Swift Big D home [Archive] - Boat Racing Facts Forums

curbman

08-11-2009, 06:39 AM

I purchased my Swift Big D 34 years ago and raced it in the late 70's and early 80's. The boat has been sitting under a friends cabin at Lake of the Woods Ontario for 26 years. I picked it up and the boat is now home in Alberta and will be rebuilt. More to come as I get a chance to finish my shop first and start on the boat so it may be a while. The frame work is like new under the decks the boat was kept dry and out of the sun so this rebuild will be fun. Anyone with pics of the original setup on this boat please send me pictures I have some but no close ups. Thanks Richard

arcticracer

10-21-2009, 09:00 PM

You have your work cut out for you. Thank you for saving it though! Good luck and have fun.

curbman

10-21-2009, 09:22 PM

You have your work cut out for you. Thank you for saving it though! Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for thinking about the work part of this, I will post pics as I find time to work on this and I will. I am also putting an engine together for this boat.

curbman

08-31-2011, 07:28 PM

So on with the project, I have purchased the original Sitka spruce, Okoume plywood marine grade. Now I am hoping to get some input on glue? A source for brass ring nails? and any other good information I can muster before I start. The boat is down to frames and all other parts will be made new. This Swift model number is UHD-112 the boat had Aluminum air traps and the question I have, is this a true Swift original or an addition someone added? The 52-F is what I am going to restore this boat to. I will enjoy rebuilding this boat but I need the most information I can get from everyone. I have had a good exchange with David Liebetreu who has restored one great Big Dee. This boat will be original inside and out when it is finished. Thanks ahead of time to those with input.

Ron Hill

08-31-2011, 08:30 PM

I never saw a Big Dee with full length air traps. Are those original??

curbman

08-31-2011, 08:43 PM

I never saw a Big Dee with full length air traps. Are those original??

I don't know for sure but look at this and judge for yourself. This is how they were attached and they were also molded to the inside of the sponson. I didn't get any pics of how the were attached to the sponson sorry. I am hoping someone will get in on this so I can get on with new wood or put the aluminum air traps back on. What do you think?

Yellowjacket

09-01-2011, 07:24 AM

With the condition of your framing, you are probably going to need to use epoxy if the joint is broken loose.

I'm working on refreshing an older boat and it was originally guled with resorcinol . Resorcinol glues are great glues, but they need tight fits, high clamping forces, and are brittle. On my boat some of the joints in the framing had popped and the parts were loose. At the joints that were loose, the wood in the joint area had deteriorated and it wasn't a good idea to reglue it without grinding away the gray deteriorated wood. That left me with a gap of about 1/16 of an inch and when you grind away the bad wood. Those much kind of gaps are too large for resoricional.

Fortunately, gaps like that are perfect for epoxy. In fact, you don't want to squeeze out all the epoxy or the joint won't be strong, so a thickened epoxy is what I'm using in all of those joints.

To restore the joint, first grind out the bad wood, and then pre-treat with a coat of thin laminating epoxy (I'm using Raka, their laminating epoxy is very thin, 600cp and it will soak well into the wood). After that has soaked in, I bond the joint. For close joints, I'm using some wood flour to thicken it to a mayonaise consistency. For wider joints, bigger than 1/16 of an inch I thicken it to the consistency of peanut butter. If the gap is bigger than 1/8 of an inch I put in a piece of wood, and bond it in with the mayo consistency stuff. Most of the time the joints are just jigged, and if they need to be clamped, I only use light clampling pressure. So far I've had good results with the stuff I'm doing.

As for ring shank nails, I looked high and low and the best price I found for 15 gage nails was at Jamestown distributors ($17 for 800 3/4 inch long nails), or West Marine (1/2 inch long $5.79 for a pack of 100). I needed the 1/2 inch long ones and mine just got here today...

Good luck restoring a neat old boat.

Bill Van Steenwyk

09-01-2011, 02:32 PM

I have 5lbs of 3/4" silicon bronze ring shank nails. These are going anywhere from 17 to 18 US dollars per pound. Will take 12 dollars US per pound plus shipping. You can e-mail me at randbenter@eartthlink.net or PM thru BRF if interested.

Ron Hill

09-01-2011, 04:30 PM

I don't know for sure but look at this and judge for yourself. This is how they were attached and they were also molded to the inside of the sponson. I didn't get any pics of how the were attached to the sponson sorry. I am hoping someone will get in on this so I can get on with new wood or put the aluminum air traps back on. What do you think?

I wish someone else would chime in, but I doubt that Swift ever bolted air traps on like this.

curbman

09-01-2011, 08:27 PM

I wish someone else would chime in, but I doubt that Swift ever bolted air traps on like this.

I think your right, they sure worked good with the 40H on the boat back in 77 I think with a 58A power head it will be different.

zul8tr

09-02-2011, 05:02 AM

curbman

09-02-2011, 07:47 AM

Thanks great stuff zul8tr

Ron Hill

09-02-2011, 12:48 PM

You have your hands full in this restoration. Epoxy is the only way to go with the gluing because it is great for perfect and not so perfect joints that need a filler. I use fumated silica (Cabosil) for a thichner as it provides a good structural strong filler. Add to suit.

From what I recall the traps on these Swifts were wood and screwed into the chin for easy replacement to different lenghts. I think the aluminum was not original.

Here is a shot of a Big Bee in Feb 1958 issue of Boat Sport - wood traps are evident at least on this model.

http://www.boatsport.org/BSC/c65.jpg

Here is page 37 from the same issue with an add for the Big Dee looks like stepped trap design

http://www.boatsport.org/BSV65/p37.jpg

Post pics of your progress

My brother had a C-D-F- X Swift from 1955-57, after he got out of the Army. He bought a Big Bee Swift that I wrecked pretty wellin A Alky Hydro, and Jimbo bought that from us. Ron Loomis had an Atomic A, but I never really saw a Big Dee up close.

Burt Ross ran an all natural Big Dee at Lone Beach at the '59 Provisional, but I only saw it run, never got down to see it up close...

The Atomic A, Big Bee and Bid Dee always seems to be SO COOL looking.... Thanks for posting the BoatSport page!

curbman

09-11-2011, 06:08 PM

I started getting the frames out and cleaning them up. I thought some of us would like to see the inside up close. The Okoume plywood is marked HOLLAND if I find a better image of the stamping I will post it.

curbman

09-11-2011, 08:05 PM

The second frame from the back forward.

zul8tr

10-02-2011, 03:41 AM

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/images/Roar-n-Soar-2010/DSC_0159.JPG

This was at the Lakeland Fla Fantasy of Flight Nov 2010 Vintage meet

Ron Hill

10-02-2011, 10:33 AM

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/images/Roar-n-Soar-2010/DSC_0159.JPG

This was at the Lakeland Fla Fantasy of Flight Nov 2010 Vintage meet

One thing I noticed on this "OLD" Big Dee were straight cockpit combings. The Orange one at Lakeland has the cockpit combing as I remembered them from ads.

Who owns the Orange Big Dee???

curbman

10-02-2011, 11:57 AM

the Lakeland Swift is one great boat that David Liebetreu rebuilt and the Swift Big Dee I have will also be restored with this same cockpit combing.

One thing I noticed on this "OLD" Big Dee were straight cockpit combings. The Orange one at Lakeland has the cockpit combing as I remembered them from ads.

Who owns the Orange Big Dee???

Ron Hill

10-02-2011, 12:37 PM

Those combing side pieces do look like they were glued the the plywood.

Did the Big Dee have the same "S" Curve bottom as the old C-D-F-X Swift Hydro?

curbman

10-02-2011, 03:25 PM

No the Big Dee has a flat sloped bottom, I will post some pics as it goes back together but I get what your saying sort of like the Jupiter hydro bottom is what your thinking.

Those combing side pieces do look like they were glued the the plywood.

Did the Big Dee have the same "S" Curve bottom as the old C-D-F-X Swift Hydro?

Ron Hill

10-02-2011, 04:10 PM

The Jupiter, Entrop and Hedlund all had the "S" up front between the spoons.

My brother's C-D-F-X had a 3/8 "S" between the back of the sponsons and the after plane. The concept, as Joe Swift told me, was to keep the boat from getting airborne. Might have worked at slow speeds...

You can see, that the "PLAN" was for the driver to ride near the steering wheel and "PROP RIDE"...as full length traps weren't invented yet..

curbman

10-27-2011, 09:13 PM

So a big thanks goes out to Bill Van Steenwyk for sourcing me Brass ring nails I needed. He was the first to step up to the plate. A very big thanks to David Liebetreu for sourcing me the original steering wheel, front handle and all the original decals. This Swift Big Dee will be looking like the day it was shipped to it's original buyer/racer. More to come as time allows.

MonsterNine

10-28-2011, 12:03 PM

That's a cool front handle. Is it an original or is it a repro? Are they still being made, and if so, by who? I gotsta get me some!!! (if it's not an original) :D

russhill

10-28-2011, 02:19 PM

In response about the air traps---they were definitely wood and I don't think they were screwed in like suggested above for adjusting length. They came with air traps--wood one size fit all.

I don't think the whole second generation (Atomic A, Big Bee and Big Dee) Swifts were anywhere near as popular as the first generation (A-B and C-D-F-X). I think the only real differences were the cowlings.

I got to know Joe (Swift) pretty well in later years in our Offshore years. He wasn't really a boat builder and his real pride was how many he had produced in the early Stock Outboard days. He was pretty much out of the boat building biz by the time he put out the second generation.

A great guy and a great era.

DeanFHobart

10-28-2011, 02:59 PM

Russ,

Do you know how many racing boats Swift made???

russhill

10-28-2011, 03:39 PM

No, sorry, I don't have any firm idea. I'll make a guess and maybe somebody can agree or supply a better guess. Based on APBA registrations,etc., I'd say 2,000 ABs, 1,000 CDFXs and maybe 200 each of the three second generation boats.

Nice thing about being old is I can make up numbers and anybody who could refute them is dead.

russhill

10-28-2011, 04:02 PM

Dean, Just looked up Swift in Peter Hunn's "Golden Age of the Racing Outboard" and he said Swift had built 8-9,000 boats. This would include other boats than just the above mentioned Stock Outboard hydros.

curbman

10-28-2011, 04:03 PM

That's a cool front handle. Is it an original or is it a repro? Are they still being made, and if so, by who? I gotsta get me some!!! (if it's not an original) :D

The handle is an original bow handle that were used on the Swift Big Dee. Maybe a hardware pro will chime in and reveal a source for the handle in the picture or something close to it. I agree it is a very nice handle.

DeanFHobart

10-29-2011, 08:48 AM

zul8tr

06-24-2014, 07:13 AM

So how is the Swift restoration going? Any pics to update the progress?

smittythewelder

06-24-2014, 08:43 AM

Swifts were on the way out, at least in Reg. 10, when I was a novice in '65, but I remember seeing a Big D on the beach at Long Lake, light blue IIRC, with a Mk75 on the back and six megaphones. The top pipe pointed straight back, but from #2 to #6 each pipe had to angle down more, until bottom pipe looked like it would almost drag in the water. Good days, wish I had a photo.

curbman

06-25-2014, 03:01 PM

So how is the Swift restoration going? Any pics to update the progress?

Hello to everyone, sure wish I had more time but that is my problem. The frames for the Swift Big Dee are cleaned up and ready to go. I have most of the material ready to go.
Original hardware in great shape over $1500.00 in wood alone. The boat will go back together I am working on finding more parts for my Mark 75H project at the same time.

Swift Big Dee on the bottom of the picture