who is manny jr?

[fbref5269]

hi all,

tax season is almost over and then i can start having fun again. i picked up a quincy fuel tank the other day that has been modified to rest on a cavitation plate and clamp onto a stick tower. it's painted cloud white and has MANNY JR in red letters on the back. any idea who manny jr is/was. i've ben told it may have been used on a c service.

5 days and counting.

frank

[ferv888ipba]

Probably the former mayor of Bakersfield, Ca. Manuel Canarkis(sp)

Ray

[Gene East]

My thoughts too Ray, but I don't remember him being a Quincy customer. But then we didn't work on Speedi-twins.

Of course the tanks were generic and this tank could have been purchased second hand.

I know one thing, Manuel Carnakis was not a fan of Mercury C-Service engines!

[Ron Hill]

When Manuel was racing, he went by Manuel J. Carnakis, as I recall. His son, John, raced a Marshal Grant, cross flow Quincy C. I don't ever recall John, or Johnny, being called Manny Jr.

But John's Qunicy did have a "Stick" tower.....maybe Marshall called John Manny Jr. and I never knew it. But, my dad rebuild John's motor once, and it seems I would have seen Manny Jr. on the motor when it was in my dad's shop....


Seems Bill Boyes should shed some light here...as John and Bill still see each other now and then!

[bill boyes]

I will call John and ask him. He lives in Bear Valley Calif. He did have a Grant Merc C that Marshall built for him. Don't know if Marshall built it all or Quincy did a lot of the work and Marshall put it together.

[fbref5269]

hi all,

from what you have all said manny was not a fan of mercury c service engines. paul christner said the tank may have been a little larry latta humor and ribbing. paul remembers that larry named all his engines and ran a mercury c service. it may have been larry naming his mercury c service 'manny jr' to run aganist manny. i'm also posting a picture of the tank.

bill call john to see if there is more to this story. these kinds of stories that make this website so important to maintain so we can hear these little stories of those days of yesteryear. it's the internet version of the 'wayback machine' with mr peabody and sherman, now that's classic tv.

frank

[Ron Hill]

Manuel J. Carnakis was OLD SCHOOL when I was a kid. In 1950's til???, Manny chartered airplanes and flew them filled with Bakersfield friends who wanted to go to the Indy 500. He got my family tickets for the 500, in '52.

Manuel was very classy, he was Mayor of Bakersfield. He build Ming Lake, in Bakersfield, where we race today, in the 1960's. Manny controlled Lake Ming until his death. He was a passed Alky (PRO) VP. His equipment was always first class, polished and painted bright yellow and black...He didn't dislike Mercury Outboards, he just didn't like them in his class.

His "C" Service motor is owned by Howard Anderson. Dave Bryan and I tried to buy it this year.

I'm guessing that tank is Larry Latts's idea of humor. Though I knew Larry, I never knew him well. Dean Wilson, Sr. always spoke highly of Larry and Dean had quite a sense of humor... I don't recall seeing that tank in Region 12..but I do recall we only had John Carnakis's powerhead at my dad's shop...



Bill Boyes posted a picture of John C Runabout...

Johnny Carnakis's C Started life as a Quincy Cross Flow Merc, and Marshall did his magic...First motor my dad ever saw that had Marine Tex added to pad the case...My dad loved tight cases, and thought that Marshall Grant was "REALLY on top of things" with that Marine Tex....(Quincy Cross Flows had stuffers in the intake side, Marshall had stuff the in takes more).


http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...arnakis&page=3 (http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7277&highlight=John+Carnakis&page=3) C-33 on page 4, John Carnakis, no fuel tank...Merc 30-55-H Midsection...

[Mike Schmidt]

Some how Jerry Waldman comes to mind with this tank. The lettering on his motors and boats look like the same sign painters work. Larry was a great guy, (I miss him....) but I don't see Larry doing something like this. He would have much rather spent the time and $$ on going faster.

???????

Michael D-1

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Some how Jerry Waldman comes to mind with this tank. The lettering on his motors and boats look like the same sign painters work. Larry was a great guy, (I miss him....) but I don't see Larry doing something like this. He would have much rather spent the time and $$ on going faster.

???????

Michael D-1

Mike,
You are definitely on to something as the font & color certainly looks a lot like what Jerry's boats had. & you know that he always wanted to rub it in once Mercs were allowed in C Service.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

We need to get Wayne Baldwin involved in this discussion. I seem to remember he posted some correspondence from Stan Leavendusky Sr., and others regards the controversy at the time about allowing the 30cui Mercs and the Speeditwins in the same class. Pete Hellsten was also involved I think. I also remember Waldman was really agitating this situation, and based on the previous posts he may have very well had a connection with this item.

[bill boyes]

I spoke with John Carnakis on this subject. He does not recall this fuel tank.
Manual did like to kid around and rib other racers. This could be a pay back from Waldmen.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

It would solve the mystery probably if someone like Wayne had a picture of Waldman's C Service rig from the rear so as to provide a view. As previously mentioned I know he (Waldman) did some agitating about the Speeditwin C Service guys and the two motors being allowed to run together.

At a DePue Nationals in the late 60's/early 70's, "Dirty Ernie" LaRose had a 30CI Merc that Bill Seebold Sr. built for him. I have already told the story about how he was disqualified when winning his elimination heat by the inspector at the time, Henry Wagner, because his prop nut was too long by a 1/4 inch or some such. Ernie hit his thumb with a hammer and was unable to grip the throttle, and asked me if I would drive it for him. The wrong sparkplugs were put in it for the Runabout race, and immediately upon cranking, the top of the pistons hit the side electrodes and mashed them in contact with the center electrode, effectively shorting them all out and keeping the engine from starting. I did drive it in the Hydro race also, and got second to Butch Leavendusky, who had a really fast Speeditwin and a Marchetti hydro built specially for C Service that I don't think ever lost a race, except for engine failure. The controversy about the Merc's in C Service raged on for several more years, but I am not aware of all the ins and outs of the discussions that took place. I think Chris Hellsten had a post on HR some months ago regards this, as Pete ran Merc's in C Service also. I don't remember a 4 cyl Merc that Pete ever ran, although it is certainly possible. The engine I remember is a two cylinder that I think Kristi (Hellsten at the time, now Ellison) won a Nationals with.

This could be put to rest very easily if Wayne or someone else close to Waldman had some pictures of his C Service Merc, but I do agree with others that the colors and lettering style look like Waldman used to have on all his equipment.

[Original Looper 1]

When Frank Novotny asked me about the Manny Jr. fuel tank being discussed here, I told him that my memory recalled Larry Latta having possession of it. I also remember Larry telling me why it had Manny Jr. written on it. It was an ongoing joke between Larry with the Mercury C Service and I presume the Johnson or Evinrude C Service motors that Manny Sr. and others raced. At the time, I didn't inquire further as to the origin of the tank and the writing.

However, I just spoke with Larry's widow, Francis Latta, regarding this issue and she said that Larry never painted that fuel tank as far as she recalls, but he did own it. She also said she doesn't remember where the fuel tank came from.

Until better information or a photo surfaces, I think that Jerry Waldman had the tank made, and it very well could have been at Quincy Welding. The cloud white color was Jerry's trademark racing color on his engine drive housings for his fleet, both Mercurys and later the Quincy Loopers. Please don't quote me the exceptions to the rule as there may be some.

Larry and Bill Ripkema did purchase a major quantity of Waldman's estate, which included many racing engines and parts. I agree with Mike Schmidt that the lettering in the Jr has considerable traits like Waldman's lettering and names on his hydros. Go look at the Jerry Waldman page under Racing Legends at www.QuincyLooperRacing.us as we have photos of many of his boats there.

I'm not ready to concede that both the tank and the lettering were conceived per Jerry's direction, but a good photo of that tank on one of Jerry's Mercury C Service engines would most definitely establish more of an answer but not necessarily an absolute conclusion.

Wayne, your turn.........


thanks,

Paul A Christner

[Ron Hill]

Manuel's number was c-43 and John's was C-33...Did you see they were parked next to Waldman in the Waldman pictures...???

You know who might know would be Bobby Herring...

[Master Oil Racing Team]

....and my boat racing memory is cold right now. I have to warm it up, but I'm having a hard time with the Waldman/C service stuff. I don't recall Mercs running in C service and all the controversies until after Waldman was dead.:confused: And....I don't remember anything about Jerry running C service. I can remember a letter to the editor in Roostertail Jerry wrote throwing a few barbs at something Bud Cowdery had written previously regarding C Service. I just seem to remember that Jerry thought C Service motors were too old and slow to run in alky. I may be totally off base here with what I recall.

But I do agree with Mike and John that the colors and writing do look like something that could have come from Waldman. But, while I didn't know Larry as well as a lot of people, what I did know about him doesn't seem to fit with him painting a "bye bye" sign to Manuel Carnakis on the back of his tank. Let's all do some more thinking and digging to see if we can find the answer to Frank's question. I'm curious about that too. BTW---where's the green fit in?

ADD: Frank...can you post some more angles? I am not familar at all with Mercs, OMC and their tower housings as far as how tanks would bolt on. Maybe some different angles could add additional clues.... or maybe even cloud the issue more.

[fbref5269]

wayne,

i'll get more pictures posted as soon as i get the camera back, that should be later today. it would be great if, after the brain thaws out you find a picture of jerry's c service. after jerry;s passing jane smith owned his c service for a while. i ran against her in hinton one year. that c serv merc was fast!

frank

[Dave_E71]

I'm pretty sure we had a 4 cyl. merc C Service that Gary drove. I also think that Pop got it from Waldman. Maybe Gary knows more details.

Dave

[fbref5269]

hi all,

here are a few more i took before. as for the 'green' question, i'll get more closeup shots of the top and sides, there is green merc primer you can see at places that are worn a little.

frank

[Master Oil Racing Team]

...now we know a little more. I'll concede I remember nothing of the Jerry Waldman C Service activities. But, Frank,....I'm curious about what looks like several etchings on the tank. One one the left and a couple or so on the right. Kind of looks like the metal credit card imprinter stamps. In fact, the one on the upper right hand corner looks a lot like an etching I have of Ernest Hemmingways two story house at Key West.:eek::rolleyes::D Joe said today we need to ask Dick Hoppenwrath or Dr. Phil Wagner.:cool: If Jerry had such a tank, they should remember.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

The green color might be a primer coat that was put on the tank prior to painting with the white color. I seem to remember seeing that color used as a primer coat on aircraft parts, tubing, etc., when the airplane might be used around chemicals that were corrosive such as agricultural dusting and spraying. Maybe "zinc chromate" primer?? Been a long time since I have been around aircraft, but that rings a bell. Methonal could certainly be considered corrosive so maybe this was a primer put on before final paint to keep the white paint on.

Ralph Donald sees and talks with Phil Wager quite frequently. I will contact him and have him ask Phil about this tank.

Sure is great so many important things are coming up to keep "old farts" minds busy. Maybe we should also comtemplate what type of filler cap was used??

[fbref5269]

bill,

old farts rule! we must keep our minds active else we will be in front of the tv all day watching maury and jerry springer:) love those dna tests on maury. of course i've only been told about those tests.

that would be great if phil could be asked about the tank. this is one of the few hobbies that we are able to track down history of items and even speek to people who have seen them in action.

keep up the good work all you baby boomers and pre baby boomers out there.

frank

[fbref5269]

wayne,

the etchings on the top of the tank is residue from duct tape. it does look like a credit card impression.

frank

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I had contacted Ralph Donald about this thread, and he sees Phil Wagner, who went racing with Waldman quite a lot, often. They were together yesterday and Ralph discussed this tank and associated info about it with Phil. Unfortunately, Phil has no knowledge of the tank or what it was used on. Hopefully someone will pop out of the woodwork with some answers someday.