10 tunnel hull cougar cub help

[racecar001]

I am looking to get some where around 50-55mph out of this boat... what would be the best power option ? it would need power trim and a 15" mid other then that light as possible.. 25hp is not cutting it :):)

[Mark75H]

I'm thinking your quest may not be realistic

[Roy Hodges]

I am looking to get some where around 50-55mph out of this boat... what would be the best power option ? it would need power trim and a 15" mid other then that light as possible.. 25hp is not cutting it :):)............................................it seems to me ,that if that speed was attained, it would be a very DANGEROUS boat to drive.

[Fast Fred]

sounds like a job for a Stinger 75hp:eek::cool:
a hot rod yamaha 50hp may be best:cool:

[JohnsonM50]

Im thinkin all answers correct even tho the results may vari. :rolleyes: You havnt said enough about the rig.. motor, prop, setup & the thousand word picture. Id bet some things could be done with what you have within reason.

[john miffco]

the cougar cub was designed for the 15 hp motor,,,,25 max
mercury had a program with the 15hp for a while with this hull in the 80s

sides are short,narrow width,,sponsoms are short,,,compression made for 40mph max,average speed of 30-35,,different manufactures made this same hull in the 80s
so working with that design
gotta stay light on the transom,,,not to swamp it or give it transom weight
to pull bow over at high speeds

the tohatsu 40 with the sport c mods would get you close
to the boats original design weight on transom
also for more hp can use the omc 40-60 hp motors
2 cyl and made in a 15" mid for john boats
omc a bit heavier,,,,but more power to acieve speeds
radicall direction is the omc 45ss motor
shorter mid to get lower center of gravity,lots of power,,speedmaster for surface running,,,,,,,,,,,,
but but trying these combinations,,,,,,,,,
you will see the speeds your asking but the price is,,,,,,,,,,
must be set up properly,,,driven in good wind,,water conditions
wear safety gear and drive the boat with respect
it will bite you if not
john

[AFTERU]

Mine had a 44xs,lots of fun ,can't turn boat without rollin over past 25mph,have tried 1995 Merc 40hp with jackplate and 20" mid gets about 45mph w/ 18p merc chopper....

[racecar001]

ok well 50mph is not realistic.... my setup as is 25 merc 14p stock prop 5500rpms 25mph or so...I also have a ron hill cleaver 17p and it is slower with more rpms.... it should go faster then that right? the engine is mounted on the transom and the prop shaft is about 2" below the bottom of the boat, also I have tried a whale tail it helps on take off but hurts top speed by 3mph or so. any advise would help a ton.

[Fast Fred]

jack it UP on the transom.:cool:

[Ron Hill]

I'm serious here. This is the worst boat I ever turned over...With a 25 MP Mercury it will turn over driving straight...I suggest listening to John Miffco...

Betty Cook started making these "BABY" Cougars....until she drove one...

They should be saw up and burned....

I think the sponson are too deep in the fron, if you are going more than aboutr 20, when you hit a wave they turn turtle....

[JohnsonM50]

ok well 50mph is not realistic.... my setup as is 25 merc 14p stock prop 5500rpms 25mph or so...I also have a ron hill cleaver 17p and it is slower with more rpms.... it should go faster then that right? the engine is mounted on the transom and the prop shaft is about 2" below the bottom of the boat, also I have tried a whale tail it helps on take off but hurts top speed by 3mph or so. any advise would help a

If your stock prop does 25 or so and a more pitch prop does more Rs and less speed then its probably not hooking up fully. Is the cleaver a race prop or a hi perf. sport type? You need to know if its a surface prop or not to know if its too deep or shallow. In alot of cases when your not dealing with overwhelming HP the lesser pitch will accelerate better and be faster. I think from experience with your average 25s that 35 mph maybe more is possible, try different setups, note results. I like to make 1 change at a time so you dont guess as much if something works, or not. Good luck.:cool:

[JohnsonM50]

If your stock prop does 25 or so and a more pitch prop does more Rs and less speed then its probably not hooking up fully. Is the cleaver a race prop or a hi perf. sport type? You need to know if its a surface prop or not to know if its too deep or shallow. In alot of cases when your not dealing with overwhelming HP the lesser pitch will accelerate better and be faster. I think from experience with your average 25s that 35 mph maybe more is possible, try different setups, note results. I like to make 1 change at a time so you dont guess as much if something works, or not. Good luck.:cool:
I was writing this when Rons post came up, I dont know about the boat but would take serious the advise given. Not much more fun than a fast boat that can deliver and still be able to handle adversity, Ive been lucky with my Airborn and Bezoats. Maybe put a put-put motor on it and get another.:D

[john miffco]

as stated the hull was designed for a 15
20-25 mph for a childrens learning class,,,,mini mouse/mini mini gt type class
most were run with 25s as a play boat 25-30

can make it run fast with the motor combinations i stated
but then it becomes a serious driving boat over 30
as others said they dont turn,,,,,,,,,,,,
and so short,,,,gotta keep the transom weight light and bow down

sounds like the motor is too deep
water needs to be following below the cavitation plate
if whaletail slows it down this means it is dragging water,,,,,,,,
it should not touch water while in plane at speed

as ron said dont raise it NO higher than the proper height
of water just below cavitation plate
need all prop in the water possible to stay safe
we have a 12' scat cat with 25 merc on it it does 32-36
all stock
so properly set up you should see them speeds

is there any racer in his area
to give him some help and guidance????????
best to be set up right and be safe
no matter what size or speed is ran
john

[JohnsonM50]

I used to run a 72 OMC 50 hp on a 15' aluminum boat [the boat is well built and HD]. Had a hard time tracking straight cause it would porpoise/propwalk/ twist in sort of a rythem that I would sorta even out a little by moving the wheel in sinc. Turns out a whale tail was the ticket, the boat went a little faster just for tracking straight and leaped onto plane too. Yours mustve been dragging.

[racecar001]

wow burn the boat I just got um no thanks... didnt they used to race these things ? I cant imagine they all just flipped over :confused:... maybe I am doing something right it seems fine at 25mph turns fine and is stable when turning... hence why I am asking for positive help on making it go faster. so if I jack the engine up a bit the cleaver should work better?

[Mark75H]

wow burn the boat I just got um no thanks... didnt they used to race these things ? I cant imagine they all just flipped over :confused:... maybe I am doing something right it seems fine at 25mph turns fine and is stable when turning... hence why I am asking for positive help on making it go faster. so if I jack the engine up a bit the cleaver should work better?

Just because something was raced does not mean there were no restrictions, in fact most racing is highly restricted.

If you jack it up you are asking for trouble. 25 mph is THE speed, faster is trouble; the power you are already using is more than enough and the set up is right ... that's why you are still dry and not in the hospital.

They were raced, but with low power and NOT JACKED UP.

[Ron Hill]

I won't say I miss spoke....but

About 1984 Ernie Dawe and I started a class called C-NOD. It was an Addictor Boat and a 30 Tohatsu. We had raced these boats in the ocean...and basically run them everywhere with no mishaps.

As soon as the MERCURY RACING people heard of a one engine, one boat class (The next day at an APBA Convention)...Mercury offered the Merc Cub class...A Mercury 25 and Cougar Cub.... Mercury was fearing, and righly so, a Japanese invasion...

The problem was, the Addictor was a sea worthly, fun boat to drive and Cougar Cub would turn over in a heartbeat...I IN FACt never turned one over, except in my mind. I went testing with Betty Cook, and they turned the mother over in front of me going about 25-30... Dick something who worked for Betty Cook had his NOVICE SON driving, and he turned it over first lap...

Just an FYI: Charlie Strang's answer to C-NOD was to offer APBA the 15 A and 45 SS Evinrude/Johnson motor, if they'd keep C-NOD OUT....Ernie said build me the motors and we'll move C-NOD to OPC...OPC dropped C-NOD before anyone outside California and Minnesota heard of it....A dumb move, I always thought..

Enjoy the Cougar Cub, just be careful..

[john miffco]

well ron you would know better than any
about the 25 and cub combination,,,,,,,,
i thought it was the A/J 15 that they made then that was used
i know they had it on the water mouse
so if it was the 25 im corrected,,,,,,,,

in mini gt or gp the 25 was used
but these were mostly 12' boats
wider and longer,,,,,,,,,lots more stable

but still these cubs are fun LITTLE boats
should break 30 with the 25 set up properly
and if add more power,,,,,,,,
just be respectfull of a small boat not built to go 40+
and just have fun with it
john

[AFTERU]

This hull does 24.3mph on gps with stock 9.9omc w/15" mid,tilt pin in 3rd hole in,the hull is designed for 20"mid,your xd is 20",I agree w/Fred you need to jack that motor,way up....because this is a true tunnel w/ no center pod and it gets no air under till about 40+mph,your water line is at the bottom of the tunnel not the bottom of the sponson....@ this time keep the load light 3gal. can max,small if no battery,no fat friends etc.....if you need more info I need a pict of your exact set up and your weight.....very fun boat,still have mine,watch the turns!!!!

[racecar001]

thank you AFRERU... if you dont mind what is your email I can sen you some pics.

[Lee Motorsports]

As a former owner and driver of three of these 10' Cougar Cubs with 25XD Mercs back in 1984 - 1986, these boats are very fun to drive. Not too sure of Ron's experience with these, but I had a lot of fun in these as both lake boats and on a course. Of course, I was 14 years old and didn't know any better either. hehe.

With a 25 Merc, trimmed out in the #5 tilt pin hole, you can get 43-45mph with a re-pitched aluminum prop to 18". Mercury made an 18" Chopper for the 25 that you can find here or there sometimes on the internet. I lost the part number a couple years ago. If you get one of these Choppers, you are supposed to raise the engine 1" on the transom. Otherwise, leave it flush on the transom. The Chopper will not run any better than a repitched aluminum prop, so save your money and don't look for one. There are also some cleavers out there too, but I never ran one of those.

One thing about the #5 tilt pin hole, it will cavitate for days and never get on plane unless you are heading into the wind with serious waves to get it going. Once it planes though, you are trimmed to about the last 12" inches of the stern in the water at top speed. Start out in the #3 hole and work your way up until you get the feel for how to plane it out. Of course, I only weighed about 110lbs. back then.

I saw one on the net about 5 - 7 years ago out in Texas where a guy had taken this setup and put nitrous on the 25 Merc. I think it was a 50 shot, but he claimed the boat ran 80mph top speed. Not sure how long that engine will stay together and whether or not I could knowingly put someone in a Cougar Cub IF it really ran that kind of speed. I was never afraid of its attitude at mid 40's, but like others have stated, it wasn't meant for much more than that.

Good luck, have fun, and be SAFE. Slide over and lean into the turns to keep it right-side up when turning left. Like a dumbass, I tried to turn one over one time and almost succeeded. Never did though. Maybe Ron just weighed too much. hehe.

[WillySteve]

I am looking to get some where around 50-55mph out of this boat... what would be the best power option ? it would need power trim and a 15" mid other then that light as possible.. 25hp is not cutting it :):)
56255
My 10' Cougar Cub has an '85 25hp Merc...runs 38mph on it's on and 59mph GPS on the bottle!! Solid mounts on engine, a 10" Bob's jackplate and a SS Power Tech prop mandatory!
It handles like a dream and a TON of fun!!!!!!!!

[champ20B]

I am looking to get some where around 50-55mph out of this boat... what would be the best power option ? it would need power trim and a 15" mid other then that light as possible.. 25hp is not cutting it :):)

I have seen these before, though rarely. They look like a miniature version of an off-shore cat hull race boat (the kind millionares drive). The fact is though, these boats were not really made to be run in high water at all. The tunnel is more about getting a bit of speed from a mild powered outboard of the higher duty portable class (15-25 hp). Most of all, as a racer it was likely a novice type competitor. This would be more of a safe, family fun category of racing that could be a good introduction for practice of rules and sportsmanship. Like anything, it could be rigged and souped up to run fast, but a good idea would be to fix it up real nice and correct with the right intended motor. You see, what you have is a potential collectors item that you could sell later on and find a good deal on ,lets say, a nice classic "C" runabout (center fin) with a good mark 30H merc or YAMATO 102 or 302. :cool:

[ice_spy]

I ran one of these boats around my waterway for a few years. It came with a 20hp. Upgraded carb to 25hp but wasn't much better. Added power trim and the boat was much mlre fun and controlable. Still wouldnt plane without your mate up the front deck. Broke 3 swival brackets on the early type 80's mercs (same as 25xd) from jumping waves. This boat would prefer to cross over boat wake with the bow raised right up and glide on the back of the sponsons. I added trim tabs which helped this boat get on the plane and cushion landings from wave jumps. Boat begun to crack up and stress fractures so I took the deck off and layed up the hull with attention to the steps as blew out and cracked open twice. I added too much weight reinforcing the hull but it was so solid it felt and sounded like a thick glass boat. Never flexed again and could punch through chop without fear.
Most speed I got was 45-48mph with a 30hp mercury, 14p powertech prop. The 18p chopper didn't do anything.
Boat is definitely not designed for speed, it's a visual hull with steps and all but the design is for looks not performance. After realizing no matter what I did to the boat, jack plate, props, setback, it was never going to get on top those sponsons being far too narrow. I don't think these boats were meant to break free from the water through the tunnel plank, hence the step and extra raised tunnel in the plank. This would make the hull loose compression. Great boat for kids to get started in, or big kids to have fun in but one work of advice, put a foot throttle in it because you need two hands on the wheel and one foot on the throttle at all times to control the thing. I used to take my cub offshore wave jumping. Lol. Thought I was some sort of mini offshore cat boat before realizing it takes a small amount of water to Swamp these little boats. Make sure you have flotation;)
Fun boats to play around with and get very wet in. I had a blast in it for 3 years before wanting something more better designed.