FD67 Restoration Progress

[RogerH]

Well, I finally got some time to disassemble and start to clean up the "D" Looper. What a haven for spiders and mud wasps! Not to mention the moisture. It came apart hard but all the Quincy parts are in great shape. I'll try to add photos at the end - sort of a before and after.

I have a bunch of questions about things I noticed when disassembling the motor. I hope various people can answer my questions and provide some insight into why certain things were done as they were. These are in no particular order.

Pistons: I'm assuming the flat tops were a Quincy item. What is the purpose of the hole above the rod pin? What was the compression ratio of the "D" Looper?

Rod/Rod Bolt: I noticed that the rod cap and rod bolt were chamfered, was this for clearance or other reason? The crank didn't rotate so I couldn't check clearances etc.

Reed Cages: Were the "extra" side locating bolts necessary? Was surprised to find them - just curious. I also noticed that the reed stops were left stock, unlike on the deflector motor I have. Why not open the reed stop on the Loopers as well? Is it not needed with the extra ports? Also, my top and bottom cages were not the same. The top had one small hole added at the crank journal where the bottom had two 1/2" holes added to this area. The top cage's carb opening was opened about 1/4" more than the bottom's opening. Was this just production variation? What is the purpose of the holes at the crank journal area? Lubrication?

Thread Locker: I found a gray thread locker about EVERYWHERE! It made it very difficult to disassemble - heat became my friend! Was this an epoxy? Did Quincy use this or did Phil Crown do this?

Head Gaskets: Paul mentioned that they were painted and mine were also. Can these be reused? and if so, how & with what should they be painted with before assembly?

Gaskets: Are any of the Quincy unique gaskets available? Does anyone have patterns. These won't be too hard to make, but thought I'd ask about availability of patterns.

I anticipate replacing the rotating parts and will likely use new pistons from Dick Ollhoff. I believe the pistons might be reusable, but they are not very clean. The motor appears not to have been run very much as I see no indication of wear. The distributor rotor and terminals had only traces of pitting/black. I will likely update the distributor (red/blue type) with a 650 battery CDI unit. I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions of things I should do (or not do) during the rebuild. I haven't honed the cylinders yet, but they don't look too bad and I think they will clean up with a hone job. If you would rather call or eMail here is my contact information 423-452-0428, hinsdale@bellsouth.net. I'm hoping that the answers to some of the questions above will provide informations to others that enjoy these fantastic motors. I am fascinated with the overall design of the Looper block assembly!
Regards,
Roger

[Mark75H]

The hole in the piston communicates with the 5th transfer port, also called a "finger" port or "boost" port found across from the exhaust ports in each cylinder.

Incoming charge from the crankcase can pass thru the hole in the piston, along the slot in the cylinder and into the cylinder without taking the longer route thru the 4 side passages to the 4 larger transfer ports.

Post showing function of each port and passage on a Quincy Looper (http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7398&postcount=93)

The minimum cc's were 15cc's ... 177cc's with the piston at BDC ... 11.8:1 if you calculate the compression full stroke

[RogerH]

Thanks for the quick and informative reply. It makes the hobby much more interesting when you can learn the engineering and history associated with the motors being rebuilt. Thanks again!
Roger

[RogerH]

I found that one piston had been "chewing" on a small piece of the ring, but I don't think it has damaged the piston. The ring is history. I also doubt that I will be able to get the other three piston rings off without breaking them (stuck).

Where / How does one go about locating or having rings built for this motor?

The block bore cleaned up pretty well with by honing with a medium stone. I will be replacing all of the internal rotating parts as most were too pitted from rust to be reusable. I am thankful that the Quincy castings are in great shape considering the "junk" that was inside the motor.

[racnbns]

Roger---
I have some used L rings that would work if you can't find new ones. P M me or e-mail---racnbns@sbcglobal.net

Bruce

[Skoontz]

If you can't find usable cranks, you can shot peen the old one, then find a hard chromer, then take it to a crank grinder to put it to spec. The hard chrome is alot harder than the stock sufaces and will run forever.

[Mark75H]

If you can't find usable cranks, you can shot peen the old one, then find a hard chromer, then take it to a crank grinder to put it to spec. The hard chrome is alot harder than the stock sufaces and will run forever. There are thousands of useable cranks out there ... that will never be a problem.:rolleyes:

[RichardKCMo]

What R,s did loopers turn? Reason i ask is 'cause 4 cyl mod modas turn near 8k, mercs i mean, but 6s sound kool.
RichardKCMo

[racnbns]

What R,s did loopers turn? Reason i ask is 'cause 4 cyl mod modas turn near 8k, mercs i mean, but 6s sound kool.
RichardKCMo

I put a tach. on my C looper and saw 10,500. That was the only one I ever put a tach. on.

Bruce

[RogerH]

Thanks to Bruce I now have the last pieces of the internal rotating parts I needed to complete the restoration. Basically I've had to replace the entire rotating components with few exceptions. I'm also going to build a replacement set of reed cages based upon the "large" cages instead of the smaller ones. Will port match the openings to these castings. The original "small" cages were not usable. I also received some products from Orison today that I'm going to test for restoring the castings to their original condition (as best I can). I have done approx. 50 Corvette Rochester FI units, so am familiar with how touchy this is to do. By the way, I learned last week that my 65 Corvette FI coupe was lost forever in a garage fire at a good friend's home. At least the boating community has found XF14 again, and know that Bruce will do it justice for all to appreciate again. Keep us posted on your progress Bruce.
Regards,
Roger

[RogerH]

I inquired about the proper reeds for the Looper from Boyesen, and their reply is below. I can use stock 0.012" steel reeds of Boyesen's dual or single stage reeds.

What do you think???????

The Boyesen reed #241-16 is a dual-stage fiber reed, meaning a smaller solid reed sits on the top of a larger reed with a port. This is a performance reed that gets better bottom to middle than single stage reeds. The price for the Boyesen dual-stage fiber reed is $87.95 + shipping.

We also offer a single stage Boyesen fiberglass reed, part #16684. This single stage reed is the recommended replacement reed for the stock .012 steel reed. The price for the Boyesen single stage fiber reed is $87.95 + shipping.

Any fiber reeds will react better to engine pressure changes than the steel reeds do.

[Mark75H]

They are completely wrong that "any" fiber reed will react better to engine pressure changes than the steel reeds do. I do not know of any racer that can prove Boysen's reeds work any better than steel reeds do in Mercs. I do not believe that the dual stage reeds can be any better than steel or single stage reeds in Merc reed cages ... there just isn't enough room. If Boysen was right, every mod racer would be using them or at least all the winners

I cut my own reeds from flat G-10 board with solvent resistant epoxy I buy from a local plastic supply warehouse or carbon fiber I buy from a model supply website. $40 (including postage) gets me an 11 X 20 or so sheet of .015 carbon fiber which is a little weak for prolonged use, but I only need the motor to run 15 or 20 minutes between internal inspections. G-10 used to be half or a third as much, but I haven't bought any recently. .020 or .025 would react about the same as steel reeds and last a long time.

Contrary to what I was told before I started making my own reeds ... you can cut both fiberglass and carbon fiber with regular scissors and shape with a file, nail file or sandpaper. You can drill them with a regular drill bit or the point of a pocket knife.

[RogerH]

Sam, Thanks for the reply. I don't have any experience with anything but stock Merc reeds, thus I was curious what Boyesen would say. I'm likely to put the motor back with stock .012" steel reeds, considering the limited usage this motor will get. I have a set of kevlar reeds made by Larry McAfee. Am tempted to try them, but probably should do that in my Mark 55 or 58A first.

[David Mason]

I echo Sam's theory on Boysen Reeds. Go with the single stage from them or make your own, or Larry Macafee is an excellent choice to have some reeds made. He does fine work. If you need a coupler he can make those too.

Sam, carbon and glass are easy to work with, it is Kevlar you will have problems with normal equipment. You need some good Kevlar cutting scisors for that. They are not fancy, just serated I believe. Stick to the carbon or glass, it is a lot easier to work with.

[RogerH]

Not that anyone really cares, but I need to vent just a little bit. Anyone who thought they wanted these motors from Phil Crown's estate might be happy to know that Frank and I have worked hard to just get these motor's apart. Basically, they looked pretty good outwardly, but the crank assembly was a total loss. I beat the pistons out with 2x2 wood blocks. Believe it or not, the bore cleaned up with just a reamer. I've spent the better part of two days to get two towers apart. The thumb screws in Frank's and my LU's did not come loose with anything we tried, and had to be cut, drilled, and taped again.

I just took all the parts to a great media blaster I've located down here. He knows what he's doing and uses all kinds of media to get the right effect on various materials. I can trust him not to ruin these valuable parts. After that, the fun can begin as we put these motors back together.

Thanks for letting me vent! -- Roger

[fbref5269]

roger,

thank you, you vented for both of us. i think you said one other time that heat was your friend, it sure was in this tear down! the catch phrase was 'heat and beat'. seems that was the only way to get some of the non quincy parts loose. and by the way did you notice which parts survived the 40 years of storage? ALL THE QUINCY PARTS!!!!!!!!!! those parts were in great shape!!! that's a testament to pauls' dad and the crew at quincy welding. we're getting closer to the assembly stage!

frank