motor as an early, racing enginge because the rope plate says "PR55 / serial 154931" and it runs way too good to be a stock C motor. But of course it could consist of parts from several motors, perhaps I should consider it as a "garage-built racer", not a true PR? Did the factory always delivery the racer PR/SR55's without the muffler, and what are the other distinctions between the PR55 and P50?
Oops now I got too help up again...

[russhill]

No, Ron , external (i. e., gear driven) rotary valves were on all S, P, V and X engines from 1929 through 1936. That's 20, 30, 40, and 50 ci.

And, Matts, there was really no difference in the power heads (to my knowledge) between the P45 through P80 and the PR55. The Ps had a muffler. They both had a one inch upper journal on the crank and bronze bushings.

The PR55 had a short tower housing and a PR55 foot. They both were 12:21 gear ratios and they both had essentially the same parts. The upper half of the unit of the PR55 was more streamlined and had no exhaust inlet place.

Now, the PR65 had almost no interchangeable parts with the "fishin" motors.

[Jeff Lytle]

Now, the PR65 had almost no interchangeable parts with the "fishin" motors.

Except for the rope plate!! It could be a PR65 rope plate!!

[Ron Hill]

My brother is too tough on us!!!


When I raced our DAd's Evinrude 6042....we knew, because Russ told us, to 'ROCK It' 17 times, pull it up to compression, turn the switch on and crank it..." (Make sure the fuel was on)....She always started....I won't argue with Russ on these "MAYTAG MOTHERS WITH MIXER BOXES".....If Russ says it is an XR 87...probably is an XR 87...new in 1932...he was there!!!

I do know that Hubbell's KR "A" lower unit was made from a wood pattern that my dad made. He traded Pep Hubbell a bicycle (My first bike) for this pattern...Orlando Torganti's "A" lower unit was made from this pattern, and he won five APBA and NOA Nationals in a row before he retired...So, SOME after market gearcases were faster than "FAFTORY" gearcases...

I know KG-4's, KG-7...20-H's....30-H's and 55-H's....After that...I'm lost...