HELP 200 Rude XP Blowing CDI power packs

[bajarick]

Hello

I am having problems with the power pack on my 1993 Evinrude 200 XP. I have had the power pack replaced at least 4 times in as many years. It doesnt blow completely - I sometimes have spark on two or more cylinders. The last repair shop to fix the problem said the CDI was not grounded properly and added a good ground wire to the system a year and a half ago and it held up. However, just the other day seems like half of the power pack quit working.

Anyone else experiencing this problem?:eek:

Can anyone tell me why I keep eating up power packs?:eek:

Any information on this problem is appreciated.

[Tomtall]

Rick - Take it to the experts. Contact "Rapair" Ingitions at the below link. I have bought hundreds of ignitions components from them over the years. They have great tech support and also make quality product. Most of their ignition parts carry a 2 year warrenty. There are many things that can cause your CDI packs to keep failing. Give them a call and discuss the history of your failures. See what they say. Good luck! :)

http://www.rapair.com/Contact.aspx

[mercguy]

Hello

I am having problems with the power pack on my 1993 Evinrude 200 XP. I have had the power pack replaced at least 4 times in as many years. It doesnt blow completely - I sometimes have spark on two or more cylinders. The last repair shop to fix the problem said the CDI was not grounded properly and added a good ground wire to the system a year and a half ago and it held up. However, just the other day seems like half of the power pack quit working.

Anyone else experiencing this problem?:eek:

Can anyone tell me why I keep eating up power packs?:eek:

Any information on this problem is appreciated.



have you checked the stator output? How many volts is your chraging system putting out??

[bajarick]

Rick - Take it to the experts. Contact "Rapair" Ingitions at the below link. I have bought hundreds of ignitions components from them over the years. They have great tech support and also make quality product. Most of their ignition parts carry a 2 year warrenty. There are many things that can cause your CDI packs to keep failing. Give them a call and discuss the history of your failures. See what they say. Good luck! :)

http://www.rapair.com/Contact.aspx

Thanks Tomtall.

Ill call Rapair and see what they have to say.

[bajarick]

have you checked the stator output? How many volts is your chraging system putting out??

Mercguy,

The stator was replaced last time the CDI was replaced. It appeared to be putting out proper voltage - around 14.2. A couple of years back I had a magnet come off the flywheel. I blew two consecutive power packs during that episode - the mechanic was just changing out parts. Needless to say I have'nt been back to that repair shop since!:eek:

As previously stated, the last mechanic that worked on the ignition said there was a bad ground wire and he added this ground wire somewhere - but Im not sure where. At least that seemed to help the CDI Last longer than a year. My battery connections are all clean and tight.:eek:

[Bill Gohr]

Baja, reading your posts you're getting confused here. The battery side of your stator has nothing to do with the ignition side. Battery connections have nothing to do with it, once the motor starts you can disconnect it.

The stator output should be in the 150V range, thats on the brown wires at cranking. And yes a grounding problem could cause a pack to fail, but the standard ground if clean should be more than sufficient, and that means that the bolts holding the regulator down have the star washers on them, that could be checked with an ohm meter.

Did you check all your coils? See if they have a high primary resistance?

If you have good grounds, and good coils, with the correct stator output, you should be all good.

Now there were back in the 1993 age a bunch of packs that were made incorrectly, and that went on for a couple of years until they were redsigned inside, so don't include any of those. The SCR's would fail in those repeatedly.

Bill

[bajarick]

Baja, reading your posts you're getting confused here. The battery side of your stator has nothing to do with the ignition side. Battery connections have nothing to do with it, once the motor starts you can disconnect it.

The stator output should be in the 150V range, thats on the brown wires at cranking. And yes a grounding problem could cause a pack to fail, but the standard ground if clean should be more than sufficient, and that means that the bolts holding the regulator down have the star washers on them, that could be checked with an ohm meter.

Did you check all your coils? See if they have a high primary resistance?

If you have good grounds, and good coils, with the correct stator output, you should be all good.

Now there were back in the 1993 age a bunch of packs that were made incorrectly, and that went on for a couple of years until they were redsigned inside, so don't include any of those. The SCR's would fail in those repeatedly.

Bill

Thanks for joining in Bill.

Im pretty sure that the iginition side of the stator got screwed up when the magnets came loose on a previous episode of CDI failure. I will check the stator output at the brown wire.

I have not checked the coils, but I have never had a problem with them - even when the CDIs were blowing. I will check them for resistance though.

Not sure of the MFR of the power packs -dont have them in front of me right now - but the mechanic said they were aftermarket.

[Michael J Gwaltney]

Thanks for joining in Bill.

Im pretty sure that the iginition side of the stator got screwed up when the magnets came loose on a previous episode of CDI failure. I will check the stator output at the brown wire.

I have not checked the coils, but I have never had a problem with them - even when the CDIs were blowing. I will check them for resistance though.

Not sure of the MFR of the power packs -dont have them in front of me right now - but the mechanic said they were aftermarket.
Bill has covered most everything I could suggest. I might ad making sure Amphenol connector plugs and sockets are clean and seated correctly. Packs don't like intermitant connections.

Several dealers have told me Sierra is making a better product than OEM for less money. They are also pretty good with tech dealer assistance. NAPA also handles their product.

[bajarick]

Bill has covered most everything I could suggest. I might ad making sure Amphenol connector plugs and sockets are clean and seated correctly. Packs don't like intermitant connections.

Several dealers have told me Sierra is making a better product than OEM for less money. They are also pretty good with tech dealer assistance. NAPA also handles their product.

Hello Mike.

Who is Sierra? I cant say Ive heard of them. Do you have any contact info?

I know NAPA, but they dont sell outboard parts - do they?

I will make sure the Amphenol connector is good and clean.

Thanks,
Rick

[mercguy]

Mercguy,

The stator was replaced last time the CDI was replaced. It appeared to be putting out proper voltage - around 14.2. A couple of years back I had a magnet come off the flywheel. I blew two consecutive power packs during that episode - the mechanic was just changing out parts. Needless to say I have'nt been back to that repair shop since!:eek:

As previously stated, the last mechanic that worked on the ignition said there was a bad ground wire and he added this ground wire somewhere - but Im not sure where. At least that seemed to help the CDI Last longer than a year. My battery connections are all clean and tight.:eek:



did the flywheel get replaced or was the magnet reglued back into place? Stator output I was refering to, is the 150V Bill mentioned, not charging output. Although, I have seen when the motor is overcharging heavily, I have seen p/p's get fried.

[mercguy]

Hello Mike.

Who is Sierra? I cant say Ive heard of them. Do you have any contact info?

I know NAPA, but they dont sell outboard parts - do they?

I will make sure the Amphenol connector is good and clean.

Thanks,
Rick


Sierra is the marine parts aftermarket company OWNED by NAPA. You can look at a catalog of their parts at the local NAPA store. I am not a big fan of Sierra parts (gaskets, carb kits, fuel stuff, etc), but never really purchased any electrical/ignition parts from them. RAPAIR is pretty much the best aftermarket supplier of ignition components and make ALOT of the ignition parts in current outboard motors.

[whaledog]

You need a peak reading volt meter and a service manual to check your ignition circuits.you have quick start on that engine .to check power pack output you also need adapters PL88.is the power pack output dead or just one coil primary wire.Get a factory johnrude service manual and study it.
Factory manuals are cheaper than throwing money at the wrong thing.
what area are you in.are their no good johnrude dealers?

[bajarick]

did the flywheel get replaced or was the magnet reglued back into place? Stator output I was refering to, is the 150V Bill mentioned, not charging output. Although, I have seen when the motor is overcharging heavily, I have seen p/p's get fried.

Mercguy,

There was only one magnet that was reglued. I will have to check the voltage at the brown wire. 14.2 is the charging voltage as regulated by the rectifier. The loose magnets created an over charge effect. I dont I have that problem this time around.

This power pack lasted 1-1/2 years - about a half year longer than the rest that were replaced. The last mechanic to work on it was a certifed marina mechanic. He said the burned up power pack had not been properly grounded. He was the first to mention this.

He put a good ground on this power pack and it lasted about six months longer than the rest.

Rick

[bajarick]

You need a peak reading volt meter and a service manual to check your ignition circuits.you have quick start on that engine .to check power pack output you also need adapters PL88.is the power pack output dead or just one coil primary wire.Get a factory johnrude service manual and study it.
Factory manuals are cheaper than throwing money at the wrong thing.
what area are you in.are their no good johnrude dealers?

Whaledog,

Dont have a repair manual - but its not a shop manual.

Dont have the adapters to check the power pack.

Powperpack is still firing two out of six cylinders.

I think in all my cases, only half the powerpack blew - never the whole thing.

Never had a problem with the coils.

Im in the Baltimore area. Marine Max were the last folks to work on it. They made it run the longest between episodes. Unfortunately, they wont service OMCs anymore.

I guess its time to switch over to a Merc!

[Bill Gohr]

Whoa, you're gonna switch over to a Merc because of powerpack failures? Welcome to the world of buying a pair of switch boxes.

You have a cause to a reoccuring problem which hasn't been located. Find that, fix the problem.

And your loose magnet never caused your pack to fail, that doesn't over charge anything.

Where are you anyway?

[Skoontz]

sells quite a few outboard parts. You just have to tell them what and ask, and it always helps to have a factory part number.

[bajarick]

Whoa, you're gonna switch over to a Merc because of powerpack failures? Welcome to the world of buying a pair of switch boxes.

You have a cause to a reoccuring problem which hasn't been located. Find that, fix the problem.

And your loose magnet never caused your pack to fail, that doesn't over charge anything.

Where are you anyway?

Bill,

I'd LOVE to find the problem and fix it.

If an outboard mechanic cant find the recurring problem.....I know I dont have the skills to find it.

I do the annual maintenance like plugs, lower unit oil, grease, fogging, and change the prop! But beyond that Im just switching out parts at best.

Its just getting expensive trying to find the problem.

Im in Baltimore. There are tons of mechanics here, but I dont know them from a can of paint! So far Ive had at least 3 different mechanics in charge of repairing my iginition - none of the repairs have lasted.

Do you know anyone in the Baltimore Area?

Thanks,
Rick

[bajarick]

sells quite a few outboard parts. You just have to tell them what and ask, and it always helps to have a factory part number.

Cool. Ill keep that in mind.

[DKL]

Does this model engine have the mercury switch that kills the ignition when the motor gets tilted to far up...? Some Mercury outboards have this and cause symptoms like you describe. The shop my son works at had a motor with a similar issue, powerpak appeared to be bad on one side ,,then the other,,,then both at same time ect. very frustrating ordeal. Took him a couple days to figure it out

Seems there is a switch that will short out the pak if the motor hits something and tilts to far up,, preventing a over rev situation.The switch was bad causing intermittant shorting of the packs

Could it be a similar situation

[bajarick]

Does this model engine have the mercury switch that kills the ignition when the motor gets tilted to far up...? Some Mercury outboards have this and cause symptoms like you describe. The shop my son works at had a motor with a similar issue, powerpak appeared to be bad on one side ,,then the other,,,then both at same time ect. very frustrating ordeal. Took him a couple days to figure it out

Seems there is a switch that will short out the pak if the motor hits something and tilts to far up,, preventing a over rev situation.The switch was bad causing intermittant shorting of the packs

Could it be a similar situation

DKL,

That is an interesting proposal.

Im not sure if my year / model (1989 chassis - 1993 powerhead) has the mercury switch???

That is one thing about all of this is that I NEVER had the entire power pack die! Its was always two or three cylinders firing.

I have a kill switch with the plastic lanyard on it. Id have to look inside the control box to try and see the actual switch.

In fact, during this episode of failure, I remember hearing an alarm sound when I started having problems this time. I just cant remember if it was a solid beep or beep beep beep. Ive been told low oil makes the beep beep beep while beeeeeeeeeeep is the overheating signal. Didnt know that at the time.

Regardless, the beeping stopped. I wasnt sure why it beeped but it made me check the oil reservoir and it was low but far from empty - the tank was at least 1/8 full (the oil in the reservoir was about an 1-1/2 inches deep - low but not empty). I have not filled it up either. I will make sure its full and see what happens.

Ill check the kill switch after that!

Thanks for your input.:cool:

Rick

[DKL]

I am not familiar with the motor you have but most of the newer motors have safety built in for the oil and temp. alarms I think. if your only losing one cylinder seems like it could be a pinched wire or short giving you problems. check and clean all grounds again,a years worth of use you could have corrosion again, Electrical problems are some time the most diffcult to find, don't give up, take it one component at a time and check it out best you can. A shop manual is invaluable in these situations.I don't think your kill switch will be your problem.

[Bill Gohr]

OmC's don't have the full tilt mercury switches, only Merc does

[DKL]

OK, thats good to know,,,,rule that out then ,, all else fails check the muffler bearing:D

[bajarick]

...or send everything to the junk pile and start over!

Ha ha.

[mercguy]

...or send everything to the junk pile and start over!

Ha ha.

or buy a Merc!!!:D :D

seriously though, seems OMC powerpacks always end up failing...........more than any others..........

[mercguy]

DKL,

That is an interesting proposal.

Im not sure if my year / model (1989 chassis - 1993 powerhead) has the mercury switch???

That is one thing about all of this is that I NEVER had the entire power pack die! Its was always two or three cylinders firing.

I have a kill switch with the plastic lanyard on it. Id have to look inside the control box to try and see the actual switch.

In fact, during this episode of failure, I remember hearing an alarm sound when I started having problems this time. I just cant remember if it was a solid beep or beep beep beep. Ive been told low oil makes the beep beep beep while beeeeeeeeeeep is the overheating signal. Didnt know that at the time.

Regardless, the beeping stopped. I wasnt sure why it beeped but it made me check the oil reservoir and it was low but far from empty - the tank was at least 1/8 full (the oil in the reservoir was about an 1-1/2 inches deep - low but not empty). I have not filled it up either. I will make sure its full and see what happens.

Ill check the kill switch after that!

Thanks for your input.:cool:

Rick



Rick, if I were you, I would remove that VRO (oil injection) setup and use pre-mix fuel and never worry about that "beep beep beep" action. Does you VRO pump have a purple wire in the harness? The pre-purple wire VRO pumps (in my experience) would always send that "beep beep beep" signal for no reason. They would also "over oil".........can't say I have seen one fail for "lack of oil" though, like the Merc oil-injection did unfortunately (damn plastic oil injection gear on crankshaft)...........

[whaledog]

http://www.intercoastalmarinemd.com/
looks like a good dealer in your area .I started as a one man shop myself years ago .honest mechanics people always do good if they work hard at what they do well.
I would have a shop check it if your not able to.

[bajarick]

Whaledog,

Thanks for the info. Ill give them a call.

I also agree that when you love to do something - just do it. If you do it well the customers will always come back.

Rick

[bajarick]

or buy a Merc!!!:D :D

seriously though, seems OMC powerpacks always end up failing...........more than any others..........

Mercguy,

I have never had a problem with power packs until I bought this motor (the 200 Rude XP). It was used, but always ran very well as long as the power pack stayed alive.

Although Ive owned mostly OMC, I have alway had a fondness for the Mercs. I've owned a couple of Mercs (one 200 EFI, one 115 inline six, and currently a white 1962 50hp short shaft Merc).

The 115 was on a 14 ft tunnel hull / bobs nose cone / 28 inch chopper - boy was that fun.:D

Lookng for a small "D" sized runabout (cheap) to hang the 50 hp on.:cool:

Rick

[bajarick]

Well Guess what the problem turned out to be!

First of all the power pack was fine.

I was thrown back when the mechanic told me I needed a new starter and a new VRO pump!!:eek:

The folks at Intercoastal Marine said the starter was not spinning the motor up fast enough to generate enough voltage for the powerpack to fire all six plugs. Go figure!!!!

The other part of the problem was the VRO pump had given up like the Redskins:D

Whopping repair bill as those are expensive parts to replace - but she runs fine now.

I hit 70 mph out in Baltimore Harbor last week.

Thanks for all the tips.

See ya on the water:D

[Bill Gohr]

Well, thats great, but you never told me the problem was it wouldn't start, you said it was blowing packs.

If you would have told me that a lack of spark while cranking was the issue, I would have led you to the starter first.

We had weak starters in those years, there are 2 different style brushes for those. They are marked with "S" or "SF" the "S's" being the good ones. Also, depending on location of the battery. The size of the battery cables are VERY important. The factory cables are marginal at best over 10ft. The gear drive starter has a very high intitial cuurent draw. Therefore small battery cables will ruin even a good starter. I always liked the guys that would bolt cables together to extend them, and the customer would fail starters or would have hard starting problems.

Put like 0 gauge cables on your motor and it will always start better, and your starter will last longer.

[bajarick]

Well, thats great, but you never told me the problem was it wouldn't start, you said it was blowing packs.

If you would have told me that a lack of spark while cranking was the issue, I would have led you to the starter first.

We had weak starters in those years, there are 2 different style brushes for those. They are marked with "S" or "SF" the "S's" being the good ones. Also, depending on location of the battery. The size of the battery cables are VERY important. The factory cables are marginal at best over 10ft. The gear drive starter has a very high intitial cuurent draw. Therefore small battery cables will ruin even a good starter. I always liked the guys that would bolt cables together to extend them, and the customer would fail starters or would have hard starting problems.

Put like 0 gauge cables on your motor and it will always start better, and your starter will last longer.

Bill,

I really appreciate all your help as well as all the other guys that chipped in:cool:

I had been blowing power packs for the last few years. When the spark appreared to be failing me on this time - I assumed the power pack had failed once more.

I was shocked when the mechanic told me he got the plugs to fire by changing the starter:eek: I thought he was trying to rip me off:eek:

What you have stated above is even more interesting. Thanks for that information - I plan to look into the welding cables.

Again I appreciate everyones help in this matter. :D