Top Speed

[SEAHORSE50]

HELLO!!!
This is my first boat and now that I have driven it for a while it"s gotten a bit too ""slow"" for me.The boat is made out of fiberglass and is 13 feet in lenght(3.95 meters) and about 920 lbs (415 kilograms) in weight with engine fully fueled and one driver.The whole boat was my fathers and is 30 years old but has about 200 working hours.It was in a garage for 15 years and the engine was conservated.I took it out last summer and it was running like it was new.The engine is Johnson 1975 Sea Horse 50 Long shaft 680cc or 42 cubic inches, 50 HP at (5500-6000 rpm).
First it had an aluminum 12-1/4" X 15" OMC prop and it was overreving about 6200 rpm and was hiting a top of 27 knots or 31 mph.
Then I bought an OMC SST 11-3/4" X 17" new prop and the revs vere around 6000 rpm an my top speed was 31.5 knots or 36.5 mph.
Now I am wondering could I gain more speed with a 11-1/4" X 19" SST prop without overstresing the engine or maybe a 11-1/4" X 21" SST prop?With a 21 pitch prop the bout should hit about 36 knots or 42 mph according to calculations but what would happen to the engine??
I was thinking of switching to a chopper or cleaver type prop!
Can anyone tell me what diameter prop should it be according to my engine and where can I get one in San Pedro??Of course it must be a rehubed prop,or not if its not possible ill then have to make my own modifications.
Is there a prop manufacturer that makes racing props for smaller Johnson otboards,please tell me the name or net adress,or e-mail???
If I had a 10 1/2" X 22" Cleaver prop(over the hub prop) how much speed could I gain with the same engine????When I calculate I get around 40 knots.

In the engines manual it says to use 87 octane fuel but that was 30 years ago,I say that because oils that I put in the mixture today are far much better quality then 30 years ago.So what would happen if I were to run it on 91 octane fuel,that fuel burns cleaner with less carbon stickings but at higher temperatures???And the fuel alone today is cleaner and better generally.
With 91 octane fuel how much extra horsepower would the engine have??

Generally what do you think,what would be the max speed that I could squeeze out of this engine and boat configuration with a proper prop and 91 octane fuel?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
A thing for you to have in mind,I"m a student and I live in Croatia on the Mediteranian sea and I cant do wonders over here.
Thanks!

[Bear 45/70]

HELLO!!!
This is my first boat and now that I have driven it for a while it"s gotten a bit too ""slow"" for me.The boat is made out of fiberglass and is 13 feet in lenght(3.95 meters) and about 920 lbs (415 kilograms) in weight with engine fully fueled and one driver.The whole boat was my fathers and is 30 years old but has about 200 working hours.It was in a garage for 15 years and the engine was conservated.I took it out last summer and it was running like it was new.The engine is Johnson 1975 Sea Horse 50 Long shaft 680cc or 42 cubic inches, 50 HP at (5500-6000 rpm).
First it had an aluminum 12-1/4" X 15" OMC prop and it was overreving about 6200 rpm and was hiting a top of 27 knots or 31 mph.
Then I bought an OMC SST 11-3/4" X 17" new prop and the revs vere around 6000 rpm an my top speed was 31.5 knots or 36.5 mph.
Now I am wondering could I gain more speed with a 11-1/4" X 19" SST prop without overstresing the engine or maybe a 11-1/4" X 21" SST prop?With a 21 pitch prop the bout should hit about 36 knots or 42 mph according to calculations but what would happen to the engine??
I was thinking of switching to a chopper or cleaver type prop!
Can anyone tell me what diameter prop should it be according to my engine and where can I get one in San Pedro??Of course it must be a rehubed prop,or not if its not possible ill then have to make my own modifications.
Is there a prop manufacturer that makes racing props for smaller Johnson otboards,please tell me the name or net adress,or e-mail???
If I had a 10 1/2" X 22" Cleaver prop(over the hub prop) how much speed could I gain with the same engine????When I calculate I get around 40 knots.

In the engines manual it says to use 87 octane fuel but that was 30 years ago,I say that because oils that I put in the mixture today are far much better quality then 30 years ago.So what would happen if I were to run it on 91 octane fuel,that fuel burns cleaner with less carbon stickings but at higher temperatures???And the fuel alone today is cleaner and better generally.
With 91 octane fuel how much extra horsepower would the engine have??

Generally what do you think,what would be the max speed that I could squeeze out of this engine and boat configuration with a proper prop and 91 octane fuel?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
A thing for you to have in mind,I"m a student and I live in Croatia on the Mediteranian sea and I cant do wonders over here.
Thanks!

If stepping up to a 17" pitch didn't drop the rpms at least 400 rpms. You need more prop pitch yet. Try a 19 but you may need a 21.

Now top speed is not just a function of what prop you install, but horsepower to weight ratio and hull type and you are a bit short on hp and the hull is rather dated to be going much faster than 35 knots, if that much. The extra octane will not help unless you pull the head and cut it to up compression. Otherwise all the extra octane will do is make you coolling system work a little harder to take the extra heat away.

Short cure for faster is a bigger motor and a newer hull.

[Mark75H]

Otherwise all the extra octane will do is make you coolling system work a little harder to take the extra heat away.

BTU's would mean a difference in heat value, octane number does not (different octane numbered fuels usually contain the same BTUs).

I agree, fuel change alone will not change performance.

Along with changing props also try changing the height of the motor. It sounds as though you may be pretty close to the best performance your boat will give and Bear's main advice may be the best: bigger motor, smaller boat ;) .

[JohnsonM50]

When you calculate speed based on pitch and rpm its all accurate untill you consider resistance and slippage, the 2 variables that make fuzz out of math. You can up the pitch, raise the rpms, jack and / or trim the motor and not get much. but when you get somthing document it, which means dont do many changes at once so you know what works. You might get 10 mph without a new rig if you persist. Look at your bottom, most racers dimple the aft 20 - 30% of the bottom to break surface tension.

[Mark75H]

most racers dimple the aft 20 - 30% of the bottom to break surface tension.

I have never seen a dimpled bottom on any race boat on the east coast. Must be a west coast thing

Dimples are for golf balls, not race boats

[JohnsonM50]

oops, wrong word for it but taking the shine off is what I meant, seen it on most boats at Lambertville.

[Mark75H]

I got straightened out on this a couple weeks ago ... 400 grit is the prefered smoothness by the top record setter, Bob Wartinger

[David Weaver]

There are hydro's out there with dimpled bottoms. I know of one boat that won 5+ national championships with rear 20% (or so) of the bottom "dimpled".

[Fast Fred]

dimpels make a vary big dif' on a golf ball, ( golf sucks, waist O time) any who,
to stablize it in flite, with out them it will not fly as far.:eek: :cool:

[Mark75H]

I know a guy who is an expert on golf ball technology and a boat racer, too. He tells us that the speeds involved with golf ball dimples and race boats are much different and boats are way too slow for dimpling to be of benefit.

I'm sure you are thinking whoa! golf balls aren't going that fast .... well the ball isn't, but the surface is ... because the ball is rotating. Combining the flight speed and rotational speed the surface of a golf ball is super sonic.

The race boat with the dimpled bottom is winning dispite being dimpled, not because.

[shenders]

I don’t know about this dimple stuff David... I did put dimples on a bottom of one of our hydro's
one time by accident.. I resurfaced the last 36’’ and sprayed the bottom with a good varnish..
After cleaning the gun I turn to look at my great new bottom just to see all these damn little holes
forming up.. To say the least I was ticked.. I let it all dry and was going to re-do it but we had a
race coming up so I just left it alone.. That boat ran better than ever and seemed to brake lose on
acceleration better.. Never did fix it.
Stan

[David Weaver]

Sam,

You are probably right. It may not add to top speed. But it seems that it could improve acceleration by "freeing-up" the back end a little. And it may improve handling.

Besides Region 4's most adventurous family considered this. The Augustine clan considered making a hydro with a completely dimpled-bottom, something similar to an air-hockey table. But they we worried that when it got to the turn that it would continue go straight down the course with boat in a side-ways position.:confused:

The dimpling of the golf ball is more involved than just trying to creat maximum speed. It is always nice when the ball travels in the intended direction or with the intended "action" . The knuckle-ball does work to great effect in golf. The dimpling also helps to stop the ball on the green by generating the correct spin.

Golf is a waste of time, but I cannot waste all my time boat racing!!

[Jeff Akers]

Beeing a watersports kinda guy I've done some Wakeboarding/ wakeskating and noticed a few years ago some wakeboard manufactures trying dimples of differant shapes and sizes. I personally couldnt tell the diferance from one with or without but I'm no expert. It seems that industry has gone away from dimpleing though. Here's a little info I found on a wakeboard site.

Dimples, also referred to as phasers, speed bumps, etc., are designed to break up laminar flow, or downward suction on the board from the water's surface. If you think of a dinner plate being set on a wet table, and the suction that is created, the principle is the same. The dimples break up the suction and, in theory, accelerate the board. In reality this does very little to effect performance positively or negatively. It is technology that was borrowed from the surfing industry, which largely dropped the concept about 20 years ago.


Yea we are talking about higher speeds with boats but same basic Idea right?

[David Weaver]

Would this concept be similar to running on glass smooth water? Years ago we used to teast at Lake Alfred on the pretty water that had not a ripple on it. You could not get a 250 or 350 hydro to run for $^#t. The boat would just suck down to the surface of the water. This year I tested a 250 runabout on glass smooth water. Same thing, the boat would not release from the surface tension. Would the dimpling help break free of the surface tension by allowing air to pass under the back of the boat in a manner that creates some turbulence?

[denny henderson]

Cuz,
Was that the same boat that had the paint thinner can fuel tank?

[Jeff Akers]

Would this concept be similar to running on glass smooth water? Years ago we used to teast at Lake Alfred on the pretty water that had not a ripple on it. You could not get a 250 or 350 hydro to run for $^#t. The boat would just suck down to the surface of the water. This year I tested a 250 runabout on glass smooth water. Same thing, the boat would not release from the surface tension. Would the dimpling help break free of the surface tension by allowing air to pass under the back of the boat in a manner that creates some turbulence?

It would make sence that it would work on "like glass" water just to the point of geting it unstuck and then have little or no efect in "normal racing conditions" It may allso efect one type of boat/class and or setup more than another?

Entrop got around it by just flying the hole boat "propriding":D

[Sunburnt]

In the early 60's McCulloch built a factory pleasure hydro based on the fantasy hull, but they added dimples. I'm sure the result was neglegable or even measurable but at least they made the attempt. They persued all options to get the boat to go 50 with a single 75.

here is the link to pictures from a previous thread.
http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1787



Jeff

[JohnsonM50]

I heard it called that by a jersey skiff guy but on kneeldowns Ive only seen sanding. On fibreglass / gelcoat Ive heard of glass beading for the effect. Ive not played golf yet but as for flight I saw courtesy of History channel where an experimental aircraft was set up with pores and an active vacuum system to change the resistance for speed,

[Mark75H]

In the early 60's McCulloch built a factory pleasure hydro based on the fantasy hull, but they added dimples. I'm not 100% certain that was done by the factory

[59powercat1400]

I am. I have a guy in Minneapolis that was at hydrocraft when these were being tested. he told me about the dimples long before I had this boat. he got to test these boats and was sent out to see if they could break em. the only problem they had was they bent the tubes on the first few lifts. they made them out of thicker wall tubing and it cured the problem. dick

[Mark75H]

Thanks, Dick .... that's the kind of thing that fills in the blanks and makes things more certain

I stand corrected ;)

[JohnsonM50]

1 thing I forgot to mention, I have a 50hp 1972 evinrude and it turns out that with minimal altering a stainless steel prop from a 1977 115hp fit. Since this is an aluminum Macenzie Cherokee 15ft boat it does 43mph average with strong acceleratoin. Take a look at weight.