OMC 727 race motor

[Powerabout]

Does anyone have any photos of the V6 looper race motor that came out after the CCC but before the V8?
Was it called a 727 internally at OMC?
Was it a one off or did it share this from the 90degree loopers?
Any still around?
Thanks
Powerabout

[brichter]

The 727 was before the triple C. It was a 2 liter (122 cubes) and it was not based on any production design. These were mounted on The V4 Strangler mid and gearcase. A small number of these were made for factory drivers only. Jim Nerstrom (NERSTROM on this site) would be the guy to ask about any technical details.
I doubt that any still exist but its possible.

[Powerabout]

Ok Thanks, ..2 MOD 50's joined at the crank??

how about the V6 engine Cees was working on.
What was that based on or was that a one off as well?

Powerabout

[Mark75H]

You will see that motor decaled as the Super Strangler V-6 and Stinger GP V-6. What I heard was OMC prototype protocol called for 5 prototype units of any prototype motor. One would be used in destructive analysis ... run it until it breaks ... and the other 4 would be tested otherwise. This sometimes let a pair of motors be decaled as Evinrudes and a pair as Johnsons.

I doubt the 727 was a pair of Mod50's Mod50's are 50 ci, 820cc; double would have been 100 ci or 1640cc

[Bill Gohr]

Well what I remember is the 727 came after the CCC, the 727 was a 6 cyl looper version of the V8. It was not a 90 degree.

The V6 Cees was working on was the SST3000 which was based on the production powerhead, and of course there were the 2.0L V6's but I think most of them were run overseas against the Merc 2.0L.

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

I did hear that the 727 was an incredible 3 litre V6 looper race motor which was significantly superior to the subsequent looper released by the production group but for reasons only known to the heirachy it was canned.

What I want to know is what was the F1X aka W9 motor which would have been a "fix" for the Mercury competition.

================================================== ========

[Mark75H]

Well what I remember is the 727 came after the CCC, the 727 was a 6 cyl looper version of the V8. It was not a 90 degree.


The numbers don't add up for that scenario. The first V8 was 3.5, adding 30% to a 2 liter only gives 2.6, pretty far off from 3.5.

Second, the 727 was raced in 1974 along side the V-4 Super Strangler & Stinger GP's, the CCC raced from 76 to 1980.

Perhaps some input from Mssrs Nerstrom and Hauenstien could clear this up. My notes say the 727 is a Hauenstien supervised motor, and the V-8 a Leek supervised motor; 2 different teams.

[Freddie Webb]

I hope someone comes on and clears this debate up. I spent lots of time on the phone with a lot of dead ends. I heard some neat stories but can't verify any of them, so I will set back and wait to see if anything matches what I was told.

[Powerabout]

There was a thread here or S&F which puts it during the V8 time or just after?
someone posted a photo (which I am sure I copied somewhere) which showed a powerhead painted the same colour as a 1975 75 stinger red.
It looked like a crossflow to me but the photo was low res.

What was the V6 that Cees VV was working on that seaway now has??

Clearly F1 was going to be 2.0 or 2.5 in those days I would guess?

[Powerabout]

Lets design it now...
60 degree v6 looper with the exhaust on the stb side of each bank!!!!
Closed deck block
Porting like a M31 but more radical as extra cubes allow higher porting
slide throttle with Motec injection and ignition
Slightly bigger bore but longer stroke and hence longer rods than a M31 so 186 ci x 2hp/ci = 372HP
see that easy!
anyone else?

[looseunit225]

Lets design it now...
60 degree v6 looper with the exhaust on the stb side of each bank!!!!
Closed deck block
Porting like a M31 but more radical as extra cubes allow higher porting
slide throttle with Motec injection and ignition
Slightly bigger bore but longer stroke and hence longer rods than a M31 so 186 ci x 2hp/ci = 372HP
see that easy!
anyone else?


you bassicly just described an engine thats here in Australia running in the Ski racing series!

90 degree V6 looper 3.3ltr ficht block with custom pistons V8 rods Etec front half Mad efi Slide front and Motec injection

estimated 400+ HP

[Powerabout]

what hull is that?

[looseunit225]

thats a labsport ventilator made in sydney Australia

that boat there is also going to be my new boat!

[Lars Strom]

This is the Molinari Monster.. 1979 or 1980.
if I remeber right..2 X 3 liters V-6 "Loopers" with Fuel injection..

[looseunit225]

do you know what speed that thing would pulll?

[Lars Strom]

I did see when "the Molinari Monster" was tested at Idroscalo, Italy.
A two point race course, 2 miles long..

How fast?? I do not know... but the sound was pretty good to.:)

[looseunit225]

i bet it would have been!

the guy thats got that boat that i posted a picture of is going to build a twin rig with two of those motec injected power heads

he is the pioneer of BRP racing here in australia and really knows his stuff!

[Powerabout]

Lars

Are you saying the 2 engines on the twin rig were 727 loopers and not CCC's?

Powerabout

[Lars Strom]

Lars

Are you saying the 2 engines on the twin rig were 727 loopers and not CCC's?

Powerabout


Hi,

I do not know exactly what 727 was..sorry.

BRF´s Jim Nerstrom is the man that knows for sure.

[looseunit225]

whats the diffrence between a 727 and a CCC

[Mark75H]

CCC was based on a production motor ... mostly a special front and lower unit.


The 727 was a prototype that was never put in production

[Powerabout]

Looseunit225

It seems to be a 60degree looper race motor that very few were made and we havn't yet found anyone that has any data on them.
They would be after the CCC

Powerabout

[Mark75H]

What I posted earlier on this thread is WRONG!

The 727 was after the CCC/RS!!


When the OMC & Mercury factory race wars moved from ON to OZ we found ourselves at a disadvantage to Mercury. Charlie Strang asked us to build the biggest displacement Loop V6 we felt we could put on the race course. OMC used three digit project numbers to track project costs. When we designed the first of many 3-cylinder race engines we were given project number 717 and because of its success became attached to numbers ending with “7”. The 727 Looper V6 was next followed by the Race V8 which was 757. The model numbers found on the serial number plate followed a different system, but that’s another story.

The 727 was a totally new design with early versions having a displacement of 173 cubic-inches followed by 183 cubic-inch versions. The engines were given to factory sponsored drivers and for a short time raced along side the V8. Jimbo did all of the development testing and Fred Hauenstein worked on this engine just before he left for Mercury. Torque and power were spectacular but RPM was limited due to the long stroke.

Jim

Find it has post # 7 here: http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12056&highlight=727#post12056

That would make the time 1980-81

This is all the information you will find anywhere on the 727!

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

There was a thread here or S&F which puts it during the V8 time or just after?
someone posted a photo (which I am sure I copied somewhere) which showed a powerhead painted the same colour as a 1975 75 stinger red.
It looked like a crossflow to me but the photo was low res.

What was the V6 that Cees VV was working on that seaway now has??

Clearly F1 was going to be 2.0 or 2.5 in those days I would guess?

You are thinking of the prototype V6 Johnson. Here is a picture:

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/4214/2898415340091848696S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2898415340091848696BPyhex)
================================================== =======

[Powerabout]

hi Liquid

Is that the only photo in existance?
I wonder if Jimbo can add any more?

Powerabout

[Mark75H]

Those pictures are from 1973 and are not the 1980-ish 727

[Lars Strom]

I believe the "Molinari Monster" and this one is the 727 engine..

[looseunit225]

so if we can make so much power out of these BRP engines why isnt any of us racing the engines in F1????

i relise that we cant get them to rev as hard as the 2ltr and 2.5ltr but theres NO replacement for the displacement!

[Lars Strom]

This is the Molinari Monster.. 1979 or 1980.
if I remeber right..2 X 3 liters V-6 "Loopers" with Fuel injection..

The Racing 3-litre loop V6 became OMC Project Number: 420A727

[looseunit225]

my life mission is to run a V6 looper in the F1 series and put the black crud back in its place

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

You are thinking of the prototype V6 Johnson. Here is a picture:

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/4214/2898415340091848696S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2898415340091848696BPyhex)
================================================== =======

THis motor is NOT the 727. It is an experimental V6 but not the 727. Jim Nerstrom intimated that there were many different cubic inch engines played with. The 727 was something very different &nd superior to the norm & the designers were surprised that the 727 designed was canned by the heirachy at OMC. I wish we could see the pictures Jim. I am willing & able to make it happen if you don't have the time.
Ken.
================================================== =======

[looseunit225]

i like the look of the fly wheel on that engine

the engine looks alot like a 60 degree

why did OMC deside to go with the 90 degree and merc stayed with the 60 degree

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Right from the start OMC, even in 1958 considered that the 90 degree engine was inherently better balanced & far less prone to problems than a 60 degree. It was not until 1991 that OMC went with the 60 degree concept in a V6 with the FastStrike & Intruder 150hp & 175 hp series. A 60 degree V4 115hp & 90hp was introduced in 1995. They are still retained till this day in the Evinrude E-Tec line. Beautiful motors, high torque, economical & are just getting better & better. I think they are going to become the motor of choice even more than they are now with the new technology being introduced in the 2010 & 2011 lines. All the larger V6 motors & V8 stayed with the 90 degree V.

You mention the flywheel. That style began life with the 1970 V4 Stinger/Strangler & I believe still in vogue with the V8 F1 motors.
================================================== ======

[looseunit225]

on my V6 3ltr looper i run a v4 looper fly wheel with a diffrent stator!

low amp ignition system they call it!

next year thow i will be running a flat alloy fly wheel because il have motec injection!

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

on my V6 3ltr looper i run a v4 looper fly wheel with a diffrent stator!

low amp ignition system they call it!

next year thow i will be running a flat alloy fly wheel because il have motec injection!

I have heard there are to be some very interesting additions to the ski racing circuit shortly. Perhaps OMC/BRP in MOC will dominate COMPLETELY!!!!!!
================================================== ======

[looseunit225]

what do you mean dominate completely

we already doo

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Yes I know, BUT wouldn't it be nice to put those BIG BIG inboards in their place. A bit of an ask BUT!!!!!!

================================================== =======

[Skoontz]

When we first saw one of those flywheels on a late production Stinger at the Chicago boat show, dad and I thought it was pretty weird....But then OMC had a closed loop video with cameras mounted on the engine as a tunnel boat hurled around a race course, slamming waves, and hitting 180° turns. To see that thing flex off the mounting, then spring back in place was wild!

Apparently they had issues with crankshaft tops bending and sometimes breaking right out of the motors. Imagine a 10 lb disc spinning at 6500 or so RPM winging it's way forard at 85plus MPH....


Sure wish I could see some of those closed loop films again.

[looseunit225]

well i can tell you now theres a boat that just came out of the mould thats going to do exactly what you say!

its going to blow the big ionboards into next week!

two 3.3ltr slide front motec injected suicide machines!

with 6 inch trunks and quick foot gear boxes

[Powerabout]

Maybe we could get Ron to ask Jimbo who worked on the 727's
What was OMC's policy re development stuff, re melt or just shove it in the corner?

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

well i can tell you now theres a boat that just came out of the mould thats going to do exactly what you say!

its going to blow the big ionboards into next week!

two 3.3ltr slide front motec injected suicide machines!

with 6 inch trunks and quick foot gear boxes


I just knew an AUSSIE team would do it. 2 x V6 or V8 motors, Fuel injected, x 12" mid F1 Gearcase on a ski boat. Now that is the way to do it. An unexpected souce alluded to something special coming up a couple of months ago but never let on except for a request for pictures of a particular engine. I knew in my bones that this was it. Twins could just be the ticket. In the 1980's Single V8 F1's, routinely hit well over 140mph & sometimes 155mph on the race circuit. With todays technology & Aussie knowhow it WILL happen. Just let me in on the testing so I can get pictures PLEASE!!!!

[looseunit225]

I just knew an AUSSIE team would do it. 2 x V6 or V8 motors, Fuel injected, x 12" mid F1 Gearcase on a ski boat. Now that is the way to do it. An unexpected souce alluded to something special coming up a couple of months ago but never let on except for a request for pictures of a particular engine. I knew in my bones that this was it. Twins could just be the ticket. In the 1980's Single V8 F1's, routinely hit well over 140mph & sometimes 155mph on the race circuit. With todays technology & Aussie knowhow it WILL happen. Just let me in on the testing so I can get pictures PLEASE!!!!

they are 2 V6 3.3;tr ficht blocks with etec fronts! on 6 inch mid sections

NOT 12inch 6INCH

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

they are 2 V6 3.3;tr ficht blocks with etec fronts! on 6 inch mid sections

NOT 12inch 6INCH

That's what I meant sorry. Damn exciting stuff. I gotta see this.

These are some of the 6 x E-Tec powered tunnels running in this years Rouen 24 hour race on 3rd & 4th May.

6" mid F1 gearcase E-Tec 250 Private Entry of JM Rangotte. He has been running Johnson for many years. I think he has won or come very close to winning Rouen at least once.

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/35208/2550938900101354590S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2550938900101354590pYCHoH)

MORE HERE:-

*2009 - 24 heures de Rouen Powerboat Race:- http://rides.webshots.com/album/571198152QULkDm?vhost=rides

================================================== ================================================

[Powerabout]

Liquid

Dont forget we had a twin V8 ski race boat in the 80's (rigged by my fellow Frankstonian 'Wheel Barrow' and you must remember Danny Bertels from Belguim and the very sad death of his father?
I was doing an offshore marathon at Eppalock once and there was some ski racing the next day, Brickers twin V8's made the inboards look very slow

Powerabout

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Liquid

Dont forget we had a twin V8 ski race boat in the 80's (rigged by my fellow Frankstonian 'Wheel Barrow' and you must remember Danny Bertels from Belguim and the very sad death of his father?
I was doing an offshore marathon at Eppalock once and there was some ski racing the next day, Brickers twin V8's made the inboards look very slow

Powerabout

Unfortunately I am on a continuous learning curve. Everything I learn I eventually share on my websites. Any info, photo's video's or whatever you can contribute I will gladly post & share. I have a new way to make it easy to find things on my sites coming up. Stay tuned.

This new twin rig is really going to be something else. I am looking forward to learning more.

ken

[Powerabout]

Eric Barrow is still listed as the BRP dealer
28 Overton Rd
Frankston
3199

He must have plenty of photos as a leading OMC man for many years
Regards
Powerabout

[looseunit225]

Where abouts in NSW are you liquid?

are you going to the bridge to bridge power boat race next weekend?

is there any one else attending the power boat race?

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Where abouts in NSW are you liquid?

are you going to the bridge to bridge power boat race next weekend?

is there any one else attending the power boat race?

I live in Nowra, New South Wales.

Working this weekend unfortunately. I have to get to some of these races & meet some of the guys. All this ski race stuff is awesome. "World Leading" is probably a more appropriate saying. You guys really rock.

[looseunit225]

hahaha yeah we try!

i've met some of the best people in ski racing and in saying that i have met also some or the worst people its a give and take i spose but i will take the good with the bad!

i didnt mean this weekend its next weekend the race is on the 3rd

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

hahaha yeah we try!

i've met some of the best people in ski racing and in saying that i have met also some or the worst people its a give and take i spose but i will take the good with the bad!

i didnt mean this weekend its next weekend the race is on the 3rd

Saw your boat on TV last Sunday (I think) On "Speedweek" Wicked sound. Is the "Motec" V6 3 cylinder on the Labsport. Can you give some specs, RPM etc (If in ain't secret that is).

[looseunit225]

the engin started life as a 3.3ltr ficht injection engine!

bolted a Etec front half to it

used old style large rods
custom pistons
and motec injection-ignition on it with a MAD EFI slide front

the engine pulls arround the 8,000rpm mark but could probly get some more out of it!

so this weekend we are going to try and strech her out a bit at the one up and we want to break 100mph with a skier on the back!

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

the engin started life as a 3.3ltr ficht injection engine!

bolted a Etec front half to it

used old style large rods
custom pistons
and motec injection-ignition on it with a MAD EFI slide front

the engine pulls arround the 8,000rpm mark but could probly get some more out of it!

so this weekend we are going to try and strech her out a bit at the one up and we want to break 100mph with a skier on the back!


Where is the bridge to Bridge race this weekend


AS a side note Adam Whitfield aka Bullet 1650 has just hit GPS 98mph with an STV & a stock Evinrude 250HO including STOCK L2 gearcase in Sydney, Australia. Has a modified same brand prop on the way which will hopefully see him to 100mph+. These new L2 gearcases & the 250HO's are awesome. Again I'm saying ALL STOCK, no mods, no nosecones. Factory EMM Rev limited to 6300rpm.

[looseunit225]

what do you mean by a L2 box do you mean the 250 ho lightining gearbox?

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

what do you mean by a L2 box do you mean the 250 ho lightining gearbox?

Yes. Stock Standard. 1.71:1 32" Mazco Stock.

No nose cone, nothing.

This is a fishin' motor damnit

[Woodduck]

Ken, I think Adam lives in Sydney, his brother will probably run in the powerboat race on sunday morning, 1750 bullet with a 2.5 merc on it. I wonder if Adam is racing the STV. That boat should run over a 100mph easy. Brad groves force will do that too propped up. He's hitting mid 80's with two skiers.
Anthony, have you taken possesion of Darren's boat and motor yet and racing it in Sydney or is he driving it. 100mph 1 up would be cool. Are you buying the hull and injection/ignition/motec less block or are you getting the block too. Did you ever rebuild yours after it popped?

[Woodduck]

Adams ordered a Mercury 4 blade pro et. He hopes it will work out.

[Powerabout]

nice thread but where's my 727?
anyway I'd settle for the new SeaWay F1 motor....any news on that?

Best of luck to the Brp's for the Bridge

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

nice thread but where's my 727?
anyway I'd settle for the new SeaWay F1 motor....any news on that?

Best of luck to the Brp's for the Bridge

It would have to be darn good to top Darrens Motec liveried baby's.

We will see. Very Exciting stuff.

[looseunit225]

im going up to the brisge 1 up with darren and its the last race he will be doing as the boat being his!

after than the boat is mine but the engine stays as his!

we will be racing the boat and his engine togeather for the start of the ski racing season for the sydney bridge to bridge and the grafton race next season!

by than his new boat should be ready and my new engine should be ready

i've bought the boat and will be buying the injection-ignition motec system and will be bolting it onto a 3 ltr that i have started porting out and working on!

[looseunit225]

Yes. Stock Standard. 1.71:1 32" Mazco Stock.

No nose cone, nothing.

This is a fishin' motor damnit


i run one of those gearboxes on my engine at the moment they are alright but they would be better if someone made a low water pickup kit for it!

[RogerH]

I'm getting closer to having this done. Need to make a starboard side exhaust filler block and wire up/debug the ignition. The motor is a Wilbur Weeks prepared block (160cu.in. not 149.9) with the RS intake/carbs/exhaust and a set of dual plugs heads by WW. Need to strip/paint the Molinari and then hit the Vintage events.

Does any one know how I might contact Wilbur Weeks to discuss this motor / heads with him. Freddie Webb told me he thought he resided in Florida. I'd like to contact him or have him contact me.

The post on this thread have been very interesting - thanks to everyone.
Roger Hinsdale
hinsdale@bellsouth.net 423-452-0428
Spring City, TN

[Freddie Webb]

Roger, I have his number. The motor looks awesome!!! Great Job.

[looseunit225]

that looks sweet!

whats that power head sitting on the wooden crate in the back ground?

[Powerabout]

I think that is the powerhead he has built for it?

[looseunit225]

damn thats neat!

[Freddie Webb]

Roger, prop nut, splined washer, and thrust washer will go out Friday.

[RogerH]

The block assembly behind the picture is the motor that goes in the case. I'm just finishing up the starboard filler block and then it's together. I'm going to put the entire boat together for a local show and then get busy on the paint stripping / re-painting. The 149.9 RS block with the harmonic balancer crank is upstairs. Freddie tells me that Wilbur Weeks wasn't a fan of the balancer, so didn't use them. I'll post better pictures of the boat & motor after I get it back together next week.

[looseunit225]

Hey guys just thought i would let you know ACE Racing completed the bridge to bridge 1 UP ski race in a time of 41:44 comming first in MOC with the next boat 3 minutes behind ACE
ACE also got 8th out right in the race and beat all except 2 unlimited boats!

Not bad for a little white Labsport with a single rig!

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Hey guys just thought i would let you know ACE Racing completed the bridge to bridge 1 UP ski race in a time of 41:44 comming first in MOC with the next boat 3 minutes behind ACE
ACE also got 8th out right in the race and beat all except 2 unlimited boats!

Not bad for a little white Labsport with a single rig!

Superb, Fantastic & Well Done. Now all I want to see is BRP build a "Green" version of that engine & release it to the general population. Then the "Feathers will fly" Game Over. In fact a multi engine version could shake up "Unlimited" in Australian Ski Racing

Ken

[looseunit225]

well to be seriously honest with you The engine thats on the back of ACE wouldnt really be that bad to the enviroment you would be supprised it would nearly pass if not would pass Australian standards

[RogerH]

I put the RS on the Molinari for Henry Champaghy's AOMCI show in Lewisville this coming Saturday. I obviously still have to strip the boat and redo the paint. Will keep the same paint design and just change the lettering. I have a few things to finish on the motor, but it's pretty well done. I'm anxious to drive the SST120 at the APBA driver's school in Dayton at the end of the month. Hopefully that gets me ready to get this running for a few Vintage events. It doesn't look bad for a 1970 paint job. Maybe if I left it out side a few more years all of the paint would pop off! Everything is present with the exception of: trim /lift hoses, wiring, foot throttle, 1-exhaust filler block. I'm adding a removable steering hub, as I'm too OLD to get out of this thing with any grace at all. Got to love this vintage stuff!
Roger

[looseunit225]

that looks awesome really great resto on the engine and the boat doesnt look to bad considering the age of it i rekon it will be one of the best looking boats of its era once you have finished!

[RogerH]

Thanks - You can probably tell I like working ont he motors a lot more than the wood finishing. I really hate to paint! I'd like to see a few pictures and some details of the motor you're running. - Roger

[looseunit225]

well there isnt much of a engine that im running at the moment my screamer engine has a hole in the side of it and is probly on its way back to china to get melted into a new car!

i have another power head sitting on the bench with half a port job done to it and im too lazy to go out and finish it!

and the engine thats currently on my boat has a water issue into number 6 cylinder hahahaha!

so yeah can really tell you much at the moment but there is a engine in the making the engine that i have started porting out will be a fuel injected power head with a MAD EFI setup on the engine and some other bits and pieces just waiting on the Aussie dollar to get stronger so its cheaper for me to buy the parts from the States!

[Roy Hodges]

just waiting on the Aussie dollar to get stronger so its cheaper for me to buy the parts from the States! .................................................. .................................................. ................
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................
Hey ! you better SMILE when you say that !

[looseunit225]

whats wrong with that hahahaha?

[RogerH]

I'm not sure that a motor is ever finished, but this one is getting close to it. Thought some pictures might be appropriate. I made fuel rails for the 6-carbs and brackets to mount the 6 dual coils for the dual plug heads. All of these hit either the cover or the bottom tub when I put it all together. Forgot about the upward slop of the bottom pan and the rearward slope of the cover - DUH! Of course all the plug wires were too short after I moved the coils to fit. Fun & games. Pleased with the results and want to thank a bunch of people that have helped me with this motor. Now I don't have any excuses and will have to strip the Molinari and paint it so I can give this thing a ride. Special thanks to Freddie Webb and Pete Nydahl. - Roger

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

An absolute "Work of art". You are a credit. Thankyou for sharing. I'm sure everybody that see's this will be as impressed as I am.

Ken

[Fast Fred]

:cool:

[jphii1]

Looking good Roger. How about bringing it to Kingston for display?

[RogerH]

Looking good Roger. How about bringing it to Kingston for display?

Joe, Let me know when the Kinston, TN event is, as I'd like to be there. Not sure if I'll have the Molinari/Johnson available as I just took it completely apart today to start the hull restoration.
Roger
hinsdale@bellsouth.net or 423-452-0428

[jphii1]

It's the weekend of July 4th.

[Rotary John]

Looking good Roger. How about bringing it to Kingston for display?

Where did you get the Johnson Rotary decal?
John

[jphii1]

It was on the ebay ad for the "rotary" a while back.

[swmjake]

I have a 727 - got it with all the stuff that I purchased from Cees.

[Mark75H]

I have a 727 - got it with all the stuff that I purchased from Cees.

Pictures?

[swmjake]

Here is a couple of shots - I have the complete motor - I just need to re-sleeve one hole and put it all together.

[Powerabout]

Great stuff
Any idea on when it was raced and or tested?
How many did they make?
Thanks

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

Here is a couple of shots - I have the complete motor - I just need to re-sleeve one hole and put it all together.


RARE RARE RARE -

BRP should take a look at this. I was told that this motor was a a breakthrough in technology & many were astounded that OMC did not put it into production.

Ken

[Mark75H]

I think Jim Nerstrom went thru this motor pretty throughly


Originally Posted by Nerstrom
When the OMC & Mercury factory race wars moved from ON to OZ we found ourselves at a disadvantage to Mercury. Charlie Strang asked us to build the biggest displacement Loop V6 we felt we could put on the race course. OMC used three digit project numbers to track project costs. When we designed the first of many 3-cylinder race engines we were given project number 717 and because of its success became attached to numbers ending with “7”. The 727 Looper V6 was next followed by the Race V8 which was 757. The model numbers found on the serial number plate followed a different system, but that’s another story.

The 727 was a totally new design with early versions having a displacement of 173 cubic-inches followed by 183 cubic-inch versions. The engines were given to factory sponsored drivers and for a short time raced along side the V8. Jimbo did all of the development testing and Fred Hauenstein worked on this engine just before he left for Mercury. Torque and power were spectacular but RPM was limited due to the long stroke.

Jim

My notes say the V-8 racers started in 1980 ... so the 727 would fall somewhere between 1977 and 1980-81.

[Powerabout]

Any updates Greg?

[RogerH]

Just catching up with this thread. A while back I cam into the possession of what I thought was a CCC gearcase. The first clue was when I saw the water pump casting number had 727 on it. The 2nd clue was when it wouldn't bolt up to the CCC midsection. Upon close inspection I could find 10-12 diferences, but they wren't obvious at first. Take a look at the side by side pictures of a CCC GC and the 727 GC. The CCC GC has the 2-piece shaft. Greg now has this unit.

Well I can't add the photos????

[Ron Hill]

Ronhill@hillmarine.com and I'll try and post them.

[RogerH]

Ronhill@hillmarine.com and I'll try and post them.

Ron, I'll try again this morning and send them via email if I am unsucessful - Thanks Roger

61504 61505

[RogerH]

727 vs CCC: A couple of things that aren't too obvious from the photos: There is an extra pair of mounting studs. The water pump housing is a bit wider and
contacted the CCC midsection. The driveshaft is 1.1" longer, so the 727 must not have had the harmonic balancer on the bottom of the crankshaft. The 727 propshaft has a longer spline so will accept the high rake Mercury props. I also have a CCC gearcase with that propshaft (not the one pictured). The skegs are different. The gear lube filler holes are located differently. Notice the extra material as the GC meets the cavitation plate area. It also has a slightly different
shape in that area. I did not get into the unit very far, but did remove the waterpump housing.
Jim Nerstrum explained to Greg about how the gears worked in these units. I can't remember the details. I believe there were three gear ratios that were changed by replacing just the top two gears. Think the rations were 17:19, 18:19 and 19:19 and that they settled on the 18:19 ratio. Jim N will recall.
I did mount this unit on my Johnson RS midsection (took the stud set out and clearanced the mid just a bit at the water pump) but never ran it.

[Powerabout]

Hi Roger
Did it have 3 gears under the waterpump to allow ratio change?

[Steve Pinson]

727 vs CCC: A couple of things that aren't too obvious from the photos: There is an extra pair of mounting studs. The water pump housing is a bit wider and
contacted the CCC midsection. The driveshaft is 1.1" longer, so the 727 must not have had the harmonic balancer on the bottom of the crankshaft. The 727 propshaft has a longer spline so will accept the high rake Mercury props. I also have a CCC gearcase with that propshaft (not the one pictured). The skegs are different. The gear lube filler holes are located differently. Notice the extra material as the GC meets the cavitation plate area. It also has a slightly different
shape in that area. I did not get into the unit very far, but did remove the waterpump housing.
Jim Nerstrum explained to Greg about how the gears worked in these units. I can't remember the details. I believe there were three gear ratios that were changed by replacing just the top two gears. Think the rations were 17:19, 18:19 and 19:19 and that they settled on the 18:19 ratio. Jim N will recall.
I did mount this unit on my Johnson RS midsection (took the stud set out and clearanced the mid just a bit at the water pump) but never ran it. Hi Rodger hope you are keeping well I am sure the 2.5 OMC crossflow ccc gear ratios we ran in Europe were 15/17 but the failure rate was high we also ran 16/18 ratio they thought they may last longer but they still failed often I think in 1978 nearly half the races I ran ended in gearcase failure.

[RogerH]

Hi Rodger hope you are keeping well I am sure the 2.5 OMC crossflow ccc gear ratios we ran in Europe were 15/17 but the failure rate was high we also ran 16/18 ratio they thought they may last longer but they still failed often I think in 1978 nearly half the races I ran ended in gearcase failure.

Good to hear from you Steve. Missed you att Tavares in November - it was well attended by the OFF gang. Yes, I also heard about the frequent
gearcase failures and think I have a picture of them changing one at a race. The whole 727 happening was cloaked in such mystery that I have no wonder there is so much "fake news" about this motor. Anxious to meet you some day. I do remember that the 727 gearcase had the ratio that
Jim Nerstrum said was the best. And it only had two gears at the top, so I have no idea how they made the gear ratio change by replacing just the
two top gears. It had something to do with the "bottom end" gears/mechanism. Will likely take Jim Nerstrum to explain it.