Byers' race boats

[Tomtall]

Richard Byers race boats of Paw Paw Michigan held many records as this news article explains from 1968.

Article courtesy of Jerry Oberlin II. Thanks Jerry.:)

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Thanks to Jerry for sending that newspaper article to you Tom, and thank you for posting it. Besides those mentioned in the article Marshall Grant also had some Byers hydros. I never looked closely but "A BOAT NAMED SUE" was probably a Byers. I never knew that Byers first name was Richard and certainly didn't know what he looked like. Thanks again for posting that info.

[epugh66]

Nice piece of history. As I was reading, I was thinking you could change some names, dates and speeds and the story would apply to just everyone that ever nailed a boat together.

[Composite Specialties]

I totally agree with you Eric. If it were not for Tim Butts, John Yale, Carig Selvedge, Marchetti and others, I would have never been able to learn the history and evolution of the hydroplane and learn what if took to create my designs today and going forward. I think the most important part is the fact that everyone takes something from everyone and no one individual is responsible for any designs out there today. Those that choose to deny this are only fooling themselves.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

There were a couple of Byers class D pickelfork hydros here that proved to be sweet handling in their day. Their construction was first class, the building materials were quality. There is still one here where the other one went isn't known. There was a Byers conventional here earlier that went down the straights with a kind of a "tick" to it but none the less it handled well as a conventional. Some tell me that "tick" was a trait those Byers conventionals were known to have.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I don't know how to cut and paste snippets of that newspaper article, but I was really thrilled at his comment on the fact that hydros use an airfoil principal to get the hydros off the water. I had never seen a comment like that before dating back to the late 60's. According to the rule book all modern hydros were illegal for utilizing aerodynamics. When Tim Butts built SHADOWFAX for us in 1976, he utilized 45 degree airfoils at the transom which he had to disguise as braces for the thin portion of the boat. A number of us racing commissioners had been pushing to eliminate that outdated rule. It was finally gotten rid of in 1978 or 79. Byers was obviously knowledgeble with what he had to build according to the power of the engines and the speeds they would achieve.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

When I first saw those transom braces I thought it was to stabilize some twisting at the transom of the hydros I saw them on because their design was flawed so it was said. Not a flaw at all, it was part of a plan all along!

There have been a couple of hydros sold on Ebay at recent times that had those braces though some were bigger than others area wise but placement was pretty much the same. They were part of the scheme to get more airfoil aerodynamics into hydros too?

[Master Oil Racing Team]

The first two that Tim Butts built were thicker and had a longer wing section. If the ones you saw John would look like a cross section of a wing if sawed in half, then that's what they were. The underside was flat. The leading edge was thicker than the trailing edge with an upwards arch and thinning down at the trailing edge. The later models on the Butts' were thinner and less wing area from front to back. Dan and Jerry Kirts had some of these first designs, and I had them as well on our boat QUIEN SABE. At some point Tim had changed aerodynamics and bottom configuration to match power and prop designs to balance the boat where he got away from those "struts" as we had to call them. Once lift restrictions were taken off of hydros, Tim didn't have to worry about where he wanted to put the lift.

I never look at E Bay for anything unless someone has a link in a post. I would have been interested to see the boats you are talking about.

ADD: John, I just remembered and had to laugh about the time we received SHADOWFAX at the Kilos at Kaukauna and Tim told my Dad and I that if the inspector asked what they were, we were instructed to say we needed them to set the boat in the water after it was started because we had no handles on the transom.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

It turns out that one boat with real big struts is hanging on the wall of my recroom with some other raceboats beside it. One that sold on Ebay looks exactly like a Quincy Welding hydro pictured on this website by Looper One that has a Merc 4 cylinder hanging from it that has no stacks. Dave Storleen out of Minneapolis used to have a strutted Butts with a OMC 45SS FE on it. The struts were smaller on it in comparisson to the one hanging on my wall which looks like it has a quarter sheet of plywood for struts on each side so even in the last decade I must have seen at least 4 variants of struts at the transom of those hydros. Yet you look close at them and those transoms looked very strong but then Dave's OMC 45SS is no featherweight engine either.

[Tomtall]

A photo I took at Dayton this year of struts on a FE.

[jimmy robb]

\
A photo I took at Dayton this year of struts on a FE.

THe Struts on my 2007 Giles FEH are there to make the rear of boat stronger. This is the rig that Eric Vanover won FEH Champingship this year at Zanssville. Funny thing about my boat being included in this thread about Byers Hydros is the name of this boat is Mean Red 6 My dad had Dick byers bulid him a DMH/EMH in 1967 and he raced for the next 15 years and it was first Mean Red boat. My dad alway loved his Byers.

Bud Parker won his last race in DMH in that same Byers at Lake Odeasa MI around 1982.

Jim
7-M

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Those struts look just about exactly like the first ones Tim Butts put on our boats Jimmy. I can't tell exactly, but the way the highlights and shading are, it appears to have curvature on the upper surface. The apparent thinning of the mount on the cockpit toward the trailing surface make it look like an airfoil. It may not be, but it sure looks like one from the photo. In any case, they do give strength, especially with a heavy motor pushing hard through the turns.

One thing to be clear about is that the rear airfoils that Tim built were in no way like that over the transom of the unlimiteds. Before the rules were changed Tim Chance built a boat with one one each side of his transom that were like the unlimiteds. They lifted straight up. There is a thread somewhere around here where he described what happened. The vertical lift was like making the back end of the boat running on ball bearings. He backed off and came back to the pits and removed them from his boat. The ones Tim Butts made had very little vertical lift. Mounted at a 45 degree angle, they lifted perpendicular to the wing surface and the object was to get a little tail lift, but more than that....stability due to both airfoils pulling in opposite directions. It is similar to the Bonanza airplanes that had two v shaped stabilizers at the tail and no vertical stabilzer (rudder) to control left and right. The V shaped design allowed to raise and lower the tail as well as steer left and right.

I must say Jimmy that that is a really cool looking rig.:cool:

[jimmy robb]

Wayne,

Bill Giles has put struts on the last 3 FEH that he has bulit for me. But for this boat I wanted larger Struts/Wings than what he did for the other boats. Than saw on this web site a photo of one of your Butts boats and I e mailed it to bill and said thats what I wanted and yes it does look like a wing front to rear.

My dad was one of the first guys to get a Butts Pickle Fork Hydro to run modified division DMH/EMH in 1972 or 1973 back when Tim lived back in MT Clemens MI. It was real fast boat but he could not get it to control very well. It was one of best looking wood finished boats that I have ever seen. If I can find a photo of it I will post it.

Thanks for the complement on Mean Red 6 I will try to photo of the whole boat.

Jim
7-M

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Tim's boats were beautiful Jimmy. We learned during the days of runabouts that those furniture quality wood finishes of the DeSilva's would not stand up to the sun and heat of South Texas. We did run the first Butts Aerowing for a year though before we had to do a solid top coat of paint. You guys up North could race with fantastic 3D ribbons of wood grain finishes.:cool:

I would be very interested to know what the handling characteristics of your Dad's boat were. At that time, Tim was just starting to build boats for classes other than those he ran and there was probably a lot of back and forth input, plus guesswork on where to go with the design. I would appreciate any comments you may have on what you remember the handling problem was and I will run it past Tim. I haven't talked to him in a while anyway and he was fired up after the reunion. So I will probably have to sharpen my pencil.;):D

Post as pic of Mean Red 6, and if you by any chance have one of your Dad's old Butts, post that as well.

[Allen J. Lang]

Jim- Isn't the Byers your Dad had built and Bud ran his last race with now in the collection of Mark Suter with a Parker Modified D? Bud told me he liked the boat. I was glad to see Bud and Tim at the Constantine meet before Bud's passing.

[Tomtall]

Al - If your talking about this one your standing beside at Marks meet it is a "Yale" Hull.

[jimmy robb]

Allen,

The Yale you saw at Mark Sutters was Buds boat that I used to race when I was in high school Bud bought the boat from John Yale it was one of his own race boats as I rember it was built to run Super C hydro with a Cresent. Bud and my dad drove out east in the middle of winter to pick it up in like 1978 maybe. I rember it getting damaged at the 1979 Mod Nats. in Ravenswoods WV. The yale was not raced again untill Dale Ropp repaired it and took it to Ceader Rapids IA Nats. in 1980 for Bud to run. When the Boat there it needed to rigged it was a mess, Bud and I rigged it and Bud tested and like it alot my dad took it out with Dmod (40ci) and liked so well he asked Bud if he could run it in EMH and of course Bud let him.

Jim
7-M

[Allen J. Lang]

Tom and Jim- Just remember that the older you get, THE MIND is the first to go!!!! :D Jim, haven't seen you in many years since the AOMC meet in Pikney,MI meet in the middle of winter. You, young Jim and Rich Welch showed up. Young Jim was getting started in racing. He sure has moved up through the classes over the years. Miss those MI days and miss talking with Bud.
Tom, look what you have to look forward to with Adam as he just might move up through the stock ranks. I understand that Rich Welsh moved into the 45SS class for cockpit time.
Ye Olde Desert Geezer Al :cool:

[Danny Pigott]

Jimmy In 1973 At The APBA Mod Nats. In Ala. The Bottom Failed In My D/E Boat. Here I Was With No Boat To Run EMH That I Had Made The Field. In.I Saw That Your Dad Had Two Byers EMH Boats. I Ask Him If He Would Sell One,He Said I Could Have Them Both He Was Mad At Both Of Them. I Did Not Take 7M Which Was His Reg. Boat I Took 78M I Had Never Seen It Before.I Finished 3nd In That Race With That Boat. I Later Won Three APBA Nats Championships With This Byers Hydro It Was A Great Boat I Stll Have It Today. In 1977 I Bought A New Butts I Still Have It Also.That Is Another Story. Your Dad Was One Of The Great People That I Meet In Racing. I Would Love To Talk To Him . He Always Wanted That Boat Back.

[jimmy robb]

Danny,

My dad has told that story some many times about how you got that Byers. I rember that boat very well. Send me a e-mail with you phone # and I will get it to my dad he would love to talk to you Iam sure. He now lives in Elpaso TX. My email is meanred4@msn.com

Jim
7-M

[Tomtall]

Had a phone coversation with Jerry Oberlin this evening and he stated that Richard Byers got alot of his Aerodynamic ideas from being a stunt pilot of airplanes. He gave rides to those crazy enough to ride with him.:cool:

[M721son]

Tom
I got another little bit of information for you. Byer's built one Hydro that I believe was 15 foot, yes 15 foot. It was built to put an 8 cylinder Koning on for the Kurts family they were going to try and set a speed record with it. I seen the boat at Byers shop when we were having him build a trailer for us. I might be mistaken about the exact length of the boat for I was rather young, compared to you that is LOL
Jerry L. Oberlin

[Tomtall]

Interesting Jerry. I wonder if it was being built to run the 8 cyl Konig that now resides with Mark Sutter in his collection. Bye the way. What ever happened to Mr. Byers?

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Jerry, that is very interesting. That 8 cylinder Konig is undoubtedly the one Marshall Grant had. Marshall had a Byers that he originally ran that Konig on. The first one to drive it was Charlie Bailey. I think Marshall probably tested it himself afterwards and concluded it would take three takes of boat
designs to work it out to just be able to race it. It may be that he had Byers make that first long boat. About that same time we had a big Aerowing that Tim had built for us as an experimental D/F hydro for the high speed courses. We took delivery of it at the same race that Marshall got the 8 cylinder Konig from Dieter. We named it HONCHO. We raced it for a year, but it didn't have much lift at all for the racing we did, so Tim built us another boat.

At this time, Tim had never driven any boat larger than 350cc, so the designs were all best guesswork. My Dad gave HONCHO to Marshall and even though the motor was still more than HONCHO could handle, it was much better than the smaller Byers that had a lot more lift. Before the year was over Marshall got out of racing altogether so we never saw that Byers on the race course.

Dan Kirts continued to run the 8 cylinder Konig on the repainted HONCHO for the next couple of years, so I don't know what happened to the long Byers. Dan Kirts used to run Byers hydros as well, so maybe he might know what happened to it. If it was ever on a race course with the 8, it must have been at a regional race. I know that Danny raced that Konig at Constantine that opened some eyes, but no one said what transom it was hanging on.

[M721son]

Tom
Last I heard he still resides in PawPaw. I believe he got out of the boat building and started building trailers. He built the frame for a trailer for my dad It went to a Mr Buchanan in Kentucy I dont have any pictures of it, I believe he built some of the first enclosed trailers for Kurts.
Jerry

[M721son]

Jerry, that is very interesting. That 8 cylinder Konig is undoubtedly the one Marshall Grant had. Marshall had a Byers that he originally ran that Konig on. The first one to drive it was Charlie Bailey. I think Marshall probably tested it himself afterwards and concluded it would take three takes of boat
designs to work it out to just be able to race it. It may be that he had Byers make that first long boat. About that same time we had a big Aerowing that Tim had built for us as an experimental D/F hydro for the high speed courses. We took delivery of it at the same race that Marshall got the 8 cylinder Konig from Dieter. We named it HONCHO. We raced it for a year, but it didn't have much lift at all for the racing we did, so Tim built us another boat.

At this time, Tim had never driven any boat larger than 350cc, so the designs were all best guesswork. My Dad gave HONCHO to Marshall and even though the motor was still more than HONCHO could handle, it was much better than the smaller Byers that had a lot more lift. Before the year was over Marshall got out of racing altogether so we never saw that Byers on the race course.

Dan Kirts continued to run the 8 cylinder Konig on the repainted HONCHO for the next couple of years, so I don't know what happened to the long Byers. Dan Kirts used to run Byers hydros as well, so maybe he might know what happened to it. If it was ever on a race course with the 8, it must have been at a regional race. I know that Danny raced that Konig at Constantine that opened some eyes, but no one said what transom it was hanging on.

If i recall correctly they ran the boat in testing it kept going Airborne they never did get it completely opened up. I don't think the boat was ever run in competition. I know that there was allot of discussion on the design of that boat and its shortcomings between Byers and my Dad. I dont know if Byers built another hydro for the 8 or not. I do recall that it was a conventional styled Hydro though not a pickelfork

[David Mason]

Dick is still kicking around. So is one of his helpers, Phil. Together they drove a gazillion brass nails home. Phil still has his small hammer used to build the boats.

I know my dad raced Byers boats and did very well with them, very well. It helps that Byers is only about a 30 minute drive from us too.

I will let Dick and Phil know that the boats are now listed on the history of boat racing.

I shoot trap with Phil on Tuesdays, well I have not been in a while, so if any of you want to get a message to Dick or Phil let me know. I will go on a Tuesday eve and pass it along.

I always was in awe of Dick Byers, as he was the only builder I knew of when growing up. I know there were lots more, but as a kid things kind of stick in your mind when you actually meet them.

I also agree with Eric and Marc, I doubt you can contribute Hydroplane Design to any one person. Everyone borrows from others, and tries to improve on what they saw. That is what makes it so cool.